Andrew91GT

I bought a '90 formula to mod, I want to make a SICK pro touring vibe type street car with CRAZY power, all on e85 pump fuel. Unfortunately, wife has a baby coming and to fund the build, I have to sell my outlaw 10.5 mustang. I've listed it for sale a couple of places and the economy just REALLY sucks these days. I'm not about to give my engine away for $0.25 on the dollar, so I may have to take drastic measures.

Original plans called for a 540-565 BBC with twin turbos and a glide (possibly a stick if I can find one for the right price that will live), but I'm looking at ~$6900 just for parts for the shortblock (dart block, callies crank, billet rods, good pistons, rings, bearings).

I've come to the conclusion that it would be MUCH cheaper for me to put the ford engine in it, and maybe a couple years down the road when the economy gets better and I can get some more cash for it, build the chevy.

The ford motor is an all aluminum 9.5" deck height 351W block, 4" stroke 4.145" bore 432 CID engine. The heads are some victor senior heads, 390 cfm intake, 321 cfm exhaust with a ported super victor intake converted to EFI. Block has 55mm cam bearings, heads have T&D shaft mount rockers with a set of jesel solid roller lifters.

Here are a couple pics:









The thing makes some power, here's 8 psi:



Couple low boost passes:

http://www.youtube.com/Andrew91GT#p/u/13/HfsmOh26ZHs

http://www.youtube.com/Andrew91GT#p/u/22/45fxFshYUQU

Anyway, it's not a low powered turd. I plan on swapping out the BME aluminum rods for a set of billet steel rods as well as putting in a smaller solid roller to make it streetable, and treating it to rings, bearings, etc.

I might reuse the current PT114 turbo or (more likely) go smaller twins, S400SX3 or something similar.

I saw a couple posts doing a search and not many people have done a swap like this, and not many people were very positive.

The easy way to do it would be to use a tubular k member and motorplate/midplate setup, but I was curious if anyone had ever made motor mounts for this setup. Any pics?

Here's a pic of the bird:



Thanks!

Andrew

Sports Reporter

That car don't know what brand of motor is in it. Personally I would just sell that windsor and build a similar LS1 for the firebird. Why recreate the wheel. With the cost of LS1 stuff dropping daily you could probably come out a little ahead if you get a good price for that windsor motor.

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

Why not just sell the Formula and keep the mustang? If you are going to sell the Stang as a roller, I am sure the formula will sell for just a much. I personally like 5.0 mustangs... Hate to say it, but why plan on doing a ton of work swapping in the 5.0 engine while you can keep the 5.0 Complete.

Andrew91GT

Two things:

1. It's super tough to move the parts at this time in this economy. If I did sell the sbf and build an LSX or BBC I'm still looking at $8-10k for a shortblock (LSX or BBC) vs. a set of rods and machine work to make the ford junk go.

A similar LS1 would be a tall deck RHS block with a callies or lunati crank, billet rods, all pro heads.

The BBC I want to build is a 9.8" DART block with 4.25" callies crank, billet rods, RFD Victor pro heads, etc.

Either one of these would cost me what I have in the mustang junk. PLUS I have all of the nickel and dime stuff that ends up costing WAY more than you think it will for the ford.

2. I always wanted a TA/formula when I was in high school. The mustang is a 25.5 racecar, WAY too far gone to make it a street car. I'm asking $27.5k for the mustang roller (no fuel system, no electronics, no 3rd member), think a '90 formula 305 TBI/auto with 53k original miles would bring close to that?

In any case the stock SBC junk is NOT going to stay as it won't meet my power goals. If I could get $0.50 on the dollar for the mustang stuff I'd sell and build a GM motor but all I get are flakes and broke dreamers looking to steal this stuff for 1/4 of the money I have in it.

I'm REALLY tired of the racecar stuff. It's like having a 20 hour a week parttime job to get the car ready, then bring it to the track and work on it for 8 hours while you're there. For 15 seconds a night it's REALLY fun, but other than that it's a beating. I want something that I can jump in it and enjoy any time I want with LOW maintainence.

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

I don't think you can go wrong with any of your ideas. It seems to me that you do great work.

ericjon262

guys always talk about "building something different" (everyone's excuse for building a 305) but this is the first time someone has ever gone this different!

zraffz

That's cause it's not right haha... I see SBC powered foxes, but never SBF powered fbodies.

Sports Reporter

I'm in love with your formula by the way. Since you are pretty much stuck on going this route heres what I would do. Widen the rear wheels about 3inches toward the inside and put some of those 315/45-16 MT drag radials on it. Do all the rear suspension stuff like stronger torque arm, tubular lowers, anti roll bar adjustable panhard. Get a PA racing k-member that lowers the motor and has rack and pinion mounts. Put a manual rack with that Ford motor and a power glide and 4" mufflex exhaust.

Leave all the interior the way it is and have a mid to high 8 second sleeper from hell.

Oh damn I just gave away my plans. If your from Houston don't read this. lol

JTNKTZ

iTrader: (10)

Honestly, do it right the first time.
I have heard Chevy's put into fords cause they make good engines.
But a ford into a chevy? :/

To each his own but I am going to refer not to.
I know it's a bias opinion but your asking on a GM forum :P

Andrew91GT

That's basically what I was thinking... I want to minitub it and put some wider wheels on it for sure, but keep the stock look to the interior. I think the easy way to put the motor in is to use the motorplate/midplate that I have, but I'm not sold on that yet..... otherwise I have to custom fab motormounts.

The interior will be stock with a 6 point, some tint and the racepak dash... or maybe I won't use it.

Got the motor to the machine shop last weekend, 55mm roller cam bearings, bronze lifter bushings, aluminum block... life is good!



JTNKTZ, I'm not particularly brand loyal, if it's fast, I like it! My daily is a 2002 Z06 with an LS3 in it. Chevy is good stuff, but right now it's all about selling used and buying new, you know?

Sports Reporter

I love it. Will you bring it to Houston and give me a ride. I can probably help set up some races. At the track of course and for a case of diet cokes or 2.

t_raven

I think it'd be cool to see a Ford engine in a Pontiac. It'd **** a lot of people off but who cares. This 68 Camaro has a twin turbo Ford engine in it

Andrew91GT

Parts are starting to trickle in...



Oliver billet rods with the ARP 3.5 bolt upgrade.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

I'm not fundamentally a brand loyalist, in spite of the badges on my current "fleet", but there are some things that I just have to consider unnecessary.

Or, to put it a different way, unfortunate.

Awesome-X

I think its a great idea. I don't see how anyone could argue with putting a 900hp ford block in anything. You have to work with what you have, and what you have is a monster. Run with it.

Andrew91GT

900 rwhp on low boost

Found out that the lifter bushings were trash, have to get some new ones installed. Unfortunate turn of events, but better to know now than later!

I also had to order one jesel solid lifter, one of my old ones had seen better days.

Pistons should be in around 4 weeks from now.

whatever84

Do it. There wouldn't be any brand loyalty issues if it was me with 900hp on a safe tune. Have fun!!



Mark.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Using what you have is about the worst reason for trying to put any two things together.

RED_DRAGON_85

thats only true if what you have is your grand-pappy's old 327 thats been sitting in the garage rusting for 40 years and a 4 cyl t-5 transmission with the plans to make a "budget sleeper"
if you have a properly built motor (of any brand) and a properly built car, why not mix the two together...

FWIW, i actually saw a 2nd gen with a ford engine win on pinks all out once

sethteef

I am not the biggest fan of Ford but if I had that engine and the knowledge to put it in my firebird you can bet your *** that would be in there as fast as humanly possible. I hope it turns out well for you.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Goes beyond that.

There have been more other brands with Chevy engines.

RED_DRAGON_85

and your point is...


all i am saying is that it would be one thing if it was a hunk-a-junk car and he was convinced that milling the heads would boost his compression and give him like 100 more hp with a super radical cam all out of a 327 with ****ty small valve heads.

its another thing entirely to put a well built powerhouse into your favorite car.

either way, why do you care?
in the end, its all about the

and the

Andrew91GT

Got to hold them in my hands today.... another few weeks for the custom pistons and we'll be in business!

88Trans-am

wow. those are amazing numbers for that 351< I would not be embarrassed< just dont lift the hood in public hahahahahaha

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

You say there have been Chevys on Pinks with a non-Chevy engine; my point is there have been more the other way around.

It's your car, it's your money, do whatever you want. You are going to get neither praise nor an argument from me.

I may, however, comment. . .

Andrew91GT

Hey man, it's cool. it doesn't hurt my feelings.

I wanted to do a 555" BBC, but couldn't unload the ford junk for what I needed to get to make it happen, so it is what it is.

whatever84

And it's more then what most of us have so I'm ready to see it happen!!

Mark.

matts86cam

iTrader: (1)

Wont all that power in the Ford engine destroy the Formula. I would think it would rip the car to shreds without al kinds of mods to the suspension, tranny, etc.

Andrew91GT

It sure would. I have a neal pro glide for the transmission, it lived in my outlaw 10.5 car making 2300 hp, I think it will laugh at this setup. I'm hoping that I can reuse my carbon fiber driveshaft, but that will only work if the engine is close enough to the same distance from the rearend that my mustang is, otherwise it will get sold. The rearend will probably be a 9", using my strange ultracase 9.5" gearset out of the racecar, though I might swap the gear ratio... it's a 4.11 setup right now.

I need dual subframe connectors, a cage, weld up the torque boxes and reinforce the panhard bracket on the frame.... I want to do a tubular front suspension with coilovers. The rears will be offset lower control arms, most likely minitub the car and put some wider wheels on it.... I want the option to fit a 315/60/15 radial if I can, but also a set of 19 x 12's for autocross/corner carving if I can.

Awesome-X

Would you reupload that pic of your bird? For some reason all I ever see is an x

Andrew91GT

Here's what I have:

01GPGT

iTrader: (1)

i like it


i have always used what ever i have had lieing around it's worked so far

Brad5117

wow man that is going to be one fast bird , cant wait to see it going down the track post vids so we can check it out man

Badbird83

A buddy of mine down the road dropped a 302 into a 2nd gen Camaro and so far it's been a good ride. Of course, his 240hp is nothing by comparison and, although I'm a strong advocate for Pontiac and Chevy in general, I would love to see this. Not only do you get the aesthetic pleasure of passing and beating other Fords... you're doing it with their motor.

Love the color of your formula too. Is that the grey/black interior?

tekkitan

iTrader: (1)

If you're going to sell the mustang roller for that much, why not sell it with the engine and get more then you will have enough for your BBC?

Also, don't knock SBCs :P bore out an aftermarket 400 block and make it an SBC 454 and you've got some pretty crazy power even without any adders.

Andrew91GT

Pistons are in!

Atilla the Fun

Good grief. Put the engine wherever you want it. It's your stuff.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Am I the only one that thinks stuff like this DOESN'T look good? I know why it was done but seriously, that looks ghetto. It ruins an otherwise nice looking car.

Love the Formula though.

Sports Reporter

When I see a car with a turbo sticking through the bumper cover the last thing I think about how it looks. I'm thinking ohhhh yeah I want to see that bad bitch make a pass. Just sayin

Sports Reporter

I have to say this car makes me sick. Like I said I am a mustang guy from back in the '80s but that blue on that firebird and the condition it is in makes me very jealous.

I love the big power that car is going to make but please please please leave it as stock looking as possible. I know you want to run some bigger wheels in the back and I think some brand new welds would look good but thats about as far as I would go. I would put the molly cage in it and put all the stock interior back in it. That car will be way cooler a little heavy and stock looking and run 9's than to run high high 8's and look like a race car. Thats been done.

I had to quote the pic cause I love the color on that car so much.....

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I can get over the turbo sticking through the hood. This goes beyond that kind of ugly. When I see something like that I don't care how fast it is or what else is under the hood. In fact I assume other stuff wasn't well thought or well put together either regardless of how fast it is.

Andrew91GT

Thanks man!

I want it to look stock from the outside, but lowered a bit on wheels. As a semi-cheapo option I'm buying my friend's stock C6 wheels and tires. I picked up a pretty cheap set of C5 brakes, eradispeed rotors and stainless lines too.

I'm going to replace the rear spoiler with one of the fiberglass stock replacement ones and keep it stockish on the outside.

Walk softly and carry a big stick! hehe

Andrew91GT

It's a pretty common thing in the outlaw and heads up racing world. There are a few advantages, such as presenting pressurized air to the turbo, cooler air to the turbo, and (to a very small degree) pulling air out from in front of the car to reduce wind resistance (yeah, I know, it's a stretch).

A few other guys have done this:

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

As a general rule, I still don't like it. Bare in mind I do understand the reasons for doing it, I just hate the look.

In order:

Ugly
I've seen worse
Not too bad
OK
Ugly
Ugly
Quite excellent really
Ugly

Sports Reporter

What one man sees as ugly the rest of us think of as hardcore. Functionality over appearance any day in my book when your talking all out "race cars" I really don't get what is so ugly or "not well planned" you see in this. These cars are not show cars even tho some would probably win some descent hardware. I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Most of the builders of these cars above are looking at the extra power over how pretty the car is. I will agree to disagree with your taste.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Like I said, some of them do look good. That Mustang down near the bottom with the twin turbo setup looks fantastic. The rest of them look ghetto. While I see your point about function over form, they can coexist. A little more planning on the builders part is all it takes. Either that or superior fabrication skills.

Andrew91GT

The last two are actually the same car. I am coming to the realization that you like twin turbos. In any case, I understand your opinion, but I respectfully disagree.

Where would you have mounted the single turbo?

Andrew91GT

Picked up some wheels today, C6 powedercoated black, 18/19. Got C5 brakes coming, waiting until they get in to figure out what spacers I need. I've got some 1.5" spacers that came with the wheels, I think with the additional width of the c5 caliper in front, they will work ok.

Awesome-X

Lookin good

Andrew91GT

Picked up some front end suspension. Engine is getting close to done at the machine shop.

Got racecraft full front end suspension, road race k member, a arms, caster camber plates, 2" drop spindles and coilovers.