momplo

Hi im brand new to this site. I recently bought one of my dream cars, a 1988 gta (sadly its auto, of course, and no t-top but hey i got a great deal on it) anyway everything was working top notch on it and one night when i got in, my system check said front lamp, i didnt pay attention, but when i got home, i realized my headlights would not come down. i could still turn them on and off but they would not come down. I took out the headlight control module, doesnt look like theres a thing wrong with it but im gonna clean up the contacts anyway. What do you guys think? if they both refuse to go down at the same time, i think its most likeley to be a fuse problem but hey im only 19. (sorry for my bad english, im quebecor) I hear a small buzzing noise when turning them on and off .

momplo

ok so i thoroughly cleaned the contacts (no more signs of corrosions, dirt or whatsoever) and it still doesnt work. I cant turn them up and down manually of course, but its a pain in the ***. I just bought a solder iron (i think thats how you call it) and i would like to learn how to spot something that needs to be resoldered. I dont think there are any burnt spots or any connections worn out, but on the side of the contacts, where you see f1, c5, d5, c2, z1 etc, i think im missing a piece where its written q6. I dont know if its important, but im a complete rookie at this kind of thing. thanks in advance.

momplo

Sorry i meant i CAN turn them up and down

Kyxxer

im not to sure but seeing no one else has tried to help you? are the headlights controlled by the vacuum? because if they area i would check your vacuum lines for a leak or a disconnected hose? and don't feel bad I'm 19 and totally new to the third gen world but I've learned a lot from these forums

momplo

I dont know what you mean by vaccum. If they were,, where exactly would this *vaccum* be located?

momplo

Ok New Updates: I didnt realize it, but my headlights actually come up, they just dont go down. (sorry) Now, i soldered most of the contacts on the module and the ones that had signs of old age but still the same result:go up, not down. So now its definitely not the control module. I bought a tester to check my fuses and i realized on the fuse pannel, under the steering wheel to the left, i have more than half of the fuses blown so im gonna replace every single one of them and see how that turns out. Idlike to know if there are any particular switches related to the headlights or the headlights control module and where are they located in the car. thanks

momplo

*Idlike to know if there are any particular switches related to the headlights or the headlights control module and where are they located in the car.* I meant fuses sorry

mrrman

not sure if this will help but on my 87 GTA there are 2 motors, one on each side of the lights...see this these can be adjusted by hand, if so you should be able to see the lights go up and down. If not there is a chance that the gears may be worn out..

momplo

yeah as i said before i can turn them up and down manually, the lgihts come on and off , they even come up but they just wont go down when i press the darn switch. I checked those 2 fuses under the dash, im pretty sure they are the headlights switch (please correct me if im wrong) but they arent blown up. Im absolutely lost i need help

fbodyalltheway

might have to replace the bushings in the motor tops down solutions sells a kit for it. I had to do it for my car. the problem I was having though was that my light would come up when I turned on just the parking lights instead of staying down. And I had isssues with them not going down right. Or you would by new motors from Rockauto.com

momplo

its great if i have to replace the bushings, but I dont know where they are,what they look like and how to see if they are broken. any idea where i could get a link to that kind of info? thanks

momplo

Ok so i have done some ressearch on those bushings you were talking about.Turns out mines are probably still good because i can manually turn them up and down which i could NOT do if the bushings were bad or disintegrated.When i turn the switch on, the motors spin and bring the lights up but when i push the switch to the off position, i hear no noises, no motors spinning or whatsoever. I even tried to switch on and off when my headlight control module was uncovered (but still connected, so i could see it) and it makes a little *click* when i turn them on and off, i can see the module motor move a little bit. Im completely lost.

Jeffs82TA

iTrader: (1)

I had thought if there was a blown tail-light fuse this would affect the operation of the headlights somehow. Is there any truth to this?

fbodyalltheway

What about the head light switch itself? Try jumping the motors directly in both directions to eliminate them as the problem.

soarestransam

Ok all u guys are telling this kid to go around the bush for the headlights motors there are plastic bushings inside that usually break go to autozone an get the ford window motor bushings they are the same exact size as the headlight motor bushing an repair ur headlights guarantee that is the problem no vac lines to the motor if u have power to both sides of the connector they its the bushings for sure that are busted inside

momplo

alright so there we go i checked the bushings and brace yourselves..... they were perfect !!!!! no even the smallest sign of worn out bushing, no dust around the gear,nothing. now im completely lost. any more suggestions would be appreciated, until then i will go change the fuses on on the fuse panel that have blown. ill be giving you some new when i do.

momplo

ok so summary of all ive done:checked the motors,theyre fine. Checked the headlight control module, its fine and it clicks everytime i turn the switch on and off. Checked the headlight fuses under the dash next to the steering wheel,theyre fine. Today i replaced many fuses on the fuse panel that would not light up when i test them, and weird thing, they still dont light up when i test them.they are brand new and im not having any problems with my car, so is it normal or are they not working? could this be related to my headlights problem in any way? Im seriously getting pissed off at this, and it seems that all the things others have tried arent working for me, and idlike to remember you that my motors BOTH refused to go down at the same time and they always worked perfectly before that night. help me

Kyxxer

Ok! So since you have tried just about everything possible! U should start to call around to some local shops, chev/GM dealers to see if there's someone there that knows a thing or two about your problem? I can almost garuntee that someone who used to own or work on them will know what's wrong with it!

momplo

no better suggestions
??

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Yes. According to the Firebird Service Manual, if your tail light fuse is blown, the headlights will not go down. OP hasn't yet posted if he tested and confirmed that the tail light fuse is good. Everyone that owns one of these cars and plans to do repair work on them such as this should own a Service Manual for their specific year and model. They are available new online at www.helminc,com or used on eBay. A Haynes or Chilton manual are good if you if you have a table that needs to be leveled. That's about all I'd use them for. The Firebird Service Manual has a diagnostic checklist that you can follow to sort out problems such as this and also contains the illustrations showing the locations of components and wiring schematic.

Good luck with the repair. Keep us posted with the eventual solution.

Lon

momplo

thanks for the suggestion, but i replaced all the fuses and it STILL doesnt work if any of you has an other idea speak up

Liboicl

I hate to revive this old topic, but I ran into a similar problem and after some testing it turns out it was my headlight switch. The off terminal inside the switch was corroded and wasn't getting a connection.

I suggest to the OP, if he happens to look at this thread again, to test the voltage going to the isolation relay. Disconnect the two plugs that go into it, mine where covered in gunk and it took a lot of effort. I suggest unmounting the relay before attempting to remove the plugs. Both plugs have a lock, push down until it stays, and then pull to remove.

One side will have a black, yellow, & white (mine looked more like a pale yellow, but the wiring diagram says white) wire. With the switch on, the voltage between yellow & black (ground) should be approximately 12V. With the switch off, the voltage between white & black (ground) should be approximately 12V. Based upon the previous discussion, I assume this last test will fail. If so, it is most definitely a wiring problem. I suggest you also take the headlight switch out and test continuity (or resistance). With the switch off, the bottom and top terminals on the back of the switch should be connected. If this fails then you have a faulty headlight switch.

While you have the plugs out you can also test your motors to be on the safe side. Turn the headlight on and connect, with a spare piece of wire, the yellow to the pink (up) or blue or blue/white (down). If the motors are good you should be able to move it back and forth this way successfully.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Yes. Of course you read this in your Firebird Service Manual, right? Check the taillight fuse.

Lon

Dan Hubbard

Jumping into the fray here... I just picked up an '88 T/A. Similar problem. Headlights wouldn't go down. Checked the taillight fuse. Blown. Replaced it and driver's side headlight goes down now, but not the passenger side. I've confirmed the motor on the pass. side works in both directions by connecting the 3-wire setup to a battery charger and actuating the motor. Here's where it gets weird.

Both the driver's side and passenger's side headlight motor connections from the harness running above the AC condensor are 2-wire connectors. There is one green and one gray wire on each connector (looks like 14-16 ga). The green wire has 12V on it when the headlights are in the down position, and the gray has 12V on it when they are up. The PO had connected 2 of the 3 headlight motor wires (tan and gray) to the green and the other (green) to the gray on the driver's side (the side that works in both directions). The passenger side had only 2 of the 3 wires connected, one to the green and one to the gray. The 3rd wire (tan) was laying loose. I could not for the life of me get the motor to work in the down direction regardless of the combination of wires I tried.

Well, after struggling with that for awhile, testing with the battery charger, I discovered that I needed to put (+) voltage on the green headlight motor wire, and (-) on the gray to make it go up. Putting (+) on the tan wire and (-) on the green made it go down. I'm thinking that the tan is "down" and grey is "up" while the green is somehow common. But how in the world does that get accomplished with only 2 wires? Am I missing something here? Should I have only 2 wires on the headlight motors (meaning the motors were replaced with the wrong motor)? I checked out a "spare" set from an '86 F-Bird and they are 3-wire with a 3-wire connector (green, gray, and purple).

Anyone have any clue what's going on here???

Dan Hubbard

Just looked at some replacement motors on Rockauto.com and see they appear to be 2-wire connectors. Do I need new motors? If so, does anyone want to trade me for a pair?

Rob's 92 gta

I don't know how much different they are (Mine is a 92 gta).But I had the same problem. I tested each motor by first unplugging them and used a bat. to test each one.(they are two wire motors) They both worked up so I reversed the wires and they went down. I worked at a body shop and found my car a seondary fuse block for the head lights. It was on the driver side of the car but on the right side of the steering col. If you keep the keys in the car and open the door you will hear a buzzer . The fuses were right above it. I had to unpluge the buzzer to find the fuses.There were one for each side. I checked them and one was blown.(it could have happened while testing) I replaced it but the lights still wouldn't go down so I asked my friend if I could use his mod (from a 89 firebird )in my car. and the lights went up and down. I put this here because My mod. looked like new but was still bad. So don't over look the head light switch or the mod. just because they look good don't mean they are good. Hope this helps.

Rob's 92 gta

My 89 firebird did the same thing and it was a bad mod. It's on the fire wall by the wiper motor.I would try testing there to see if you have power out of the mod to each headlight motor to make sure the mod. is good

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

If you go hunting for a headlight control module, be aware there were two. 1987-89 model year and the 1990-2002 model year (obviously much easier to get since it was used for so many years). Both modules look the same externally.

Lon

Dan Hubbard

Module is good. Green wire has 12.5V on both sides (passenger and driver) when headlights "off." Gray wire has 12.5V on both sides when headlights are on.

When I look at the body wiring diagrams on the austin third gen website, it appears to me that the headlight motors should have a two-wire connector. So, back to my original question, which was regarding 2-wire vs 3-wire headlight connections, it would seem to me the PO installed 3-wire motors where there should be 2-wire motors. Can anyone verify what an '88 T/A should have for headlight motors? 2- or 3-wire connectors?

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

1987 thru 1992 firebird have a two-wire motor.

Lon

Dan Hubbard

Awesome Lon! Thanks for that info.

So now I have (4) 3-wire headlight motors and all work just fine, but I need (2) 2-wire headlight motors. I would be willing to trade the 4 for 2, if anyone's interested.

Dan Hubbard

Happy ending to a drawn-out problem. I fixed the headlight problem on Sunday. They go up and go down with no problems. The car is an '88 (2-wire motors), and the PO had installed '86 (3-wire) motors on it. The 3-wire motors worked properly on in the "up" direction, due to the wiring. Turns out, he still had one of the old motors which he gave to me, plus another set of pre-'87 motors and headlight assemblies. In the meantime, I bought a set of headlight assemblies from a '90 Formula ($40!).

Took apart the old motor from the '88 and found the bushings were in little pieces. Same for the bushings from the '90 Formula. I replaced the bushings from the '90 motors, installed those motors in my '88, and everything is good! And, I sold the internals of one motor to someone here on 3rd gen, sold a set of headlight assemblies to a different member, and sold a second set of headlight assemblies on eBay. I have a pair of 82-86 motors (work great!) and a set of headlight assemblies without motors from the '90 Formula left to sell.

So, to recap it. I spent $50.30 on 2 headlight assemblies and 6 bushings, and sold $160 worth to others, with another $50 or so worth of stuff to sell. And, my car's headlights work just fine. Not saying I'm an expert on these yet, but getting close. All-in-all, I probably put in 5-6 hours under the hood diagnosing, changing, replacing, adjusting, etc.