puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Guys, if you have no job and no money, the last thing you should be doing is spraying/rollering your car with $50 worth of flat black Rustoleum.

If you don't have any money, why do you think spending any money on a crappy "paint job" in your garage with a rattlecan is a solution? Time and time again it's a "temporary" solution until the pile ends up being parted in the classifieds because the person didn't have the priorities/foresight to realize that adding that junk crap from Vatozone just added a grand to the "real" paint job that will never happen.

I see this time and time again; cars that are beat that could probably use any number of mechanical things to keep them on the road, yet the owners decide to flat black it because that's the #1 priority. I think 80% of the threads I read on this body forum are about cars being spraybombed in the garage/backyard/anywhere but a proper booth. 15% are Maacos, and I'd say maybe, maybe 5% are done at real body shops. It's disheartening to see thirdgen after thirdgen suffer these inhumanities (PS flat/satin/semi-gloss black looks like utter primered crap). It just seems like every single "painting my car" thread is so predictable. Sentence one is always "I have no money" or "It's an ultra budget paint job" followed by sentence two, "I bought flat black garbage at Autozone" followed by the "It's only temporary until I can afford a real paint job" encore.

Guys, word to the wise. If you don't have the funds for a proper paint job, don't do yourself and the car the disservice of a roller tractor paint job. You create more work for yourself later (should the car survive) and you spend more money now, even if it's only $50. That's $50 that could be better spent on something mechanical to keep the car on the road, or $50 that could be better spent elsewhere. It's about priorities--if you are unemployed and poor, you really have no business spending the little you have on something purely cosmetic, especially when the results will be so poor anyway. You'll be much better off not ratting out the car and keeping the money in your pocket. Beat original paint looks 1000x better than anything sold in a rattlecan and layered over Joe Schmoe backyard bodywork.

Let's start seeing some decent builds here once in a while for a change. No other board in any auto camp is full of flat black rattlecans. Why us? We deserve our stereotype, sadly.

jaysfs

iTrader: (1)

Thank you very much! i feel the same way.im a bodytech /painter and painted my car in june .it looks like glass.i spennt months prepping the body for paint in my free time. priming it 3 times to make it straight as could be.rattle can jobs belong on fart can cars

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

+1

haps

iTrader: (4)

+2

cIaRmOaCrZo

+3

keeslinger31

I spraypainted the hood on my "fartcan" car because the clearcoat was gone and it was essentially flatblack anyway being black with no clear.
But i have plenty of money. And its not like other things couldn't use a proper fixing. But i don't really care. It runs and looks better now with flat black than nasty bubbling peeling clear...
This is the exact same scenario with people that have 500 dollar thirdgens and no money. 50 bucks isn't exactly a fortune. but 5000 for a proper paint job is
and if you have a sub 5000 dollar car, its not worth spending 5000 on paint or even 1000 really. This thread is stupid and is making fun of people you don't even know, SO Shove it and lock this pos thread

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

But putting an LT1 in it is worth it, right?

keeslinger31

I paid 1500$ for the donor vehicle a 1996 trans am was rearended
I made money for swapping an lt1 in my car ( thats just how i roll)
between selling the engine trans i had 600$
and the parts i sold off the donor car. (everything but the shell)
I made enough money to fund my swap (including performance parts in sig)
It can be done. You just have to do it yourself...

haps

iTrader: (4)

You could spend $5000 on a paint job, but don't need too. Overblown references to paint jobs don't let credibility to your argument. Do your homework and it can be done and done well for an economical cost, even if you can't handle a spray gun. The info is right in the very section.

TheEndofanEra

I agree, for the most part. Repainting a car that's not mechanically sound isn't wise - I should know, I'm guilty of that. But in my defense, I'm not doing some rattlecan job either, it's bc/cc with good clear.

Now, the presumption that a amazing paint job has to cost 5+ grand and come out of a proffesional shop just isn't true. As long as you follow the directions and are willing to put in the work, you'll be able to turn out something just as good - if not better - and out of a garage to boot.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

I dont know about better, but your right if you put in a little bit of money $4-600 (including tools) and the work in you can lay some base/clear thats lightyears better than any rattle car/rustolem/valspar crap; or find a buddy with the gear and spend $250 on paint. If you can't wait and save up for that you really shouldn't be playing with old cars for fun. I have seen all of the budget methods in person, and some of them look pretty good but anyone who knows even a little bit about paint can tell that 99.9% of them are budget jobs because they just dont look the same as real paint job (DIY or pro). Some one stage jobs on older muscle cars come out alright but thats car paint anyways and was factory so it's ok in my book.

I have told a couple people that if they plan it out with me, I'll loan them my compressor/seperator/lines/gun for a weekend, or even come help teach them how to spray - I hate seeing half *** paint because that ruins a car. Also I love to paint!

jaysfs

iTrader: (1)

I do this for a living.i have no more than 600 in materials.and my car would be the six thousand dollar paint job. if i had to pay someone.the effort and time some people put it into ther car to straighten it with prep work and put farm paint on it seems silly.bc/cc can be moderatly cheap. the clear coat i used on enterprise cars was 80 a gallon with hardener.and was really good! i use it on side jobs at home.shopline base matches better than most paint systems in shops and is very cheap. Maaco and farm paint may look good for 6 mo but then it will dull and you will buff it then get worse. then you regret sets in. I love these cars but some.people make it.embarrasing to own one. and thats sad

Chris89FBForm

Lets be real here, Most rattlecan paint jobs look like garbage this is true, But the old saying is, you get out what you put in. Paint is Paint is Paint. Sure higher end paints are going to be better quality and a more expensive paint job typically looks better. but what about the DIY aspect of builds?

Honestly what OP is saying is putting on what you can afford yourself is equal to fixing a problem on your car yourself, because you didn't pay 2-5k for the job it isn't worthy. Most people who get rattlecans or rollers do it because its an easier route to go, But I have seen people use the same paints and make it look amazing. It's all about the time investment. The cheaper the paint, the more time you have to spend on it to turn out awesome.

I personally would love to be able to take my bird to a paint booth and have it painted, but It's way to expensive for the quality work that is done. If you know what you're doing and want to spend the time to do it right yourself, more power to you. My aunt worked and owned body shops for 17 years and when I need advice she gives me the correct tips on the right way to do it.

87IROC350

Yeah I've been thinking of going the budget route and doing a roller job after seeing how good a lot of them turn out. As part of my prep work I'm going to spray on some of that orange peel texture like on the walls in your house. I figure it'll give it a unique custom look. Also you guys talked me into sticking with the high end paint form Home Depot (none of that cheap stuff for me).

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Guys, it isn't even about the money necessarily. I'm not saying you have to spend $5000 to get a good paint job. I've seen plenty respectable and quite nice jobs in the $1500 range if you do a lot of the prep yourself and use halfway decent materials.

It's more about putting in the time and dedication to learn how to do things properly, and using proper auto paint. Even the cheapest of cheap auto paint will look 10 times better than any rustoleum/rattlecan/roller/tractor paint. Yeah, it will cost more than $50, but the results will be better than what you get for $50, and that $50 could be saved towards proper materials.

blacksunshine'91

iTrader: (10)

That is the real issue here. It is not about how much money you throw at a product. Its about making the effort to do it properly. The vast majority of people in today's world simply don't want to put in the proper work. They want instant results without the effort. Patience is no longer valued. Any of us who have been wrenching on these cars for any amount of time will tell you that nothing is an overnight process. I had my car on stands for months rebuilding the suspension. I could have done it it less than a week, but I wanted to get the job done correctly and completely.

Mr. IROC-Z

iTrader: (1)

This speech needs to be one of the by laws of Thirdgen.org. Thank you for speaking up for all of us about this issue. Couldn't have said it better myself.

lmidden

alot of people here try to go the easy way about doing the work to these cars. ive only seen a couple people here willing to repair a rusty car when asked for advice on some rust spot on my car the most common answer was to get rid of the car. some people spraying paint in there backyard can make it glass smooth. it just the conditions it gets painted in. if you paint it in a backyard the temp for some paints cant be over 70 degrees otherwise it does look terrible.

NowhereFast

I agree 100% Puma. I knew a post like this from you was coming; I hang out on the historical board a lot.

I just don't even click on the threads anymore, because every time I see a flat/satin/semi gloss black thirdgen, I die a little inside.

Chris89FBForm

Yeah I live in WI, and I can tell you what. I am third owner of my thirdgen, and the first owner babied it, the second owner (my buddy who was deployed to Afg. sold it to me) he drove it in 2 WI winters and managed to put all the rust that was on it today, me I have yet to drive it in the winter and don't plan on it. the rust that was there was all surface and quickly treated and sanded.

For the guy that posted under me with the sarcastic comments, Grow up. If you actually read I said most rattlecan and roller jobs turn out like garbage because the "painters" do not do any prep work, nor do they do any finish work. It is all about the time and dedication you want to put in it.

rusty vango

its downright funny,we 3rd genners do love our rustoleum.and when somebody disses this sacred practice .we come out swingin!!!

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Maybe one day we will lose that white trash image and be taken seriously. I guess eventually the junk cars will be gone and the only ones that remain will be the ones that were taken care of.
FWIW - my car is in pieces right now getting a proper resto on the interior and exterior. I waited years to do it right. I disassembled as much as possible and sent it off for a proper paint job.
I couldn't see doing it any other way.

deadbird

Nice supremacy speech.

Unfortunately, some people own a car, just to have something to drive.
I'm sure the Pinto club, and Mavrick/Grabber, Pacer and every other P.O.S. car ever made, has a split class on, if you can't afford to take care of it.. blah blah blah.

Truth be told, I only really give a damn about my 'bird because I've pissed away so much time on doing stupid detail ****. I could set my '71 on fire and it would still be more valuable as a burnt husk.

My 91 I had, I could have wrapped it around a tree and walked away laughing at it. I really didn't care about it, it was a DD/beater, just a car.

To some, it's a car, transportation, something they could afford at the time until the future when they can bury their -ss in debt leasing a newer P.O.S.

So to complain that someone spent $50 and rolled out paint to just get their turd to last a few more years instead of rotting completely away, is kind of silly to complain about because, if your putting Rustoleum on your car, clearly, you're not thinking about owning it in the future.

It's a nice dream to think that, and I can't say I disagree with how you feel but, it's very unrealistic to think that everyone who owns a thirdgen should think about them sitting on an ivory pedestal as you do.

JMO, don't take it to seriously.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, I'm sure most who do it would disagree with that statement.

deadbird

I do agree with you but, realistically, life and practicality takes over the ability to keep a thirdgen. They are not exactly family expansion friendly cars.
When that times comes, planned or not, not everyone can hold on to their m---et dreams (joke) and they have to ditch the dream for something that can haul the heard around.

Not all do well enough to have a family and an expensive hobby/dream.
Hell, some can barely afford to keep the $700 pile they got running to keep them going to school.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Which only further emphasizes my point about priorities.

I'd love to strip and spray mine, as it is showing it's age in a few places, but the reality is I've got a wife to buy a car for, savings and retirement, and a house downpayment to worry about first. It's all about priorities.

383 Power

iTrader: (2)

A list of things that I think are worse than a poorly done paint job:

- 26" Rims on ANY car. If you have to jack the car up or cut the fenders or both, you're wrong.
- Neon colored candy paint jobs. They look stupid, Especially on a Caprice or Crown Victoria. Bonus Stupidy points if you use an advertizing theme like "Hawaiian Punch" or "Skittles".
- Too much Bass. Nobody thinks you're cool if you get huge Woofers and Rattle everyones windows.
- Lambo Doors. Were you dropped as a baby? The kit is even outrageously expensive. Why would you do that?
- Beaters with nice paint. The car should be mechanically sound FIRST if you're not doing a Strip it down to nothing style paint job. Before a paint job, the hinges should all work well and the weather stripping should be good. All the body panels should be aligned.

That's my .02

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

This will never change Puma. Looking at the age group that does this says it all.

I say let em keep doing it, I will stock up on parts from their parting out threads and my third gens keep growing in value.

z28romance

this is why my wife has a mini van. she can keep it lol. when it comes time to paint my ole z28, im planning in investing in a paint gun and some decent paint. i can probably find someone to let me use a booth for the weekend, if not i can build a booth out of plastic sheeting (mmmmm, asphixia!). im looking to keep my total cost at around $600, and from the research i have done, this is an attainable goal. BUT! i need to finish up my mechanical work first. and thanks to the IDIOT i bought the car off, theres plenty of work to be done.

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

Puma I have to agree with you. Sadly to many people worry about what the car looks like and not the mechanicals. How many breakdowns does it take to learn that the money would be better spent on repairs. (Seems that many don't ever learn.)
One sentence in a book I read about painting said that painting is the last thing to do. You do not want to have to scratch up a paint job making repairs or engine swaps later. Not to mention tow bills due to a breakdown. I felt that that made the book worth reading.
For the people out of work wouldn't the money be better spent on repairs or gas to look for work. Then they can afford a more proper paint job.
I do not see alot of third gens here but about a little more than half are giving the stereotype credence. It is sad.
My car was one of those when I bought it (one step away from a junkyard) and still needs lots of work (it is a slow ongoing process). I do not drive it most of the time and will be glad when it is worthy of being a part of TGO.
When I have the mechanicals etc. done I will spray it myself inside with real automotive paint bc/cc.

FYRCHKN

These rants are ridiculously funny! Just because someone doesn't spend 3x what the car is worth for a paint job you automatically assume they're 20 years old, broke, and one step from living under a bridge?

Ok ok, I have to take a little bit of the blame for the outbreak of tractor paint jobs. I ended up with excellent results (good enough to sell the car for TOP dollar 2 years after I painted it to a guy that was extremely picky about paint and body work). Now, everybody that thinks they can rub sand paper on a car and squeeze the trigger on a paint gun thinks theirs will end up looking as good. The truth is, they won't and don't.




Beat original paint:



The car I'm building now isn't going to get the same treatment as the last one, though. I now have access to a booth and the specific color I want is gonna cost me.

At the time, the tractor paint was the best choice for me for both cost and durability. The Sherwin Williams rep told me that their single stage red would fade out in less than 2 years and all supplies needed totaled up to $300. So, I went with a longer lasting paint that was around 1/10th of the cost.


These cars are a hobby for me, not daily drivers. When you have other responsibilities like a family, that usually has more priority for money than a car. But, I'm also the type of person that is incredibly **** about everything working and functioning properly. The paint on that car was the very last thing that I did to it. Mechanically, it was as much of a new car as a 20 year old car could be.

Oh, and just for clarification, I'm 31, successfully employed, have 2 kids, a wife that makes good money too, and a 7 month old home that I just had custom built. Not bragging, just trying to set the record straight that not everyone that goes the budget route is poor white trash in the trailer park.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

My car is not worth that kind of money. And I'm not going to spend the kind of money on it to make it like that. There is NOTHING rare or special about it despite it being a GTA, there are over 2000 white GTA's just like it in my model year alone.

So you paint supremists wanting every thirdgen to be the model of perfection can go screw themselves as far as I'm concerned. My car looks good. No one knows its not a $5000 job, and I don't put it in shows. I bought my car to DRIVE it. I get rock chips and damage from driving it.

This was my car in 2009 after years of the FACTORY paint fading/peeling and such. The car had been stored for about 4 years without running because I had other priorities.


Let me explain about the car a bit. It was a California car, had basically zero rust, but the body was beat and the paint shot. Mechanically I've gone through the car front to back. 54k mile LT1 drivetrain, 23k mile LS1 axle, new brake hardware. The suspension was also redone with new bushings where needed.

I had a cheap, Maaco paint job put on the car. I didn't have the money to have a base/clear paint job put on the car, nor could I afford to have a place not like Maaco to do it.

So I have this car that mechanically is in great shape and drives great. But when I drove it I got dirty looks, as if it wasn't worth the effort. Like it was a piece of crap just because the paint was crap. So I went and replaced the panels that needed replacing, did some minor body work myself to get rid of the big dents, and had Maaco spray the car because I didn't have a place I could do the paint portion in.

Is it the most durable paint? No. But am I HAPPY with the paint job. YES. Why would I want to drive around a crappy looking car that I've poured my blood and sweat into the car. I got dirty looks and my car was dismissed as a piece of crap simply because it looked bad.

After I painted the car I got compliments on my MECHANICAL work on the car. Simply because it didn't LOOK like a piece of crap anymore.








I had 7hrs into the body work, then I drove it to Maaco and had them spray the car. All totaled between parts I replaced, my own body work and the paint it was $800.

And it was WELL worth it.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

The car looks great for a DD. Glad you didn't use rattle cans.

TransAmGTA88

Camaro rims on a GTA? Come On!!!

Just giving you a hard time.

Dusk2600

I saw this thread comming a mile away.

I whole heartly agree with Puma

However
I have to admit i just recently primer rattlecanned my sonoma pick up bed because i replaced my rusted out one with a near mint one, problem was it was red not black like my truck. Got sick of looking at the 2 toned truck so i sprayed some flat black primer on it. looks a lot better than it did. again all about priorities, im looking to purchase a house soon and i didnt need to spend 750 to get the truck bed painted on my 160K mile truck. overall im happy with the results. However if i saw my camaro was primed like this was i would throw up!

Your better off with faded paint all one matching color that a $22 primer rattlecan any day of the week

86birdt/a

my 86 is sitting on jackstands in the garage while i work on getting it running better and making it reliable then ill finish the body work and spray it i use ppg paint and have never had a problem spraying in my garage i may have $400 in supplys and with some color sanding and buffing the paint job looks good this will be my second car to be painted in my garage. i have sprayed tractor paint on my 4wds and with the right stuff for under $100 you can have a decent looking paint job.

Camelicax

I agree with the OP, rattle can paint jobs just cause more work and headaches for the person who does decide to paint it properly. I am currently in the process of fixing up a rattle can disaster (image below)......also I am a trained auto body technician and refinisher who has been trained at the PPG training center in Pittsburgh PA. That said, if you going to spray can you car, an afternoon of prep work will pay dividends for how decent the job looks. I am from NW PA and understand rust is a SOB and sometimes you just got to get it patched up and sprayed one color to get another year or two out of it. So I understand the why people do it....I just don't like it

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Nowhere have I stated that, all you have to do is read any thread and it's the same volunteered information.

I don't say it, those who create the threads do.

The point is, while your car looks good in the pictures for tractor paint, I still disagree with doing things that way, and the proliferation of people in that thread who now want to paint their car with tractor paint expecting good results is unfortunate, because 99% of them won't get good results.

GerryCat09

iTrader: (1)

Some people are getting ruffled feathers here, but I have to side with Puma. I've seen way too many cars in my town (thankfully thirdgens aren't too common among them) that get poor work done overall. Bondo bucket bodys, rattle can paint, and the next month its in the crusher for an engine problem that started over 200$ dollars ago in crap body work. Again, the theme here is not to spend the big bucks, but to get it done RIGHT. My 1986 Trans Am has been in the restoration process for nearly 2 years and I'm still not finished with the body work, because I have limited time, but its getting done the right way. I'm just trying to say, if you are going to be a Do-It-Yourselfer, take some pride in it and let other people see that.

scottmoyer

Guys, the complaint from Puma and many others is the word "cheap". We hear it every day. Where can I get this piece "cheap", How can I replace this "cheap", I need a repaint "cheap". We don't all have money, but like it was mentioned, we need to prioritize. If the people on TGO are asking about rattle canning their cars because they don't care about the car, it's just cheap transportation until they can afford a better car, etc, then why are they on this board??!! I have a 2003 Monte Carlo SS that is my wife's daily driver. I fix the car with whatever I can find that's correct to fix it, but I'm not on any Monte Carlo forums. If it's just a car to them and they don't care about it, why go to an enthusiast website and bring down the caliber of the forum with this garbage?

If you have a repair that needs to be done, there's nothing wrong with trying to do it yourself. The problem comes in when you try to do it yourself, not only to save money, but also to piece it together with the cheapest looking components. As was mentioned, you can polish a turd and make it look good, but you need to invest the time and energy. If you're not willing to invest the proper time, energy or money, then I ask again, "Why are you here?"

TransAmGTA88

Well said!

haps

iTrader: (4)

Hear hear.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Scott - I have to disagree with you there. I have a 1988 Thunderbird with a Mustang 5.0 drivetrain. The car looks like hell and is my DD. When I need to do a mechanical repair I go on Mustang forums and Thunderbird forums for advice. I am not trying to bring those sites down, but I am trying to repair it correctly. I did that whole swap with advice from other people on those forums who did the swap already. I don't have a thread on those sites about my rattle can paint job though.(I don't have a rattle can job on the car - just using it as an example) I see no problem with people who frequent this site because they need advice on repairing or maintaining their cars. It's when they start posting their awful paint jobs, and modifications. There is a lot of good advice here from people who learned from experience. It should be shared with everyone who can use it, whether their car is pretty or not.

scottmoyer

Exactly! I utilize the Monte Carlo forum when I need help fixing something. I utilize the Silverado forum when I have issues with my truck that need repairs and I want to know what others have done to fix the problem. For the most part, I can get my answers by lurking and using the search function. Otherwise, I may ask a question, but most of the time it's not necessary. I wouldn't join the Monte Carlo forum and tell them that I just fixed my cracked dash by spraying it with undercoating from Autozone! The members there would ban my account as they would consider that flame baiting or trying to start trouble. If I did something that stupid, I wouldn't tell the world on an Internet forum and try to convince them that it looks almost perfect and only the right eyes can tell the difference.

The issue we have is that I know of people that never spend time on forums, yet they have a thirdgen and come here for answers on how to fix stuff by searching the forums and seeing what others have done to fix the issue. Kind of like me on the Silverado and Monte forums and you on the Mustang/TBird forums. They see all of the crap in their search responses and it does make TGO look like a bunch of hacks and not very professional in our repairs or upgrades.

haps

iTrader: (4)

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Wow - you are totally missing the point.

haps

iTrader: (4)

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

Seems to me he is missing the point puma was trying to make.

Sometimes helping a person does not mean agreeing with them.

This is the best forum I have found for these cars. The most people to help when you have a problem, the best place to get good advice. Not every one agrees with me but I do not expect that. I expect to have the people on this forum to want me to and try to help me have a good dependable and safe and nice looking car with their good advice. Part of that means spending money wisely for repairs etc.

TransAmGTA88

Some peoeple are taking this too way personal...this a message board used to gain knowledge on how to do things the "correct" way...and if someone has a different way of doing things that yields the same results then by all means post it.

Ron U.S.M.C.

OK, I see this every time some one rattle cans a car. Here's my question. WHY do people even post that/what there doing in the first place when they are going to get bashed ? IMO, if you want to feel good about what your (rattle can,etc.)doing than this site is not it.
If you read the threads concerning this topic you will see what I'm talking about.Its ridiculous to expect any thing different with this one.I'm not saying this applies to anyone in particular and I'm not trying to diss what some people are doing but it just gets to the point,and seems to me that some like confrontation because that's what you will get.

Edit = Buy the way I took on a second job for over 1 and a 1/2 years to get my paint job.($3,000.00).