305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Ok, I have read through the boards for hours, but I still cant decide on a header brand. I keep changing my mind lol.

Ok so I have a 305 that I am building up, but only a little. It's never going to be anything too impressive, as it is a daily driver and I am still in school so I have very little money. Right now I have the complete stock system, save for a 2.5" cutout welded in place of the cat. I want headers with 1-5/8" primaries and a 3" y-pipe, but those cost way too much. What I'm wondering is, on the street, what difference will I really see between a set with the afformentioned sizes, versus 1-1/2" headers with a 2-1/2" y pipe? I mean, the exhaust is already restricted down to 2-1/2" when it hits the cutout, and I dont ever intend to do anyhting about that. I just want to make the car more fun to drive, but at the same time, I dont want to buy crappy headers.

So if I got a dynomax set or something, would it really make that much of a difference? What about the headman ones with the "stock collector"?

Sorry for the noob questions, but I am really lost here, and hey, these boards are here to help people...

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Aw, come on, anyone? I just want to know how big the difference is. I know about fitment already, but I mean the difference on the street every day. And headers+rockers = ?

firebirdpl

get hooker 2460s and a custom y pipe

MaxxMitchell

iTrader: (4)

im doing the headman LTs 68460 , on my 350 when it goes back in, but they require a new y pipe to be made, they dont make and sell one for it, well not last time i checked.

they are i belive the 1 5/8" primanries, with 3" collector, jegs has them for just $125.99 uncoated, just painted, through some VHT hitemp on them, and you should be fine for the next 7-10yrs easy, and buy that time u will have dicided to go with something different engine wise or car wise.

Are you going to be installing your self? Im going to fab up my own Y and then buy off the shelf 3" catback, but you could use reducers to make it work with your cut out, but you will have a great base for making that 305 breath and for not a hole lot of cash.

Scroll down to 500-68460, but no pic there, search hedmans site for the pic

Ziggster

why would you wanna put headers on but not do anything about the exhaust? that would kinda kill the point. Save up a little extra money and do the the entire thing you will get the best out of your money.

biff85ta

Hey if you want to see how I did mine check out my cardomain that is in my www link. You can also do a search under my name and you can find out more about how I did mine.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Ok thanks for the help guys. Those ones are right in my price range, but the thought of fabbing a y pipe scares me a bit. I will probably be installing them myself, but if I have to fab a y pipe I might have to take it to a shop for the whole thing. I guess we'll see.

And the reason I am not doing a catback at this time is because my thinking is that I can still have the quiet stock exhaust, and then when I actually want to haul, I can just open the cutout all or part way...

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Woah, that could work, except I cant lose much ground clearance..How much do you lose, biff85ta and MaxxMitchell?

biff85ta

I have never measured it but the only it scrapes is over speed bumps and only a very few of them.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Well the speed bumps around here are real harsh, especially at work. So I think what I might do is get those shorties and make a custom y pipe. I as thinking I might be able to just get a bunch of mandrel bends and flanges and stuff and do it myself? I have access to a welder, and enough skill to do a decent job...

Air_Adam

I got the Hedman shorties, and I love them! They have 1-5/8" tubes with 3" collectors. Old style flange collectors though, not the ball-type. I also have the old style Y-pipe for it too. Its got 2.25" collector pipes, going into a 2.5" main pipe.

***There is a fix for this***

What I did was just chop off the main pipe on the Y-pipe right in the middle of the "Y", right after where the two 2.25" pipes come together. Right in the middle where I cut it, it is 3" diameter. It worked great for me.

I can get you a pic of my modified Y-pipe if youre interested. It will show where I cut it off.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, but I found a pic just now doing a search for custom y pipes, and I think it shows what you're talking about. I also saw that that y pipe you have is like $175.00? That seems a bit much to me..

I was thinking maybe I could buy a y pipe for something else and modify it or something? Actually, on that note, I also saw that they came out with a y pipe for the long tubes, and it's less than a hundred bucks, and I got the impression it was supposed to be fairly good... But then there is the issue of ground clearance again...

So I think I'll get the 2460s and for the y pipe... uhh, I dunno..

biff85ta

As long as the speed bump is not really steep I have no problems. I have only ever found two that I actually scrape on and if I angle across them it isn't a problem then.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Hmm.. I dunno.. my city has some pretty bad roads..
I actually scraped going over a speedbump in the parking lot at work, and I was going really slow, and all I had for weight was one passenger.. That's how bad they are

though I suppose if I did bang 'em, I could just fix them.

Air_Adam

$175? I think I only paid about $100 Canadian for mine, and I got it brand new.

I heard they don't make one like mine anymore though, only the ball-flange style. Only what I heard though, I don't know if its true or not.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Really? my ***.. Where did you get it? If I can get one for even close to that price, I'll jump all over it!

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

If money is truly a concern, but you still wish to improve flow, check the following thread:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=215739

Note the difference between the stock LG4 and L69 y-pipe; considering it's stock, the difference is impressive. The stock L69 intermediate pipe was larger than the after market piece I previously had. Hedders are certainly the best option, but an L69 set-up might save you dough, especially if you could locate something in a yard. I did mine for perhaps $50 plus a high-flow cat.

JamesC

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

That's a good idea, but I dont think I can easily locate one around here, and that's a little too basic for me lol.

I can afford a set of longtubes, or 2460s and a custome y pipe, so I think that's what I'll do. Just need to source a cheaper one than that one for $175.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Yup, found some 68470's and a 17470 y pipe at the local shop, gonna run me $300 CDN for both, plus tax. That's about the same price as some off summit, but I have a summit gift certificate.

Chris5k

I got hooker shorties, wish they made a good y pipe for them.. anyway for $160 from summit like a year or 2 ago they havent been bad, uncoated 1 5/8 to 3" collectors.. have to re torque frequently, I really liked the way mine fit, had no problems with the steering shaft or any nightmares that I read about except the ac and power steering bracket... I bought the slp one.. didnt like the way mine looked after I ground it to fit.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Well I think I'll get locking bolts for mine, and at least I dont have to worry about an AC bracket, and there arent many hoses and things that I will have to move. I just hope my dipstick clears ok...

dual_88s

You guys keep talking about having to retorque the header bolts....


Installed a set of hooker shorty comps (2055's) two years ago. Had to replace them a couple of weeks ago 'cause one of them had a hole in one of the tubes. Sad story.....

See this thread for details...

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=270917


At any rate while taking the old ones off, I checked to see if they were loose first and none of the bolts were loose... still pretty snug.

I think that loosening bolts would probably reflect back to the type of gasket you use..and the gasket drying out and shrinking on you causing there to be space between the header and head.


The gasket I used on the first set (and an the set I just put back on ) are almost LIKE several layers of aluminum foil that compresses down when the bolts are tightened.

Had to look around for a few days to find them again (finally NAPA was able get them based on the part number still visible on the gasket) ....however, the set of headers I got this last time came from Hooker with a set of gaskets that look very similar to what I put on.

KagA152

iTrader: (5)

long tubes and daily driver arent a good idea. 2460 would work, but then you have to do a custom y pipe. i had a set of hedmans that had a y pipe, the same set up air adam is talking about. part number 68470 $135 for the headers, #17470 for the ypipe 98 at summit. with those and an slp cat back, i dropped .7 off my et on an otherwise stock lb9, 14.4, and still on a crappy 2.2 60'

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Well when my shop gets 'em in on wednesday, I'll get the headmans.

Thanks for the help everyone.

biff85ta

I have had mine for over a year and have NO complaints.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

you dont have to drive over speedbumps every weekday that are so bad you scrape sometimes just as it is.

12secformula

I had hedman long tubes and a fabbed up y-pipe and had no complaints. I actually think I gained ground clearance over my factory dual-cat setup. I think you would be happy w/ hedman LT's. My roads are very harsh, and so are the parking lots and this wasn't a problem. Oh, and this was my daily driver.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Ah I'm still leaning towards the shorties because they'll be about the same price, and I wont have to worry about replacing my starter or any of that bs.

12secformula

I know shorties and LT's both have dissadvantages. My stock starter worked w/out a problem w/ the longtubes and the headers fit very well and are easy to install. Its up to you but if I had to do it again I would get the LT's. Thats just my opinion.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Well, six and a half dozen, I guess..

I wonder what the difference is in terms of performance?

12secformula

To be honest w/ you I am not sure. I heard good things about the performance aspects of LT's over shorties, thats why I went w/ them. I don't know the difference they made on performance because I did all my mods at the same time. I also had a couple of friends that had shorties on their 3rd and 4th gen cars and were unimpressed. They switched to LT's very quickly. I am not sure but I believe most guys say they help w/ low-end torque, and what not which i am sure would benefit a mild 305 pretty well.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Hmm.. Maybe I will hold off for a few more days and mull it around then.

12secformula

thats what i would do.... You know purchases are tough when there are even just 2 options cuz nobody wants to make a mistake! I think either way you go you will experience a gain, so rest assured you will be happy w/ either. I suppose if you never plan on building up bigger, or the roads are rougher than rough then go w/ the shorties. If you don't mind goin slow over speedbumps and entering parking lots, and don't mind getting a y-pipe fabbed up then go w/ longtubes.

Air_Adam

Those shorties will let a street driven 305 breathe all it wants. You'll see what I mean if you see a pair.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I agree. It would take a monster 305 to really justify the need for lontubes. There is no reason for a monster 305.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Exactly. I saved myself some money recently by doing some work that I thought I couldnt handle on my own, so I will probably go ahead and tell the shop to order 'em this week.


..And on my birthday, in a week, I will probably get more money, so it's all good.

hehe and I'll finally be of legal drinking age..

Chris5k

If your power steering is v-belt, which is what it looks like from pics on your cardomain page then I think you will still have to fab up something.. correct me if im wrong tho, never seen this belt setup, just assuming that part is the same..

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, it's v-belt. I hear you can just 'mod' it with a grinder though..

Chris5k

with mine it was quite a bit of grinding... we have a 1hp bench grinder, so it wasnt too bad but if you just have a hand held be prepared for some effort, looked like you werent running the a/c compressor so you can actually get around that... ill see if I can find a pic of someones where they cut the whole top part off and then made it so they could mount just the p/s.. in the end I didnt like the way my bracket looked so I bought the slp one.. wasnt much more stout though.

IROCFAST

iTrader: (3)

the edelbrocks would be good for you and they come with a Y-pipe.

Air_Adam

Na, they aren't very good parts, compared to the Hedman setup. The Hedman stuff breathes ALOT better.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

I hear the headman y pipe really sucks though. So what I will probably do is modify it when I get it.


..which may take a while, seeing as I think I just fried my motherboard on my other machine.

IROCFAST

iTrader: (3)

The edelbrocks are a better built peice as far as quality construction, I know, I have had both. They would be more than enough, performance wise, for his 305. I have went over 120mph through 1 5/8 headers many times N/A. Yes the heddman y-pipe for their shorties is a joke, where the pipes come together looks like an accident and the pipe to the convertor is only 2.5" (I have had these also). If you were going to have a Y made or modify theirs, they would be a good choice. Make sure to use a quality gasket with some red RTV because the flange on heddmans sucks. I had to use the $40 dead soft aluminum ones on my heddman LT's.

305q_ta86

iTrader: (1)

The y-pipes look a helluva lot better, but they also cost as much as the headmans + a set of rockers or something..

IROCFAST

iTrader: (3)

you are right on the cost, maybe watch for a set used or like I said, you could really use the heddmans, just use a good gasket and probably have your own Y made.

Air_Adam

I've done that with cast iron manifolds and stock exhaust. Whats your point?

What I was getting at is that the headers Hedman makes for these cars are much better than those made by Edelbrock.

But yes, in stock form, the Hedman Y-pipe does suck, because of the 2.5" main pipe. The cure is to cut it off at the Y-collector so you have a 3" exit. Then your Y-pipe kicks ***. Then just have an exhaust shop fab up a 3" peice to go there (if you buy a catback) or just have the whole exhaust system fabbed from that spot back in 3" pipe, like me.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

305q_ta86: check you pm box, i may have a set of 2460's for you.

IROCFAST

iTrader: (3)

What I should have said it that my IROC has trapped over 120mph in th 1/4 mile with 1 5/8 headers. Saying that, I meant that the edelbrocks would be more than enough for him.

Air_Adam

Ok, trapped at 120mph is different, lol. I don't find that hard to beleive. The Hedman headers are also 1-5/8" though, but they are better than the Edelbrock TES because the collectors are far less restrictive. My Hedman shorties have a full 3" collector, whereas the TES do not.

IMO, the Hedman headers are a better way to spend the money. More potential down the road for whats probably the same money, maybe even less (I'm not real up to date on the prices though, so I could be wrong about that)

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

having a smaller collector will increase velocity, so the smaller collector may not be a bad thing. but you will not be able to take advantage of that without a high revving/high output motor.

only telling you this to let you know that a bigger collector isn't ALWAYS better. look at the stock cars that make 700+ hp out of an n/a small block. pretty impressive. collector design on them looks like an hourglass but they rev to the moon.