Kiwi-85IROC

G'day...the days are numbered for my 305TPI.

Kiwi dollar vs US exchange rates are good at the mo and I'm about a week away from ordering a crate motor from the states.
I'm going with a ZZ4 350 based motor combo and aiming for a 430HP setup. Something like this Edelbrock's "Performer RPM E-Tec 9.5:1 Engine 430 Horsepower " or the same sort of package from Scoggin-D etc.


I have a couple of questions:

1)Edelbrock crate motors: Are they worth the exrta money vs say a Scoggin-Dickey/Autocenter motor equivalent?

2)Should I run an EFI setup like Modded TPIor (TPIS Mini Ram or lingenfelter Super Ram) or go straight for a carb setup? Is carb more straight forward ? I'm thinkin that all the muckin around I'd have to do to get an EFI setup to work ie computer changes/injectors/etc etc might just make an esy thing into a large headache vs strapping a 800cfm carb on and chuckin the computer away.

Opinions please :-)

I know that Edelbrock crates come fairly complete but I'm not too worried if I need to buy seperate bits to make an engie up.

305RSlc

I would stay away from the edelbrock crate motors. Over priced and from what I have heard aren't worth even close to what they are priced for. Stick with SDPC. If you are going with the ZZ4 short block, or the equivilent, go with something that has the fast burn heads, and get the LT4 hot cam. That is a proven 430hp right there. I dunno about going carb or efi though. I would do efi just because it is what I know more. However, if you knew how to change a jet quicker than turning on a computer I would go carb. If you know what you are doing, either one will be easy enough, and each one has its drawbacks. If you have the money, get yourself the mini ram since you already have the tpi harness in your car. You'll see some really nice numbers from that.

Kiwi-85IROC

Anyone else?

90FormulaWS6

Carb and edelbrock crates arent anything special... carb is definitely easier to tune than EFI and if i were you i wouldnt run TPI cuz TPI is garbage compared to mini/super ram

Derek

wm_sorg

I would look into GM performance crate engines. I would also go with EFI over carb. Since you already have TPI you have the fuel lines, relays, etc. A Mini Ram or Modded TPI setup will give you more tuneability and require less maintenance not to mention better fuel economy.

jmiller

he he Wayne mate:
If you want a ZZ4 buy it from GM, that's what I did, Scoggin-Dickey has the best price. Edelbrock is too much money. New Zealand is a different story, how bad is it for you to get GM stuff?

I would also stay with TPI. Put a mini-ram on it and kick ***, or mod your stock stuff and still kick ***.

Kiwi-85IROC

Few problemo's I have with keeping the TPI are :

1) Noone here really knows a whole about them.
2) Mine is an 85 so the ECM is the oldest version.
3) If I was to go with EFI I'd probably go for the Holley Stealth Ram coz I like the TQ spread, the cost for the whole kit is like 2K US.
4) I'll probably go for the GM performance parts ZZ383 425HP/460TQ

1) Motor $4699 US
2) EFI $2200 US
3) Diff $2200 US
4) Trans $1700 US

TOTAL $10799 US

NZ Dollars $18982 incl tax.

Now thats enough to make a man cry...NZ $$$ sucks big time :lala:

jmiller

That's an awful lot of money!
All you need is some good books on TPI and a service manual, you can figure it out yourself. Whenever you run into something you need help with, this board has some pretty good people that can answer your questions.
I have a spare 86' TPI system I plan on putting on my son's 91' Chevy truck (its TBI now). All I'm going to do is find an 87'-89' ECM for about $100.00 to get around the problem of it being an 86'. I've done it before, it works fine. I think the ZZ4 is up to about $3400.00 now, I paid $3100.00 for mine 4 years ago. But the shipping must be really expensive for you.
Good luck Wayne

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

Go carbed and save yourself a lot of $$$. Edelbrock crate engines are GM's ZZ4 shortblocks with the Edelbrock name stamped all over it, not worth the $$$.

I went with the 350HO crate engine, an edelbrock performer for vortecs intake and a Barry Grant Speed Demon 650 carb and I got the car to go 12.9's and 12.8's with it in good weather with good track prep, otherwise it was mostly 13.0's.

If I had to do it all over again, I would still get the 350HO. The ZZ4's heads suck for the price you pay for the ZZ4 motor.

I bought the 350HO, drove it for a year as a high 12/low 13 second motor until the warranty expired, then I modded. I shaved the heads down to 57cc ($60.00), put Fel-Pro thin head gaskets in the motor ($20.00), put the comp Extreme Energy 274 cam in ($170 w/ lifters) and some cheap valve springs ($40). It has ran 12.4's at 110 on radial tires, would have probably gone 12.2's on a slick at 1500 ft. This is still with stock stamped steel rocker arms too! Just dont let anyone tell you crate engines are a ripoff. Everyone told me I got ripped off when I bought my crate motor, until I made my first 12 second pass with it

RiceKiller87

i would most def. throw a carb on it. yes,u might loose some gas milage...but its SOOO much easier to tune and get more H.P. for the money.

im building a 350 for my car w/ Vortec heads,Edelbrock Performer RPM intake and an Edelbrock 750 carb. the reason i went w/ the Edelbrock carb is u can change the jets and metering rods in less than 5 min....something u can do at the track w/ mostly common hand tools. if u tried to do that w/ TPI, u would be bringing a laptop,cable that goes into the computer and the car,take the car apart to get to the computer and spend 30 min (or more,depends what ur doing i guess) to do the same changes....and thats IF u know what ur doing.

plus,im sure the motor ur wanting to buy/build is gonna make the power about 5500-6000 RPM's and the TPI falls on its face after 4500...so ur pretty much just pissing in the wind on that 1. u could go for the stealth ram or other F.I. intakes...but ur still gonna spend big money on tweeking and gettin it to run really good. and later on down the road u wanna change the cam for a higher lift....theres more computer tuning and more cussing....or $350+ for 1 custom burned.

the choice is urs

jmiller

I have to disagree with you guys on carbs. I't not that hard to make changes with TPI if you stay with the MAF system (85-89'), both my cars use the same chip. While you're changing jets, I'm simply adjusting the fuel pressure. Make a cam change or whatever, the system automatically adjusts. I use a $180.00 AutoXray to monitor my system that tells me exactly how my motor is running. I get 23 mpg instead of 12 mpg. At $2.00 a gallon for gas and I drive 2000 miles a month, I'm saving a bunch! I'm not saying I can get as much HP, but it's pretty damn close. I have a 67' Camaro I setup 5 years ago with TPI on a stock ZZ4, and I will never go back to a carburetor, it's like being in heaven, nothing ever goes wrong. You will also get many more miles out of your engine with TPI or EFI, knox sensor and fuel mixture always on your side protecting your motor.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

If you are driving the car all the time then yes, I think an EFI setup would be optimal. However, have you ever run your car at the track? TPI is a big time choking point.

jmiller

Yes I have. I drove it to the drag strip 170 miles away. Made 5 passes on it all et's were between 13.59 and 13.74 at 101 mph. on street tires and fully corked. I have 3.36 gears in the rear with a 700R4 trans, and of course a stock ZZ4. I believe I could have easily run in the 12's with slicks and still corked.
I was also running lousy 91 octane unleaded fuel. I was extremely pleased.

unknown_host

iTrader: (1)

My car with the 350HO rated at 25 less horsepower and 25 less ft lbs of torque went 12.93 and 12.88 with a demon carb and edelbrock dual plane intake at 105-106 mph.

wm_sorg

I agree. The data can then be analyzed for trends, anomolies and used for fine tuning, etc.

dennis6

You don't need the whole stealth ram. You just need the base/plenum and fuel rails. This around 400 dollars from summitracing.com As for the differental check out the $99 unit from SLP.

Kiwi-85IROC

Not just base plate/fuel rails...also Injectors/fuel pump to flow enough/ probably throttle body/ reprogrammed chip.
If I don't do all this, HP will drop off significantly from what the motor (ZZ383) is able to achieve out of the box.

Hence the question...Carb or EFI.

After reading Karl Lingenf... there is little or no HP diff between Carb vs EFI....most of it has to do with the ability to get enough AIR into the motor and then how that AIR is delivered ie runner/manifold length/size..giving various HP/TQ curves depending on whats desired and or what the engine you're feeding is designed to do based on Cub's, Comp ratio and Cam profile.

Guess it comes down to driveability and personal pref?????

Anyone else?

dennis6

Accel injectors are cheap. Not sure if the fuel pump is needed. Buy a used throttle body off ebay. As for the chip reprogram it yourself. You are going to have to do this anyhow with the Holley Commander 950 and the Holley system can not lock up your tranny.

For a carb you will need a new intake manifold, a new distributor, a fairly decent mechanical carb, fuel pump, and a way to lock the torque converter up. This will not be as cheap as you think if your in New Zealand and have to import all of it. For example these prices are US:

Intake manifold $120-$150
Demon Mechanical Carb $430
Distributor $200
Fuel Pump $450
Torque Converter Lockup $79-$150