Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
12-12-2003, 11:42 AM
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Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
Found some cool stuff while looking through the code today. It seems that whenever the AIR management system diverts air then the ECM changes the O2 sensor thresholds by 100mV. This, logically, makes a lot of sense. If the ECM is basing INTegrator updates off of the O2mV then it needs to account for the extra oxygen in the exhaust. This is done by subtracting 100mV from the R/L threshold. Thus, the INTegrator will not change even though the O2 sensor is registering more oxygen in the exhaust.
What does this mean?
Well, if you removed the AIR pump then you are going to be running leaner than 14.7 whenever the ECM is commanding for AIR to be diverted to the exhaust manifolds. This is because the O2mV threshold has been reduced ... but you don't have the extra O2 in the exhaust that would require this change in threshold. So, the INT will subtract fuel to get the O2 voltage within the proper range (which is now 100mV lower).
To rectify this situation there are a couple choices:
1) Change the mV that is subtracted from the Rich/Lean Threshold. Change the constant at 849D (DIFF R/L WHEN AIR DIVERTED) from 100mV to 0mV.
Or, the better way,
2) Disable AIR completely. As far as I can tell, change the minimum temperature for AIR at 839A from 14.75 deg C to 254 degrees C.
My guess is that if you have removed AIR from your car and have not disabled AIR then the BLMs will be a little more erratic than if the system was disabled. Why? Because AIR is not always diverted. Thus, sometimes the INT will be based off of the O2 threshold and sometimes it will be based off of the O2 threshold minus 100mV.
Sweet.
Tim
What does this mean?
Well, if you removed the AIR pump then you are going to be running leaner than 14.7 whenever the ECM is commanding for AIR to be diverted to the exhaust manifolds. This is because the O2mV threshold has been reduced ... but you don't have the extra O2 in the exhaust that would require this change in threshold. So, the INT will subtract fuel to get the O2 voltage within the proper range (which is now 100mV lower).
To rectify this situation there are a couple choices:
1) Change the mV that is subtracted from the Rich/Lean Threshold. Change the constant at 849D (DIFF R/L WHEN AIR DIVERTED) from 100mV to 0mV.
Or, the better way,
2) Disable AIR completely. As far as I can tell, change the minimum temperature for AIR at 839A from 14.75 deg C to 254 degrees C.
My guess is that if you have removed AIR from your car and have not disabled AIR then the BLMs will be a little more erratic than if the system was disabled. Why? Because AIR is not always diverted. Thus, sometimes the INT will be based off of the O2 threshold and sometimes it will be based off of the O2 threshold minus 100mV.
Sweet.
Tim
Last edited by TRAXION; 12-12-2003 at 11:46 AM.
12-12-2003, 11:47 AM
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intresting.. would that be enough of a diff to see a increase in hwy miliage?
because after i removed the air pump, my MPG went up.... not a whole lot, but def up...
because after i removed the air pump, my MPG went up.... not a whole lot, but def up...
12-12-2003, 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by MrDude_1
intresting.. would that be enough of a diff to see a increase in hwy miliage?
because after i removed the air pump, my MPG went up.... not a whole lot, but def up...
intresting.. would that be enough of a diff to see a increase in hwy miliage?
because after i removed the air pump, my MPG went up.... not a whole lot, but def up...
Tim
12-12-2003, 12:23 PM
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Probably a dumb question, but where or what table in Tunercat do you change to disable AIR ? Or can you even do that in tunercat?
Sorry, but I looked in Tunercat and cant find it !
Sorry, but I looked in Tunercat and cant find it !
12-12-2003, 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by 1bad91Z
Probably a dumb question, but where or what table in Tunercat do you change to disable AIR ? Or can you even do that in tunercat?
Sorry, but I looked in Tunercat and cant find it !
Probably a dumb question, but where or what table in Tunercat do you change to disable AIR ? Or can you even do that in tunercat?
Sorry, but I looked in Tunercat and cant find it !
Tim
12-13-2003, 10:05 AM
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Tim,
Ive posted before in here if the 02 takes in account what the pump is pumping into the exhaust, but everyone was like "no".. Glad you found out..
...but...
Does the mv change by .100 only when AIR is directed to the manifolds? Or when its directed to the cat? Or Both?
It would seem to not make sense to mess with 02 voltage when air is diverted to the cat.
Also remember, in PE AIR goes to divert to atmosphere (filtered)
If I remember correctly when I was messing with it for emissions, after closed loop air never goes to the manifolds.
-- Joe
Ive posted before in here if the 02 takes in account what the pump is pumping into the exhaust, but everyone was like "no".. Glad you found out..
...but...
Does the mv change by .100 only when AIR is directed to the manifolds? Or when its directed to the cat? Or Both?
It would seem to not make sense to mess with 02 voltage when air is diverted to the cat.
Also remember, in PE AIR goes to divert to atmosphere (filtered)
If I remember correctly when I was messing with it for emissions, after closed loop air never goes to the manifolds.
-- Joe
Last edited by anesthes; 12-13-2003 at 10:08 AM.
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12-13-2003, 12:18 PM
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Technically, 100mV (102mv for ARAP) gets subtracted from the rich/lean threshold ... not from the A/D O2 sensor voltage. This basically yields a threshold that is leaner during AIR Management ... which is what we would expect now that more O2 is in the exhaust.
As far as I can tell, this is only done when air is injected into the manifolds, not at the cat. There are three sections where this happens. They all access #2 of L003F which is I believe just the manifold bit. Bit 1 is '1' when air is being injected to the manifolds and not diverted to the atmosphere. Bit 2 is '1' when air is injected at the cat and not diverted to the atmosphere. I believe that #2 of L003F is Bit 1? Can anyone clarify this?
XXXX X00X for everything diverted
XXXX X11X for Air at the manifolds and Cat
XXXX X01X for Air at the manifolds and NOT at the Cat
XXXX X10X for Air at the cat and NOT at the manifolds
Notice that bit 1 doesn't mean the first bit. It's actually the second bit because the first bit is bit 0.
Example code
As far as I can tell, from the code and from previous scanned logs, Air does go to the manifolds during closed loop as specified in the previous post about low load situations...
Tim
As far as I can tell, this is only done when air is injected into the manifolds, not at the cat. There are three sections where this happens. They all access #2 of L003F which is I believe just the manifold bit. Bit 1 is '1' when air is being injected to the manifolds and not diverted to the atmosphere. Bit 2 is '1' when air is injected at the cat and not diverted to the atmosphere. I believe that #2 of L003F is Bit 1? Can anyone clarify this?
XXXX X00X for everything diverted
XXXX X11X for Air at the manifolds and Cat
XXXX X01X for Air at the manifolds and NOT at the Cat
XXXX X10X for Air at the cat and NOT at the manifolds
Notice that bit 1 doesn't mean the first bit. It's actually the second bit because the first bit is bit 0.
Example code
Code:
LDAA $8496 ; 0.60 V FAST o2 R/L THRES AT IDLE BRSET L003F,#2,LC9D0 ; BR IF AIR CONTROLED, 0 = DIVERT SUBA $849D ; 0.10 V DIFF R/L WHEN AIR DIVERTED
Code:
;-------------- ; Low Load mode ;-------------- LDAA L0079 ; MAP for Spd/Dens calc CMPA $8396 ; 20 Kpa MAP DIVERT IF MAP LT BCS LD6B5 ; ; .... else CMPA $8397 ; 60 Kpa, DIVERT AIR IF MAP GT BLS LD69C ; ; ... else LDAA L0081 ; CMPA $8398 ; 60 MPH, DIVERT AIR IF MPH GT 60 Kpa ; & MAP L8397 BHI LD6B5 ; DIVERT ;------------- ; OPN/CLS LOOP ;-------------- LD69C LDAB L003E ; AIR MODE WD BMI LD6A6 ;------------- ; PORTS ;-------------- LD6A0 LDAB L003F ; MAJOR MD WD ORAB #$06 ; SET ; B1 1 = AIR CONTROLED ; B2 1 = AIR
12-13-2003, 12:50 PM
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Tdf edited. Thanks Tim.
-- Joe
-- Joe
Last edited by anesthes; 12-13-2003 at 01:07 PM.
12-14-2003, 09:18 AM
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I have always wondered how that was handled, The same thing I was worried about with my crankcase evacuators. If you have a bad leaking valve cover or such it will let you know quick by sending BLM to 160 and burning your eyes out.
But long as your engine is decently sealed it works great. But I also found if you get a little blowby then it reads slightly richer
But long as your engine is decently sealed it works great. But I also found if you get a little blowby then it reads slightly richer
12-14-2003, 11:22 AM
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Do you know where and/or if it can be disabled in the $6E 165 ECM?
Last edited by eric305TPI; 12-14-2003 at 01:34 PM.
12-14-2003, 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by eric305TPI
Do you know where and/or if it can be disabled in the $6E 165 ECM?
Do you know where and/or if it can be disabled in the $6E 165 ECM?
Code:
;==============================================
; AIR INJECTION PARAM'S
;
;==============================================
LC318 FCB 0 ; 0 sec's, MAX AIR TO PORTS IF IN PWR ENRICH
; IF IN WOT >= then DIVERT AIR
; CAL = sec's x 10
;
LC319 FCB 10 ; 1 sec. IF RPM GT LC31E FOR THIS TIME, DIVERT AIR
;
LC31A FCB 170 ; 752 mvdc, IF o2 GT THRESH, DIVERT AIR
; Cal = Arg * 226
;
LC31B FCB 56 ; 247 mvdc, If Filt o2 lt thresh & CLSD LOOP FOR
; LC31C sec's, then DIVERT
; Cal = Arg * 226
;
;
LC31C FDB 200 ; 20 sec, Rich or Lean o2 Divert timer
; Cal = Arg * 10
;
LC31E FCB 177 ; 4425 RPM, Divert if RPM GT THRES & FOR
; LC31C sec's
;
LC31F FCB 10 ; Enable air to conv If > 1 SEC since
; last neg delta LV8 > is <
;
LC320 FCB 25 ; 25, IF LV8 LT THRESH, DIVERT AIR
LC321 FCB 100 ; 100, IF LV8 GT THRESH0 & MPH > DIVERT AIR
LC322 FCB 60 ; 60 MPH, If GT THRESH & LV8 > then divert
;
LC323 FCB 64 ; 64, ENABLE AIR TO CONV IF IN OPEN LP
; & 100 MSEC DROP IN LV8 < 64
;
LC324 FCB 73 ; 14c COOL, IF LT THRESH, DIVERT AIR
; Cal = (arg + 40) * 256/192
;
LC325 FCB 254 ; 25.4 sec's, IF IN OPEN LP GT THRESH AFTER
; CLOSED LOOP THEN DIVERT
; Cal = arg * 10 Tim
12-14-2003, 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by 87_TA
I have always wondered how that was handled, The same thing I was worried about with my crankcase evacuators. If you have a bad leaking valve cover or such it will let you know quick by sending BLM to 160 and burning your eyes out.
But long as your engine is decently sealed it works great. But I also found if you get a little blowby then it reads slightly richer
I have always wondered how that was handled, The same thing I was worried about with my crankcase evacuators. If you have a bad leaking valve cover or such it will let you know quick by sending BLM to 160 and burning your eyes out.
But long as your engine is decently sealed it works great. But I also found if you get a little blowby then it reads slightly richer
Tim
12-14-2003, 04:49 PM
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Originally posted by TRAXION
What do you mean by crankcase evacuator? Do you mean a breather? If so, then I don't think that makes sense? I'm running a breather on each valve cover with no problems at all. Furthermore, more importantly, the stock setup pulls fresh air from the throttle body (basically just a routed breather AFTER the MAF).
Tim
What do you mean by crankcase evacuator? Do you mean a breather? If so, then I don't think that makes sense? I'm running a breather on each valve cover with no problems at all. Furthermore, more importantly, the stock setup pulls fresh air from the throttle body (basically just a routed breather AFTER the MAF).
Tim
12-14-2003, 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by TRAXION
What do you mean by crankcase evacuator? Do you mean a breather? If so, then I don't think that makes sense? I'm running a breather on each valve cover with no problems at all. Furthermore, more importantly, the stock setup pulls fresh air from the throttle body (basically just a routed breather AFTER the MAF).
Tim
What do you mean by crankcase evacuator? Do you mean a breather? If so, then I don't think that makes sense? I'm running a breather on each valve cover with no problems at all. Furthermore, more importantly, the stock setup pulls fresh air from the throttle body (basically just a routed breather AFTER the MAF).
Tim
Not a breather.... A crankcase evacuator!
It uses vacuum from a venturi if you will, welded approx 1" after the primaries tubes in the header creating vacuum from the exhaust stream.
How a venturi workes is: air being passed over an opening (even though subject to preasure) causes a vacuum in the venturi. You then route that to your valve covers allowing you to have negative pressure in your crankcase. Much more effective than a breather - because pressure spikes in the bottom end causes oil to be splashed about all of the rotating assembly.
Also with breathers, oil leaks drips are common arount the front and rear seals and much less likely with negative pressure .
You would be surprised how much vacuum they can pull even with exhaust on.
So I hope it makes perfect sense to you now if you have a bad oil leak that would introduce fresh air into the crankcase which is then pulled into my header will and has caused o2 to falsely read
a/f.
I have unhooked them to see how bad it would effect 02, is does so very bad, just like a bad collector gasket does.
Last edited by 87_TA; 12-14-2003 at 05:30 PM.
12-14-2003, 05:10 PM
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here ya go..
Moroso Crankcase Evac System
A great way to clean out your crankcase.
These Moroso crankcase evac systems reduce crankcase pressure throughout the entire rpm range for increased piston ring seal, reduced intake charge contamination, and fewer oil leaks. They've been track and dyno tested to produce significant increases in engine performance. Includes two of each of o...
Moroso Crankcase Evac System
A great way to clean out your crankcase.
These Moroso crankcase evac systems reduce crankcase pressure throughout the entire rpm range for increased piston ring seal, reduced intake charge contamination, and fewer oil leaks. They've been track and dyno tested to produce significant increases in engine performance. Includes two of each of o...
12-14-2003, 07:59 PM
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Trax where can I find the hack for the $6e if that is what you are looking at or is that a $32 one.
12-14-2003, 09:45 PM
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Another question. When it refers to divert in the comment does that mean to atmosphere or to manifold??????
12-14-2003, 11:38 PM
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Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
Engine: 350, ZZ4 equivalent
Transmission: Pro-Built Road Race 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.23 Dana 44
I am running a heated O2 and I have removed the smog setup. The control for the heater is run off pin A3 on the ECM (Vader’s diagram). Would setting the minimum temperature for AIR at 839A from 14.75 deg C to 254 degrees C make the O2 heater never to come on? An ECM test bench would really come in handy right about now.
12-15-2003, 12:40 PM
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Car: 1989 Iroc-Z
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Transmission: Pro-Built Road Race 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.23 Dana 44
I emailed tunercat and they added "AIR Divert Enable Coolant Temp." and "AIR Divert O2 mV Rich/Lean Thresh Reduc." constants to the Constants table in the $8D calibration.
Edit: Ignore this, i pin A3 is not the smog solenoid
Edit: Ignore this, i pin A3 is not the smog solenoid
Last edited by 89 Iroc Z; 12-15-2003 at 04:26 PM.
12-15-2003, 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by 89 Iroc Z
I emailed tunercat and they added "AIR Divert Enable Coolant Temp." and "AIR Divert O2 mV Rich/Lean Thresh Reduc." constants to the Constants table in the $8D calibration.
I emailed tunercat and they added "AIR Divert Enable Coolant Temp." and "AIR Divert O2 mV Rich/Lean Thresh Reduc." constants to the Constants table in the $8D calibration.
I asked him to over the weekend. TC is always really good about adding stuff. Kudos to TC!!!Tim
12-15-2003, 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by 1bad91Z
Is the CCP % added to the new TDF as well? (forced idle cell 4)
Is the CCP % added to the new TDF as well? (forced idle cell 4)
Tim
12-15-2003, 03:52 PM
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I am running a heated O2 and I have removed the smog setup. The control for the heater is run off pin A3 on the ECM (Vader’s diagram). Would setting the minimum temperature for AIR at 839A from 14.75 deg C to 254 degrees C make the O2 heater never to come on? An ECM test bench would really come in handy right about now.
-- Joe
12-23-2003, 06:30 PM
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Real World experience: FWIW, I disabled AIR by setting the Min Temp enable to 151d C. This worked like a charm. Both AIR to Manifolds and AIR to Cats was never demanded by the ECM as verified via Datamaster and a 20min drive in both City Traffic and Highway, and open and closed loop.
Tim
Tim
12-23-2003, 07:37 PM
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I was asking this myself. Since I know in real world degrees celcius the highest it goes is 151.25 which is FF in hex. That make sense?
12-23-2003, 11:22 PM
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Hey Tim I made the change to the TDF at the location you specified and it looks great. I will test it tomorrow in car. How would I check to make sure everything is corresponding well without testing in car or on the bench if any?
12-23-2003, 11:36 PM
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I guess I'm not understanding the big deal here. I thought the only time you get AIR to the manifolds is in warm-up "mode", therefore, the time that you would be getting the added O2 before the O2 sensor would only be 2 minutes at most (Should only take 2 mins for an unheated O2 to get to sufficient operating temp, around 600-800 degrees F, and about 30 secs for a heated one).
I may be missing the point, because I haven't studied the code, but I'm going by what I've been taught in the general repair field.
This may be one of those many things that REALLY deviates from the stock type programming that I deal with day in and day out!
I may be missing the point, because I haven't studied the code, but I'm going by what I've been taught in the general repair field.
This may be one of those many things that REALLY deviates from the stock type programming that I deal with day in and day out!
12-24-2003, 07:41 AM
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Originally posted by Badas.sbird
Hey Tim I made the change to the TDF at the location you specified and it looks great. I will test it tomorrow in car. How would I check to make sure everything is corresponding well without testing in car or on the bench if any?
Hey Tim I made the change to the TDF at the location you specified and it looks great. I will test it tomorrow in car. How would I check to make sure everything is corresponding well without testing in car or on the bench if any?
Tim
12-24-2003, 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by JP84Z430HP
I guess I'm not understanding the big deal here. I thought the only time you get AIR to the manifolds is in warm-up "mode"
I guess I'm not understanding the big deal here. I thought the only time you get AIR to the manifolds is in warm-up "mode"
Tim
12-24-2003, 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by TRAXION
That's the problem. That statement is not entirely true. I have tons of datalogs with AIR being injected during normal driving. This is AIR being injected at the manifolds ... which DOES affect the O2 sensor. Furthermore, this happens A LOT. This is not just a simple inject at the manifolds every now and then. It happens a lot. On the other hand, I think your statement is true for AIR being injected at the Catalytic Converter. None of my scans show AIR being injected at the converter during normal driving after warmup.
Tim
That's the problem. That statement is not entirely true. I have tons of datalogs with AIR being injected during normal driving. This is AIR being injected at the manifolds ... which DOES affect the O2 sensor. Furthermore, this happens A LOT. This is not just a simple inject at the manifolds every now and then. It happens a lot. On the other hand, I think your statement is true for AIR being injected at the Catalytic Converter. None of my scans show AIR being injected at the converter during normal driving after warmup.
Tim
I guess I just never realized that! I'm glad to know it though, since I most likely will not have AIR on my car. I know it doesn't need to, but it just doesn't make much sense to me to inject AIR into the manifolds after warm-up. Gotta love some of the crazy stuff GM does! From what I have learned in the auto repair aspect of things, the AIR to the manifolds was just used to help heat the O2. Although, now that I think about it, the LT1's have AIR, and heated O2's. I suppose that answers my next question, about whether they do it on newer vehicles.....
Looks like I need to spend a whole lot more time in the code, learning it, so that I MIGHT one day know what's going on!
I definately understand the basics of how it all works, and even some of the semi-advanced stuff, but this one is in a new monster, and I don't think I'm really gonna have to deal with it. Maybe I can just get rid of a few lines of code that will no longer be needed? It will take some time before I know the code that well, but that's the direction I want to go!
Thanks for all the time you put into all of this stuff Trax, it really helps the guys like me that are just learning!
12-26-2003, 01:43 AM
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Originally posted by JP84Z430HP
I guess I just never realized that! I'm glad to know it though, since I most likely will not have AIR on my car. I know it doesn't need to, but it just doesn't make much sense to me to inject AIR into the manifolds after warm-up. Gotta love some of the crazy stuff GM does! From what I have learned in the auto repair aspect of things, the AIR to the manifolds was just used to help heat the O2. Although, now that I think about it, the LT1's have AIR, and heated O2's. I suppose that answers my next question, about whether they do it on newer vehicles.....
I guess I just never realized that! I'm glad to know it though, since I most likely will not have AIR on my car. I know it doesn't need to, but it just doesn't make much sense to me to inject AIR into the manifolds after warm-up. Gotta love some of the crazy stuff GM does! From what I have learned in the auto repair aspect of things, the AIR to the manifolds was just used to help heat the O2. Although, now that I think about it, the LT1's have AIR, and heated O2's. I suppose that answers my next question, about whether they do it on newer vehicles.....
Originally posted by 11sORbust
I am not aware of any ecu/tdfs that have the constant to disable air. I don't know how to manually edit hex(or whatever)..
I am not aware of any ecu/tdfs that have the constant to disable air. I don't know how to manually edit hex(or whatever)..
Last edited by 89 Iroc Z; 12-26-2003 at 01:46 AM.
06-04-2006, 08:11 PM
#34
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Car: 1993 Caprice wagon "Shammoo"
Engine: tpi'd 406, with P4 ebl EBL 730 ECM
Transmission: custom "4L65" swap.
Axle/Gears: 3.42:1 with posi
I'm coming in one this subject three years later with essentially the same lack of understanding as when I started reading this.
I have a TBI to TPI conversion controlled with a 730 ECM and am using the latest version Tunerpro RT To reprogram for the fact that I've removed the AIR system seems like a good thing to consider, but I still can't find the chart, map table etc in Tunerpro Rt to modify disable the AIR system aspects of the computer. I don't know code. If I can turn it off or disable it from a flag or map, Ii can propably handle that.
I have a TBI to TPI conversion controlled with a 730 ECM and am using the latest version Tunerpro RT To reprogram for the fact that I've removed the AIR system seems like a good thing to consider, but I still can't find the chart, map table etc in Tunerpro Rt to modify disable the AIR system aspects of the computer. I don't know code. If I can turn it off or disable it from a flag or map, Ii can propably handle that.
Last edited by lakeffect2; 06-05-2006 at 07:01 AM.
06-04-2006, 11:29 PM
#35
Go to the TP site and get the super_8dm2 ecu file from the bin definition section of the downloads. Then import it via the xdf "tab" at the top of TP.
The very first constant should be Air enable minimum Temp.
You can thank 69 Ghost for the ecu file......
The very first constant should be Air enable minimum Temp.
You can thank 69 Ghost for the ecu file......
06-05-2006, 06:29 AM
#36
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Car: 1993 Caprice wagon "Shammoo"
Engine: tpi'd 406, with P4 ebl EBL 730 ECM
Transmission: custom "4L65" swap.
Axle/Gears: 3.42:1 with posi
Apparently I had an earlier version of the definition which does not show that entry as the first constant. I went to the Tunerpro site and found the "super" definition.
I had some trouble downloading it until I dragged it screaming and kicking onto my desktop. Prior to that, if I clicked on it. I could see the entry, but was not able to capture the information in a manner which I could download into my computer . I just saw it as a worksheet.
The new listing has all the constants flags and tables in alphabetical order whereas the old one was not. So if anyone is reading this meassage take a look at your Super-8dm file. If the entries are not alphabetical, then you have an older copy of the file. You might want to update it as well.
Thanks to Z69 and Ghost for the help! Another mystery has been solved.
So If i get the rest of this message correctly, I need to crank the enable temperature way up to "disable" the A.I.R. system. It is showing up as 140C before I start playing with it. Seems like 151.25 is as high as it will go in the program.
This also answers why I couldn't find the VATS turn off field as well.... old definition file,. Thanks boys!
I had some trouble downloading it until I dragged it screaming and kicking onto my desktop. Prior to that, if I clicked on it. I could see the entry, but was not able to capture the information in a manner which I could download into my computer . I just saw it as a worksheet.
The new listing has all the constants flags and tables in alphabetical order whereas the old one was not. So if anyone is reading this meassage take a look at your Super-8dm file. If the entries are not alphabetical, then you have an older copy of the file. You might want to update it as well.
Thanks to Z69 and Ghost for the help! Another mystery has been solved.
So If i get the rest of this message correctly, I need to crank the enable temperature way up to "disable" the A.I.R. system. It is showing up as 140C before I start playing with it. Seems like 151.25 is as high as it will go in the program.
This also answers why I couldn't find the VATS turn off field as well.... old definition file,. Thanks boys!
Last edited by lakeffect2; 06-05-2006 at 07:15 AM.
06-05-2006, 11:04 PM
#37
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Anyone have the def. for $6E code? I saw it above but cant do it myself. I downloaded TDFEditor from tunercats site but it needs a password to be unlocked. Any help is welcome.
06-05-2006, 11:16 PM
#38
The above related to Tuner Pro only.
And the included 6E definition for TP doesn't include the min. air temp constant. I'm not real familiar with the 6E and there may be another way to do it.
And the included 6E definition for TP doesn't include the min. air temp constant. I'm not real familiar with the 6E and there may be another way to do it.
10-17-2006, 10:43 AM
#39
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I'm going to bump this to the top to see if anyone else has any idea where the info is on the '165 ecm. I have deleted all my air crap and I would like to tune this out.
11-08-2006, 07:19 PM
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the purpose of the air injection is to speed the heating of the oxygen sensor, then to speed the 3way cat lighting up
check this out then put on a twoway cat
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...ghlight=heated
check this out then put on a twoway cat
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...ghlight=heated
11-08-2006, 10:54 PM
#41
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Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller 236/242
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 2.4K stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break
In the APYP 165 relocatable hac,
Could disable it by the coolant temp.
The main offset for divert is here.
Code:
;*************************************************
;>>> Air Injection Managment Tables & Param's <<<
;
;*************************************************
LC318: .db 0x00 ; Max Air to ports if in Pwr Enrich
; If In WOT >= then divert Air, (Sec)
;
.db 0x0A ; Divert if If RPM Cont > ____ > 10 SEC
; Cal = Arg * 10, (1 Sec)
;
LC31A: .db 0xAA ; If Filtered o2 > 0.752 vdc for time (170 sec)
; Then divert
; Cal = Arg * 226
LC31B: .db 0x38 ; If Filtered o2 < 0.247 vdc & in closed loop for time (56 sec)
; Then divert
; Cal = Arg * 226
;
LC31C: .dw 0x01AE ; 20 sec Rich or Lean o2 Divert timer
; Cal = Arg * 10
;
.db 0xB1 ; Divert if cont > 4000 RPM & time >
;
.db 0x0A ; Enable air to conv If > 1 SEC since
; last neg delta LV8 > is <
LC320: .db 0x19 ; If LV8 < 25 then Divert
LC321: .db 0x64 ; If LV8 > 100 & MPH > Divert Air
LC322: .db 0x3C ; If > 60 MPH & LV8 > then divert
.db 0x40 ; Enable air to conv if in open lp
; & 100 Msec Drop in LV8 < 64
.db 0x49 ; If Cool < 14c, (58.5f) then divert
; Cal = (Arg + 40) * 256/192
.db 0xFE ; If in Open Lp => 25.4 Sec after
; closed loop then Divert
; Cal = Arg * 10
;********************************* The main offset for divert is here.
Code:
LC454: .db 0x17 ; 23d = 100 mv, Diff R/L when air diverted
10-06-2007, 01:19 PM
#42
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Re: Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
Does anyone know how to disable AIR from the 165ecm with $32B code? I'm using tunerpro.
07-10-2008, 05:24 AM
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Re: Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
$32B ABTC_HAC.SRC
;**************************************************
; >>> Air Injection Managment Tables & Param's <<<
;
;**************************************************
LC305: FCB 00 ; if in Pwr Enrich for >= this time then divert Air
; Max Air to ports, (Sec) E * 10
LC306: FCB 10 ; Divert if If RPM Cont > LC30B FOR TIME > this
; Num = Arg * 10, (1 Sec)
LC307: FCB 170 ; If Filtered o2 > 0.752 vdc for LC309
; Then divert
;**************************************************
; >>> Air Injection Managment Tables & Param's <<<
;
;**************************************************
LC305: FCB 00 ; if in Pwr Enrich for >= this time then divert Air
; Max Air to ports, (Sec) E * 10
LC306: FCB 10 ; Divert if If RPM Cont > LC30B FOR TIME > this
; Num = Arg * 10, (1 Sec)
LC307: FCB 170 ; If Filtered o2 > 0.752 vdc for LC309
; Then divert
; Num = Arg * 226
LC308: FCB 56 ; If Filtered o2 0.247 vdc & in closed loop
; > Then divert
; Num = Arg * 226
LC309: FDB 0200 ; 20 sec Rich or Lean o2 Divert timer, (sec * 10)
LC30B: FCB 177 ; Divert if cont > 4000 RPM & time >
LC30C: FCB 10 ; Enable air to conv If > 1 SEC since last neg delta LV8 > is <
LC30D: FCB 25 ; If LV8 < 25 then Divert
LC30E: FCB 100 ; If LV8 > 100 & MPH > Divert Air
LC30F: FCB 60 ; If > 60 MPH & LV8 > then divert
LC310: FCB 64 ; Enable air to conv if in open lp & 100 Msec Drop in LV8 < 64
LC311: FCB 73 ; If Cool T < 14c, (58.5f) then divert
LC312: FCB 254 ; If in Open Lp => 25.4 Sec after
; closed loop then Divert
; Num = Arg * 10
; > Then divert
; Num = Arg * 226
LC309: FDB 0200 ; 20 sec Rich or Lean o2 Divert timer, (sec * 10)
LC30B: FCB 177 ; Divert if cont > 4000 RPM & time >
LC30C: FCB 10 ; Enable air to conv If > 1 SEC since last neg delta LV8 > is <
LC30D: FCB 25 ; If LV8 < 25 then Divert
LC30E: FCB 100 ; If LV8 > 100 & MPH > Divert Air
LC30F: FCB 60 ; If > 60 MPH & LV8 > then divert
LC310: FCB 64 ; Enable air to conv if in open lp & 100 Msec Drop in LV8 < 64
LC311: FCB 73 ; If Cool T < 14c, (58.5f) then divert
LC312: FCB 254 ; If in Open Lp => 25.4 Sec after
; closed loop then Divert
; Num = Arg * 10
;**************************************************
;---------------------------------
; Closed Loop Fuel Cnt'l Param's
;
;
;---------------------------------
LC563 FCB 3 ; Clsed Lp Idle TPS 1.17% Gain Factor
LC564 FCB 16 ; 0.2 sec Added Corr To Int Dly At Idle, (sec * 80)
LC565 FCB 160 ; 0.625, EECC Clsd Lp Gain factor
LC566 FCB 12 ; Diff Value to Make up Rich/Lean Window for Fast o2.(VDC * 226)
; Closed Loop Fuel Cnt'l Param's
;
;
;---------------------------------
LC563 FCB 3 ; Clsed Lp Idle TPS 1.17% Gain Factor
LC564 FCB 16 ; 0.2 sec Added Corr To Int Dly At Idle, (sec * 80)
LC565 FCB 160 ; 0.625, EECC Clsd Lp Gain factor
LC566 FCB 12 ; Diff Value to Make up Rich/Lean Window for Fast o2.(VDC * 226)
LC567 FCB 23 ; Diff Value to Make up Rich/Lean Window When Air div.(VDC * 226)
(air inject offset for lean O2) 100 mv O2 not Diverted
(air inject offset for lean O2) 100 mv O2 not Diverted
LC568 FCB 4 ; 17 mvdc, Min Error To Implement Int.(VDC * 226)
LC569 FCB 224 ; 991 mvdc, Positive Error Gain Factor
LC56A FCB 154 ; o2 Filter Constant when Coolant Tmp Low
LC56B FCB 96 ; 43 Deg c, Cool Int Offset Int GainLC569 FCB 224 ; 991 mvdc, Positive Error Gain Factor
LC56A FCB 154 ; o2 Filter Constant when Coolant Tmp Low
Last edited by pandin; 07-10-2008 at 05:44 AM. Reason: added 100mv
08-11-2008, 06:06 AM
#44
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Re: Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
Exactly what are we supposed to do with that? I remember a while back there was an extended .ecu or .xdf that I ran in Tunerpro that allowed me to modify alot more parameters, whatever happened to this? I don't understand what the text you're giving us here is good for.
08-11-2008, 06:32 AM
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Re: Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
Exactly what are we supposed to do with that? I remember a while back there was an extended .ecu or .xdf that I ran in Tunerpro that allowed me to modify alot more parameters, whatever happened to this? I don't understand what the text you're giving us here is good for.
-- Joe
08-11-2008, 07:02 AM
#46
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Re: Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
Yeah problem is alot of us can't, I added to my .xdf using Tunerpro at address 324 (what it shows in the hac for the ARAP.bin). Now I can turn it from 0 to 255, what's the conversion for this? Can I just set it to 255 and being at the max, it work? It would seem to me that this will be just the same as setting it to 304 degrees or whatever the top end of the CTS is.
08-11-2008, 08:12 AM
#47
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Re: Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
If you have a $32B chip then all that "Exactly what are we supposed to do with that?" relates to all the previous posts for the $8D, it just gives the exact locations for $32B chips only.
The Arap chips ($6E) are similar in type of code but are located at different locations.
Loc31E Air Injection Management Divert if cont > 4000 RPM & time >
Loc320 Air Injection Management If LV8 < 25 then Divert
Loc321 Air Injection Management If LV8 > 100 & MPH > Divert Air
Loc322 Air Injection Management If > 60 MPH & LV8 > then divert
Loc454 Diff Value to Make up Rich/Lean Window When Air div.(VDC *
226) subtracted.
The rest of the $6E code is before or after, what is shown just above.
If you change the $6E bin using $32B information the results will be unpredictable, some loc's are the same some are different.
The $32B code/bin has the "BASE PULSE INJECTION vs LOAD" Tables the $6E does not, so from Loc434 to Loc557 ($32B fuel table is 17 rows times 17 columns) everything is different, those locations and beyond.
The Arap chips ($6E) are similar in type of code but are located at different locations.
Loc31E Air Injection Management Divert if cont > 4000 RPM & time >
Loc320 Air Injection Management If LV8 < 25 then Divert
Loc321 Air Injection Management If LV8 > 100 & MPH > Divert Air
Loc322 Air Injection Management If > 60 MPH & LV8 > then divert
Loc454 Diff Value to Make up Rich/Lean Window When Air div.(VDC *
226) subtracted.
The rest of the $6E code is before or after, what is shown just above.
If you change the $6E bin using $32B information the results will be unpredictable, some loc's are the same some are different.
The $32B code/bin has the "BASE PULSE INJECTION vs LOAD" Tables the $6E does not, so from Loc434 to Loc557 ($32B fuel table is 17 rows times 17 columns) everything is different, those locations and beyond.
08-11-2008, 06:29 PM
#48
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Re: Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
Oh no, I didn't use the 32B stuff, I was reading another post regarding the $6e and the arap bin, that's where I got the address from. I just didn't understand the multiplier at the time, I think I've got it now because when I run the numbers I end up with something like 303.8 which would be the upper limit of the ECM on temprature readings. All I did with this .bin was change the enable temp to the maximum allowable, this should keep the air injection stuff from coming on yet still allow closed loop correct? I was amazed how easy it was to go into Tunerpro and modify the XDF to show me the table I wanted, I've read alot of prom tuning stuff and never heard about this until last night. Is there a guide somewhere on how to do this?
08-13-2008, 06:16 AM
#49
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Re: Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
Oh no, I didn't use the 32B stuff, I was reading another post regarding the $6e and the arap bin, that's where I got the address from. I just didn't understand the multiplier at the time, I think I've got it now because when I run the numbers I end up with something like 303.8 which would be the upper limit of the ECM on temprature readings. All I did with this .bin was change the enable temp to the maximum allowable, this should keep the air injection stuff from coming on yet still allow closed loop correct? I was amazed how easy it was to go into Tunerpro and modify the XDF to show me the table I wanted, I've read alot of prom tuning stuff and never heard about this until last night. Is there a guide somewhere on how to do this?
1.350000 * X + -40.000000
1.350000 * [X] + -40.000000 (the Conversion to Degrees F)
1.350000 * [73 (dec)] or [49 (hex)] + -40.000000 = 58.5 F
1.35 * 255 (dec) -40 = 304.25 F
255 (dec) = FF (hex)
(deg c + 40) * (256/192)
(14 + 40) * 256/192 = 72 (dec)
73 (dec) * 192/256 - 40 = 14.75 c
The bin hack "If Cool T < 14c, (58.5f) then divert"
The Air Pump valve will divert at any temp under the set point of 58.5 F
If you set $6E Loc324 X to 255 (dec) or FF (hex) then the air pump will divert all the time under 303 F.
09-22-2008, 11:43 PM
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Re: Removing Smog pump, AIR: $8D 730 modifications
hello everyone. i have taken most of my air management hoses off. i was wondering what i could use to plug up the two pipes that go to my dash and the one that is on my radiator. also i was wondering how to change your computer so that when the air is removed it doesn't make your car run leaner.