Stekman

I am in the process of setting up my front brakes. I have decided on 2 pc rotors, using the larger "GT" style. My brake hats are Wilwood part number 4844, which are sold as a fixed mount hat. However, with them, I was given a hardware set for dynamic mounting. This car will be a road course car, so braking power is an issue. I will be running the Wilwood 48 fin GT rotors. They are sold in both the fixed and dynamic, the price difference not being big enough to be a factor. Should I run the dynamic rotors or just get the fixed?

RTFC

That is the hot ticket for a roadrace car. It helps avoid pad runout under hard cornering with a fixed mount caliper. Dynamic mounts float the rotor instead of having a floating caliper.

Stekman

Thanks for the info, Dean. I know you run calipers of comparible piston area. What are you doing as far as the master cylinder is concerned? From your threads I gather that you have mid-8's as far as piston area. I have 1.88" and 1.75" pistons (2 of each, obviously) which will be yielding a 10.36 cubic inch piston area. More area, more fluid movement obviously. At the moment, I am looking into a LS1 master cylinder (97-03) to move fluid, however, I am not sure that will be enough. For the rears, I am planning 4 pots at either 1.25" or 1.38" diameter, not sure yet. Would the LS1 master cyl. move enough fluid, or should I look at the GM-replacement that is sold by Wilwood? They have that in either the 1.00" bore or a 1.12" bore. This would be with a factory brake pedal so factory pedal ratio (about what is the factory pedal ratio, anyway?), unless an aftermarket pedal can be hooked up to the factory boosters pushrod.

Thanks for the help.

RTFC

Right now I forget off hand what the total piston volume of mine is (I have it posted on another post- I have too many things going to remember by memory). I do know that I run the 1.38" rears and that I do have tooo much rear pressure. Working on that withing a month or two (I just started a new work project and will be very busy). My MC is the stock J50? without looking also- its the larger bore of the J50 or J65- I think J65 was the 1LE. Mine is the drum rear MC. It has a stiffer pedal and better feel- I'm keeping it now after running the new brakes for a month. SAorry, I am kinda in a hurry this morning.

Just a cautious note. I am having problems with brake noise with the Wilwood pads for slower street use. Am trying to get the bugs worked out here. I am going to try Hawks HPS pads next to see if they are better for daily driving without squeal. Its very light noise, but its there. Its the racing pad coumpounds that do this. I have a Wilwwod "T" compound that I just put on the rear but did not have time to turn the rotors to get the "E" compound material off the rotor face. They are better, but still making a slow speed moan on initial stop and start from light pressure every once in a while. Stitting in stop and go traffic is bad, they will start to moan when barely rolling 5 feet then stop. I am going to try the HPS and ciut all 4 rotors to vclean the faces before I install them- Oh yeas, I have "Q"s on the front right now, they are the ones squealing lightly at colder speeds. Not loud like a wear indicator touch though, just light squealing.

Stekman

Thanks again for the info, appreciated as always. When you say to much rear pressure, could you expand on that a bit? I see you have track pictures from the Cali road course (great looking course, BTW). Did this too much rear pressure cause a loose-in condition? I guess I kind of want to "learn from your mistakes" so to speak.

For the street use, I will be running a set of EBC Greenstuff pads up front. That is the only streetable compound available for the Wilwood GT style calipers. if I get some brake chatter with them, so be it. I guess that's the price to pay for running an aggressive race-caliber caliper. I am not certain yet what compound I will run on the track. I will have Wilwood A, B, and C compounds, I think I can choose from some Hawk compounds and PFC has a few race compounds for me as well. I guess that's too far off to be of concern, though. For the rears, I am not certain what caliper design I will go with. Probably the Superlights, I am not sure.

For the fronts, I am looking into a brake fluid recirculator, as my calipers are set up to run with one. (<A HREF="http://dpiracingproducts.com/productdet.php?producttype=Brake_Recirculator#DPILC/SB">Click on "LC/SB Brake Fluid Recirculator" for info</A>). Probably not needed, but I would like to fiddle with one anyway. For the rears, I will probably use the Wilwood adjustable proportioning valve. I am going to try to mount that in the cabin area. Along with that, I have been eyeing the <A HREF="http://dpiracingproducts.com/productdet.php?producttype=Brake_Systems">DPI Lock Resistant Brake Valve</A>. Now that you say you have too much pressure to the rears, that makes me think that I would probably experience something along the same lines, and a loose-in due to overbrake on the rears is not something I wish to bug out at the track or otherwise.

As far as brake line is concerned, I am about to be buying the hard line and steel braided. For the front, 3/16" will be the choice. Now, would a -3 AN around the calipers be sufficient for that? What about the rears? I think the factory size is 1/4", correct me if I'm wrong. I think I will stick with that.

For now, I think the hardest thing I need to do is the 5x5 hub. But that's a different story.

RTFC

I am always learning from my mistakes, Thats how we better ourselves.

Back to cars...
The GT calipers use -
1) larger surface area pads (5.13"x 2.88") where mine are (4.74"x2.43"). So that alone is going to give more front brake force.
2) the GT calipers have larger piston volume than my SL-6 calipers, so that too will give greater front brake pressure.

You should be more balanced front to rear with the GT fronts and a 1.38 piston rear caliper with a pad volume fairly equivilant to the Dynalite pad surface area.

I would not recommend going to a recirculator. You'd be doing that stricliy for show. You will never get those brakes hot enough unless you were short track circle racing and you are just adding extra plumbing and weight to the car. I like a brake line setup with fewist fittings possible just from a reliability standpoint. Less chance for a failure with less fittings to leak.

3AN is a standard size braid brake line to the calipers. Much more fittings and adapters availiable for 3AN than 4AN.

My current system I have to get the pad compounds I weant fist that will be quiet for street use, Then from there I will add a Wilwwod "in cockpit" adjustable valve to further turn down the rear brake pressure. My rears are locking much sooner than the fronts will, but even so it is stopping very quickly, It will do so much better when I can balance the bias. These rotors make such a bitchin noise when coming down hard on them from above 60mph, makes kind of a whirling noise like a turbine winding down. Its a rush sound that get the adreniline pumping.

Stekman

Ok, so cap off the crossover tube then on the calipers?

Also, on your fronts, I see you have the red gunk around the crossover tube. Mine is missing. Does Wilwood sell that stuff? It just looks (and kind of feels) like red RTV. I think I need to sit down for the night and compare our 2 brake setups (your current, and my planned).

<A HREF="http://images.snapfish.com/343323%3B923232%7Ffp64%3Dot%3E2334%3D%3C3%3B%3D%3B37%3DXROQDF%3E232378%3B993%3A82ot1lsi">Click for caliper image</A>

I'm getting the parts as they are made available to me. So far, i just have the brake hats and calipers, pads are ordered (I think..), both used for a short period of time. Grand total so far comes to just shy of $275 ($300 shipped). I don't think I'm doing too bad. I wish I could afford Global West hubs, but I am doing this on a college kids budget . Know of any way to convert to a 5x5 spindle snout by chance?

RTFC

Leave the bottom crossover tube, You need it for fluid flow into the outer caliper body. The upper two fitting just need bleeders installed and mounted upward enough to get all of the air out of the caliper when bleeding the system. Note my calipers do mount slightly angled forward, but when I jack up the nose of the car they level out for a better bleeding angle.

The red silicone is just like RTV. You do NEED it so the crossover tube does not vibrate and cause the fittings on each end to leak.

As for hubs, why 5 on 5 hubs? Are you using different rims that are 5 on 5 or maybe its just an oversight by you and you're refering to our stock 5 on 4.75 pattern. If so, then I would just suggest doing what the C5 brake conversion guys are doing and turn down 1LE rotors into hubs.

Stekman

The hub idea was all part of the "crazy" thing I sent you in the e-mail. So I guess ignore that part. My hubs are 5 on 5 and the rims I am looking at are as well. Adapters can convert to rims and the hubs, though, I guess so if I could just start as 5 on 5, all the better, I suppose

I was planning on having rotors turned to hubs, though. Do you know if a Caprice rotor (from like an 85...) will fit on our spindles? Since the center hub area is all that I need, for about $35 per rotor from Autozone, I can get a Caprice rotor, and they use the same bearings as the 1LE. Otherwise, I would probably snag something off of eBay or something of the sort. Another thing, what are these "metric rotors" that US Brake has?

406TPI

iTrader: (1)

Stekman....if you need a set of hubs, I happen to have an extra set here that are ready to go....I turned them down from standard 10.5 brake rotors.

Stekman

Pm sent!

flyitlikustolit

BTW.... Stekman, your pads are coming from the UK.... direct from the manufacturer. should be here in 2 more weeks. for the rest of you, a little known secret is that Pepboys stock Hawk HPS pads and EBC greenstuff, and they can order (either from the warehouse in your region or SO from the vendor) any other product made by either company. (there may be a few exceptions, but I haven't ordered all of the 1,100 part numbers the two companies have yet).

Stekman

Out of sheer curiousity, what is the purpose of the read coating on the center of the EBC Greenstuff pads?

<A HREF="http://images.snapfish.com/343399%3B523232%7Ffp54%3Dot%3E2334%3D%3C3%3B%3D%3B37%3DXROQDF%3E2323799736839ot1lsi">Here</A>

flyitlikustolit

break in coating. when you break in the pads, that's to keep them from getting too hot and glazing over. it gets hot and coats the rotors, providing a surface to help the pads stop the car.. like on a set of hawk brake pads.