86IROCNJ

If so, how in the hell did you mount your accessories? I am using the CSI pump. Well, i went to put the motor in today with the brackets and stuff on as well but they just will not work. So we put it in without the brackets. I can always switch things out now that the motor is in there. I did a search and found that Meziere has a pump specifically for TPI applications. I believe a member has it too. I am not using the stock intake, i am using the miniram. I am also keeping the ac. It is an auto and i have the power steering and also the smog equipment too. Any help would be greatly appreciated. And before anyone flames for having an electric pump, i did find that they are not bad at all to use for the street. May not be as cost effective but i wanted to go with something different! Obviously i did not research enough to know there would be major problems with the brackets. When i opened it up at first i knew there would be trouble but i can not get anything to fit right. Well, thanks for your time and any help-Bryan

86IROCNJ

No one is using one? It is on an 86 and before i go to a Stewarts and try to sell this one, i would like to know if i can get it to work! Thanks

86 IROC

iTrader: (3)

I too at one time wanted to run a Moroso electric 'street' pump. I couldn't find a cost effective enough way to do it and keep my 92' brackets. But, this is just my $0.02 - how about the accessory drive from an LT1? There would be lots of conversion work, but you might even be able to use the cylinder head mounted electric smog pump from the LT1 as well.

Like I said - just a thought. I have not attempted this, take it for what it's worth.

86IROCNJ

Thanks for the reply! Well, i really have not come up with a solution to use this water pump. I would have to use custom brackets which i do not have access to, or i would have to go with a $400+ Meziere pump and right now that is unaffordable! Maybe in the future but not right now. Need to get the car running before it gets really cold! I am pretty much decided on a Stewarts pump, either stage 2 or 3, most likely 2. It is a cheap, cost effective pump and should be a direct bolt in affair. If anyone comes across this thread in the future and has a solution, well than be my guest to inform me/us. Thanks Edit, from what i can tell on the web site, there is no stage 3 for our cars!

fly351

lol, i think that goes to show that no one really uses them..

-fly

86IROCNJ

B/C they are so impractical, right? Yeah, ok! Plenty of people use them, i guess not from this board with all of the people checking out the thread and not responding, but thanks for all of your HELP anyway! I was going with something different, not just the easy way out i guess you could say. Not everyone uses them, which is true, so i thought i would. The "guy on the phone" said it would work but when i got it in my possesion, i began to think otherwise! Meziere makes one for our cars but it is over $400. For anyone who is interested, it is part#WP3215. If you want to use a CSI pump, you will have to have custom acessory brackets.

Jworking

The Meziere part number is WP321 S. The list price is 490 dollars. You can call the folks at Thunder Racing and they may sell it for less money. If you get a high flow pump list price is 400 dollars, you could not buy one idler pulley much less anything that would come close to remotely working for less than 90 dollars. I have been running the Meziere pump WP321 for a year with no problems and it and my car have worked perfect. If you have any questions call me. 800-208-1755 Jay

86IROCNJ

Jay, didn't i speak to you on the phone already?!?! lol I think i even said the wrong part# then too. I keep misreading what i have written down. You have one in your Firebird, right? Thanks for your help! I did not speak to the guys over at Thunder, i just got a Stewarts pump in UPS like an hour ago! I would have liked to go with an electric but maybe next time around. I am seriously running out of money to spend and the car just needs to be running again. So i am now selling the CSI pump, if you know anyone who is interested! Well, thanks again for your help and clearing up the matter here. Later-Bryan PS, I was wondering why you had an 800 # and then it made sence when i checked it to Meziere's!

Kenwood

iTrader: (1)

Well I figured out a way to do it BUT you still SCRAP all of the serpentine brackets... Mine was much easier than what your trying to do because I scrapped the AIR I scrapped the AC and I scrapped the Power steering.. But you run the alt off of the Pass side head...Use a metal sleeve to space it out and a heim end as your adjuster.... Then off of the Lower Innermost hole in the DS head you run an idler pully... For AC you RUN the OLD 85-87 tpi brackets...Which will still locate your Compressor in the right spot...and you also use the OLD 85-87 style Power steering brackets........ This is hard to explain without a picture BUT the heim end Adjusts belt tension by moving the alternator.... The Belt goes like this....Around the crank...Then Up to the idler pully(above the WP on the DS head....That flips it backwards..And allows clearance to run over the motor on the electric water pump....Once it wraps around the alternator it goes back to the Drivers side were it wraps around the ac compressor...Then Down around the Power steering Pump pully and back to the crank... If you are running AIR as well then you run the air pump under the alternator...where the 85-87 had it mounted...

Really the only trick is #1 finding an idler pully thats CHEAP...I mean street and performance sells small ones that look very nice but they are 100 dollars.... And the only other trick is You have to add spacers to the Power steering bracket...BECAUSE the early year PS ran off of a seperate v-belt which sat further back...So basically the spacer would be the width of a v-belt groove....OR if you wanted to make it easy on yourself BUY a 85-87 Crank Pully and PS PUMP Pully and AC compressor.... if you do that Its EASY...The Accesories on the drivers side would each run off of their own v-belt and the brackets allow each to be adjusted independently... Then the Alternator would run off of a 6 rib Belt which would fade off to the passengers side... There are a million ways to do this...And all for very little money and little imagination...Those 85-87 brackets and pullies sell for NOTHING used because everyone Prefers the later year serpentine setup...Trust me I got nickles and pennies for selling my 87 stuff...

Kenwood

1987 Vortech Supercharged GTA
Moser Ford 9" Coan PERformance TH400 With Transbrake, forged 355 , 16 PSI vortech Blower, plus a lot more

IN THE PROCESS..Accel PRo RAM ...Electromotive TEC III, And Brodix TRACK 1 heads..

9's or broke..whatever comes first.

86IROCNJ

Thanks a lot Kenwood! If it works that way ,maybe it will help someone in the future. I got the Stewarts pump already and am trying to sell the CSI. Thanks for the response though. Take it easy-Bryan

SpeedCat86

I remember an article I read (CHP, or maybe CarCraft) about a white '67 that the guy had converted to an electric pump.

He removed the impeller from the stock pump, and was using an inline electric pump on the lower radiator hose. With the impeller removed, the pulleys just became idlers, and all the stock brackets and drives worked normally.

and: Inline pumps are cheaper!

TRAXION

I'm running a high flow Meziere pump ... but I have a custom bracket. Click the link in the Sig and look at the 'new setup' pictures.

Tim

dans82bird

Electrical water pumps are way impractical for street use, their not as reliable.... a regular pump will flow just as good (if not better) and won't fail. scrap that thing and get one of these
http://www.stewartcomponents.com/

TRAXION

You obviously don't know what the heck you are talking about OR you are relying on 'old skool' knowledge. The Mez pumps are rated at 2500 hours. Do the math. If I drive my car 10 hours a week then the pump will last almost 5 years. Why impractical? Also, in case you didn't know, the LT1 guys are running the Mez pumps on the street and have been doing this for years.

Tim

breathment

yes, electric water pumps have come ALONG way recently.. check out the new CSI NuWave electric water pumps..

http://www.csiperformance.com/waterpumps.html


TRAXION, do u have any more pics of ur pump and ur custom set up for it?

TRAXION

Tell me the pics you want and if I can take them then I'll snap 'em in the next couple of days.

Tim

86IROCNJ

Damn, what have i missed? Well, thanks for the advice Dan, but if you had read my other post i already got a Stewarts pump. I just gave up on the electric pump for now, i want to get the car started. Trying to sell it but its not working, lol. Thanks again for the added info guys. Hopefully this thread will be of help to some. Its all about the learning experiences! Later

dans82bird

but WHY? they cost more and flow just the same... a stewart or any other aftermarket like edelbrock or weiand will flow just as good

86IROCNJ

I was going for the "be different" factor. I wanted to do something a little different than the rest. It is suppossed to free up some hp but not much, i think someone dynoed it and it was 5 or maybe 7hp to the wheels. Sure, its hp thats already there but you still get it back. I don't think it should be the main selling point for a $200+ electric pump though! Thats why i bought mine, thats all. I though it would be "trick"! lol

Jed

I'm a little late on this one, but I'm going to have to agree with Tim. I've been running a Meziere pump on the street for over two years. It is awesome. My engine runs cool and consistent, I eliminated a belt driven accessory, and I can run the pump with the engine off to cool it down. The belt driven pumps all spin at engine speed regardless of the brand. I wanted to be able to sit in traffic for an hour and not watch the temperature gauge climb. With the Meziere pump I can do that.

I didn't know they made an L98-specific pump - I'm using their regular sbc pump. I needed a spacer kit and I had to grind some material off of the stock brackets, but after that it all went together no problem.

Jed
89 Formula 360/T56 6 speed

MrDude_1

2 things...

1 for thoes that ask, why a elec pump.... you can turn it on with the engine off... great for cooling it down... like when you want to work on it without waiting a hour.. or if you are in the staging lanes after driving to the track, ect...


2... i used to work at a auto parts store... there are plenty of idler pullys for surp. systems for $15 and cheaper..... if you put a idler on the block between the ps pump and the crank, cant you use a shorter belt and have it work?

r90camarors

What exactly are the bracket issues when using the electric pumps? Like jed said, wouln't grinding a little fix the problem?
Also, why is the spacer kit needed?
Taking a quick look at the belt setup, I would have to agree with MrDude, in that a shorter belt would work. It looks as though running it around the crank to the PS up to the alternator, then under the idler to the A/C pulley back to the crank would work.
I'm running an underdrive crank pulley, which would make for a little more belt to pulley contact on the PS pulley-and I wouldn't think that slipping would be an issue.

MrDude_1

it isnt.

if you do a search, i posted the belt routings.

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

the point of an electical WP is to relieve accessorie strain offa teh motor. the mech pumps just cant do that. it all add HP. besides its easier to underdrive with electrical WP becuz you dont have to worry about WP speed

FullSendRacing

I went with a Proform water pump from Jegs. I couldn't believe how light it was when I took it outta the box. gotta be 1/3 the weight of the clunker stock pumps. I used Alan Grove brackets to mount alternator and PS pump. If you're looking to reduce weight and get a clean install (without AC or AIR), this is the way to go.

Another reason no one has mentioned for using electric is that it's designed for a specific speed. Besides the fact that it doesn't draw directly on the engine, it doesn't vary with engine speed, so the electric pump will always run at the most efficient speed.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

I too have wanted to do this on my 406, i currently have a stewart components water pump. LT1 guys pick up 10-20RWHP off an electric waterpump, even those are driven off the cam, but still, a regular SBC is driven off the engine via the belts. From what I have seen, trying to get a electric water pump to work on an old SBC with v belts, isn't worth the hassle on a street car. I have given up A/C, but I'm not going without P/S and an Alt.

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

what better time to convert to serpentine???

86IROCNJ

March now offers a bracket setup to work with most electric pumps, but that is an expensive option for most. I have been toying with the idea recently but that would mean that I would have to give up the March serp. setup and alum water pump I currently have and I am not ready to do that just yet. Just an option for you guys to look into for that easy bolt-in installation.

flyitlikustolit

another good reason not to run the elec. pumps is that currently, if my car is on a roadtrip, i can use any one of 19 different part #'s that fit various small chevy's..... from a 4.3 v-6 to a 400 sbc. they'll all bolt up and use my stock brackets. and i can get one at any auto parts store. no funny brackets, no custom mods to the accessory system, just simple stupid installation of a pump.

i think the benefits are great. but if i wanna turn on something to cool the motor so i can work on it, I've got 2 hayden electrical fans i can turn on to flow some air through the radiator.

by no means am i knocking the electrical pumps. they're awesome, and can be really great additions, especially if planned right, to any motor. I just like knowing if my car's pump breaks down 1,000 miles from home, all it takes is a couple wrenches and sockets, and an hour of my time to fix it. (not to mention only about 30-70 bucks).

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

how often do waterpumps go out in you....

flyitlikustolit

not often, but I'm that guy, that the one time it does go bad, it's at the worst possible time. I built the car to be fast, fun, and reliable. elec. pumps are reliable, but they don't last forever. so until autozone carries meziere or CSI pumps, I'm gonna stick with my high-flow mechanical pump. it's plenty fast without the extra 5-7 rwhp. again, not doggin elec pumps, just not my fav flavor.

noelocol

Hey Jed,
Can you tell me which Meziere pump your are running? what is the gallon output per min? the reason why Im asking is Im currently considering the Moroso Billet Electric pump and its rated at 19gallons/min, which seems a bit low for my liking since Id use my car as a daily summer driver.

Thanks
n

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

19 gmp is way low for a dd of any sort, i would look for 35gph+ proform makes one thats realativly inexpensive i think 160 or so?

ResurrectingZ

I have had regular water pumps fail, quite often I might add.

Gramps

iTrader: (1)

i just bought a setup from march including the pulleys, alternator brackets and P/S brackets. but after buying i had to modify the components so I DO NOT RECOMMEND EVER BUYING FROM MARCH. i made a thread about them in the vendor review. they sucked. actually...only good thing was the price and thats because jegs.com was having a sale.

86IROCNJ

Damn this is old! lol Did you buy the setup for electric water pumps?

Gramps

iTrader: (1)

ya, im pleased with the look and quality of the pump, but finding a good company that makes aftermarket brackets is difficult

kbog54

I have been using a csi electric pump for almost two years on the street and have not had any problems with it whatsoever. I know that you can buy new motors from summit for 109$ and other places prolly cheaper, that is the only thing that really ever goes out of them. I have mine on a carbed 350 and the only accesory im running off the engine is the alternator which is mounted on the drivers side of the block with brackets made from the original brackets that i made in around 15 minutes with a welder and chop saw. The only problem i have with the brackets is i think they flex a l ittle when the rpms get above 7200 and tend to throw belts. I switched to a manual s-10 steering box which was a great swap imo also.

Jed

Haha, this thread is over 4 years old! I'm running the 35 gpm sbc model, and it is fine for daily driver use. I think the part # is WP101. I'd be a bit reluctant to run that Moroso pump on a daily driver. If I am looking at the right one in the Summit catalog, then the Mez pump doesn't cost too much more. Spend the extra money, you'll be glad you did.

89_ho_rs

I am actually thinking about going the electric water pump route. I do have the serp setup. its an 89. would i have to make an idler for where the water pump pully used to be? would I have any issues with the rest of the brackets? does anyone have any pics of their setups? thanks for any info.

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

you can't use the serp brackets with an electric water pump at least I can't think of a way to do it. March has brackets now.

mjsmikey

I have an 89 Firebird, with a Swapped 350 CI with 330HP. Since the Temperture has gone up the car is starting to run a little hot. My mechanical pump usually works fine, until I am stuck in traffic after work in my Nice clothes and I need to turn my AC on, the car temp then Shoots up as soon as I click on the AC/ Its fine without. I still have the Stock Radiator and Stock Type Water pump, but have two Fans, a Pusher and a puller, and was considering swapping to Electric to save some overheating problems when stuck in traffic.

Has anyone tried this? Will it work, or do I need to get a bigger radiator?
Keep in mind the car temp runs about 180 degrees, until I flip on the AC, then it creaps up to about 240 then I have to shut it off. Assuming it will work, Thermo Theory(AH HEM.. Heat exchanger Rules). What problems should I have to install it? And what type of pump might I need to avoid problems?

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Have you had your radiator flushed or checked to see if there is any debris in front of it. I would try a stewart components stage 1 water pump. They flow more than a stock pump. The benefit of electric is that it frees up some power not because they flow more. Which is why I suggested the Stewart pump.

Also what kinds of fans are you using? SPAL is suppose to be the best.

Also is the car tuned right? If it's running lean it can make it run hot.

Hope this helps.

loopingz

iTrader: (2)

If I understand well electric pumps can help in town because they flow more than mechanical at lower rpm. Which can change at higher rpm.

oil pan 4

iTrader: (1)

I use a proform electric pump in my camaro that I drive 5 or 6 days a week.
To mount the Alt, I cut appart the bracket, rebuilt a new one out of it and mounted the alt up side down.
To tention the P/S I installed a turn buckel and attached it to the A/C bracket. I pulled the A/C a few months before, glad I didn't cut out the remaining A/C bracket.
In 2003 I wouldn't have used an electric, there were too few out and were untested for daily use. It seems over the last few years the have gained a lot of use and support.
Also the proform pump unit can be changed out in what looks like 10min with an allen key and some RTV. Only draw back is a new motor/impeller replacement unit is about $100, about $50 more than a good regular pump.

PA91Z28

Ok I read all of this tread and am still confused. Can you or can you not use a shorter surp. belt with an electric pump. And if so what part # belt do you use?

pwdbychevy

Bringing this back from the dead. You CAN use a shorter serp belt. I'm using a Meziere pump. The numbers on my belt are worn off but take a piece of string and run it around the pulleys and then measure what you have. Go to the parts store and find the closest match.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I may try to mount my stock accessory brackets with my CSR waterpump and run that for now till i can upgrade to better/cleaner looking brackets. Looks like it will work with a shorter belt

pwdbychevy

I did have to grind some of the ribs on the serpentine brackets to get the pump to slide right in. I also had to drill, tap and plug the lower coolant passage on the block since the electric pump doesn't cover that hole.

Jed

Way to revive the dead. Guys, just use the spacer kit, as mentioned above. No drilling and tapping required. It will work with the serpentine brackets, you just have to grind them a bit for clearance. And yes, you just have to measure for a shorter belt.

Spacer kit.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MOR-63510/