Engine SwapEverything about swapping an engine into your Third Gen.....be it V6, V8, LTX/LSX, crate engine, etc. Pictures, questions, answers, and work logs.
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Thanks for the great info about the patriot headers! I have been looking for the 8.1 manifolds to use. Those things are tough to find! What I would pay for those used I can have these headers new.
OK! I have read all 5 pages and i have to say... booboosean has answered a lot of questions for me. Thank you and thanks to all who have posted.
At the end of the day... I cannot seem to find out whether the hooker swap headers 2226HKR or these Patriots require fewer mods to the car. I sure like the price of the patriots.
If thats true I'd rather dent my floor and grind a motor mount.
I know this thread is a few years old now, but it's really all the info I can find on the net, so your help is appreciated. The new BBC will be ready by the end of the year and I'd really like this swap to be as painless as possible.
On my car I had to hammer in a small area of the fire wall on the passenger side, and notch the lower control arm on the driver side. Some people have to dent the header tubes to clear the engine crossmember.
I thought they looked like crap with the collectors right under the side rocker panels. If I wanted side pipes then I would have bought side pipes. I sold the Hookers and had a set of custom Tri-Y headers made by Lemons Headers.
has anyone tried the H8013 patriot headers? I would assume they fit since it is just a little bit bigger exhaust tube but same size collector but wanted to find out for sure.
I ended up using the Hedman Headers (pn 68610). I actually had to cut out some of the floor on the passsenger side because of rust so it actually worked out well. As previously stated, the passenger side slid right in and bolted up, no problems. The drivers side slid in from the bottom. The collector did slightly contact the aft attachment for the lower control arm on the driver's side, but it wasn't anything that my handy dandy grinder couldn't handle. I am using Moroso solid mounts for this swap. Not sure if it would make a difference using the factory mounts.
The other issue was the ball and socket flange that Hedman uses for this application. I didn't like it so I removed the flanges. The Patriots use the standard 3 bolt flange which most likely works better for a street exhaust system.
The issue I am having now is figuring out which way to direct the exhaust from the collectors. Not much room under a 3rd Gen.
I ended up using the Hedman Headers (pn 68610). I actually had to cut out some of the floor on the passsenger side because of rust so it actually worked out well. As previously stated, the passenger side slid right in and bolted up, no problems. The drivers side slid in from the bottom. The collector did slightly contact the aft attachment for the lower control arm on the driver's side, but it wasn't anything that my handy dandy grinder couldn't handle. I am using Moroso solid mounts for this swap. Not sure if it would make a difference using the factory mounts.
The other issue was the ball and socket flange that Hedman uses for this application. I didn't like it so I removed the flanges. The Patriots use the standard 3 bolt flange which most likely works better for a street exhaust system.
The issue I am having now is figuring out which way to direct the exhaust from the collectors. Not much room under a 3rd Gen.
That's great!! I'm glad to hear of more guys getting creative with different headers. I have to admit, running the exhaust was as big a challenge as making the headers fit. Mine hangs pretty low, but will clear most speed bumps.
OK, well everthing went as suggested in this thread for the patriots. The driver side enginge mount bracket needed to be groud away a little... perfect. the floor on the driverside needed QUITE A BIT of "adjustment... but it's in! 2 things though, the flange on the passenger side is tight against the down leg of the frame rail and the length of that header dumps out too far back to easily route exhaust out the side. i have decided to cut the flange off to give me 1/2 inch clearance and lengthen the dumpout with a manderal bent tube to bring the exit toward the side. Will post pics when its done but for now all systems are a go!!! Thanks all
H8012-1 Ceramic Coated. Just got the car back from the exhaust shop. They cut off the flange on the pass side which gave me more clearance to the frame. Then they welded a tight "U" of 3' stainless to turn the exit toward the front of the car and put a new flange on. Then bent 3" pipe with stainless braided flex connection to run exhaust down the side. Driver side is way easier.
LOWNTUBD: Please do post pictures of the flange, this is exactly what I had planned on doing if I actually did a real exhaust with no turbo.
I hear people prefer the 3 bolts to the slip joints because the jarring of the exhaust and etc can pull it apart, but with solid motor mounts and a solidly mounted exhaust would this point be null?
Edit: I see you had tubing welded directly to the header.. I see.. please do post pictures.. I hope it won't be a pain to ever get out.
The pipe "U" shaped pipe welded to the header has a flange on it. Essentially he just modified the header to have the dump out point toward the front of the car.
Here is a link to my facebook page with all photos taken since swap began. The car had a 355 SBC before. I started the engine build in April 2009 and got the car on the hoist to start the swap mid-June 09. I should be able to get it fired for the first time this week. (getting excited now) I will take a few shots of the exhaust once I get it on the hoist again Monday.
Hopker makes headers that are for the swap for third gen. They are expensive but should fit right in. They go for 499 summit racing sells them.
Assume you mean Hooker. Those were mentioned earlier in the thread. Not quite a no mod fit still. Some clearance issues that needed to be addressed for them to fit in correctly.
I have noticed you are running brackets similar to those made by march performance. Do you have the part number to those by any chance. I would like to see if I have the same ones.
I have noticed you are running brackets similar to those made by march performance. Do you have the part number to those by any chance. I would like to see if I have the same ones.
I bought them separately from kegs and summit. Is the kit you bought mention to work with a long water pump( I know you have a electric). Do you think I'll have clearance issues with the radiator if I use a long water pump. One more thing, did you have any problem fitting in the power steering pump with those brackets due to space between the engine and steering box.
I really apreciate all help. I have been going at it for more than a year now trying to round up parts. Thanks to all.
I bought them separately from kegs and summit. Is the kit you bought mention to work with a long water pump( I know you have a electric). Do you think I'll have clearance issues with the radiator if I use a long water pump. One more thing, did you have any problem fitting in the power steering pump with those brackets due to space between the engine and steering box.
I really apreciate all help. I have been going at it for more than a year now trying to round up parts. Thanks to all.
I had the same concerns with the power steering pump and the steering box. The March bracket moves the pump up to the head rather than down low on the block and it works fine. It left the pulley about 3/4" away from the box.
As for the water pump... I think it all depends on the rad depth. It's pretty tight once you go with a 3" or more thickness.... WHICH YOU NEED!! Are you going to use electric fans or try to use a shoud and a flex fan on the pump? If you go electric, either looks like would fit... but I am not sure because I had decided to go electric early in the build ad never tested either mechanical setup. You might be wise to stay with the short pump to be safe.
That might be a good question for booboosean.
Also, march makes brackets for any set up really... it's harder to find stuff with the electric pump than either the short or long
I was thinking of going electric with dual eletric fans. So far you engine looks alot like mine as far as the pulleys. I also have the double ser groove at the crank. I am Now wondering if i could still use a electric water pump. I have the same pulley set up except mine is meant to run with a standard Ling water pump. I think that is i run two belts like you did one to the power steering and another to the alternator i should be able to use a electric water pump. Also did you remove all ac components of the car?
I was thinking of going electric with dual eletric fans. So far you engine looks alot like mine as far as the pulleys. I also have the double ser groove at the crank. I am Now wondering if i could still use a electric water pump. I have the same pulley set up except mine is meant to run with a standard Ling water pump. I think that is i run two belts like you did one to the power steering and another to the alternator i should be able to use a electric water pump. Also did you remove all ac components of the car?
The crank pulley in the kit I used is the longer depth, and while haven't compare it to anything I assume it is the same as the one that would be used for LWP setup. In the March kit I used, the brackets and hardware attach at each side of the water pump (in my case an electric CSR) using aluminum brackets and longer waterpump bolts to put accessories into the correct plane. I suppose if you are a good fabricator you can do just about anything. I am not so I bought the stuff that was supposed to match things up... and it did so perfectly.
As for A/C, that along with the heater core etc was all stripped out of the car when it was tubbed and back halved 8 years ago.
What is done to your engine to make that power? I assume it is mild setup.
Yes it's a mild build. I started in April with a bare block and just started buying new parts... used basically stock bottom end. Flat top pistons .020 over. I sent it out for machining and assemblly of the new rotating parts, I also spent money having the heads plained, port matched and polished (they are big ovals with 219/183 valves)
Once all the machine work was done I assembled them with all new springs guides retainers, added a Comp Cam magnum 280H and timing set, pushrods, new stock rockers, Eldebrock RPM AirGap, Holley 750, MSD Ignition/Coil Distributor etc.
Once it was broken in i brought the car to a race tuner who ironed out all the timing and jetting issues I was having... did a few dyno pulls and made It run like a kitten. Truly that was the best money i spent on the whole project. I know the basics on a carb and have a timing light, but theyhave REAL TALLENT in this area... plus the equippment. They just stick some O2 bungs up the pipes, get accurate air/fuel ratios, re-jet re-time over and over and just get it running smooth... I just do not posses that skill level.
I still have not heard of anyone doing it. If it works it could be less of a hustle to get headers into these big blocks.
I really think it's a lot less work using the patriots.The driver side is a drop in granted the passenger side needs some effort... But if you have the fab skills to customize SBC headers... all the power to you! Definitely not in my wheel-house though
I'll get towork on my car today. I am going to take out all the AC unit and the carpet. Don't know how the floor might be. I am really hoping I don't have to cut any parts of to replace. I'll post some pics of the engine when I start putting it together. Thanks to all, you have been a great amount of help and saved me a ton with the patriot headers. I might be back to ask some fitting questions but until then thanks.
the pump is a CSR-900B (Blue) summit link http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CSI-900B/. All the brackets, pulleys and hardware and brackets required were included in the March 23007 Kit.
did you ever try the 8013's. i have followed this page for a while and no one ever gets back with anyone on the 8013"s plz let me know.. cuz i have a set on the way nov 3 thanks the killer
Man, i have been trying to get everything together for my BBC and get the 8013s so i can see how they fit, but i am always having to sell stuff to fund the new and i had to blow allot of my car money on bills and what not so i am still waiting to finish the motor, short block is nearly ready and the heads i want are 300$, but come with a bunch of stuff i can sell to get the money back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSRMmi31
I don't know crap about it but here it goes. What is the counterweight
the counter weight is needed for a internally balanced flywheel on a externally balanced crank.
325$ from Fidanza for a aluminum flywheel! 
