Sandgroper

Why can't we flash the PROM chip through the the ODBI ALDL connection? It is possible on ODBII...

I have a 1227165 at the moment, worked the engine, want to change the settings...

The options I've seen is to remove the computer, take out the chip and flash it using an eprom programmer, or get an Ostrich device.

Is that it?

It would be nice, even if wiring modifications/additions were necessary to flash the chip directly through the ODB port.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Because the OBDII ECMs from GM are already Flash memory based. It is built in from the factory.

There are Flash based alternatives to your stock ECM. It uses a dedicated link for high speed data logging and flashing of the calibration.

RBob.

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

popcorn

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

NVSRAM , I brought some soda's Ronny !!

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone changed the $6E code for the NVSRAM to work in the '7165 ECM?

(with as flake'y as the '7165 ALDL is, not sure I'd go with it)

RBob.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

No the nvsram is just working on the 730 series

syntax terror

http://www.delcohacking.net/forums/v...php?f=27&t=356
I have my 3500 v6 running of this with the help of this hardware.This thread outlines the sutup for my fiero the aussie's have done some killer work on this
http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/119333.html

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

forgot about the holden / commodore 808

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-...emory-via.html

syntax terror

He has a 7165 and this works with that ecm. Download and check out what it has to offer. 1,2 or 3 bar map, no maf and ve tables to 9600. this some nice soft/ hardware.

Sandgroper

I have a 730 ECM, the Memcal in it is AUXW (from a '91 V6). Can I salvage anything from the V6 Memcal?

I also have a 1 Bar MAP sensor and a harness connector for it.

I don't have connectors for the ECM but I guess I'll be able to find them (in Australia) at a Holden junkyard. Know what model Holden will have connectors that fit the 730?

I'm going to need a solution for the knock sensor too. Maybe I can use the 730 with the external knock sensor from the 165 ECM, or is that going to get complicated?

I'll build the 730 up. In the meantime it would be good to get the 165 managing things better than it currently is.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

There is a guy in brisbane That has alot of 165 ecm harnesses connector as well as the 730 ecm. The plug on the 808 may work. I have attached two links the first has instructions on how to make the v6 memcal into a v8 see the last page pdf. It also shows using the external esc on b8 of the 730. I can also assist shipping to au If your in need of parts. Small things are reasonable Larger things makes since to fill up a priority box. I sent a link to the guys auctions in brisbane. Hope that helps.



http://www.gearhead-efi.com/Fuel-Inj...=9129#post9129

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CHEV-CORV...#ht_500wt_1065

syntax terror

monticarslow did the work on the 7730 nvram boards that they sell at moates.
There has not been much intrest in the us but down under they put some work into this. The 165/808 is the most popular ecm for them and they know how to tweek them. the nvram board can be set up for 2,4,6,or 8 cylinders it has an adjustable knock filter and high speed data logging and ve learn which updates the ve tables on the fly.http://delcohacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=167

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I didn't think the moates.net nvsram has a cyl select or adjustable knock filter?

syntax terror

No that is for the 7730 the one from the VL400 on delcohacking sight works with the 7165. If you reed the back round he started with the set up from monti car slow and refined it.The $12p was made to work with the nvram board on the 808/165 ecm. They don't have a 7730 type ecm. The Aussie board might work on the 7730 but i have not tried. b

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

The netress and i/o on for a 730 and 165 tpi v8's are the same so it would be a question if the code works and the frequency of the knock filter. Hum good info.

syntax terror

This is some good reading
http://www.delcohacking.net/forums/v...hp?f=11&t=1820
The $12p board I have is a diy board but the one vl400 has made is good quality and was designed for flexibility.The biggest problem is lack of tunes for us engines but they have a wide range adjust ability for different configurations. With my car I had the 7170 swapped to the 7730 for the nvram then swapped to the 7165 for the ve learn function. i have a 2005 3500 that was ob2 so there is no ob1 for it I had to start out fresh as i have dis ignition. I in put settings from $a1 and it runs good just need to get better exhaust to get a better tune.I have both boards so i need to put the aussie board on the 7730 and check it out on the bench.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

I've been scanning through the $12P thread, but haven't found the question asked or answered yet, can $12P be used without an NVSRAM (or similar) product?

I would think that it could be used with an Ostrich, or EPROMs, but not completely sure.

I hadn't previously considered using $12P, since it was only speculated that it would work in the '7165.

--==EDIT==--
A few pages later, and it seems that it should work with an Ostrich, since it works with EPROMs, just lacks the ability to auto tune the VE table, which is fine with me.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

would be curious to hear your 730 results. Thats one heck of a deal for the au nvram.

http://delcohacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=655

Sandgroper

VL400 said I'll go get one off him and let you know how it goes on both...

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

When I said speculated, I'm talking about years ago when $12P was first created to use in the '808.

Sandgroper

Can I put Camaro ROM on $12p?

VL400 said that Hmmm? would that be just the start address, unlikely... know where the (not many) differences are/might be?

syntax terror

Sandgroper start of with the $12p download and look through it and find a bin that is close to your set up. Look at the wiring as you will need to remove your maf sensor then go from there.
I don't want people to think that $12p will work on the 7730 as it has not been tested. It would be nice to have all it has to offer but it might take some code to get it right. I have both boards but don't have a test bench set up as I just moved.I would like to work on this but don't want to disappoint any one.I don't want to steal anyone's thread so if anything comes of this I will start a new thread.

syntax terror

Six shooter pm sent

Sandgroper

I can help you on that... I'll make a harness and put both 7165 and 7730 in the car if you like. Seems many people are keen to find out about 12P on 7730.
You're welcome to use this thread for that, then it's all in the one place.

syntax terror

That might be something better done on a test bench so you don't let the smoke out of the hardware or cause an unsafe condition in in your car. With a test bench you can chach the out puts to see if they work and when they work as $12p has 4 configurable outputs that can control things like converter lockup,egr or anything you want to control by rpm or temp like n2o.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I really need to get a jimstim soon.

Sandgroper

Okay, good points. No smoke, no fire.

What would I need to setup a test bench?

I have:
TunerPro, ECUFlash, Hex Editors, a Tactrix Openport v1.3 ODBII Cable, ... some bin files, etc.

I guess (for a test bench) need a 12V power supply for the ECU, what else ... do I need a compiler for Assembly Language, what do you use to compile on Windows, on Mac, on Linux? How am I going with the guess work?

syntax terror

A jimstim 2 works but do a search plenty of interesting reading on the subject.Look at couple sites listed neat stuff.

syntax terror

Just for the fun of it loaded $a1 xdf and bin into the ostrich on the 165 and guess what happened?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

41, 51

Sandgroper

it took off in reverse

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

syntax terror

No codes but i cant data log. This is with a v6 memcal and and an ostrich. The cel comes on when you turn the key to on and the fuel pump runs for 2 seconds and goes out when it starts. I cant get a dash that works even after going back to $12p but it was not in limp home mode as the fan was not on. I can't run the car long because I think it has a blown gasket. Can not get the air out of the system. While the car is down I am going to make a adapter harness to hook the 7730 back up.

JP86SS

iTrader: (1)

I would suspect the $12P could not run on anything but the NVSRAM module. To make that work in the first place the code must reference addresses in a different range of memory (NVSRAM), not the std locations. The calibration entries go into the normal address locations using ECU/XDF files. Transfers are done on the fly to replace the memory locations referenced by the code while executing.
Adjustable knock filter? Would like to see that for sure. Would love to get my engine back in the car and get my bench fired up again to test some of that! I know I could use it with the new combo.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Going through the OSE $12P thread on Delcohacking seems to indicate that the code will work when programmed to an E/EPROM as well.

syntax terror

http://www.delcohacking.net/forums/v...387e77d1b2c7e1
The knock is customizable depending on the filter you use .That was different topic on adjustable knock filtering. When used without the nvram you loose the ve learn.

Sandgroper

I now have one of the '7165 boards from VL400 at delcohacking. I'll put it into the 165 to start with and get that all up and running.

To run $12P on a Camaro use the Aussie NVRAM board there is a bin for a Holden Commodore VR Manual (BCLF). You have to change the Spark Reference angle from 60˚ to 10˚, change a couple of wires on the ECU connectors, and it will run.

The $12P is MAP system, so you also get to eliminate your MAF sensor (if you want to). There are some flexible inputs that you can use if you want to keep your MAF.

Apparently $12P is better supported on the 1227165 ECU. I haven't tried this, but you could probably convert 1990-92 Camaros from 1227730 back to a 1227165 modified with the Aussie NVRAM board.

I'm looking forward to using the VE Learn, and the Wideband Oxygen Sensor capability with an LC-1 controller.

chevyman1982

im trying to find a page that identifies flash codes.ive seen them here before but cant find them now.any help would be great thanks

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Are you talking about diagnostic codes?

Just Google it.

"GM ALDL codes" should get you what you need.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=27

Sandgroper

MAF sensor removed, and MAP installed. Running $12P on 7165 with the Aussie NVRAM board. I would like to get the 7165 setup running before experimenting with it on the 7730.

The need for 'some code' might also apply to the 7165 too... I don't see why a 7730 car can't be (retro fitted) converted to a 7165 - as the $12P uses a MAP sensor (no MAF), and apparently it's better supported on the Holden 808 i.e. 165.

Anyway, back to my current problem...

I'm stuck with the Spark Reference Angle setting. I'm starting to think that maybe the machine shop didn't dial-in the cam properly?

The VR Commodore uses a different type of distributor, it's stock setting is 60° - needed to change that to 10° in $12P to get the engine to idle.

I'm not sure where to set the crankshaft timing advance, on the harmonic balancer. The stock 305 setting is 6°, but the engine runs poorly at that - it's better at about 10° and up to about 30° on the balancer.

Camshaft is a COMP Cams XE 08-502-8 with a Cloyes 9 Keyway Timing Chain.

How can I determine the correct advance setting at the harmonic balancer?
AND how does that setting relate to the Spark Reference Angle setting in $12P?

Sandgroper

I had the exact same issue, but there is a solution... use the .adx file from this linked thread http://www.delcohacking.net/forums/v...8&t=473#p24050

There is a bit of an explanation from VL400 basically 12P physically requires 'bi-directional communication' before it can or will send data. See this linked post http://delcohacking.net/forums/viewt...tart=10#p24102

You also need to ground pin D11 to put $12P into diagnostic mode, AS WELL AS use the linked ADX file to log data. You may also need to be using the OSE 12P plugin for Tunerpro v5 from this linked post http://delcohacking.net/forums/viewt...t=plugin#p3801

Sandgroper

$12P is running on the car, but the tune is for a Holden Commodore (VR Manual) V8.

The Road Speed is not correct.

Does anyone know the difference in outputs of an '87 Camaro TPI Auto 1227165 VSS, and an Holden Commodore VR Manual VSS?

Or just the Camaro VSS output will help...

syntax terror

Try 1214.3 ppk I think that was the number that was used in the bin i have.

Sandgroper

I did it briefly with GPS, and got 1242.68 as being very close to accurate. I'll try your suggestion and see if it gets closer...

[Edit] I ended up with 1248.99 after a bit more testing with the GPS.

Sandgroper

I'm back onto this project again, the worked 87 Camaro 305 TH700R4...

The computer was 1227165 but is now an Australian '808 with NVRAM and USB Communications. The MAF sensor has been replaced with a MAP sensor, and the oxygen sensor is wideband (with an Innovate LC1 module).

It is running OSE $12P software and the default ($12P) BCLF calibrations from a Holden Commodore VR V8 Manual with a couple of minor changes i.e. the Spark Reference Angle changed from 60 to 10 degrees, and the Road Speed parameter to get the speed right.

I want to know if anyone can help me with extracting the stock 305 Auto calibrations (ABUT) copied from the original Memcal in the 1227165 and put the calibrations into the OSE $12P setup?

Any tips at all are welcome. Particularly those regarding what tables are contained in the ABUT binary, and the Hex addresses of the various settings, and variables. It would be great if someone has done a comparison of the stock ABUT binary and the OSE $12P binary. :-)

[Edit] In Tunerpro 5 Menu select File::Export data to text file is a good start... did that for the BLCF and the ABUT. It's a bit easier to see the relations.

[Note: The attached BLCF file is already modified]

RBob

iTrader: (1)

Be sure to also change the max SA to 42* and the max retard to -3.5*. Otherwise the distributor won't be providing any advance.

RBob.

Sandgroper

Thanks RBob, I changed those values TP5 rounded the values to max SA 41.84* and max retard -3.52*, will they work?
--
I started another instance of TunerPro 5 and opened the ABUT binary in one and the OSE $12P BLCF binary in the other.

I am attempting to extract the values from the original binary and put them into the OSE $12P tables. I think it will be a better value base to tune the 1987 V8 than the BLCF values.

Looking at the Spark Advance Tables; BLCF has a Map A: EST - 20-100kPa Main Spark Advance vs MAP and RPM table, and ABUT has a Spark Advance Vs. RPM Vs. Load table the latter being in relation to MAF sensor load I guess.

This question is relating to the table rows and columns... For example, see the attached spreadsheet which has the Spark Advance vs RPM vs Load table from each binary. The ABUT has a finer calibration.

In terms of RPM ABUT steps up in smaller increments than the BLCF i.e. 400, 600, 800, 1000, 1200 and so on, as opposed to 400, 800, 1200 in BLCF. Can I insert the 600 and 1000, etc rows into the OSE $12P table (possibly sacrificing some of the higher RPM rows in BLCF)?

Similarly the ABUT columns are in relation to a MAF sensor, but I have replaced the MAF with a 1 bar MAP sensor... In the spreadsheet the ABUT Load columns are converted to percentages to map them against the BLCF MAP columns, and the ABUT has 12 columns whereas BLCF has only 11 columns.

Can I insert another column, into the OSE $12P table, and do the percentages Load/MAP conversion make sense?

Maybe I should convert MAF Load voltages from ABUT Mass Air Flow Table #1-6 into MAP values instead of the percentages?

See example in the attached spreadsheet.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

The rounding of the min & max SA is OK.

The load values (LV8) of 32 through 208 is calculated from airflow (MAF) and engine RPM. Just use the LV8 of 32 as 20 KPa and the LV8 column of 208 as 100 KPa.

You can't insert columns or rows unless you also change the code that uses them. The only thing you can do is to use the values that line up (RPM wise). Then for LV8 to KPa, get a little tricky by interpolating between them for the proper KPa column.

Note that the KPa columns are both every 10 KPa, then every 5 KPa.

RBob.