Can i run my engine w/o A.I.R. system? - Exhaust - Third Generation F-Body Message Boards

91CamaroRS305 · 12-04-2003, 09:01 PM

i took the AIR stuff off my car and what to know if i can run the car without AIR or will it run funny? or can i bypass the stuff and not worry about it(i did a search and didnt get the exact answer i wanted)

five7kid · 12-04-2003, 11:32 PM

The TPI system doesn't rely on the A.I.R. system for anything. The only effect will be the quality of what goes out the tailpipes.

ShiftyCapone · 12-05-2003, 04:48 PM

Take it out an free up some wieght and space.

91CamaroRS305 · 12-05-2003, 06:33 PM

thanks five7 that is the exact answer i was looking for, all the other answers from old posts are complicated and them 2 or 3 guys end up fighting over something

92BLKL98 · 12-05-2003, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by five7kid
The TPI system doesn't rely on the A.I.R. system for anything. The only effect will be the quality of what goes out the tailpipes.

and that's not much. My Z tested as clean as ever. (the new cats probably didn't hurt). Ditch the dead weight, but only if your state doesn't do a visual inspection.

NJITIROC · 12-05-2003, 08:04 PM

just one more vote so you can make a confident decision. my car doesnt have the A.I.R. system anymore and passed emissions in Jersey with flying colors. i ended up failing for a faulty third brake light

91CamaroRS305 · 12-05-2003, 09:25 PM

thats cool, yeah i plan on getting it really clean runnning and my state only does visuals if you fail 3 times, i know my buddy is going thru the same prob with his 90 RS but he has all the AIR stuff and cant pass

five7kid · 12-05-2003, 10:37 PM

Shall I put my 15-year-old on and have him point out all the logical fallacies of the peceding statements?

Functioning A.I.R. helps clean up the exhaust. Period. Whether it is needed in order for the exhaust to be "clean enough", or whether it is sufficient to make the exhaust "clean enough" doesn't prove anything.

You'll save more weight by cleaning all the trash out of your trunk. Or putting 2 fewer gallons in the tank.

Can't argue that it makes changing plugs harder. Don't do that very often, though, typically.

Z dude · 12-08-2003, 04:15 PM

does this include a block off plate for the EGR? or can you not plug that and the vacume lines to it??

Sunny RS · 12-08-2003, 05:20 PM

how about Tbi does it rely on air?

ShiftyCapone · 12-08-2003, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sunny RS
how about Tbi does it rely on air?

Nope. Just make sure you keep those wires from getting tangled up in anything since they will no longer be plugged in.

87camaro kid · 12-10-2003, 02:11 PM

NJITIROC i see ur in NJ so am i and im thinking about taking the air system out but if i take that out can i still have a cat or no and do u have a cat on ur car?

87camaroz28310 · 12-11-2003, 12:19 PM

i'm from jersey to and my TPI doesnt have the air system hooked up and it runs fine and my buddys tBI didnt have it hooked up either so it's all good

87camaro kid · 12-11-2003, 01:08 PM

what about running a converter with it?

NJITIROC · 12-11-2003, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 87camaro kid
what about running a converter with it?

yep i have my cat in there still. and i plan on keeping it in.

87camaro kid · 12-11-2003, 01:41 PM

and it runs fine with out the air? i plane on putting a cut out right before the cat so i guess i might as well keep it plus im having headers put in also

87camaroz28310 · 12-15-2003, 02:05 PM

i bought an aftermaket cat after i put the headers and my cat back system on and i just have one thing to tell you if you are gonna kept your cat get a high flow name brand one cause if not you might end up like me i blew the inside of 2 of them into piece and then just said screw it and hollowed it out

87camaro kid · 12-15-2003, 03:19 PM

im not ganna even bother with a cat ill wait till inspection and throw one on ill probably jsut end up having an exhaust shop cut out a peace of pip long enough to fit were the cat would go

anesthes · 12-15-2003, 09:18 PM

Quote:

The TPI system doesn't rely on the A.I.R. system for anything. The only effect will be the quality of what goes out the tailpipes.

Wrong.. The TPI system accounts for the air injection by adding 100mv to the o2 readings. So when you remove the air injection, but the computer still thinks its there you run 100mv LEANER. Obviously this kills performance.

You can modify this setting in the prom, or you can reconnect your air..

If anyone would like to chime in and tell me i'm wrong, I'll be glad to post the section of code from the bin where this happens.

-- Joe

87camaroz28310 · 12-16-2003, 10:55 AM

wouldnt that make the car run leaner equal out the fact that they run rich from the factory and make the car run semi close to were it should be, because i have been told they run quite rich from the factory

ShiftyCapone · 12-16-2003, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 87camaroz28310
wouldnt that make the car run leaner equal out the fact that they run rich from the factory and make the car run semi close to were it should be, because i have been told they run quite rich from the factory

They don't all run rich. GM did not set the fuel pressure consistantly on any of their cars. And two cars side by side will in most cases test differently. That is more so for TBI car's though. Not sure about TPI's but I do know that LT1's come quite rich.

five7kid · 12-16-2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by anesthes
Wrong.. The TPI system accounts for the air injection by adding 100mv to the o2 readings. So when you remove the air injection, but the computer still thinks its there you run 100mv LEANER. Obviously this kills performance.

You can modify this setting in the prom, or you can reconnect your air.

Interesting, since the A.I.R. is routed to the cat, which is downstream of the O2 sensor, in closed loop.

I don't know for certain, but my guess would be the 100mV is added to compensate for line loss.

anesthes · 12-16-2003, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Interesting, since the A.I.R. is routed to the cat, which is downstream of the O2 sensor, in closed loop.

I don't know for certain, but my guess would be the 100mV is
added to compensate for line loss.

I used to think the same thing about divert to cat only in closed loop.

Air is routed to the cat, the manifolds, and to the atmosphere. I was going over the code in teh $8D and it flips the solenoids and diverts it different places all over. There is no way of telling
when its doing what while driving - the fact is, removing the air will get a false 02 reading and cause less fuel to be dumped, which will cause a lean condition at certain points.

-- Joe

Vader · 12-17-2003, 07:25 AM

Not to argue, but just curious since this topic appears frequently. What addresses are those O² offsets? I'm using $32 (and B) and haven't encountered that. I've got a lot of other PROM masks but haven't bothered to hack them all out. You could save me a lot of time.

anesthes · 12-17-2003, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Not to argue, but just curious since this topic appears frequently. What addresses are those O² offsets? I'm using $32 (and B) and haven't encountered that. I've got a lot of other PROM masks but haven't bothered to hack them all out. You could save me a lot of time.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/show...hreadid=214321 (Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications)

Tim outlined it here.. I've researched, and he's right.

-- Joe

TRAXION · 12-17-2003, 01:19 PM

First set of $32 AIR mangement constants ...

Code:

***************************************************
* >>> Air Injection Managment Tables & Param's <<<
*
***************************************************
LC2FF: FCB 00 ; Max Air to ports if in Pwr Enrich
; If In WOT >= then divert Air, (Sec)
;
LC300: FCB 10 ; Divert if If RPM Cont > ____ > 10 SEC
; Cal = Arg * 10, (1 Sec)
;
LC301: FCB 170 ; If Filtered o2 > 0.752 vdc for ___
; Then divert
; Cal = Arg * 226
LC302: FCB 56 ; If Filtered o2 0.247 vdc & in closed loop
; > Then divert
; Cal = Arg * 226
;
LC303: FDB 200 ; 20 sec Rich or Lean o2 Divert timer
; Cal = Arg * 10
;
LC305: FCB 160 ; Divert if cont > 4000 RPM & time >
;
LC306: FCB 10 ; Enable air to conv If > 1 SEC since
; last neg delta LV8 > is <
;
LC307: FCB 25 ; If LV8 < 25 then Divert
LC308: FCB 100 ; If LV8 > 100 & MPH > Divert Air
LC309: FCB 60 ; If > 60 MPH & LV8 > then divert
;
LC30A: FCB 64 ; Enable air to conv if in open lp
; & 100 Msec Drop in LV8 < 64
;
LC30B: FCB 73 ; If Cool < 14c, (58.5f) then divert
; Cal = (Arg + 40) * 256/192
LC30C: FCB 254 ; If in Open Lp => 25.4 Sec after
; closed loop then Divert
; Cal = Arg * 10
***************************************************

TRAXION · 12-17-2003, 01:20 PM

Second set (102mV difference for BUA / $32)

Code:

LC562: FCB 23 ; Diff Value to Make up Rich/Lean Window
; When Air div, CALIB = Arg * 226, (.102 VDC)