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I've just completed the 16197427 swap on my 89 C1500, and everything is working fine except the TCC. I've read and re-read, and everything I've found is very vague. I have it pinned to E10, I wired my brake switch to E13, and I set the non-elec transmission option. Can someone please explain to me how to get this working properly.
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Last edited by 3400beretta; 02-18-2007 at 04:27 PM.
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Also, you may have to set the parameters in the prom to get the TCC to work. The standard TCC code is normally not used as the PWM TCC code and TCC code for the 4L60-E is entirely seperate from the 700-R4 type TCC/manual code. I dont remember the location off the top of my head, but I covered it in my hack posted on this board, and there have also been some threads about using the standard TCC as well.
You also need to have your Park/Neutral switch wired up properly for the TCC to operate. I will look tommorrow and see which pin I am using for TCC. (EDIT PIN E11!!!). Make sure that the Automatic/Standard transmission selection is set to Automtic and non-computerized automatic is checked. The VSS must be wired up properly for the lockup to work as well.
I know for a fact that the transmission settings used in BJYM will allow the converter to lock up properly. Just make sure the hardware side is setup properly and the two option bits are set correctly. Everything else worked fine for me.
EDIT-
The Park/Neutral switch needs to be inputed into the Range 3 input or E5.
Awesome, thanks for the help guys. Now i just have one more question, as far as I can tell there are two options for non-computer transmission. One is at L400F bit 6, and the other is L6728 bit 7 which in gmpcm is listed as 4L80 NON-ELEC TRANS IN USE. However, in the hack, it shows L6728 bit 7 as not used. Which is correct?
Well it still does not work. I realized that the VSS signal should be on F12, as I have a MPH reading now (ALDL). I have tried the TCC on both E10, and E11, Neither work. I have confirmed the PCM knows when in P/N, and knows when the brakes are pressed. I have set b7 off, b6 on @ L400F. Now I return to my original unanswered question, should bit 7 @ L6728 be on? In GMPCM, it shows option as NON-ELEC 4L80.?? I have Im at a loss here.
Well it still does not work. I realized that the VSS signal should be on F12, as I have a MPH reading now (ALDL). I have tried the TCC on both E10, and E11, Neither work. I have confirmed the PCM knows when in P/N, and knows when the brakes are pressed. I have set b7 off, b6 on @ L400F. Now I return to my original unanswered question, should bit 7 @ L6728 be on? In GMPCM, it shows option as NON-ELEC 4L80.?? I have Im at a loss here.
Bit7 is @ L6728 is only used with the electronic transmission code. When the B6 at L400F is selected all the electronic transmission code is ignored.
The TCC pin is definately E11 and the output definately works.
If you have a 350 try the TCC settings in this bin. I tried it this morning again and the TCC locks just like it is supposed to.
I got the file to work by renaming it as a .bin file, then opening in winrar, then unzipping it. Weird. Anyways, TCC still does not work. Im wondering if it has something to do with my truck (89 c1500). From what I gather the DRAC is located in my speedo cluster, rather than being a separate unit. Could this be the problem? I stated earlier that I switched my VSS input to F12, and I do get a MPH reading when I datalog, but which input are you guys using? And yeah, the TCC was working fine with the old 7747 ecm.
I got the file to work by renaming it as a .bin file, then opening in winrar, then unzipping it. Weird. Anyways, TCC still does not work. Im wondering if it has something to do with my truck (89 c1500). From what I gather the DRAC is located in my speedo cluster, rather than being a separate unit. Could this be the problem? I stated earlier that I switched my VSS input to F12, and I do get a MPH reading when I datalog, but which input are you guys using? And yeah, the TCC was working fine with the old 7747 ecm.
I still have the 1983 VSS in my Van that is mounted behind the cluster. Works and reads fine.
As long as you are getting a VSS reading and it is accurate, you are good. What color wire are you using for the TCC connection @ E11? It should be the tan/black one that was in pin A7 of the 7747.
The Blue high gear switch wire that was attached to Pin C7 of the 7747 is no longer used. Just tape the end and lay it aside.
Also take note that the TCC when used at the factory settings in the PCM and the .BIN I attached does not lock until the engine reaches about 125*F, the throttle is above 5% TPS, and the vehicle has reached about 40 mph.
Yep, its Tan/blk. One thing thats bothering me, is when I connect TCC to E10, and then datalog, in the TCC flag section, it shows "TCC Enable Solenoid" as Valid, but when I connect it to E11 as you guys have done, it shows Invalid. Also it seems like about when the TCC should lock, "TCC in Lock Adjust Mode" becomes True. I dont know what that means, but maybe someone here does.
Yep, its Tan/blk. One thing thats bothering me, is when I connect TCC to E10, and then datalog, in the TCC flag section, it shows "TCC Enable Solenoid" as Valid, but when I connect it to E11 as you guys have done, it shows Invalid. Also it seems like about when the TCC should lock, "TCC in Lock Adjust Mode" becomes True. I dont know what that means, but maybe someone here does.
TCC Lock Adjust flag is Valid when my TCC is locked.
dimented24x7 sent us a notice about this, but I was able to download the zip (bin file) and open it in TunerPro using the 427 definition.
I also uploaded a zip file (with a different bin) and was able to download it, extract it, and display it in TunerPro.
Its odd. Its been an issue in the past. I tried it and recieved the same error message he received that its invalid. I previously used to be able to post and DL zips without issue. Is it a possible issue on the end of the user?
TCC locks just fine when grounding the tan/blk wire.
???
All I can say is Tan/Black to E11, running that .BIN with +12VDC applied to the brake switch circuit, and the P/N switch properly run into the PCM, the PCM should lock the TCC. If it doesn't you possibly have a bad PCM or a bad burn on the prom.
Yep, its Tan/blk. One thing thats bothering me, is when I connect TCC to E10, and then datalog, in the TCC flag section, it shows "TCC Enable Solenoid" as Valid, but when I connect it to E11 as you guys have done, it shows Invalid. Also it seems like about when the TCC should lock, "TCC in Lock Adjust Mode" becomes True. I dont know what that means, but maybe someone here does.
I dont recall exactly whats in teh datastream, but there are also feedback inputs in the PCM that determine if there is actually a device hooked up to the output and that its working properly. If pin E10 is always open, then itll show invalid. The PWM'd TCC is on a seperate output, and isnt monitored at the hardware level, so as long as the TCC locks, then your good to go.
If you are having problems, check my hack for a rundown on what everything does. Routine LAE65 controlles the 700-R4 TCC. Also make sure that the RPM thresholds for the TCC are set properly. IF theyre not, the TCC wont lock. The only flag that is used in teh non CC routine is b5 of L0085. All other flags arent used. As a check, set the manditory TCC speed to something like 20 MPH. The TCC should lock. I posted alot of this in another thread. I think it was in the PCM thread on teh TBI board.
Edit: Ill post the latest hack later tonight. The current one doesnt have that routine commented if I recall.
Last edited by dimented24x7; 02-25-2007 at 08:19 PM.
Heres all the applicable stuff for the non-CC TCC. No other code, status bytes, or calibration constants are used other then whats shown for the non-CC TCC, so ignore everything else, as there are two other TCC routines, which are each unrelated and entirely different from one another. This PCM also controlled the standard on/off TCC as well as the modulated TCC with variable apply and release rates.
All I can say is Tan/Black to E11, running that .BIN with +12VDC applied to the brake switch circuit, and the P/N switch properly run into the PCM, the PCM should lock the TCC. If it doesn't you possibly have a bad PCM or a bad burn on the prom.
There should be a constant 12volts to pin E13? I spliced into my brake switch and ran it so that when the brakes are pressed, it provides 12volts. When I datalog, it shows "Brake Switch" pressed, when i press the brakes, and Not pressed when I dont press them, so I assumed this is the correct way to wire this?
I got the file to work by renaming it as a .bin file, then opening in winrar, then unzipping it. Weird. Anyways, TCC still does not work. Im wondering if it has something to do with my truck (89 c1500). From what I gather the DRAC is located in my speedo cluster, rather than being a separate unit. Could this be the problem? I stated earlier that I switched my VSS input to F12, and I do get a MPH reading when I datalog, but which input are you guys using? And yeah, the TCC was working fine with the old 7747 ecm.
Should be pin F13 for the non-CC trans setups. Like everything else, there are lots of redundant but completely different inputs and outputs as this PCM was during the years they where transitioning to full computer control for the drivetrain.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3400beretta
There should be a constant 12volts to pin E13? I spliced into my brake switch and ran it so that when the brakes are pressed, it provides 12volts. When I datalog, it shows "Brake Switch" pressed, when i press the brakes, and Not pressed when I dont press them, so I assumed this is the correct way to wire this?
That sounds ok. Move the VSS to pin F13 and if the calibration is set up properly, it should work.
Last edited by dimented24x7; 02-25-2007 at 10:33 PM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Should be pin F13 for the non-CC trans setups. Like everything else, there are lots of redundant but completely different inputs and outputs as this PCM was during the years they where transitioning to full computer control for the drivetrain.
Thats the thing, I have no MPH reading while datalogging when the VSS is connected to F13. Only works on F12. But I will try it on F13 again tomorrow, see what happens.
What mode are you datalogging in? There are two inputs. F13 is the standard 4000 pulses per mile that the old cars and trucks used. Thats the one you want to have your VSS hooked to. The other (F12) is for the transmission output shaft speed, which is like 180,000 pulses per mile or something. That one you dont want to use unless your using a 4L60-E.
Mode? I dont understand the question. I have the autoprom, tunerpro RT, and the latest $0D.ads file. Looking at the aldl values, I get a MPH reading only when my VSS is connected to pin F12. So how is that possible?!
EDIT: I've gotten confused, I originally had the VSS on F12, as that is what the pinout chart says, I however switched to F13 and that is where I get my MPH reading. Sorry for the confusion.
Last edited by 3400beretta; 02-25-2007 at 10:53 PM.
Well I messed around with it today, still wont work. Changed all the lockup stuff in the .bin to 30mph, no lockup. I think I'll just mount a switch and be done with it.
If it doesnt lock up, then something is still wrong. Did you check to make sure that your editor actually uses the right addresses? The PCM is a bit confusing because there are THREE seperate and distinct TCC routines. Check the addresses in the editor. Im willing to bet that they point to the standard E-trans addresses, and not teh ones for the standard TCC. Use the addresses in the info that I sent if your not already. Those are the correct ones.
Also, its worthwhile to double check and make sure there is +12 volts at the brake switch input with no brakes applied and 0 volts with the brakes applied. In addition, you must use pin E11 for the TCC and pin F13 for the VSS. If its wired any other way, it wont work.
Last edited by dimented24x7; 02-27-2007 at 01:12 PM.
Wait a minute, I have +12 volts when the brakes are applied! How can I get it the other way around? Is it ok to wire a constant +12 volts? or does the PCM need to know when I press the brakes?
Its ok to have constant +12 volts, but the TCC may remain applied while the brakes are applied for a short time. If possible, you should try to find a different brake switch.
Well I applied constant +12volts to the brake switch input and it works! Also, when I touch the brakes the TCC unlocks, so the TCC must be wired into the brake switch somehow. Thanks for all your help guys, it was really appreciated.
I have attached a revised x-over pinout chart. If you follow it, everything will work.
Last edited by 3400beretta; 02-27-2007 at 05:18 PM.
Well I applied constant +12volts to the brake switch input and it works! Also, when I touch the brakes the TCC unlocks, so the TCC must be wired into the brake switch somehow. Thanks for all your help guys, it was really appreciated.
I have attached a revised x-over pinout chart. If you follow it, everything will work.
There are actually 3 different electrical brake switchs on the older trucks, built into two switches, as well as a vacuum release for the cruise.
One switch runs the brake lights and TCC
The other is the electrical and vacuum for the cruise.
I hooked +12vdc to the PCM from an un-used connection left-over from the 7747 swap. My TCC input does not go through the brake switch, unlocks fine as the stock brake switch still breaks the TCC circuit when the brake is depressed.
The 4L60E uses the brake switch solely as an input into the PCM and is not directly in the TCC circuit like the older trucks.
Thats interesting that its wired directly externally on the older trucks. I guess thats why the TCC outputs in the PCMs are gated internally to cut out when there isnt a voltage applied to the brake input. That probably takes the place of the older external switches.
