BLOWN Z28

started cutting yesterday, I am attempting to do this project myself, planning on a full tube construction with a 10 point roll cage. will post as i progress
by the way, no im not into witchcraft the star with the circle was from a halloween party.

red406

iTrader: (4)

How long did it take to cut all of that out?

What rear end are you using? Ladder bars or 4-link?

AlkyIROC

Good luck. You're committed to getting it done now.

If you haven't read the thread on my back half yet, you should. Don't rely on factory positioning for reference points, nothing in the car is symmetrical. Measure and check for squareness before doing any welding. Line everything up in relation to the front spindles.

1gary

Very important that your ref is level meaning the car has to be level on all corners and sides.I plum bob and take my measurements off that.

BLOWN Z28

4 link coil over , i have about 16 hours into it now, all sheet metal removed and fenders widened 2.5". i have more picks i will post this weekend.

BLOWN Z28

Alky, thanks i havent read yours yet but i did read a couple others, do you have a link or what is the titl of the thread? i did look for it but you have almost 14,000 posts.



never mind just found it, thanks Wes

BLOWN Z28

1gary, how do you use a plum bob to level? may be a stupid question but i had to ask. what do you use for reference points? i do have the car sitting on 4 stands and it seems to be level but since the frame is not level how do you know?
thanks Wes

1gary

Sorry Wes I should have posted that better.The level I spoke of is the car.The door sills,front and back of the car,pretty much anywhere to insure the car is a level ref.Then plumb bob from the front spindles to X in the rear end's center to insure square,the front horns of the front of the car to the back haft,all these measurements should work out to be square(short accounting for OEM's driveline offset) and ref as level too.It's for that reason why the car's level is so important.

Think of it this way.If you wanted to cut a pipe and it wasn't level,the cut would be at a angle.So you want all your components of the frame to ref a level point.....the car it's self.Once level is established the plumb bob's hang straight and is the transfer ref point.

At times it's not easy for me to type out what I mean.Hope this clears up what I am trying to say.

1gary

At one time we had built a rotisserie,which are not that hard to do,that doubled as a frame machine.Set fixtures to clamp on and set,then tack weld,then flip on the side to weld.Sure made it easier with no up welds.

BLOWN Z28

didnt really want to go that route, i have a rotisserie that i used to do a couple frame off restos, but i dont want to strip the camaro down and im not sure what i would even attach to since there is really nothing left of the backend.
by the way i understand what you were saying about the plumb bob now.

BLOWN Z28

BLOWN Z28

some more pics of progress, widened wheel opening 2.5"
still need to finish filling in welds

BLOWN Z28

more pictures showing amount of metal removed, inside of wheel well and rear bumper plate support

red406

iTrader: (4)

Wheel openings look good. Looks alot like mine.

What size tire are you going to use?

BLOWN Z28

red, I read your post about 5 times before starting my project, ( i guess that explains the similarities) I am going to run as big of tire as i can, maybe the same size as you are running. i am going to attempt this whole backhalf project on my own, i have many years of fabrication experiance not so much with cars but machines (not that much different) I have also completed a few restorations, so I dont think that this will be outside of my abilitys especially after reading alkyirocs post and seeing what he had to work with. thanks for documenting your project so well, it is going to be a great help.

BLOWN Z28

does anyone have any advice on what coilovers to use? spring rate? frame rail width OD?
what length upper and lower links? rod diameter?
thanks wes

1gary

We used upright adjustable fixtures that slide from the door sills back.Also tack welded braces in the door openings and cross braces in the rear to attach to.The last one we did laying on our backs on the floor,I swear even with leathers that I would never get tattooed with slag from the up welds like that again.The first one we did like that needed to have the rad core support pulled on a frame machine from a minor crash.I asked them to check it out while it was on the machine and they told me it came out better than the factory spec.

AlkyIROC

Good job on opening up the wheel openings. I never did mine. I just trimmed the front and rear with a sawzall to clear the tires. I run 32 x 16 tires on 15 x 15 rims with 5.5" backspace. I'd love to run a 33 or 34" tire but don't have the room.

Coilover springs rates really depend on how much weight sits on the rear tires. I currelty use 110 pound springs and have used 130 pound springs. 150 pound springs are a little heavy for a drag car. If the spring is too heavy, it doesn't allow the shocks to do their job. The springs only need to hold up the car.

There's a simple formula to calculate the spring you need. The spring needs to compress so much depending on the total shock travel. Too stiff a spring and it won't compress enough. Too light a spring and it compresses too much.

83RDRACR

I'll second that!!!

BLOWN Z28

got the rear crossmember done, waiting on my tubes from the shop for the rear frame rails. tried bending my own but they did not turn out as well as i would have liked. next step is to mock up my rear to make sure cross meber does not have to move further front befor welding solid.

AlkyIROC

Good plan. Fabricate, check measurements, check again, then weld.

While you're at that stage, get some 1" tubing (.120" wall or thicker) and fabricate a driveshaft loop for the crossmember. It's easier to do now then when the floor goes back in. You'll want to wide enough to get the driveshaft away from the diff pinion so you can pull it out.

BLOWN Z28

brackets welded to 9", front brackets on and first tubes

BLOWN Z28

Got Wheels, man these are huge!

BLOWN Z28

Well took a vacation day yesterday and got alot accomplished

BLOWN Z28

More pics of progress, still need "X" brace, main hoop cross tube and the rest of the 10 point cage installed and need to install 2x3 frame connectors. Then I have a lot of welding to do! I guess I am going to have to finally pull out that pesky passengers seat

lmidden

nice work and really fast for the framework

BLOWN Z28

thanks Imidden, when I get a bug I really tear into it, took the passengers seat and the carpet out tonight. hope to get the halo hoop, front braces and front halo braces in on the roll cage this weekend.

BLOWN Z28

Well I spent the last 3 weeks couped up inside with a cold that turned into a full blown sinus infection, not much fun working on the car like that!

finally starting to feel better
got the front halo hoop, front down bars and door bars installed on the roll cage also got the rear "X" brace installed in the back,90% of the welding is complete.
ordered a set of wheel tubs from Jegs today so I hoping to get these fabbed up this weekend and maybe start on the frame connectors. i will try and post more pictures of my progress this weekend.

AlkyIROC

Oh the joy is trimming wheel tubs.

6SIX6

iTrader: (35)

Wow this is quite the build and moving really quick. Cant wait to see the rest of it. What did you use to bend the tubing as Im looking at doing my own cage over the summer in my garage at home

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

Looks like a nice project so far.

BLOWN Z28

6SIX6, some of the tubing I had a shop bend for me, ( the main frame members) I wanted these to be perfect and they had a CNC mandrel bender. The others pieces I bent using a Habor Freight Hydralic tubing bender, these work alright but you have to be careful or the tubing will kink or crack. I used a couple different ways of bending one was to fill the tube with sand weld caps on and then bend. this works the best but is very time consuming, the othe way I found that works is to make the bend by moving the tube and making multiple bends instead of just one bend to get the final bend you need.

BLOWN Z28

more pics as promised

BLOWN Z28

fabricated frame ties from 2x2x3/16 tubing, still need to box in and tie into front unibody frame

BLOWN Z28

wheel tubs, who would of thought these would be so much work!

BLOWN Z28

wheel tubs complete! Cleco's are a wonderful invention

BLOWN Z28

mocking up the rear, going to fabricate braces, box in the 4 link brackets and make a tie bar for the 4 link brackets tomorrow.

daverr

iTrader: (1)

nice backhalf project. keep pics of the awesome work coming!

6SIX6

iTrader: (35)

Thanks man im gona look into that as i want to build a cage next winter and dont need something as cray as yours but would like something thats good in the car for sure. I look forward to more post on the progress

BLOWN Z28

well I got my tires Friday , had to go to a truck tire center to get them mounted, what a pain in the a** and cost me $50 to get them mounted!

check out the old vs new picture

BLOWN Z28

how this for fit? got about 1" clearance all around. Next step measure for proper axel length. going to work on some of the sheetmetal this weekend

BLOWN Z28

sorry been a couple weeks, i have been adapting 11" disc brakes from a 99 S10 to use tyhe parking brake also since this is a street/strip car and i need it for inspection. I will try and post some pics this week, started sheet metal work inside the car< I am using aluminum to sheet in the back just because i have it. also ordered my axels this week expect to have by friday.

BLOWN Z28

started sheet metal, so far only go the front metal installed

BLOWN Z28

Well my axels came, decided to go with Dutchman axels over Moser because they were very helpful throughout the ordering process and were very cost competitive for the same alloy axels. They fit perfectly, now for the brakes.
I couldn't afford to go the Wildwood route at this time, plus i want to be able to drive on the street with the occasional run on the strip. What i came up with is a set of rear disc brakes off of a 2000 Jimmy. Took a lot of work to adapt them but i finally got them installed, still need to finish welding them to the axel tube but they should work fine and I only have $50 invested at this point. They are 11-1/2" rotors with aluminum calipers that I glass beaded and clearcoated.
I was even able to use the factory internal drum parking brake which I need to pass inspection here in PA.

BLOWN Z28

Still have not bought my gears, not sure what to run.....
Any sugestions???
Tires are 33x22x15 I am planning on a TH400 (I think).

I am going to install rear in car this weekend install rear diagonal link and see how everything fits

red406

iTrader: (4)

Looks good. Looks like my car.

What fuel cell do you plan on using?

AlkyIROC

I see the sheetmetal behind the main hoop looks as ugly as mine. Our cars are too short to make a nice clean panel in that area.

I know you wanted a park brake. Did you look at my thread in the brake section sticky on installing disk brakes on any differential? I put Jimmy disks on mine but fabricated a mount similar to a Currie design. I didn't need a park brake for a race car though.

When I first put my diff in the car, I used a diagonal link and hated it. The next week I yanked it off and installed a wishbone system on the top of the diff and it works so much better.

As for gears, it will depend a lot on transmission gearing, stall speed of the converter, if the converter is considered loose or tight and rpm range of the engine. My tires are 32" tall and I use 4.86 gears. I use a powerglide with a converter that stalls just over 6000 rpm and I buzz the engine to around 7400. I tried some 4.57 gears and the car hated them. The converter didn't like that ratio and slipped too much. Putting the 4.86 gears back in and the converter slip dropped back down to where it worked better. I'd love to go with something like 5.13 but would need to change the converter to work with those gears.

Unfortunately, you can't just say I'm going to use this size, this number etc. Although it would work, for best performance, all the parts need to work together. I've seen cars in the magazines all tubbed out with big, tall tires and you read the specs and they're using 3.42 gears or something like that. To me, it's all show and highway driving. They never give any sort of performance data given because parts are so mismatched for best performance. The software ET calculators said 4.57 gears were my best choice. I tried a set and didn't like the performance so I went back to the 4.86 gears which I knew worked great.

BLOWN Z28

Red406, like I stated before I have got to give a lot of credit to you and AlkyIroc as I used a lot of you pictures and post's a references along the way, thanks for being so descriptive.
I am not sure what fuel cell yet, that is why I haven done anything in the back yet. What did you use?
I seen you sent your car to the body shop, are you getting it painted? Cant wait to see how it looks.
how does your car drive with the 514 gears?
PS I promise my car will not be red

Wes

red406

iTrader: (4)

Lol!

Your car is comming along great. Keep up the good work.

BLOWN Z28

Alky, you are right I had one hell of a time getting that piece of metal in trere and trying to make it look good at the same time, I think i can work it a little more and get it to look a little better.
Yes I did read your artical on the Jimmy brakes (great info here) hence I now also have Jimmy brakes, I used the factory mount for the caliper but beefed it up with a piece of 3/8" plate steel behind it. I will snap a few more pictures this weekend when I dissasemble to finish welding. I wanted to use the factory mount because it has all the hardware for the factory e-brake.
Do you have any pictures of the double wish bone you installed? Did you make it yourself or buy it? I really didnt like the idea of the diaginal link either and I think the double wishbone is a much better design.
As far as the gears I am looking for a starting point but still want the car to be steetable, I was thinking high 400's with the tires that I have but not sure if this will be too high for street use! I put 373's in my 69 firebird with a th350 and they are a little lower than I would like for street use, of course the tires are a lot smaller.
I am planning on running a TH400 in the camaro with around a 4000 stall ( or should I be higher) the engine is a 355 sbc witha 671 supercharger redline is 7k ( may be able to go a little higher, but i jave a 7k pill in the msd box now).