ElectronicsNeed help wiring something up? Thinking of adding an electrical component to your car? Need help troubleshooting that wiring glitch?
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I wanted to have my car start with a simple push/pull of a button. I also wanted to keep VATS intact and be able to use the key if I wanted to. I also wanted to be able to integrate it with my RFID door unlocker. So I decided to do it.
I am probably going to use the switch named Ignition/Start Pull Switch found here http://www.watsons-streetworks.com/i..._switches.html
I wanted to have the toggle and momentary switch combined into one unit so that it would be one single movement to turn the car on. Instead of "flip this switch and press that button." Of course though, if that's what you want, go for it. I will have to modify this switch to make it push instead of pull.
How it works:
The RFID dongle is in my pocket. I walk up to the car. The RFID module in the car reads the dongle and unlocks the doors. It also allows current to flow through the pushbutton and temporarily bypasses the VATS. I get in, put the clutch in, and push the button. My car starts up, and I drive off. I reach my destination and pull the button to turn off the car. I get out and walk away. Once I'm out of range, the RFID module in the car can no longer read the dongle and so locks the doors, cuts current to the pushbutton and returns VATS to normal.
Alternatively, if I don't have the dongle, I can use the key to unlock the doors and turn on the car to drive away like normal.
I should note that all the circuits that receive current when the ignition switch is in the "Run" or "Bulb Test" positions will also receive current when the pushbutton is in the Acc/Run position (pushed in half way). So even without the key or dongle, the accessories can be run.
If someone tries to start the car without a key or the dongle, the car won't start. If they push the button, nothing but the accessories will turn on. The starter will not get power.
I will have to disable the steering column lock, make a circuit board, and splice in a bunch of wires to do this. Luckily, I pretty much have the wiring diagram done. BigBabyLou has already been of great help in this post http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/el...oid-diode.html (Starter Solenoid Diode?), and hopefully the rest of you can help me where I need it.
I have attached my wiring diagram so far. The things that look like -o o- are connection points. Where connectors would go. So basically, the things on the sides (and the pushbutton) are not on the circuit board but somewhere else in the car. The DPST relays that are kind of in the middle are made with the flyback diode already in them, I did not forget to include the diodes.
As I move along with this project, I will update this thread and hopefully document it with pictures once the time comes to put it in my car.
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-1989 Camaro with a 305 TPI, soon to be 6.0L LSx. -1985 Camaro with a 350 TPI, probably gonna stay that way. At least until I'm done with the other one...
I used a kit. It's called K9 Sombra. Ebay has them for under $50. It was the only active RFID kit I could find. It's pretty cheesy and the directions suck, but messing around with a multimeter will tell you all you need to know. It does however work quite well. I haven't had problems with it. If you don't know, there is passive and active RFID. Passive means that the RFID tag has no power source and the reader sends out the signal to get the info from the tag. These usually have a really short range and are useless if you want your doors to unlock while you walk up to your car. Active means that the tag has a power source and it sends out its signal to the reader. Active have a much greater range and the signal can go through non-metallic objects.
Have you worked on any plans for your setup? I would be interested to see if anyone else has thought of a different way to do this.
No... I haven't even gotten that far with it. I have all these random ideas for cool little electronic things that I want to do to the car, but there's a bunch of other stuff I have to get done to it first. Right now, it's the T-top seals. Which I have been messing with for 6 months or so... I want it to be perfect, but I don't really enjoy body work type stuff, i.e. sanding and painting rusted sealing rails... I just haven't been able to stay motivated...
I'd much rather make electronic thingys, or do engine work, but the electronics are pointless if the car can't really be driven, and engine work (I have a 6.0L GENIII waiting to go in) is really expensive...
The only thing I've actually been consistent on is a little light sequencer project that I want to do a kind of "sequential" 3rd brake light. I've been teaching myself how to program microcontrollers to do it...
EDIT:
That K9 Sombra thing looks pretty cool. I was actually thinking of doing all that from scratch, but why if there's an affordable kit to do the same thing. Thanks for the info.
Last edited by BlueIroc-Z; 03-29-2009 at 10:13 PM.
I was looking for connectors, and have a question. If it is rated at 3A Max, and 250V max, can I run any combination of volts and amps that doesn't exceed 750W? Or do I have to heed each rating separately?
Edit: I looked around and thought some more and I say no. Wire isn't rated for voltage and current. Just current. So the connectors shouldn't take into account voltage either. I don't know if I'm right, though, so please correct me if you know the answer.
Last edited by ¡MR.AWESOME!; 03-30-2009 at 11:27 PM.
Sequential 3rd brake light? On the spoiler, or up by the roof on the hatch? Sounds interesting.
In the spoiler. You know how it has 5 bulbs... The way I'm gonna set it up is so when you press the brake pedal it lights up from the center outward, then stops and holds 'till you let off the brakes, then it turns off from the outside in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ¡MR.AWESOME!
I was looking for connectors, and have a question. If it is rated at 3A Max, and 250V max, can I run any combination of volts and amps that doesn't exceed 750W? Or do I have to heed each rating separately?
Edit: I looked around and thought some more and I say no. Wire isn't rated for voltage and current. Just current. So the connectors shouldn't take into account voltage either. I don't know if I'm right, though, so please correct me if you know the answer.
I am not sure either, however, I did find this thing with a google search. It has to do with a switch though, not connectors. So, with it being for connectors that would nullify the whole bit regarding arcing and switch life... I would think, but, I'm not positive, that because the only way a "connector" can fail is by getting to hot, that you would be correct in what you said about any combination not exceeding 750 watts. I mean it makes sense... Hopefully someone can clarify for us...
I found a cheaper way to do what I want without having to know the connector current issue. But thanks though. One of the guys on the thread said no, my common sense says yes. Who knows. I'm just in the process of picking out the connectors and then I will order the parts, hook them together with a breadboard or something and test it all out. If it all works perfectly, then I will get a PCB made, make it look pretty and be done with it.
If it all works perfectly, then I will get a PCB made, make it look pretty and be done with it.
Are you talking about a full on custom CNC'd board, like where you design it with some software, send it to the company and they print out the boards for you all professional like. Or just a Radio Shack prototype board? I ask because I have looked around at the custom boards and they are really expensive. I was just wondering if you had maybe found a cheaper source...?
Yep. Custom. Pad2Pad is the company/software. It is really easy to use. I found out about them from emachineshop which is a simple cad program and then you send the file to them and they make it and send it to you. The two companies are related. Check 'em out, yo.
Edit: Well, at least i think it's cheap. I don't know what your definition of expensive is. A rough draft 4x4 inch board that I made on there cost $70. But I can get 2 or 3 for the same total price. The price only increases every 3 boards. So $25 isn't bad. The new design I have planned will be smaller, though, so the price should be lower.
Last edited by ¡MR.AWESOME!; 04-01-2009 at 12:57 AM.
Well, I am pretty cheap... But, yeah that Pad2Pad is significantly cheaper than I remember some of the other places being. Seems like they cater more to individual hobbyist kinds of people not big companies with huge production runs...
I kind of wanted to see if I could get some MemCal chip adapter things made, so I could keep one and sell the others for cheaper than the competition, but still make up the cost of having them made. Looks like Pad2Pad will be where I go for that when the time comes.
EDIT:
Hey, funny how stuff works sometimes. Talking about the brake thing again got me motivated to get a program written for the microcontroller. All it took was a little re-reading of datasheet and I think I finally got it. The software simulator shows it working just right... Now all I gotta do is figure out what all I want to do for external components and get an order put in at Mouser and I'll be on my way.
Last edited by BlueIroc-Z; 04-01-2009 at 04:28 AM.
In the spoiler. You know how it has 5 bulbs... The way I'm gonna set it up is so when you press the brake pedal it lights up from the center outward, then stops and holds 'till you let off the brakes, then it turns off from the outside in.
That would basically be like how the hazards work with a STS unit installed, except all the bulbs turn off together & just turn on sequentially.
So, once again, I have decided to make one of my projects harder. With all this talk of microcontrollers, I decided to use one. I'm hoping to give this project the flexibility to be used with different set ups, keep all the same features I currently have planned, and make it easier to use.
So far, I want it to be enabled (allow the button to actually do something) in one of three different ways.
1) With a 12V source
2) With a momentary switch
3) With a toggle switch
4) Permanently enabled so that it will always work
I also want three different button set-ups possible.
1) A single momentary switch
2) One momentary and one toggle switch
3) Two momentary switches
I think this is all possible and relatively easy to do. The coming days of lernen will reveal if that is so.
Yep, I know. Actually I think that's what gave me the idea initially, . Did you ever make a thread detailing how you make your STS unit (microcontroller programs, circuit diagrams, etc.)? I mean, I fully understand if that is proprietary and what not, given you are selling them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ¡MR.AWESOME!
So, once again, I have decided to make one of my projects harder. With all this talk of microcontrollers, I decided to use one. I'm hoping to give this project the flexibility to be used with different set ups, keep all the same features I currently have planned, and make it easier to use.
Hah, I was worried I might give you an idea like that. That's what happened to me, I was all like I'll do it the easy way with a schematic I found on the internet with like 3 different IC's that cost like 4 dollars + external components. Then, I found out about micros, and it was like why pay $4 and have a bunch of IC's hanging around, when you can have a fully programmable option for only like $.75 (not including the investment in a programmer ~$10).
The part that took forever was figuring out the programming nuances, like what all has to be setup which way in order for everything else to work the way you need it to. Anyway, if you need any help with that end of it, give me a shout. I'm by no means an expert (19yrs old with no electronic engineering background, just a self taught hobbyist), but having been through it once, I might be able to help with the little things that had given me problems.
So good luck. And, I must apologize as I kind of feel like I stole your thread a little with my whole brake light thing...
No don't worry about stealing it, hasn't been full on hijacked. Haha. Yea I'm only a 20 year old community college student. Skool has never really taught me much. TV and myself do most of my education. I started to teach myself some C++ awhile back and am taking Java in skool now, so I feel confident that I can program it. If I get stuck, though, I'll definitely call upon your help.
What are you using for a compiler? And what microcontroller are you gonna use?
Last edited by ¡MR.AWESOME!; 04-02-2009 at 12:48 AM.
No don't worry about stealing it, hasn't been full on hijacked. Haha. Yea I'm only a 20 year old community college student. Skool has never really taught me much. TV and myself do most of my education. I started to teach myself some C++ awhile back and am taking Java in skool now, so I feel confident that I can program it. If I get stuck, though, I'll definitely call upon your help.
What are you using for a compiler? And what microcontroller are you gonna use?
Man, I hear you when it comes to school.
For the micros, I do the programming in assembly language, using Microchip's own free software, MPLAB IDE. I have virtually no experience with higher level programming languages (tiny bit of BASIC, but that's it and that was unrelated to micros). So, for that reason assembly was easy enough to learn. Got a pretty darn good start from this tutorial, regarding assembly language and Microchip's microcontrollers.
As for the microcontroller itself, I had started on a PIC12F629 which comes in an 8 pin DIP package and has 5 I/O pins + 1 input only. Then I realized that I could do just fine with the PIC10F200 (their cheapest option), which is also an 8 pin DIP (2 pins are not used), but has only 3 I/O + 1 input only. The 10F200 is only like $0.64 @ Mouser.
Anyway, Microchip has a very large selection of all kinds of micros, bunch of different combinations of features and stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClickClickVroom
wow looks like it'd make a good cheap alarm setup. I'm tempted to get it. Looks sweet.
And That sounds awesome. You should sell a kit when you finish it :P
Yeah, that kit seems like a damn good deal for what all it does...
I got almost all the code written. I just have to learn how to add in some debounce delays. Once I get the programmer, I will test it out and get any bugs out. Then I'll buy all the other parts and do a "dress rehearsal", as I am calling it. Once I get that working perfectly, I will get the PCB made.
I kind of wanna sell this. I don't know if there would be any interest, though. Let me know what you think.
I'm not sure if I have the circuits around the PIC correct. If it looks messed up or just wrong, please tell how to fix it.
Last edited by ¡MR.AWESOME!; 04-06-2009 at 12:35 AM.
Reason: updated diagram
I'm not sure if I have the circuits around the PIC correct. If it looks messed up or just wrong, please tell how to fix it.
I don't know if it is wrong, persay, but I did notice some stuff that seems like it might be an issue. Like I say, this is without knowing the program that the pic is running...
Anyway, first thing is GP5. No matter what that input will always read as 1, given it is tied directly to Vdd.
Second, is GP1. As I remember, the PIC can only sink or source like 20mA, I am not sure that that is enough to activate a relay (Aux-Run/Bulb). Also, it is 5 volts, so you might want to check how that would work with the relay too.
Third, GP0. I'm not sure of the purpose of the "Start Relay." It appears to only be there to allow the signal from GP0 to pass to the Aux-Run/Start relay under certain conditions. But, the PIC doesn't supply enough current to warrant the use of a relay. Other than that, the same issue with GP1 applies.
That's all I got for now. Because I'm not totally acquainted with all aspects of your design, you might have reasons for some of that stuff that I don't know... But, I definitely welcome any explanation.
EDIT: Is one of your relays called the "Mom Enable" relay? j/k, just made me laugh a little...
Haha. Yeah. It's the Momentary Enable Switch. The software I use doesn't allow long labels. So I get creative and unclear.
The DPST relays that are driven by the pic are 5V and somewhere under 25mA, so no worries there.
Where did you hear that GP5 is always read as high? I can't find anything in the datasheet about it. I'm using the 12F508, if that makes any difference.
Did I do the voltage regulator right? I was iffy about that.
Last edited by ¡MR.AWESOME!; 04-05-2009 at 11:22 PM.
GP5 will always read high due to the way it is wired in the schem. It is tied directly to the +5 supply. (Maybe you meant to have it tied in on the other side of DIP (5)...?)
As for the v. reg., yeah that looks right, same as the example they show in the datasheet.
Last edited by BlueIroc-Z; 04-06-2009 at 12:10 AM.
Ohhh. Now I see. Good eyes. This is why I have people look over this stuff. Dip 4 would also not work the way I wanted with it wired like that. It's all fixed now, though.
I updated the design on the post with the second diagram. The one I just posted.
Last edited by ¡MR.AWESOME!; 04-06-2009 at 12:36 AM.
I wrote the code, bought most of the parts, and then thought that I needed a PIC with 8 I/O pins instead of the 10 I bought with only 6 I/O pins. The reason for that being I was thinking the VATS constantly reads the resistance while driving, and If the RFID were to lose signal while driving down the road, the car would shut off. Not good. So I needed to come up with a different way which involved more I/O pins. However, I asked in a separate thread whether the VATS is always looking for the right value and got mixed answers. So I don't yet know the true answer. It doesn't matter, though, as my new design is more robust and will be able to handle any 12V input better this way.
The circuit board is looking like it's going to be 1.75" by 3". Nice and small. The 40A relays will be external from the board so they don't take up ridiculous amounts of room and to get rid of any possibly harmful noise from them.
I was curious to see if anyone else sells pushbutton kits so I looked around the nets and webs of the inter-kind. The only decent one I could find that incorporates both RFID and pushbutton is going for $400!. That is straight wack. And the price wasn't even listed on the site. I had to search the name of it and found someone saying they emailed him and they weren't yet for sale but when they come out, yadda yadda yadda. It doesn't give you options, either. You have to use their setup. Here is the link if y'all are interested. http://www.auto-hub.com/stardrive_pu..._ignition.html
But of course, I'm going to think my design is better.
The only thing is that it truly is in this case. haha.
I'll post another update when shtuff happens, aight?
well when you figure it out, you should market it to us as an addon to the k9 system
I mean, you could always just bypass the vats, but that's not optimal for normal use... or safety.
__________________ 92 RS TBI with T-5.
Dynomax Catback,
Hi flow cat.
TBI MODS-In progress LT1 cam swap, ported heads, ported tb unit
Infiniti 6x9s, 4x6s, 2 pioneer 12's.
500 watt blaupunkt,
power acoustik 840 gothic series
Yeah. I do want to sell them. The way I have it set up now gives you a lot of options. You can have an external 12V source (ex: K9 RFID), a momentary switch, or a toggle switch to activate the VATS. You could also just jump the toggle switch pins and have VATS permanently disabled. And then on the other side of it, three start/acc button setups. A single pushbutton to turn on the accessories and to turn on the car. Two pushbuttons; one for accessories and one for starting. And lastly, a toggle and a pushbutton. The toggle for accessories and a pushbutton for starting.
The single pushbutton setup works likes this. You push it and the accessories come on. If you keep holding it, the starter comes on and once you let go, the starter turns off and your car stays on. You press it again and your car turns off.
If you don't want to turn the car on and just want to have the accessories running, you just push the button and let go before about .5 seconds. Press again to turn off the accessories. Or you can press and hold for longer than .5 seconds and the starter will come on and start the car.
The toggle and double pushbutton setups work pretty much as you imagine. Press/toggle the accessory one and then press the starter one. Turn off by pressing/toggling the accessory one.
How much do you think this is worth? How much would you guys want to pay (if at all) for this?
I got all the bugs worked out of the code today and it works perfectly in the test circuit. I just have to order the PCB's, make the box, put it all together and wire it in the car. I am positive it will work as planned.
If 1 or 2 people would like one of these first ones with no guarantee of it working in your car, pm me. I will only charge cost of materials and shipping to you.
Oh yea. I shrunk the PCB down to 1.5" x 2.75". The box will probably make it 2" x 3", though.
Last edited by ¡MR.AWESOME!; 04-25-2009 at 07:39 PM.
So a month later and I got the circuit boards. Come this weekend I will wire it up in the car and test it out. Still haven't picked out my pushbutton yet so I will probably just use whatever I have laying around for a bit.
So, once again, I have decided to make one of my projects harder. With all this talk of microcontrollers, I decided to use one. I'm hoping to give this project the flexibility to be used with different set ups, keep all the same features I currently have planned, and make it easier to use.
So far, I want it to be enabled (allow the button to actually do something) in one of three different ways.
1) With a 12V source
2) With a momentary switch
3) With a toggle switch
4) Permanently enabled so that it will always work
I also want three different button set-ups possible.
1) A single momentary switch
2) One momentary and one toggle switch
3) Two momentary switches
I think this is all possible and relatively easy to do. The coming days of lernen will reveal if that is so.
I have a question? All of my wiring is been taken out from engine compartment and under dash including the computor. I want to imitate all electronic system and replace with a points distributor and coil and use a push button to start and toggle switches. Can anyone help me with a wiring diagram and pics
lol...
j/k, just made me laugh a little... 
