Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

I will be swapping in a 400 SBC into my 86' that currently has the 2.8l 5 Speed in it. I found a running block out of a 79' K10 for $400 today. With a little bit of gas and a new battery she started, but we had gas flowing out of the carb and return line that wasnt hooked up. Me and my dad think it was a stuck floating valve in the carb which I will be replacing anyway, so I laid $200 down on it today and will pay the other $200 when I pick the motor up tomorrow. I was told a bad cam would make gas spray out the carb, but this wasnt a spray or mist of gas. Other than the flowing fuel she sounded good with no knocks, so it should be a good block to start my engine build with.

My goals for this build:

High 11's in the 1/4 Mile
About 400-425 HP to the Wheels
Built 10 or 12 Bolt w/ 3.27-3.55 Gears
2800 Stall Speed Converter
Undecided on Tranny

A friend should be dropping off an engine stand today or tomorrow so I can set the 400 on to start tearing at it. Now how far should I tear into this block, and what all should I look for? Ill probably have questions later on with choices of different parts and what I should go with.

Also, I can get a running TH400 for $200 which is hard to come by in my area. I know the TH400 will rob more horepower than a TH350, but with my budget I think I would be safer starting out with a strong transmission. Your thoughts on if I should pick this up or not would be helpful.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The engine should be completely disassembled. The heads are your new doorstops. The block should be taken to a machine shop, cleaned, and completely Magnafluxed and measured. If it is already .030" over, or the cylinders need to be bored that much to clean them up, you have just saved yourself a bunch of money because you won't be spending it on that block.

If you intend to use the crank, it should get the same treatment as the block - cleaned, Magnafluxed, measured. The crank isn't as likely to be flawed as the block, but it should be checked, anyway. If it isn't straight, or has been turned down .020" or more, set it next to the heads and go get a new crank.

You will want new rods, pistons, bearings, and cam going into the block, assuming it checks out. You might as well get forged pistons, as the other choices won't save you a significant amount of money, and are significantly less power capable. Scrimp on the crank, rods, or pistons, and you're going to be wasting all of the rest of the money you've put into the engine.

You'll need good heads. Fast Burns, AFR's, Sportsman II's - there are a bunch of good choices out there. Keep compression below 10:1 with the pistons chosen - there really isn't any reason to go higher than that unless you plan on running E85. Don't forget to drill the steam holes in the heads.

Intake: Hard to beat the Performer RPM in this power range.

400 HP to the wheels is a pretty stout load. If you don't have subframe connectors yet, get them on order. Poly bushings in all suspension locations is a pretty safe plan. Board sponsor Spohn has some good stuff for transmission swaps, his TH400 swap crossmember and adjustable torque arm are a trick combo. You should do something with the lower control arms as well, either box them, or get tubular pieces (also available from Spohn, and others). You might as well put a 12-bolt or 9-inch rear in your budget, as they are the only things that will reliably hold up to the abuse you've got in store for them.

2800 stall is probably undershooting a little. Getting the engine into the powerband immediately is the key to low ET's.

How much have we spent so far? $8k? Maybe more. Probably will end up being higher.

This is a pretty big project. Plan it out carefully, budget appropriately (don't cut corners), and do it right the first time.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Ill be picking up the engine in a few hours. My friend dropped off the engine lift yesterday so Im ready for it.

About how much will cleaning, magnafluxing, and measuring the block cost on average? And boring?

Do you recommend using the same crank if there is nothing wrong with it? Or is there a better alternative I can get? I plan on putting all new rods, forged pistons, bearings, and a cam in but Ill be asking what I should use when I get to choosing these parts.

For my application, which heads do you think will be the best bang for the buck? Also, I understand I will need to drill steam holes, but what are these holes for exactly? I plan on keeping compression below 10:1 because this car will see a little more of the road than the strip.

I plan on installing subframe connectors on the car. Which do you recommend, the bolt on or weld on connectors? I know the weld on are cheaper.

So you think Im ok going with the TH400 for my build? I havent bought it yet, so Id like to hear what you guys think. I can get one for $200 that was just taken out of a box truck if thats the route I decide to take.

I was thinking I would need to put a 12 Bolt in the car. Now will the 12 Bolt need beefed up, and if so, what all will need to be done to it? How would an LS1 rearend hold up for the power I want to push to the wheels, not as good as a 12 Bolt will? And do you think 3.27 or 3.55 Gears will be what I need?

If a 2800 Stall is a little low, would 3000 be alright you think? I want the car to still be streetable, so I dont want to go to high with the stall.



I understand this is going to be a pretty big project, and I want it done right the first time so I dont have to mess with it for some time. This will be Fall, Winter, and hopefully only part of Spring project. I imagine I will have many questions, and hopefully you guys can help me along on my first engine build.

Thanks guys!

89RsPower!

LS1 rear end will hold up just as good as your factory rear.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I should have said, if the cylinders need to go more than .030" over, it'll join the heads.

Machine shop prices vary from area to area, and shop to shop. What I recall hearing is something like $75-100 to clean the block and install cam bearings (for some reason they seem to include those together), and probably another $100 or so for magnafluxing. They will probably throw in the measuring. Cylinder bore & final hone is usually in the $150-$250 range. If the block needs to be decked, probably in the $100 range.

The GM Fast Burn heads are pretty impressive out of the box. The steam holes are to keep coolant pockets from forming around the siamesed cylinders. All other SBC's have a gap between the cylinders.

If the stock crank is crack-free and properly prepped, it will be fine for this application. Scat and Eagle cranks are pretty inexpensive, but you'd be better assured of quality with an outfit like Howards. The more I hear about Howards, the more impressed I am - good source for the rods as well.

Personally, the weld-in subframe connectors make more sense to me. But, I've never tried bolt-in. I have Spohn's in Berlinetta #1, picked up UMI's for #2 (haven't installed yet).

If you get the TH400, plan on having it taken apart and rebuilt. A shift kit should be installed, and the 2-3 "soft-shift" feature defeated (part of the kit install). Stall speed is a function of cam selected and usage. 3000 would be fairly easy on the street. I drive the '57 on the street with 3500 stall, you get so you don't even notice it.

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

kind of depends on personal preference. I started mine 2 years ago and never finished it. I had $1200 in block prep (includes crank polishing and rod prep) and bearings. that was them putting steam holes in the heads too. The shorter rods are kind of a draw back I could sell you the rotating assembly out of mine which is the 400 cast crank already prepped and stock rods with arp bolts in them and speed pro hyper pistons. my block is +.030 but there is rust in the cylinder walls now from sitting so I am probably going to do a partial hard blok and sonic test it first to see if I can go another +.010 so this stuff won't do me any good. I am switching to 350 rods too. All this stuff has zero run time on it. I am kind of undecided on a bbc swap now or punching this block out like I was saying. watch which intake you get because of hood clearence. heads I was going to use 034 bowtie heads you can get them for around $400-500 with stainless valves and usually mild port work. If you are interested in this stuff I can make you a decent deal on it all. just pm me
----------
I would go with the turbo 400 if you plan on doing more to this motor later otherwise find a th350 and you will gain a little more or upgrade a 700r4 but this will cost more than finding a turbo 350 and rebuilding it with good stuff not cheap junk. do as much as you can local with someone with a good reputation.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Well I got the engine home, and I am about to start looking it over after I get it on the stand. Ill reply to your posts later tonight, but I can tell you I bought the most sought after 400 SBC. The casting is 3951509. It has the 1% Tin and 2% Nickel added, along with only 2 freeze plugs per side instead of three. Its known as a 'cheater' block I hear because by first glance it can be mistaken for a 350 because its thought you can tell a 400 by it having 3 per side. Its also a 2 bolt going by the casting number, which is supposed to be stronger than the 4 bolts.

Well Ill reply later tonight, thats all for now.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Well after talking it over with my dad we have decided to keep the lower end stock, atleast for now. He says he knows the cylinder walls are fine from hearing it run. He knows more than I do, so I have been listening to what he tells me. Ill be replacing the Oil Pan & Pump, but that is probably all Ill do lower end wise. Going by the theory you can get away with a HP for a CUBE with a stock lower end, do you think I should be ok?

I still plan to hit as close to 400 HP to the wheels as I can.

As for the rear, I would be better off going 12 Bolt than LS1?

If that TH400 is still available Ill try and grab it so I can get it rebuilt. A 3000 stall sounds good.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

take the heads off and look at the pistons and walls. i'd still recommend atleast a budget rebuild with new pistons/rods /bearings etcs shouldnt cost all that much

for high 11's you dont need 400whp, 350-375 will get you there if your car isnt too much over 3500lbs with you in it, and is MUCH easier to hit and be streetable. you can do that with good heads and medium cam. I'd recommend AFR's as they have proven to me they are capable of some good power so far with a fairly mild duration on the intake on my cam. But if you find some cheaper options, go for it as long as they can flow some decent numbers

you should drive my car around with 3600stall and probly a good bit over 400whp now with the new air intake setup. it will surprise you how streetable it is and its running mid 11's


only thing to watch out for is if you run spohn crossmember setup and longtubes, you'll have exhaust like mine and it hangs low!!!! i'd try to avoid that if possible or else live with it. you'll clear alot of things but only if its mostly flat where you drive

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

Yeah I think I would pop the heads off too. going for the numbers you are the rod bolts will end up being a problem as soon as the track is seen. also even with the motor running You could have some ovality issues on the cylinders. Mine ran great then I popped the heads off and there was quite a bit of out of round on the cylinders. (before I had any maching done)I will sell my insides to you if you want them which is cast crank already checked with the bearings and the stock 400 rods resized with arp bolts and new spped pro hyper pistons. Mine has been sitting for a year and a half so there is rust in the cylinders so not really sure what I am doing but my block will need another .010 over so I won't be able to use the pistons and if I decide to use this block then I am just replacing th ecrank and rods. I would also throw in the cam .480/.480 lunati hyd flat tappet and lifters. If you want it I will do $400 and shipping then all you need is .030 over bore + gaskets and you are set. All the stuff is still in the block but it was never ran I had it all buttoned up and changed my mind before I hooked up the fuel line.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

The 4th gen rear will be slightly stronger than your stock rear, because your stock has 26 spline axles and the 4th gen will have 28 spline. Take the carrier out of the 4th gen rear, get aftermarket 28-spline 3rd gen axles, put them in your '86 housing and you'll have a rear that is every bit as strong as a 4th gen rear without the backspacing hassles. Weld the tubes, get a support cover, you'll be good for 400 HP. The 12-bolt, of course, will be practically bullet-proof.

With something like a Comp XE268 cam, you'll reach 1 HP/CID at the crank without breathing hard. With a 100 shot, my 396 is putting out about 450 RWHP at 5800' altitude, if you believe the internet HP calculators that use track ET/MPH. That's 11.95 @ 112 in a 3900 lb brick.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i know its big bucks but i'd love to see a retrofit roller setup on that motor. get nice heads that flow at high lift. thats the key for hp and streetability

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Well we plan on looking at all that stuff when we pull the heads, hopefully he goes for the idea of replacing that stuff because It wouldnt be a bad idea.

Heads are going to be the first thing I save for, I just need to decide on which ones will work for me. AFR's I hear good things about, and Fast Burns are supposed to be good too. For my build and budget, what do you guys think will be best?

I didnt realize you had a 3600 Stall in your Camaro, damn. Youll have to take for a ride in it so I can see how it rides.

What do you mean by 'retrofit' roller setup?

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Well give me some time to see what my cylinder walls look like, and if I need to bore it .030 over, then Ill def think about it.

Since Im going to have a hard time finding a 12 Bolt around here, do you suggest modding my rearend with a carrier out of a 4th Gen with aftermarket axles? Its def an option if I cant find a 12 Bolt..

Ill look up the Comp XE268 cam but theres so many options of Cams! What kind of lift and duration am I going to be looking for in a cam?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

It doesn't have to be out of a 4th gen, you just made it sound like you had a 4th gen rear available.

28 spline axles are the key. Any 10-bolt 7-5/8" posi carrier for 28-spline axles is fine (3-series, came with 3.23-up gears, preferred - 3.08 gears came on 2-series carriers from the factory). In fact, if you don't have posi now, you can get a 28-spline PowerTrax unit, or something similar, and 28-spline axles and convert it yourself. Of course, what gears you have/want is important, and needs to be considered with whatever you do.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i should have a 12 bolt in another month you can have my 4th gen rear.

BUT i'll be keeping the brakes for the 12 bolt. you'll have to talk to brian at jj's for some brake stuff

but retrofit roller is just roller lifters/cam designed for non roller blocks. that 400 isnt a roller cam block so it needs special 'retrofit' lifters to work and a retrofit cam if you want to keep it hydraulic roller

i think thats a good idea as you can get more lift and keep duration down.

Any aftermarket heads you get should be more than enough for 375-400whp with the right intake/cam setup. Its easier to make power with better heads so thats why i say get the best you can afford. its worth saving for good heads.

i may change my motor over winter. i'm not sure how long you plan on waiting for heads but i may sell my new AFR's. BUT this is a long way off and definately a maybe. not sure what i want to do yet

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

My dad would like to replace the Oil pan, oil pump, filter, and oil first. You guys agree?


Well currently I have a 3.73 Posi Rear, Orr helped me figure the gears out. I plan on going 3.27s or 3.55s with the 3000 stall, you think those gears will work?


If I can find a 12 Bolt Id like to go with that, but if I cant find one and beefing up my 10 Bolt will be more expensive than your 4th Gen Rear I might take it. Can a 12 Bolt from a 2WD truck work?

Id like to keep it hydraulic lifter if thats the better way to go. As for the heads, I know I dont want to go cheap on those so Ill save a little more $ and buy the best I can.

Why the hell might you take that 383 out? What would you replace it with???

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

it will still be a the 383 but with a different set of heads for either A) nastier cam or B) a larger cc chamber to lower compression to run some boost i'm thinking B but we'll see when that time comes

HP52TA

iTrader: (4)

This is in no way an upgrade to meet your goal of 400+ HP. If this engine is stock, it is likely a low compression engine, as these were rated somewhere between 150 and 250ish horsepower dependant upon the year.

With already having the engine on the stand, as a minimum I would suggest at least new bearings and rings as the lowest cost option before putting it into a vehicle. Installing new heads on this old engine without doing some other work to ensure its longevity just does not seem right to me.

I think your next cheapest option is using the stock crank and rods with the rods resized with ARP bolts. Install new pistons (if budget allows get new 5.7inch rods too) to match up with your new heads to get the compression you want and install a hydraulic flat tappet cam. Add a performer RPM intake and 750 carb and this combination could get you close to your horsepower goal.

If you have the funds to go all out, well......forged, roller, etc. etc.

I think you and your dad need to define a budget to be spent and then a lot of knowledgable people on this forum can help you make the best decisions for the funds available. I have just gone through this in specing out all the parts for my 406 as well, so understand the differences of what I want and what I can afford, unfortunately building what I can afford more so than want. The wants will be for the next build I guess.

You have an excellent foundation to build a sweet motor, so I wouldn't rush your progress, but set some goals as you already have and build towards them. You will have a lot more enjoyment out of what you have in the end.
[/quote]

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

agreed, i'd definately do a rebuild on it now just to get it done and ensure longevity. Worst thing is to have it blow with new heads on the motor and wipe out the combustion chamber/valves

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Your crazy

[/quote]

Well Id like to redo all the bottom end, but its my dad that would like to keep it stock to save on $. Is it possible for us to replace the pistons, bearings, rings, and rods by ourselves? The reason he is leaning away from replacing this stuff is because he thinks we may have to send it out to a machine shop, which is where the $ that he doesnt want to spend comes into play. Ill still try and convince him tho.

As far as budget I dont have one, and dont really want to make one because I feel it would constrict me and I might end up building something that isnt what I planned due to a budget. Basically its whatever is going to get me as close to my goals as possible for as cheap as possible. If I had to put a dollar sign on the whole drivetrain Id LIKE to spend no more than 7-8k, but you never know with extra costs and unexpected things how much its actually going to take.

I plan on taking my time, hopefully itll be almost done my spring. But if not, Im not going to rush things. Id like to do this right the first time and enjoy it for awhile.

Thanks for all your help so far guys. I still need to tear a little more off the motor..but Im getting there little by little with the time I have when Im not working.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

a machine shop would probly get you setup with a new 406 shortblock for less than 2500 bucks

cast street/strip rotating kit is about 1000 bucks. i forget the pricing that a local shop gave me but i think its like 250 clean up a block/bore it over .030. 150-300 to balance, and like 500-700 to assemble plus some misc. cost for small parts/etc

Thats anywhere from 2000-2300 or so right there, not a bad deal. Add 1200 dollar heads, 160 dollar cam/lifter kit, maybe reuse stock oil pan, 250 for intake, 400-500 carb, etc your gonna be pretty good, motor about 5 grand if you do it right. 2-3G in other drivetrain stuff should work out well

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Havent posted an update in awhile sorry about that guys. Ive been working constantly (Need $ for my build) and school is back in.

We've decided not to machine the block or put a new rotating assembly in for two reasons: 1 Money, Its going to save me atleast 2k by not rebuilding the lower end at this time. 2 Low Miles. After tearing into the motor a little more we found it has a double roller timing chain, new freeze plugs, and a few other details.

Everything leads to this motor being a reman or rebuilt motor which would go along with what the owner of the salvage yard said which was the truck was his friends and he had had it rebuilt or remaned and the truck just rotted until nothing was left. We thought it was BS at the time but now its looking like he was right. My point is, the block will be safer using the bottom end compared to it having 100K+ miles like we thought.

So now that I have some cash to work with my dad would like to do the bottom end now. Oil Pan & Pickup, Cam, Oil Pump, Gasket Set, Gear Drive Set, Engine Bolt Kit, Oil Filter, & Oil. That should take care of everything bottom end wise.

But now I have questions for you guys. As far as an oil pan goes, would this one work well?

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$200 Oil Pan, Pickup, & Pump

We want to go with a Gear Drive (Pete Jackson) instead of a Timing Chain, but I need your help choosing a Cam. I have a link below to the gear drive if you need to look it up.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Pete%20Jackson...27-1C/10002/-1
$170 Pete Jackson Gear Drive


http://store.summitracing.com/partde...1&autoview=sku
$80 Engine Bolt Kit


http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
$53 Gasket Set



Like I said guys feel free to point me in the right direction, or if you know I can get something cheaper elsewhere let me know.

Thanks

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Oil pan - the kick-out will cause exhaust interference. Just get a standard pan.

Gear drive timing set - an absolute waste of money.

Engine bolt kit - any particular reason for that?

Gasket set - looks fine.

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

I agree the stock style milodon pan with a pump pickup assembly will be better and saves you about $60 or so. the gear drive is alright but you don't need it just get a Cloyes double roller. bolt kit is fine makes it easier. if you use a felpro one piece oil pan gasket (which I definitely recommend the oil pan bolts aren't long enough) and if you switch to cast valve covers those bolts don't work either. same goes with a cast timing cover (also recommend) so all in all you might be better off just getting the individual kits if you are going with all 3. make sure to check the deck before the heads go on with the way the 400's are they are usually warped. So better off to check how bad even if you don't do anything about it at least you'll know. The bolt kit only helps if yo uaren't changing anything. oh yeah the manifold bolts don't work with headers.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku
I believe this Oil Pan will work then, its not kicked out and for the same price.

Gear Drive -- Wanted it for the noise, and they are supposed to free a bit more horsepower than a Chain.

No reason on the bolt kit, now that you ask that I should be fine with the existing bolts. I can always buy a set of bolts for something specific if need be.

Gasket Set -- Cool Ill be ordering that one then.

Only Milodon Pan I found was $100 more, but I was only looking in the Oil Pan Package department.

There is a double roller on there now, if I dont go with a Gear Drive I can/will use it.

Ill pass on the bolt kit, I can use the existing bolts and like you said buy the sets if need be when the time comes.

I plan on looking at the deck and cylinder walls most definetely, but we are very sure it'll all check out.

Any advice on a cam? Like Ive said before Im looking for 400-425 HP. Ill be saving for heads once I buy all the bottom end parts.

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

this is th epan on mine it says it is only good for a 350 stroke but it fits fine they just have it labeled wrong. then just get a mellings hi volume oil pump and the pickup for this pan you'll have around $155 in it roughly. on the cam around .480/.480 the heads will make the difference in waking the motor up the smog heads that were originally on there are junk if that is what is still on there. You should check the head casting number though if the previous owner refreshed the motor maybe there is some decent iron heads on it?

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Do you know the part number of your oil pan by chance?

What company of Cams do you prefer? I hear good and bad things about all of them so I dont know who has the best product for the price..

I plan on going with good heads, like to spend about $1000-1400 on them which should get me some nice heads for the money.

I took a Valve cover off a few weeks ago to get the castings, I wrote them down somewhere but cant remember where lol. I can just look again. I do remember the castings on mine were the same as the castings on my buddies 350 out of an early 70s pickup so they arent aftermarket. Our guess is the guy bought a long block and switched out the top end of his old motor onto it.

jstoltz

iTrader: (16)

lunati comp or crane I think the pan # is 30700. look and see if there might be any port work the heads might be OK for now then just go for aluminum later. very doable if you are going for $1000-$1400 range. patriot heads are pretty decent or go with bowtie heads but it will push your compression a little so make sure you find out what you have for sure before shopping for heads the stockers were 72 cc so just swapping to 64 cc heads will raise compression considerably. if you can try to get it around 9.8 to 10 to 1 after head swap.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yep, kickouts can make it tight under there. harder to instal longtubes if you run those i know this

cam? flat tappet i presume. i have no idea what would work and it will depend on the heads you end up with. 400 can eat up some cam with all those cubes so anywhere near 400whp if thats what you want will require a healthy cam and great heads. maybe the XE284, 240/246 thats where i'd start perhaps. With 1.6 rockers it should be a nasty little motor with a great set of heads.

Problem is alot of good heads are setup with roller springs like AFR's. you'll want to be careful there, dont want too much pressure. stock AFR 8017 springs with shims removed maybe be soft enough to work but i dont know

89RsPower!

If you get a chance take some pictures of what you're working with. Post some pictures of the rod and main bearings so we can see what kind of condition they are in, also if you can get some pictures of the cylinder walls with the heads off that could help give us an idea of what condition the block is in. As for head selection you should determine what pistons are in it and how they are installed with relation to deck height so you can figure out the compression ratio you will be running. Are you really determined to install a gear drive? They're really more of a novelty item for people who want to pretend they're running a supercharger IMHO. The amount of difference in power between a quality double roller chain and a gear drive would be unnoticable. Gear drives also tend to be more trouble than they're worth since they sometimes interfere with timing covers and require some grinding on the block. If you decide to stick with a chain I'd suggest simply replacing it even if it doesn't look that old, you can get a good quality double roller chain for about $30.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Well I guess Ill go with this Oil Pan, its reasonable for $200. Ill order the Gasket set at the same time too. As for the cam Ill hold off an let you guys help me out a little more. I guess give me an idea of what Cam/Head Combo would work for what I want to achieve, and then I can order the cam from there and save up for the heads.

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku


I wont have time to pull the heads off until early next week, but I will take pictures and post them up. I work all weekend, probably 30 hours between Fri Sat & Sun. Im determined to build this car, so I work as much as I can.

Im not really determined to install a Gear Drive, I just thought Id replace the Timing Set anyway and my dad threw out the idea of a Gear Drive for the novelty aspect (Supercharger Whine) and to replace the Double Roller thats on there now. Im still undecided if this is the route I want to go.

As far as the checking out the Pistons and everything, Im sure my dad will know how, but how do I know what Pistons are installed and how do I measure them like you want me to?

Thought Id throw a pic of the motor up just for the hell of it. This is a few days after I bought it I have alot of this stuff off, labeled, and in a box nice and neat now.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

what carb/intake will you run?

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Ive been told by people on here to run a Performer RPM Intake, good choice? My friend is building a 350 right now an wants to run a Victor Jr, but I think that power band isnt what Im looking for. As for a carb I was thinking a 750 or 800 cfm, but of course if you have a suggestion Im going to listen lol.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

rpm isnt bad, vic jr aint bad for a 406. single plane may work well with that 406. give up a tad bit of low end performance for some higher rpm fun. if you get a good set of heads, i would consider vic jr and a good 750cfm carb but rpm manifold is fine. much more aggresive street/strip car will favor the vic jr

igotta355z28

iTrader: (1)

ok so let me throw out a lil info for ya, i dont know if someone already covered this cause i kinda breezed through after this post but here she goes.
1. You cant use any stock 12bolt from any gm vehicle (yes before someone says u can weld on them and all that blah blah blah yeah thats bout like putting a bandaid on a bullet wound IMO.) you will have to buy an aftermarket 12bolt or ford 9inch (i recomend the 9) that is specifically built for our cars with torque arm mounts and that will run you well over $2k. so i sugest doing just like five7 sugested on upgradeing ur own rear end that will be strong enough for a while.
2. Please get the 3000rpm stall idea out your head....U need to pick a stall based on alot of facts that you dont have yet...when u figure out your gearing, exactly how your going to build your motor (especially the cam specs) and the weight of the car then come on here and seek advice on what stall to get. it is very important to match this along with all other parts of your combination to get the best results, this is not a "o that sounds good" type deal youll waste alot of money that way....good luck god speed and have fun

89RsPower!

Look on the top and the bottom and see if you can find a part number, also on top you will most likely find a number indicating the overbore they are intended for such as .020 .030 etc. If you can find a part number you will most likely to be able to find all the info out you need. The other thing you want to determine is the relationship between the piston and the deck, you want to measure how deep down in the bore they are. With that information it will be simple to figure out what size chamber heads you want to achieve your desired compression ratio.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Still been working alot, making decent money to get this project up and going. I ordered:

7 Qt Moroso Oil Pan
Can of Gloss Black Engine Block Paint
Proform Gear Drive
Moroso Oil Filter
Full 400 Gasket Set

While Im waiting for these parts to come Id like to start choosing what Cam/Heads Ill be going with. What combustion chamber volume size should I be looking for? Intake runner volume? Exhaust runner volume?

Which cam style should I go with? Intake/Exhaust duration at 050 inch lift?

I want to go with a Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake so Im looking for heads/cam that will work well together.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

195-200 cc heads that flow well should compliment that motor nicely. Keep compression up 10-11 to 1 with aluminum heads.

Could get away with a good 210-215cc head to, i woudlnt hesitate to run that setup.

Cam? flat tappet i'm not sure, i was considering 230/236 degrees intake/exhaust to 240/246. Somewhere in that range should be fun

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Alright thatll give me some #s to work with so I can look through all the heads there are.

Just searching briefly I found a Comp Cams Cam with a 236/242 int/exh. Am I looking for something along the lines of this? Do I want a Hydraulic or Mechanical Flat Tappet cam?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Sorry, I haven't had time to be on the Board much lately.

Gear drive vs. chain - I know you've already ordered the gear drive, but gears take more power to drive than chains. Whatever power gain you might realize is from improved timing accuracy in engines built to the max - that doesn't apply here. A good harmonic damper will make more difference than the gear drive in that respect. I think you'll get tired of the noise soon enough as well - if nothing else, it might mask a noise that you need to hear (water pump or alternator bearing, for instance - I had an alternator bearing fail after a time trial earlier this year, if I had a gear drive, I wouldn't have heard it and it may have caused big problems the next run - it's also why I run mufflers on my car at the track). But, just my thoughts, not something that's going to make the engine fall apart.

Heads - have you looked at GM Fast Burns? 200cc intake, Vortec intake port & chamber pattern. Pretty good heads for a decent price.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i'd probly use hydraulic cam unless you dont mind adjusting the valve train alot.

i'd think anything in the 230-240 range woukld work ok on a 406. I am a roller cam guy and i'd know for sure i'd run a 236 or so lobe on that 406 with good heads to make 400whp all before 6500rpm

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

Its possible the novelty of the gear drive will wear off but eh it'll be something different nobody around me has. Ive torn a little more into the motor. We took the Double Roller Timing Chain that was on there off, and have put the bottom sprocket for the gear drive on the crank. Drained the oil, pulled the old oil pan, pulled the old fuel pump, and I took the carb off that I had just sitting on the intake.

Edelbrock Performer RPM Hydraulic Flat Tappet Cam Kit
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...2&autoview=sku

GM Performance Fast Burn Heads
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku


How about the cam above? I had trouble finding a cam with a nice RPM range without having to pay astronomically.

Another question, will this cam kit and heads work together?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

not bad, lobes are alittle lazy but can work.

89RsPower!

Wish we could talk you out of the gear drive.. I know you will eventually grow to hate it (I had one on a 350 a few years back.. it drove me nuts after about a week and drowned out a rod knock until it was too late).. So I take it you're not going to rebuild the bottom end (just assuming since you started to install the gear drive). How did the cylinder walls look? Did you measure them etc? How about the rod and main bearings? (can you post some pics for us of the cylinder walls and some of the bearings and rod/crank surfaces?) I'm by no means an expert on cams but I've heard edelbrock cams are quite lame (old designs), you could probably get the same cam from summit for half the price if you really want that grind, if not I'm sure theres something better out there from comp or another of the better cam manu's.

Air_Adam

I'd reccomend the Comp Cams XE274 over any Edelbrock cam... Its a really nice cam, I've got one in my 350. Has a nice chop to it, makes plenty of power between 1500-6500 rpm, and is still very streetable too. Specs are 230/236 duration @ .050, .490/.490 lift with 1.5 rockers.

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

I dont have time to reply to anyone because Im off to work but how about any of these cams:

Summit Cam
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...UM-K1107&N=700

Comp Cam
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...12-250-3&N=700

Lunati Cam
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...-00012LK&N=700

RenoReno2

I'm planning on running pretty much the same setup and I emailed comp cams for a recommendation and they replied with this one. I'm going to be using edelbrock performer rpm heads
After looking through your information I suggest one of our XTREME ENERGY series cams. Your specific engine combo could easily use a bigger cam but for street use and practicality I decided with a little more smooth idle and good streetability. Here is the part number for the cam I have suggested (12-433-8). I will list the specs on this cam below. If you have any questions feel free to reply or call our tech line. Have a great day.

INTAKE MASTER 3316S
EXHAUST MASTER 3317S
ENGINE CS XR288HR-10
GRIND NUMBER CS XR288HR-10
INT EXH
HYDRAULIC Y/N YES DUR @.050 236 242
INTAKE EXHAUST LOBE LIFT .3470 .3600
VALVE ADJUSTMENT HYD HYD ROCKER RATIO .00 .00
MAX GROSS VALVE LIFT .520 .540
DUR @ .006 TAPPET LIFT 288 294 LOBE SEPARATI 110.0
ADVANCE 4
VALVE TIMING OPEN CLOSE VALVE SPRINGS 986-16
.006 INT 38 70
EXH 81 33
THESE SPECS ARE FOR CAM(S) INSTALLED
106.0 INTAKE CENTERLINE

Stippy17

iTrader: (6)

I wont be rebuilding the bottom end, not until next fall. Everything has been looking super clean so far so we are pretty confident this thing was rebuilt at some point. I still have to take out the Distributor, Intake, & Heads but I will get pics as soon as I get that stuff off the block.


I did a search and couldnt come up with it, do you have/know the part number?

What do you think of these?

Im looking for a Flat Tappet Cam though..

Air_Adam

Comp Cams XE274:

Part Number: 12-246-3
Summit P/N: CCA-12-246-3
Grind Number: CS XE274H-10

Summit hasn't updated the cam's info in awhile... the lift is now .490/.490 and has been since I bought mine 2 years ago. The rest of the info does look correct though. The short lift of that cam makes it a good street cam, as its not as hard on parts because it doesn't require really rediculous valve springs, but its got lots of duration so it still makes ALOT of power with the right heads.