Blade09

Hey everyone, I'm sure you all get very tired of reading posts like this one so I do apologize in advance. I have spent a fair amount of time trying to pick this tuning stuff up on my own and have had minimal success. It is time I start to beg for advice as my car has been together since the beginning of Spring but I haven't been able to tune it to a point I am comfortable with.

That being said, I have managed to get Tuner Pro v5 up and running, burned the appropriate base bin graciously supplied by RBob a long time ago. I am using the ECM out of an 87 bird with $6E mask and have been working out of a bin cleverly named 89Z_TPI_350_auto_327_stk. Not 100% sure of its origins but like I said, RBob pointed me to it so I took it as a trustworthy source.

That being said, I have made a few data logs and have exported them to csv files and combed through them. I can see where the BLMs and INTs change and various other things. Now what do I do with this info?

I have looked through many articles and I'm not sure if $32 and $32b have different tables or maybe the table headings are different in different editors or bins etc etc but I just can't seem to match any of my available tables and scalars to what is present in the threads.

About all I have managed to do is change my injector size. I even tried to disable the EGR using the Disable if MAT < scalar and when I set it to max like every post said to do the car simply would not start. It would crank super slow then not at all, I was worried it was filling with fuel or something crazy like that.

I'll see if I can post up some files for those super helpful types and maybe you can better assist me should you choose to do so.

Thank you in advance everyone! Don't hate on my data logs! After nearly 2 years of building I just wanted to take it down the street, forgot to maintain reasonable logs. Most are just idles and then a couple long drives around the block...

-Dan

Edit:
Info about car--

'91 RS
Had TPI parts convert RS harness to work with TPI for easiest installation
Used TPI MAF, throttle body, and computer out of 87 firebird

HSR 355
- Vortec Heads
- Comp XFI 268
- 32 lb injectors
- Hooker Shorties (2460s I believe)

700R4
-Shift Kit
- Vette Servo

10 bolt Rear
- 3.43 gears
- Eaton Locker (waiting for grenade...)

Edit Edit:
Per Fred's request I am adding some more useful info. It does start, the logs were before we figured out how to actually adjust timing (I was unplugging the wrong wire). It seems to idle decently with BLMs hovering around 130-131 and INTs mostly pinned at 128, which I assume is acceptable to start from. It stumbles hard at part throttle and comes alive at 50% or more throttle, which I have only done a couple of times. The BLMs jumped to 150+ and the INTs jumped around as well. I just don't know what to do with this info. Perhaps when I get home for Thanksgiving I will be able to appropriately time it and that will help some of the stumble maybe.

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

You should post up more info on your setup. What year vehicle are you working on? Also what are the problems you are having. Does not start? Rough idle, running rich/lean/bog etc. From your sig, it would appear that the subject vehicle is a 91 Camaro with 355 HSR. But you said that your using an ecm out of a 87 bird with $6e mask and 89 350 TPI bin (probably ARAP or APYU). Both those bins are MAF. Your 91 Camaro was speed density. Did you convert to maf when you did the HSR or kept speed density? You mentioned the $32 and $32b masks, but both are not compatible with the 89 bin you said your using. I'm new to tuning myself, and found the stickies of great help. There are allot of knowledgeable people on this forum, but I think you should post up more info and some history of your setup so they can help you better. Good luck.

Blade09

Added some more info to OP to help answer some of these questions.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

There are some similarities between $32 and $6E, but enough differences that make them quite different.

You will need to work with the MAF tables to get the BLM in line in the 124 - 132 area. That part throttle stumble with the BLM going to 150 needs work. Need to increase the MAF table in that area of airflow.

See the tuning guide book sticky, there are a bunch of links for tuning the MAF setups. Ignore all advice that have you working with the injector PW table. They don't exist in $6E.

RBob.

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

In addition to what Rbob said, you also need to get your timing set before you start tuning so you have a known/good baseline to start with.

Blade09

Thanks for the info guys, I'm sure this stuff gets old for you but I promise it is all very new for me.

I had about a half hour with the car this weekend as I was passing through town. Is it normal for a setup like mine to want lots of timing? Even with the correct wire unplugged it wouldn't stay running under 15-18* and seemed happiest around 23-25* at idle. That seems like a ton to me since stock setting is 6* but based on my timing light I can't get anywhere near that number.

So I guess my question is, is it possible that the car wants 20+ degrees of timing at idle or is my light way or timing mark way off?

-Dan

Edit: I should note that once the wire was plugged back in and the RPMs were brought up it never advanced past the upper 30s, which seemed acceptable to me as far as total advance goes.

Blade09

Anyone have any thoughts on my timing issues?

Blade09

So I got home to the car yesterday and after a day of trying to get my laptop to datalog I realized that I needed to jump the 10k resistor on the ALDL cable for it to actually transmit.

Playing with a tune that was modified for a similar build I got the car running a little better but the BLMs still jump into the 140s at part throttle and around 2400 or so it starts to shutter at about 30-32 degrees of timing then drops back to 28-29 and seems to rev okay. Haven't taken it much further since I just started tuning but I'm still wondering about my timing.

Can someone explain to me how to set the ref angle/base-timing constant? my car is idling between 15-20 degrees and seems to be fairly happy there but if I set my base timing in the tune anywhere over 10-12 it won't even crank over and start. What should the base be set based on then?

And if anyone wants to explain to me how to read the spark table that would also be much appreciated. I assume the Y axis is RPM but what is the X-axis? It just has Binary counts across it..

Thanks,
Dan

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

I'm new to tuning myself. I believe the x-axis is Load Variable (8 bit), usually referred to as LV8. From what I've read in the stickies, LV8 is a calculated value based on several inputs (rpm, maf gm/sec, etc). My LV8 at idle is around 56 according to my last datalog. My calculation of LV8 came up with 59 at idle.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

In the BIN, stock base timing is 6* BTDC. Leave that as-is and set the physical distributor base timing to the same 6* BTDC. This is done on a warm engine with the EST/BYPASS connector open (single tan/blk wire connector).

Turn engine off, reconnect EST/BYPASS and re-start engine.

RBob.

Blade09

So what am I missing RBob? Because every time I try to back it down that far while it's running it won't even stay running. I'm probably doing something wrong but once it comes up to temp I pop that wire apart and try to turn the dist but I can't seem to get close to stock and then it does and I can't even get it to start again usually.

RBob

iTrader: (1)

I don't know. As for the engine wanting 20+*'s at idle is typical. More so with the cam.

With the cam I'd also increase the idle speed. Try 750 RPM warm in park with 725 RPM warm in drive.

May also need to open the idle stop screw to keep the IAC counts in the 20 - 25 step area. Again on a warm engine and with no other loads.

Now try to get the distributor down to 6* BTDC with the EST/BYPASS open. If it won't do it then set it to 8* or 10* BTDC. Do the same in the BIN to match.

Turn the engine off and leave the EST/BYPASS open. After ten seconds or so see if you can start the engine. If not try cranking with the go-pedal on the floor (clear flood mode).

If it doesn't even crank that is another issue.

RBob.

bigal55

iTrader: (1)

Just for a quick check, turn your engine over to TDC and pull the distributor cap. Is the rotor pointing at the number 1 spark tower? If pointing at number 6, rotate the engine 1 full revolution to get the rotor toward number 1. At this point, the rotor should be pointing very close to the number 1 tower. If it is somewhere in between 1 and another tower, your distributor may be off by a tooth. Just something to check!

Blade09

So I unfortunately ran out of time last month and had to jet back out of town. I'm back with the car and trying to pick up where I left off.

I checked that the distributor and timing mark were right and they are close enough for government work. The bump stop method we used to find TDC on #1 won't give me down to the exact degree but it was within 1-3 degrees of where it should be so I am not worry about that for now.

I need to try to reset my idle properly. If I am reading the correct column in the data log then at idle it hovers around 100 IAC counts, which is far from the 20-25 RBob suggested...

I am just so frustrated that I can't figure it out that I am starting to want to work on it less and less. That is not a good feeling for sure. Trying to stay motivated for now.

As always, thanks for the advice already given and the advice I am sure I will receive in the future guys!

-Dan

gbayfisher

Like Rbob mentioned, you need to adjust the the idle stop screw to bring your iac counts down to the 20-25 range. In your case you need to open the blade a bit to allow more air in through the tb.

Fred SS

iTrader: (3)

IAC at 100, its' wide open. Your throttle blades need to be opened more like Rbob suggested. With that way out of adjustment, maybe that is contributing to your not being able to get the motor to idle at 6 degrees.