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Has anyone had an experience like this... When I got my GTA six years ago, the battery wasn't in great shape. Replaced it with an Interstate in 2018. Two years later, needed another battery. I actually at first replaced that with a Die Hard, but it was defective from the start and I ended up with another Interstate. Another two years go by to 2022 and that Interstate is shot. Bought another. Here in 2024 last week, I couldn't start the car. Yep, another Interstate battery gone bad.
So I got two years each out of three, not-cheap Interstate batteries. My mechanic, who can take apart and reassemble third gens with his eyes closed, said that with every battery make (made by only about three total companies), you get good ones and bad ones. He recommends AC/Delco.
My GM cars that came with AC/Delco batteries, when I've kept them long enough to wear out a battery, have gone over seven years on the OEM battery. My other car, an ATS, is over 5 years and running strong.
Has anyone else experienced this with batteries? Is it the battery? Could there be something wrong with my GTA that is causing this? I had my mechanic do a thorough, overall inspection of my car (not just for electrical, just everything in general for my peace of mind with a 36-year old car) and he didn't see anything wrong. The battery draw was something like 30-40 milliamps (if I'm using the right term), which he said is perfectly acceptable.
Sounds odd, I've never had a battery go bad over 2 years and I've installed quite a few over 50 years of working on all types of vehicles and installing all brands. 30 milliamps is the max recommended parasitic draw if it's measured correctly. When you say go bad do you mean it will not accept a charge?
In this latest case, my mechanic said that the battery was "completely shorted out across the top." Whatever that means.
I actually had the car towed, thinking it was the starter or starter solenoid. I couldn't even get it jumped with my jump starter, which has always worked in the past.
If this car is in regular use, the batteries shouldn't be dying from sitting. Any kind of parasitic draw that would destroy (several) batteries within two years time each should be bad enough that the car wouldn't start after sitting a few days, does this happen with a known good battery in place? Another thought is,with a good, properly charged battery in it, what is the voltage at the battery (NOT the dash gauge) when it's running at 1000 RPM? What you describe kinda sounds like a car that could be overcharging it's battery, literally boiling it to death.
PS, while I realize all manufacturing processes do produce duds, I can't believe for one minute there is anyone on earth with this kind of bad luck:
"So I got two years each out of three, not-cheap Interstate batteries"
If this car is in regular use, the batteries shouldn't be dying from sitting. Any kind of parasitic draw that would destroy (several) batteries within two years time each should be bad enough that the car wouldn't start after sitting a few days, does this happen? Another thought is,with a good, properly charged battery in it, what is the voltage at the battery (NOT the dash gauge) when it's running at 1000 RPM? What you describe kinda sounds like a car that could be overcharging it's battery, literally boiling it to death.
PS, while I realize all manufacturing processes do produce duds, I can't believe for one minute there is anyone on earth with this kind of bad luck:
"So I got two years each out of three, not-cheap Interstate batteries"
It seems like it has to be something with the car to me, too.
I typically take the car out an average of twice a week. Each time I'd say that I drive an average of 20 miles. I've averaged 2,100 miles a year for the six years that I've owned it.
I only know the dash reading, which is consistent and normal. (Hard to tell the exact number with the digital dash. Looks to be 13-14 volts.) I'll have to put a meter on it while it's running. Maybe that's it.
Only recently had the car been slightly reluctant to start if I hadn't driven it in a week. Less time in colder weather. But until recently when I suppose the battery had developed problems, that was not a problem.
Story reads like the batteries are losing life from improper state of charge.
Possible causes:
(1) Car is not driven enough to properly maintain the batteries at high state of charge. A battery tender would fix that. Flooded lead acid batteries hate to remain at a partial state of charge, and also hate to be partially discharged on a frequent basis. The plates will deteriorate, causing the battery to lose capacity over time. If the car is a fair weather driver (no winter), then a loss of battery capacity would go unnoticed by the driver until the battery is on the edge of death.
(2) Battery tender that is overcharging. A better battery tender with proper float charge would fix that. Slightly overcharging will cause evaporation and loss of fluid until a cell dries up enough that the battery fails.
(3) Too much parasitic load on the battery with key off. It results in same thing as Item (1) but with different root cause, and different fix.
Item 1 can be fixed with change of habit. Item 2 is better equipment. And Item 3 would require a repair job of some sort, although using a battery tender possibly could mask the issue if the drain on battery is small enough.
In this latest case, my mechanic said that the battery was "completely shorted out across the top." Whatever that means.
I don't know what that means either. Battery naturally has a very small internal resistance and the mechanic probably has no way to measure that or even interpret the results.
Story reads like the batteries are losing life from improper state of charge.
Possible causes:
(1) Car is not driven enough to properly maintain the batteries at high state of charge. A battery tender would fix that. Flooded lead acid batteries hate to remain at a partial state of charge, and also hate to be partially discharged on a frequent basis. The plates will deteriorate, causing the battery to lose capacity over time. If the car is a fair weather driver (no winter), then a loss of battery capacity would go unnoticed by the driver until the battery is on the edge of death.
(2) Battery tender that is overcharging. A better battery tender with proper float charge would fix that. Slightly overcharging will cause evaporation and loss of fluid until a cell dries up enough that the battery fails.
(3) Too much parasitic load on the battery with key off. It results in same thing as Item (1) but with different root cause, and different fix.
Item 1 can be fixed with change of habit. Item 2 is better equipment. And Item 3 would require a repair job of some sort, although using a battery tender possibly could mask the issue if the drain on battery is small enough.
I guess there is an Item (4) too, which is charging voltage at battery (with engine running) is not correct. I assumed your mechanic checked that. Although, you want to check across the battery terminals, not the alternator. All that matters is what the battery sees.
I guess there is an Item (4) too, which is charging voltage at battery (with engine running) is not correct. I assumed your mechanic checked that. Although, you want to check across the battery terminals, not the alternator. All that matters is what the battery sees.
I don't have the knowledge to judge my mechanic, but he seems to know his stuff. He's got two of his own 3rd gen Firebirds in front of his garage, and has about a dozen other personal vehicles in various states of assembly scattered about his shop and lot. Very much a tinkerer with his own vehicles. Definitely seems to know what he's doing in most respects. After he informed me that my issue wasn't what I thought (the starter) and inspecting the rest of the car, he went back to check for abnormal parasitic drains and didn't find anything.
Of your 4 options, I think #1 may be the most likely. I do drive my GTA regularly and year-round, but a battery tender sounds like a good idea.
Get something other then an Interstate. Not sure what is going on with them, but look at the warranty period. Decades ago and not so decades ago Interstate was all I would use. Came with 6 - 7 year warranties, and never needed to use it.
Then about 4 - 5 years ago the warranty periods began to shrink. Down to 5 years, then 4 years, Huh?
Once they hit a 2 year warranty their time was up. Went to a different brand.
Get something other then an Interstate. Not sure what is going on with them, but look at the warranty period. Decades ago and not so decades ago Interstate was all I would use. Came with 6 - 7 year warranties, and never needed to use it.
Then about 4 - 5 years ago the warranty periods began to shrink. Down to 5 years, then 4 years, Huh?
Once they hit a 2 year warranty their time was up. Went to a different brand.
RBob.
There's an AC/Delco under the hood now. I'll see how it goes. They've always lasted a very long time as OEM equipment in my GM cars. I'd have bought one the last time around in 2022, but I didn't see any around here in the auto parts stores. But my current mechanic has them.
I will second Rbob on no Interstate, I am replacing a 6 year old one this spring but won't buy another. There are a lot of ppl on other forums, mostly bob is the oil guy who have had a lot of problems with newer Interstates...your probably much better off with the AC Delco. I am going to replace mine this spring with a Everstart Maxx which in my region looks exactly like the top tier Eastern/Penn batteries which seem to be very good along with Walmart is everywhere I would think warranty/issues should be minimal. Also, they are nearly $100 less than parts store batteries.
A battery tender is cheap insurance too, I run one all winter on my GTA in storage and seems to help add life to the battery. Also a digital battery tester is handy, I found a decent one from TopDon that is easy to use and seems to work great so far. So much better to do your own testing than rely on the parts store etc.
I think nowadays you really don't know what you are getting. The same battery manufacturer makes the batteries and places the customers label on it. The same battery could be sold be an A/C delco or interstate or qwick start. You can't tell the quality of a battery from the label.
I think the key to a quality battery is in the CCA rating. With the higher cranking amps the less the battery drains power to start the car. Of course this is when the battery works the hardest.
My example, my riding mower, which only starts once a week or less and has a suckass charge system. I went to the battery store. grabbed one from the shelf. I bought a Duracell for it. It lasted 1 year. When I went back to get a new one the guy at the counter asked the HP of the mower. I told him it was 19. That is when he said the CCA was too low for that HP engine. The original Duracell was a 225 CCA. The one I exchanged for was 320 and also Duracell. 2.5 yrs later and the mower still starts every time and I don't have a tender on it.
Same for my third gen. I have a Napa battery that is the 650 CCA, class 75. I remember it replaced a 450 CCA battery. The 450 CCA was less than 3 yrs old, the 650 CCA is going strong almost 5 yrs later. The Napa Battery in my truck is a 750CCA and its in the 7th year and still working in this Florida heat!
The odds of that many batteries failing on you that quickly are pretty slim; there's something else going on with the electrical system in your car. Keep in mind that not all mechanics are well-versed in troubleshooting electrical problems, and the fact that your guy doesn't seem to think your unusually long list of battery failures is odd is a red flag, at least to me.
The odds of that many batteries failing on you that quickly are pretty slim; there's something else going on with the electrical system in your car. Keep in mind that not all mechanics are well-versed in troubleshooting electrical problems, and the fact that your guy doesn't seem to think your unusually long list of battery failures is odd is a red flag, at least to me.
I think nowadays you really don't know what you are getting. The same battery manufacturer makes the batteries and places the customers label on it. The same battery could be sold be an A/C delco or interstate or qwick start. You can't tell the quality of a battery from the label.
I think the key to a quality battery is in the CCA rating. With the higher cranking amps the less the battery drains power to start the car. Of course this is when the battery works the hardest.
My example, my riding mower, which only starts once a week or less and has a suckass charge system. I went to the battery store. grabbed one from the shelf. I bought a Duracell for it. It lasted 1 year. When I went back to get a new one the guy at the counter asked the HP of the mower. I told him it was 19. That is when he said the CCA was too low for that HP engine. The original Duracell was a 225 CCA. The one I exchanged for was 320 and also Duracell. 2.5 yrs later and the mower still starts every time and I don't have a tender on it.
Same for my third gen. I have a Napa battery that is the 650 CCA, class 75. I remember it replaced a 450 CCA battery. The 450 CCA was less than 3 yrs old, the 650 CCA is going strong almost 5 yrs later. The Napa Battery in my truck is a 750CCA and its in the 7th year and still working in this Florida heat!
The number of CCAs with my failed Interstate batteries definitely is not the problem. That number was more than enough. The specs were fine.
If the problem is with the batteries themselves, It's a quality issue, not CCA.
Despite what my mechanic thinks and even though I think he's really good, I do tend to think it has to be something with the car. I can't be this unlucky to get that many defective batteries. The car is driven year-round. Not huge miles, but I averaged 2,100 miles a year spaced pretty evenly throughout the year (40-50 miles a week typically). I'd think that would be enough to keep the battery fully charged.
The weather has been rainy and the car is in its third straight day of not being driven. Maybe I'll let it go for a week and see if there's any starting issues.
A few relevant matters have changed:
-The Dollar... Inflation/ The accepted Value of, is at an all time record. Everything right now cost more Money.
-The Quality of Trusted Brands... Companies/ Products that have long standed as High Quality, are pinching pennies and have become poor quality Products.
The Vehicle's Battery is one of the Components that I feel should never be Skimped on... Save Money in other places.
Paying the high price for a High Quality, Long Lasting and Reliable Battery is well worth the Cost!
Sadly I do not Trust in the Mixed-Results for Quality with GM/ ACDelco Batteries.
With Today's Batteries the way that they are, I would only recommend Two Products...
That's XS-Power Batteries, and Odyssey Batteries.
I used to live in Pittsburgh. Now I like in Hilton Head, SC. Summers get hot in Pittsburgh, but nothing like the extended heat that we have here. In summer there are few cool days, with high temperatures over 80 degrees for long stretches of time. My semi-detached garage is not air conditioned. We have the occasional day in winter where it doesn't hit 40 degrees, but overall in a winter we likely have fewer than 10 days where the high temperature doesn't get to at least 50 degrees.
Maybe between the hot temperatures and driving only 2,100 miles a years - though it is driven regularly year round - batteries just won't last that long. This may just be the new normal for me. My ATS is over 5 years old with the original battery, but it's been driven an average of 8,000 miles a year. The ATS battery is also in the trunk, not under the hood.
From AAA:
Where you live affects your car battery
Heat facilitates the chemical reaction car batteries use to generate electricity, but it also increases the rate of battery degradation. In cooler northern climates, a battery may last five years or longer, but in hot southern locales, a car battery will typically last approximately three years.
Batteries reside in a harsh under-the-hood environment where temperatures can easily exceed 200 degrees Fahrenheit in hot weather. To combat this heat, automakers may mount the battery in an isolated area, install a heat shield over the battery, or relocate the battery outside the engine compartment, often under the back seat or trunk floor.
I used to live in Pittsburgh. Now I like in Hilton Head, SC. Summers get hot in Pittsburgh, but nothing like the extended heat that we have here. In summer there are few cool days, with high temperatures over 80 degrees for long stretches of time. My semi-detached garage is not air conditioned. We have the occasional day in winter where it doesn't hit 40 degrees, but overall in a winter we likely have fewer than 10 days where the high temperature doesn't get to at least 50 degrees.
Maybe between the hot temperatures and driving only 2,100 miles a years - though it is driven regularly year round - batteries just won't last that long. This may just be the new normal for me. My ATS is over 5 years old with the original battery, but it's been driven an average of 8,000 miles a year. The ATS battery is also in the trunk, not under the hood.
From AAA:
Where you live affects your car battery
Heat facilitates the chemical reaction car batteries use to generate electricity, but it also increases the rate of battery degradation. In cooler northern climates, a battery may last five years or longer, but in hot southern locales, a car battery will typically last approximately three years.
Batteries reside in a harsh under-the-hood environment where temperatures can easily exceed 200 degrees Fahrenheit in hot weather. To combat this heat, automakers may mount the battery in an isolated area, install a heat shield over the battery, or relocate the battery outside the engine compartment, often under the back seat or trunk floor.
I live in South Florida and have for almost all my life. I have gone through alot of batteries in a bunch of vehicles over this time. My car gets about 1800 miles a year put on it and sits in a non A/C garage just like you. I don't think the change in climate would do it. Maybe to the battery that was in the car when you moved but not with the replacement batteries. I also don't use a tender.
Does the car have any aftermarket equipment like radio, alarm or other gizmos? That's the first place to look for a problem. Your car is killing your batteries. I have used a graphing multimeter to monitor a vehicle for a parasitic draw overnight to see if something is powering up intermittently.
I'd been leaning towards the idea that something in the car must be draining the battery . It does seem rather improbable that I've gotten three bad Interstate batteries. But after having read from AAA that batteries in warmer climates typically last three years, maybe it was the batteries. I drive 2100 miles a year, pretty evenly space throughout the year, but maybe that isn't enough to keep the battery fully charged. So between climate and light usage, maybe it's shortening the battery life.
I got a new battery last Thursday. I didn't drive the car until yesterday, wondering if I'd see any weakness after a full week that included some cold nights, and I don't know how well-charged the new battery was. It started right up, very strong, without the slightest hesitation. If there was a parasitic drain, I think I'd have seen some weakness, since the drain would always be there no matter how new or old the battery is.
This happened to me once and it was the horn relay was stuck on. Someone before me had cut the wire to the horn. Just a thought acted just like this. Good luck finding the draw.
...what is the voltage at the battery (NOT the dash gauge) when it's running at 1000 RPM? What you describe kinda sounds like a car that could be overcharging it's battery, literally boiling it to death.
I have had great results with ACDelco batteries. I replaced the battery in my '84 Trans AM shortly after I purchased it, with an ACDELCO. The warranty is 2 years & same battery that I installed in my '1972 Buick GS back 2012 was 5 years. The battery in the GS was an ACDELCO installed in 2002 & lasted 10 years. I replaced it with the same model ACDELCO Battery. It lasted until winter of 2022 when the alternator shorted & killed the battery.
I keep a "Battery Tender" attached to my T/A & Chevy Colorado when not in use - fall, winter, spring. In summer no tender. The battery in my Colorado is original
The motto is that the batteries are not make like they used to & thus made to fail - called built in obsolescence. Manufacturers cannot make any money if product lasts to long.
That's funny. I had a new ACDelco Gold battery in my van. Lasted 2 years, and 100% dead. China made junk. Replaced with an East Penn battery via NAPA, Made in the USA.
FYI...I noticed the other day...where was I....TSC maybe...that the ACDelco batteries on the shelf were made somewhere other than China...Taiwan, Philippines...not here.
I don't know what you guys are doing that is killing your batteries. I've been buying Parts Plus batteries for many years now. Not that I think they are the best but because they are the closest. My oldest Parts Plus battery is 9 years old. It's in my backhoe that only gets used about 4 times a year. When it's below 45* it takes a lot of cranking to get that diesel started. No problem for the battery. I always get at least 6-7 years out of all my batteries. Pickup, Camaro, tractor, backhoe, lawnmower, 4 wheeler, motorcycle. Good luck.
When Willard & Exide manufactured batteries many years ago, the batteries were quality & lasted for years. But when China gets into the business, the quality becomes junk.
With the fall of quality, warranties are reduced.
Damn shame.
That's funny. I had a new ACDelco Gold battery in my van. Lasted 2 years, and 100% dead. China made junk. Replaced with an East Penn battery via NAPA, Made in the USA.
FYI...I noticed the other day...where was I....TSC maybe...that the ACDelco batteries on the shelf were made somewhere other than China...Taiwan, Philippines...not here.
I'm going to remember this about East Penn for sure, the next time I need a battery in any car. I'd rather buy an American-made battery. Even beyond being American-made, how long does it take to ship them from China, Taiwan, or The Philippines and get them to the US? In what climate conditions? Exposure to ocean salt air?
The cars that I've bought new and that I've kept long enough to need a new battery always lasted over 7 years with GM AC/Delco original batteries. Except one. That one was a Jeep, and the battery died after four years.
Side note about the alternator and American-mad parts: It's running a pretty steady 13.7 -- 13.9 volts on the meter. It's the original alternator. When my first Interstate battery died in 2020, I immediately assumed the then 32-year old alternator must be the problem since I never thought a battery would die that quickly. I stupidly bought and installed a new alternator, then discovered that this wasn't the problem. But, I left the new alternator in the car, keeping the original as a backup. The new alternator was AC/Delco, made in China. 18 months later, I started having electrical issues and the car sounded a bit off. Went under the hood and could tell immediately that the new alternator wasn't spinning freely and was the source of the new sound. Pulled that and re-installed the original, now 36-year old alternator, American-made, and that is still running fine.
If you want East Penn batteries go to O'Reilly or Sam's Club. O'Reilly Super Start or Sam's Club Duracell are East Penn batteries. I've been buying Walmart batteries the last few years and have no problems, they're close by and everywhere when you travel and so far they've been good batteries. Fuel injection and electronic ignition cured most of the battery problems, most killed batteries cranking carbureted engines.
If you want East Penn batteries go to O'Reilly or Sam's Club. O'Reilly Super Start or Sam's Club Duracell are East Penn batteries. I've been buying Walmart batteries the last few years and have no problems, they're close by and everywhere when you travel and so far they've been good batteries. Fuel injection and electronic ignition cured most of the battery problems, most killed batteries cranking carbureted engines.
East Penn is my preferred battery manufacturer of choice too, I’m pretty sure in my region that Walmart Everstart Batteries are East Penn.
I've had a duracell battery (from batteries plus) in my car going on 10 years now. The car is definitely a weekend/nice weather vehicle, but I don't keep it on a tender. I just unhook the battery when I know I'm parking for longer than 24 hours.
I just started it for the first time since November. Hooked the battery up, two pumps of the gas, crank and boom, started like a charm.
I've always had good experiences with duracell car batteries, plus Batteries Plus gives a 5 year warranty on them.
honestly I don't expect any parts store batteries to last more than 2 years, especially in a car that sits for days/weeks.
Tyler, I'm sorry if that's been your experience. I'll tell you this...the old school ACDelco in my T/A is the same battery that was in the car (not new even then) when I bought the car. And March 2024 is my 10th anniv. of owning my car. It is admittedly on it's last legs, and probably a little harder on the alternator than I'd like. I plan to replace it for this coming season.
I am religious about keeping a battery tender on it when not in use. If you have that option, I would heartily recommend it. I have a Battery Tender on my riding mower (on it's 4th season), one shared by my van and Saturn, one on my motorhome battery, and one maintaining the twin batteries in my Suburban. I find that I get excellent life from my batteries under this regimen. The only failure was the aforementioned china made ACDelco. Even a Battery Tender couldn't save that sad PRC POS.
Tyler, I'm sorry if that's been your experience. I'll tell you this...the old school ACDelco in my T/A is the same battery that was in the car (not new even then) when I bought the car. And March 2024 is my 10th anniv. of owning my car. It is admittedly on it's last legs, and probably a little harder on the alternator than I'd like. I plan to replace it for this coming season.
I am religious about keeping a battery tender on it when not in use. If you have that option, I would heartily recommend it. I have a Battery Tender on my riding mower (on it's 4th season), one shared by my van and Saturn, one on my motorhome battery, and one maintaining the twin batteries in my Suburban. I find that I get excellent life from my batteries under this regimen. The only failure was the aforementioned china made ACDelco. Even a Battery Tender couldn't save that sad PRC POS.
my trans am has been on a battery tender for the past year now at this point and all is still well. that car sits more than it’s driven so it’s understandable a battery will die prematurely in that situation without a tender.
i’ve experienced this with other cars that i daily drive as well, however. usually around the two-three year mark the battery will get weak in the winter and won’t start one morning, i can jump them but they typically won’t make it much longer. autozone and car quest batteries in particular, not sure which of the main battery suppliers they use. i need to get a battery for my harley this week so ill be doing some research on brands, i also let the harley sit thru the winter without a tender so that battery is my fault as well.
i will say that the battery in my bmw has made it through the 6 years i’ve owned the car. its needed a jump start only once on a cold winter morning. every winter that passes i tell myself it wont make it another year but it keeps surprising me. i believe it is a bmw labeled battery.
Just picked up a new battery today after the old Interstate tested poorly, you can’t beat the Duracell batteries at Sam’s club. 690 cca and 850 cranking amps for $139. They are also made by East Penn which seem to have high quality batteries. That same battery at a parts store is easily over $200.
I wanted a Everstart Maxx as mentioned previously but Walmart had none and this is the same battery at same price. With a battery tender I’m hoping to get a good long life out of it.
If you want to be a nerd then you could periodically track battery State of Charge (SOC) by measuring Open Circuit Voltage (OCV). There is a relationship between OCV and SOC. You can read more about Flooded Lead Acid batteries at battery university, https://batteryuniversity.com/articl...oogle_vignette
With engine off, turn on the headlights for about 30 seconds to strip away any surface charge from the battery. Then disconnect battery from car and measure voltage across the battery terminals. Use the chart in the link above to estimate the battery State of Charge. It will almost never be at 100% SOC, but preferably above 90% (thumb in air engineering )
I'll probably laugh at you if you actually track SOC but don't let me stop your fun.
03-02-2024, 09:43 AM
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