Dartht33bagger

I own a 1991 Z28 camaro with a 305 V8 TPI, automatic transmission. Original motor with 154k miles and stock other than a catback exhaust kit put on by the original owner. Now that we know this, here is my question.

Today my friend took me out in his dads 1971 Chevelle that has a 350 V8 in it, headers and 3 inch straight pipes. This thing sounds like a beast when you step on the gas. My car not so much. It sounds pretty nice around 1700 RPM, but anything about that just sound like a high pitch whine, and anything below it sounds like the car isn't running. When you floor it, it sounds nothing like the chevelle, it sounds like a wimpy F1 car.

So now my question. Is it possible to get an exhaust system on my car that sounds like an old muscle car that will still pass oregon emissions tests?

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

edelbrock headers emission legal round $500 and magnaflow muffler
i had a 305 with this set up sounds beeeeeeefffyyy

matthufham

iTrader: (5)

get a cam, remove the cats, get headers, increase size of pipe, and get good mufflers, or in my case no mufflers. i got all the above and its better than any muscle car sound i've ever heard.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

Drop in a cammed 350

juanillox8

iTrader: (7)

he wants to pass emissions with what u suggested he wont

Dartht33bagger

Can't do 350 right now, only 17 and kinda strapped for money and space so dropping a 350 in it would be pretty hard.

As for cam and headers, I can do that. I didn't know cams helped with the sound, learn something new everyday lol. Any particular cams or headers I should be looking for? Links would be helpful for me to get an idea of price range and of brands. Sorry for a stupid question but will a cam transfer to a 350 later? I know headers are bolt on so that's not a problem. Also, how hard is it to install these two parts? Changing the sparks plugs is almost impossible because of all the stuff inside of the engine bay, won't it be almost impossible to get headers in there?

I think the current setup is flowmaster muffer with a 3 inch cat back and single from motor to dual in back.

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

With a/c and air tubes and header yeah its not impossible to do the plugs but it will take a while and #8 is a $(#%&! You could get emissions legal headers and a flowmaster. Its not gonna sound like a muscle car though, your gonna need power to make that kind of sound and also the cam and carb contribute to the sound, as well as not having a catalytic converter.

rybread11

What is involved in the emission testing in oregon? Do they actually messure your emissions, or is it just visual. You could start by removing your cat, take a big stake or a rod of some kind, and pound/punch out your cat. then put is back on. If you already have a flowmaster that should be pretty loud. Actually are you sure you have a flowmaster? I would think it would be louder than you describe it to be, but I don't know for sure, I have a cam,headers,no cat, dual glass packs.

Dartht33bagger

Well we couldn't actually find anything on the muffler itself, however all of the catback pipes are flowmaster, so we assumed that the muffler is too.

In oregon they check to see if you have a cat on your car. Then they test your emissions idling, then at 2500 RPM, then idling again. You have to be under a certain number at each one of these points. They also check for sound levels to make sure it's not too loud.

As for being loud, it is fairly loud. It doesn't have the kick to it though. When I slam the pedal to the floor it sounds 1/4 as strong as a muscle car. What it reminds me of is a weak formula 1 car.

So the carb makes it sound different it? Will TPI not allow a similar sound? I knew that a cat would change the pitch a little bit, but there is no getting around it with a newer car. Does single to dual affect it as well, since the chevelle is full dual?

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

yeah the carb makes it sound different, you can tell a holley from a q-jet to an edelbrock. The cam makes a lot of that sound, the lopey idle that you hear. The biggest thing is POWER, the more horsepower you have the louder its gonna be. Some headers and a flowmaster would make it sound good, but its not gonna sound like a muscle car without a muscle car motor, know what I mean?

Air_Adam

If you are just after the sound, the easiest, cheapest and fastest solution is just have a cutout put on it. Have one welded into the exhaust right before it goes over the rear axle, under the back seats. A cutout only costs about $30. I put one on my otherwise stock '97 LT1 a few weeks ago, and it sounds really nice, and isn't even quite as loud as I thought it would be (though make no mistake, its ALOT louder than a stock GM exhaust system)

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Depends on what you mean by the "muscle car" sound. I mean muscle cars have V8s just like yours. Are you talking about that cammed sound? The headers-free flowing exhaust sound? The glasspack sound? The flowmaster sound?

Im not sure how a carb could affect the sound... you can really hear the difference between a holley and an edelbrock?

Dartht33bagger

My car already sounds great during idle and up till about 1700 RPM. Anything above 1700 and it just sounds airy though. The low pitch drops off totally, and it just sounded like a really high pitch airy noise. What I'd like to hear is something like this towards the end: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DZJdvKOneQ

When I really get on the gas on my car, it doesn't sound beefy anymore. It only stays beefy sounding when idling, take off from a light, or climbing a hill and keeping about 1700 RPM.

88gta3508

1.6 rockers,,,after market valve covers for clearance.. super trap or equivalent exhaust. high flow Cat.. 350 eprom .. high flow air filter ..I did the above minus 1.6 rockers
it sounded very good!! without headers.. I added 3.73 gears it ran 14.3 @95.6
when I had a stock High mileage 305...

GeneralLC

You want a glasspack. It sounds like that's what the Chevelle in the video has.

Here are two examples of a 305 with a glasspack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFUKg1FzZHk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdCxR_x6ZCo

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Definitely glasspacks on that Chevelle.

As for your Camaro, for a loud, emissions-legal exhaust I'd suggest headers, free-flowing cat(since you have the sniffer to deal with), and a glasspack(s) with at least a 3" exhaust. Or do duals from the cat back. If you really want it to sound like a particular car though, you gotta have the same setup. At least a bigger engine(350) in your case.

Dartht33bagger

Ok so it sounds like glass packs are in. How hard are those to install? Any links to good ones?

My dad and grandpa seem to think that it isn't possible to put headers on the car and that I'm crazy for even thinking about trying to do it. Are they really that HARD to install? Also, any links to some good ones?

I know my friends dads chevelle has no glass packs. His is just straight pipes with a built 350.

Maybe I can make a video in a few days once the wind stops so you can hear the current setup.

CaliChevyLover

i bought my car with edelbrock emission headers installed. it is possible. i have working a/c and all vacuum lines too

Air_Adam

Glasspacks sound like crap... all those farm trucks from the mid-90s that you see that sound like machine guns? Thats what glasspacks will sound like on your car. Get a cutout, you'll be alot happier.

Dartht33bagger

So many opinions. So how does a cut out work?

Air_Adam

You have a section of your main exhaust pipe cut off, and having the cutout welded in place of that piece. When you want to be loud and have that 'muscle car' sound you just pop the cap off and you're good to go. When you want to go back to being quiet, just put it back on. If you pick the right spot on your exhaust, it only takes a minute to take the plate off or put it on without even lifting the car. You can get them in sizes to fit 2.00" all the way up to 4.00" exhaust pipes, going up in 1/4" incriments. Here is a pic - pic is worth a thousand words, right? I used stainless hex nuts instead of the wingnuts though, as they don't come loose like wingnuts can, and stainless won't seize to the studs on the cutout. Just need to keep a 9/16 wrench in the car with me and I can pull the plate off any time I want to.

khulsebus

iTrader: (2)

the carb on a car has no impact on the way it sounds. headers aren't hard to install on these cars, the drivers side goes in from the top, and the passenger side goes in from the bottom after you pull the starter. i'd add headers, a magnaflow cat, and a different muffler. you can check out the sounds online. i had a cat-back system on my '85 ta (magnaflow maybe), it sounded nice at idle, but almost vacuum cleaner like if i had any throttle open at all.

Dartht33bagger

That exactly how to describe it above 1700 RPM. Like when it shifts from second to third the sound changes dramatically. Before it shifts to third it sounds like my moms 2003 pontiac grand am GT, and then when it shifts up it sounds like it has power again. I'll have to run the headers by my dad, because he stills thinks I'm crazy for thinking about doing it.

Air_Adam

Thats a pretty broad statement... some sets are ALOT easier to install than others. Some are a nightmare to install. How 'easy' it is is pretty dependant on the installers ability too - guys doing headers for the first time will have a hard time with ANY set, mostly because there is no such thing as 'bolt-in' headers... they all require modifications, alterations, changes of some sort to install them, and even then they never fit perfectly.

Some sets are easier to install than others, some are engineered better than others, but its never a simple task the first time with any set. It took me 8hrs to do my first set of shorties when I was 17 - and I didn't even get the Y-pipe on that day. Now I can R&R that same set - including the Y-pipe - in under 2 hours.

I'm not trying to discourage him, as headers aren't an overly difficult thing to install, and are definitely worth the time - but they can definitely test your patience the first time you do it. You will pitch at least one wrench your first time.

And for the record, I'm NOT looking forward to installing my Hooker 2226's.... lol

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Mine don't sound too bad... and I have full exhaust out the back (no cut-outs).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfLWpAy0c1o

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Headers are not that difficult to install. Mine went in easily from the top on both sides, but I don't have all the A/C and smog equipment cluttering up my engine bay and getting in the way either. The rear bolts by the firewall are the worst to get to.

I also have to disagree that glasspacks make a camaro sound like a farm truck. I live in an area with lots of farm trucks and know that sound well. I have a pair of Thrush glasspacks on my Camaro and it sounds nothing like a farm truck.

Here's my exhaust after I installed the headers and dual exhaust kit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRzK0Q5Htjo

TimeTraveller

How's this sound? (don't mind the guy with the red truck at the end!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVF-CjIg36o

This is my 92 305 TPI Trans Am 'vert with stock manifolds, functional cat, stock midpipe, and 80 series Flowmaster with extended outlets for '77 T/A exhaust splitters.

TT

Dartht33bagger

See my car kinda sounds like the poster above mine.

I do like the sound of the black ones though. Very low and nice sounding.

As for headers, my dad still thinks it will be hard. He has done them in the past and so has my grandpa, but on old 70's cars with no smog. Mine has A/C and all the smog stuff. They think it will be really hard to get them in and have them fit on correctly.

They are also worried that there is sensors in the stock exhaust manifold for the ECM. Is this true? Also, will I have to modify the ECM at all once I put them on? They do just run straight into the Y pipe correct?

khulsebus

iTrader: (2)

there is one o2 sensor in the drivers side manifold, your headers "should" have a bung already welded into the collector.

vengetta82

whooeee man!

sparkplug619

I agree, cutouts are the best..

Air_adam, there is technology now adays, no need to have to get under your car to pop the plate back on when you have one of QTP's electronic cutouts, I know alot of guys running them on the track here in san diego.

Shane B

this is the sound I would go after!!Not gonna get this sound from a stock 305.definetly need at least a cam.

Thirdgen6.6l

I been using those on my 4 gen z28. I put em after the Y pipe.

88gta3508

1bad91Z sounds great!! you need a sound clip away from that hall effect between 2 buildings..
And darth has a 154K stock 305 never gonna sound like that

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fqz6tAXC3mk
short tube 2-1/2 back

383fbod

iTrader: (2)

cam sound clip 230/236 @ .05 .510 .520 on a 112lsa
http://www.youtube.com/user/383strok.../0/zS6Hf9H_sEg
FF to 2. min
ps. i fixed that noisy ps pump since then

Dartht33bagger

Now I personally don't like that sound on cars. It just makes it sound clunky. I know my friends dad has a cam in his, but during idle you can barely hear the motor compared to that.

88gta3508

your 100% correct. that camcorder.. or close space echo??? makes that motor sound terrible up front.. and their is either a knock in the motor.
or something hitting to mimic a rod , wrist pin knock

yoshirocks702

Try changing your stock air filter to an open type, like this:



Whenever I change to an open type air filter it drastically alters the sound of the engine, whether its a 50cc moped or 5.0l camaro. This might give that "kick" you're looking for

Str8upChevy

Ok, the first thing you need to do is move down here to Grants Pass where there is NO Emissions!!! Just Kidding,....but yeah, it does help not having to worry about that down here. I had my cat removed and installed a 40 series Flowmaster and now it sounds pretty good. Something you have to remember about these Third Gen Camaros is that the muffler is all the way at the back of the car. That's one of the reasons why these & 4th Gens (and Vettes) are so much quieter than other cars.

Your friend's Chevelle (as well as most 60's & 70's muscle cars) have the room to put the mufflers before the rearend. That makes a huge difference. I'll tell you one thing you can do to to help remedy this particular situation. I had the same problem after I built a nasty little small block 406 for my 81 Vette. I knew that just moving my mufflers closer to the motor would make it much louder.

Since I had the same "no room" problem, I simply bought a couple ONE CHAMBER Flowmaster race mufflers for it and moved them up in front of the rearend. The nice thing is, the body on these mufflers is only 3 inches tall, so you can basically put them anywhere you would run 2.5" exhaust pipes.......and, they definitely sound much better than glass packs.

Obviously installing a set of headers (like most people have already mentioned) is going to make a big difference, but I think you'd be much happier with a set of these One Chamber Flowmasters than glass packs. I'll see if I can round up a picture to show you what I'm talking about.

As long as your car isn't lowered down on the ground they should fit under there without a problem. My Vette is actually lowered quite a bit and I still don't scrape them on any speed bumps. Ok, here's a couple pictures to show you what I'm talking about. Notice how low my car sits in the second picture. I still have 4" of clearance under the mufflers.

As you can see, the pipes are 2.5" and there's only 1/4" above and below the pipes. They're actually a really good solution when it comes to clearance issues.
.





THIS IS THE MUFFLER I'M REFERRING TO: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Flowm...Q5fAccessories

.

screamnchickn

LOL we got headers and new spark plugs and a performance coil and as soon as we fixed our leaky exhaust it too sounds like a pooch... runs good tho but needs more sound

Dartht33bagger

Wow thanks Str8upChevy! I'll have to look into those for sure. That was a very informative post

I'll definitely look into those mufflers. As far headers, which ones are good? Is there any possibility it would sound worse with the headers lol?

sparkplug619

headers. Theres alot of hype over the hooker 2055's and 2460's

Str8upChevy

NO, definitely not. I don't see how replacing your stock exhaust manifolds with a set of headers would make your car sound worse. I think you'll definitely hear more of change in sound by switching the mufflers out, but if you do it in combination with a set of headers it will most surely make you smile!

As far as a good set goes, you can spend a lot of money on something like Hooker Super Comps,.....but if you just want headers to change the sound of your car, I wouldn't spend a whole lot of money. Something you need to remember, is that if you go with Long-Tube headers, you'll need to change out your Y-pipe.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

for real!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cE1gOF7iLo

IROCThe5.7L

Certain exhaust might help a bit. But you're not going to get what your looking for unless you beef up your motor a bit.

Head/cam'ed/intake 350.

Cold idle: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vID83Vn9I2Y

Warm idle (idles down 30 seconds in): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjzPtVme_T0

BakerUSAF 86T/A

I take it it still has the cats on it. Cut the cats, get some headman headers with two in pipes going out the back with a flowmaster muffler system. You'll love it.

88gta3508

OK.. good start ...now take it out of the Garage get ride of the ECHO

Dartht33bagger

I agree, I wish there were more take offs. My friends chevelle is almost silent at idle, but when it takes off it's much louder.

No cats is not an opinion, wouldn't pass emissions.

I don't plan to get long tube headers and I'd like to stay in the $150 range or so.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

If you're 17 and have a low budget, I'd recommend either a Hooker catback or a Flowmaster catback. Add some headers to the mix if you like.

The Flowmasters have that old muscle car sound. Sounds like every car at a car show. Hooker is a bit more tame at idle. But loud when you get on the gas. A bit different sounding from the generic Flowmaster sound.

Headers will give it a bit more grunt. Definitely the best for HP gain. But the loudness will mostly come from the choice of muffler.

No problems passing emissions with that. Only thing that will fail you is lack of catalytic converter and no AIR headers (if they're doing a visual). Most headers have the choice of AIR or no AIR.

IROCThe5.7L

If you're talking about my videos it's not going to matter. It doesn't sound that different outside the garage. Especially since I was recording behind the car anyway at the end of the garage.