chaos91

iTrader: (1)

Just got an 87 T/A WS6 from another member and I was wondering, what does the WS6 package include?

Dustin Imports

i sjut picked up an 88 over the weekend. wheels and suspension i think. Not sure if the bulge hood I have was as well. sure some other minor appearence mods

1tinindian

It all varied, depending on what year of car you have.
It was a Suspention upgrade, and had nothing to do with appearence, other than the wheels.
In most cases it included upgraded anti-sway bars, springs, shocks& struts, wheels and tires, steering box ratio.
At one time, the rear disc brakes were part of the deal, also, but in later models, it was optional.
If your car truely has it, it will have the RPO "WS6", listed on the build sheet.
And if your car is stock, it should have some style of 16" wheel on it.
Pictures would be great, lets see it!

Leon

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

I don't think WS6 had any apperiance mods other than the "performance suspension" emblem on the dash.

You are looking at bigger sway bars and different spring rates. Its a bit more of a harsh ride. 16inch rims with bigger tires.

I think that was it.

chaos91

iTrader: (1)

Here's a couple of pics. Has emblem on dash and 16" wheels.

Dustin Imports

not to thread jack but i was going to post a similar question, i guess I ahve the "power bulge" hood

ajaciuk

It doesn't look like the power bulge hood is on your car that is some sort of aftermarket add on.
At least in the picture there it doesn't look like any Formula hood I have ever seen.

The back isn't right and the front is not flush either.





not to thread jack but i was going to post a similar question, i guess I ahve the "power bulge" hood[/quote]

Dustin Imports

yea its not the tear drop one, but power bullge cam eup in searcha nd there are other pics.
its comin up in front becuase old. its held on by same melted fastners that are used on iroc vents.
Ill have to do more research.

McWolf

that's not a factory formula hood, it's an aftermarket of some sort.

okfoz

Starting in 1986 the WS6 included: (possibly 1985)
- 16x8rims, 245-50R16 Tires, ZR16 tires started in 89 IIRC
- Gas filled Struts and shocks
- 36mm front 24mm rear sway bars
- Fast Ratio Steering box
- Specific Springs

Note: THe Badge on the passenger side does NOT indicate WS6, base Trans Am's without WS6 came with the badge.

John

ranone21

iTrader: (3)

I have a ws6 car... in my sig.... 89 trans am with the ws6... it has the 16 inch wheels and the 50 series tires....bigger swaybars.... close ratio steering box..... and it has a drum brake set-up on the rear....had the flat hood but I dont like them so I put a bulge hood on and now selling it to put a ram air II on... more pics on my website below....

okfoz

THe rear disk brakes were not a part of the package after 1985 for sure. 1985 Possibly. From 1982 - 1984 (and possibly 1985) rear disk brakes were part of the WS6, WS7 was the same as WS6 except it had drum brakes.

When the SPID sheet was introduced in 1984 this basically meant that the WS7 was no longer needed as drum brakes or disk brakes could be broken out and listed seperately from the WS6.

John

ranone21

iTrader: (3)

I also have am 85 trans am parts car that is a ws6 and it has the disc brake posi rear end .....

Guest

WS6:
85 included discs. 87-up did not, unless you got the 350. I havent seen anything solid yet that 86 was option only.

Specific springs... and bushings.

okfoz

Actually In the case of the 87+ L98 the Rear disc brakes were not a part of the WS6, they were part he B2L package, which specified that the WS6, rear disc brakes, and other goodies were manditory (on firebirds). Also I believe that the rear disc brakes & WS6 were manditory on the 87+ LB9/M5 cars, especailly the Formula and GTA, not sure about Trans Am.

John

ranone21

iTrader: (3)

I have a trans am.... an 89 to be exact..... it has the LB9 and WS6.... but does that mean all LB9 trans ams had it? .... dont know....

okfoz

No, not all LB9 Trans Am's would have had WS6. ONLY if your car was equippped with the LB9 & the M5 (manual) transmission would it have been true.

From what I have found from 87-92:
WS6 was standard on ALL GTA's & Formulas.
WS6 was optional on the Trans Am.

When (firebirds) equipped with the L98/A4 OR LB9/M5 got WS6 & performance gear ratio. I have not found an LB9/A4 that had the performance ratio on the firebird line from what I can tell. Except in 1986 when the Trans Am with the LB9/A4 did have the 3.27 gear.

Make sence?

ranone21

iTrader: (3)

well, sounds like an owner before me may have done some cloning here......

Guest

Yes, thats correct. I dont know about the M5 being mandatory, but its quite likely.

The 3.27 was optional in 86, although I dont know if the LB9/A4 made it a mandatory option.

ranone21

iTrader: (3)

actually I really am not sure what gears are in my rear end.... I somehow have it stuck in my mind that is is a 2.73 hmmmmmmmm maybe not

okfoz

@ 75Mph a 2.73 axel spins the Engine about 1750 RPM, A 3.27 or 3.23 about 2000 RPM and a 3.73 about 2400 RPM.

THat is with an Automatic Trans, the Manual trans would more than likely be different becuase the final ratio is not the same as the A4.

I am not sure why you think you have a Clone WS6... THere is a good chance that your car does have WS6. The easiest way would be to get some Calipers and measure the front Sway bars, they should be 36mm or about 1.417" Dia. The rears are 24mm or .945" Dia.

I am really sure the WS6 was an option on any trans Am in 1989. It was NA on the Base firebird only.

John

John

ranone21

iTrader: (3)

well, it runs in the range of 1700 to 1800 at 70mph. and I will measure the sway bars but, when it all comes down to it ....doesnt really matter I enjoy it very much and wouldnt sell it.... so all in all it is or not ..... Ill keep it and run the daylights out of it ... wind blowin thru my hair tops out....

JCL91TRANSAM

iTrader: (3)

I think my 1991 Trans Am has the ws6 package. I will check to find out.

ranone21

iTrader: (3)

well, I just measured my front swaybar and it measure 36mm or my rough conversion from inches to mm tells me that .... yipppeeee! but I would not care either way... it is an 89 A4 automatic 305 tpi WS6 trans am......

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

While everything is in black and white on the 1987 order worksheet, there's a bit of a gray area as to what an MM5 car would've gotten.

The only specific requirement for G80 was that it was required with LB9 or B2L. So therefore, we know that all LB9 and B2L cars would've automatically received posi rearends. But it was orderable for any Firebird, even a base model.

And you could get G80 without J65, but you couldn't get J65 without G80. So with discs, you'd have gotten the performance axle ratio, and with drums you'd have gotten the standard axle ratio.

The only specific requirements for having J65 were that it was required with B2L, and that it was not available on LB9/Auto GTAs or on any LB9 Trans Am(regardless of transmission). But here again, it was orderable on any other Firebird, including a base model.

So that means that some TAs and GTAs would've had posi rearends with drum brakes(no choice), which, again, meant having the standard axle ratio(whatever that would've been).

There's nothing specifically noted on any of those options about cars equipped with manual transmissions, regardless of their engines. So it would appear that even an LB9/MM5 car could've come equipped with a posi/drum rearend and the standard axle ratio, regardless of whether or not it had WS6.

And regarding WS6, it was standard on Formulas and GTAs, but it was optional for Trans Ams, not available on base Firebirds.

okfoz

You may have a different worksheet than the one I have from 1987, but there is no mention that I can find with a performance axel ratio... To go a step further if you look up a few lines above the J65 option you will see that CC1 was NA w/2BL Engine, NA w/LB9 Engine a/Auto Trans w/J65 Four wheel disc Brakes on FOrmula.

For whatever reason Pontiac did not want the LB9, A4, J65 & CC1 combo. Probably to do with weight savings and fuel economy.

I do know other years they spell out the MM5 trans better with the applicability of the Performance ratio axel. I have yet to see any 87-92 Formula or GTA for that matter with the LB9/MM5 w/o the 3.42 or 3.45 axel ratio.

JOhn

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

We prolly are looking at the same worksheet, because mine also does not mention anything about the performance axle ratio. So perhaps I should've been more clear on this point...

The dealers also had handbooks with specific info about options, availability and ordering. I got to take one home to study so I could spec my Formula exactly like I wanted it. And, IIRC, it was in that booklet where it said to get the performance ratio you had to have a combo of G80/J65/(maybe WS6 too, don't remember everything).

The 'required withs' and 'except withs' were so confusing that even the dealer couldn't interpret everything correctly and kept telling me it couldn't be ordered my way(with ALL the performance goodies). So to make sure, and I know I've mentioned this before, I phoned Pontiac's Technical Division for clarification, and I was right. They said to have the dealer input the order, and the computer won't reject it.

But like you, John, I've also never known of an LB9/MM5 car that did not have the performance ratio. But I've also not known of one that did not have rear disc brakes either. So maybe that's why.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

My 1983 WS7 automatic car that I bought new, had the posi-traction 3:42 gears, and rear drum brakes. It had the optional 15inch tires. The standard tire size for 1983 was 14 inches. The 1983 WS6 manual transmission car that was also bought new had the rear disc brakes, optional 15 inch tires, and I don't remember the gear ratio. The third 83 that I bought new, did not have the handling package, had the 14 inch finned wheels, and drum brakes on the rear. It had a 3:42 ratio standard non-posi rear-end. The 86 that I have now is a WS6, and came with the 16 inch finned wheels, that were not supposed to be available until 1988, but are clearly discribed on the window sticker and build sheet. The axle is a 3:27 9 bolt posi unit, and of course the rear disc brakes. Pontiac apparently did not follow any set rules, because there are so many variations of these cars. Charles

okfoz

the 1986 Wheels your taking about are they the cross-laced rims? If they are they appeared in late 1986 as an option, again in 1987 when a TA was equipped with an automatic transmission and T-tops they could have gotten the rims. The reason was they were lighter and they could save slightly on Fuel economy.

I have seen it before...

John

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

The rims on my current 86 are the not the "crossed laced" style. They are the deep dish wheels that have the five spokes with the vents in between each spoke. One of the spokes says "PONTIAC." The wheels are aluminum, and came with silver caps with "WS6" in the center. They look like the 15 inch wheels on many of the cars of that year, except they are 16x8. I have seen these same wheels some 88 Formula's, and first thought that someone had changed the wheels. The original owner assured me that the wheels are OEM and came on that car. The window sticker and build sheet both discribe the wheels pretty well, so I believe that it is correct. The car even had the OEM tires on it up until March 07. The car is a California built, and is also a California Emissions car, so there are several items on the car that are unusual. The build date is in July 1986. It is listed as an 86, and has the older style non-roller 305 TPI engine. It does have some 1987 parts though. The original owner bought it new in September 1986 at Harry's Pontiac in Asheville North Carolina. Charles

1tinindian

The wheels you are saying your car has right now are most definately 1988 Formula wheels.
They were NEVER new on the 1986 Trans Am.
The wheels I have on my 83 T/A are the wheels your car should have, as part of the 1986 WS6 package, its true!

Leon

okfoz

THe 1988 "Formula" Wheel was not introduced until 1988, If you had a August or July 1987 car I might buy it as a possiblity. They do list the PE0 Wheel for 1987 & 1986 in the parts & illustration catalog but I have never ever seen one on any TA or Firebird prior to 1988. I believe it is a typo in the book.

RPO's of reference:
PE0 is the 16x8 88+ Formula Wheel
N96 is the 16x8 wheel pictured above
N24 is the deep dish 15" Rim
N90 is the cross lace 15x7 rim
PW7 is the 16x8 cross lace rim that came on all GTA's

Hope that helps.

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

this is my 88 Formula that I bought in May of 2003.
it was bone stock with these options: 305TPI Automatic, posi, 3.23 gears, Drum brakes, 140 speedo 6K tach, alum driveshaft, alum space saver spare, power windows/locks, manual mirrors, tilt & cruise, intermittent wipers, tilting drivers seat, electric hatch popper, upshifts to 4th at WOT.

I was going to get the window sticker and build sheet, but I just read that thread about GM and PHS having issues.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

The 1983 WS6 and WS7 came with a 15 inch finned wheel. I know this for a fact because I owned three brand new 83's, one WS6, a WS7, and a standard model T/A. The base wheel for the 83 was a 14 inch wheel. The base 14 inch wheels could be ordered with the bowling ball covers, or as a finned wheel with center caps. I understand that the 86 T/A was supposed to come with the crossed-lace style wheels, but mine didn't. The wheels on your red car in the picture look the same as the wheels on my 86. And yes, I Thought that someone had swapped them out, but cannot find any evidence of a swap. The original owner assured me that the car has the wheels and tires that came on it new. I had the original badly dry-rotted tires removed in March and put a new set on. I also reviewed the the build sheet and the window sticker again, and the wheels are listed there also, so apparently there are some mistakes in the listings on these cars. Charles

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

OK, I was wrong about the wheels. Sorry I was so stuborn about it. Thanks for the RPO codes, as I have not been able to download the decoder yet. Talked to the original owner again this morning, and I was wrong about a couple of important things. First, the car did have those PE0 wheels on it when he bought it, only he bought as a dealer demo, in September 1987, not 86. He told me that he was under the impression that one of the dealer's family members drove it. According factory code the car came with the PW7 wheels. The Dealer Invoice lists "16x8 Formula Wheels'' in the dealer installed options section. The only conclusion we can come to is that the dealer must have swapped the wheels with another car? Thanks for your help in clearing up that question. Obviously the car is not as rare I thought. I will try to be more certain before opening my mouth next time. Charles

1tinindian

There was no need to get down on me!
I know what my 83 came with from the factory, unlike you and your 86.
I was just trying to be helpful in showing you the style of wheel that would have been on your car, if they were supposed to be the ones that weren't the cross-laced wheels, OK.
And yes, I DID swap wheels on my car and I also have the originals in storage.
I'm not trying to prove anything about my car, just trying to help you with yours!
You're Welcome!

Leon

okfoz

Leon,
I did not think he was getting down on you, unfortunately the internet is a bad place to try and convey emotions.

Charles,
If your car indeed had the PW7 wheels that would be really rare (or at least unusual ) I did know that they were available and have only seen a few of them with the wheels in 1986.

I would like to see the car put back to original personally sounds like a neat car.

JOhn

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Dear Leon, I am truly sorry if I offended you, that was not the intention. And, thanks for the help. I could not find the picture of the 83 you mentioned, so I was not sure what you were saying, but saw the picture of the 88 Formula. I will try to be more careful not to come accross as confontational. I am very familiar with the 83's as I had three of them, the last one of which I kept until 2003. I never paid any attention to the other year models until we bought the 86 this year, so I am totally ignorant about the 86's, and am trying to learn. I actually liked the 83 better, maybe beacuse I had it from new, or maybe it just seemed to have more personality, then the 86, but like a dummy, it's sold and long gone. I am glad to see younger people are interested in these cars, and will keep some of the history alive, as we thought they were disposable when they were new. We were wrong. Sincerely,
Charles

1tinindian

No problem, then!
My 83, may have confused the whole issue, and that was my mistake.
Here it is with its stock wheels .


And with 1988 Formula center caps.

Leon

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

That is one great looking 83! It looks to be in remarkable condition! With the exception of the 74 Formula, I think that the 82-83 T/A's were the best looking cars of the entire F-body line. Charles

82 S/E WS6

With that.

okfoz

I think someone at Pontiac would also agree as they basically reinvented the 82-84 Trans Am w/o gfx in 1987 with the formula. Then the Formula went to outsell both the Trans am & GTA 3 of the 6 year run. in 1989, 1990 & 1991 the formula outsold the GTA & TA combined. In 1987, 1988 & 1992 the Formula outsold the TA or the GTA individually but not combined. Probably having more to do with economics than any thing else in reality.

Now that this has ben estabilshed I really do not want to see a pissing contest on which subgen is best we all will have our different opinion. THe thread is about WS6.

John

Guest

what gear ratio did the ws6 performance package come with i found a ws6 car with disk brakes on rear no rpo code though and cant find a production date ether

Drew

iTrader: (58)

https://www.thirdgen.org/tech-data

okfoz

WS6 has nothing to do with the rear gear ratio, at least for the later cars... I do not remember it having anything to do with it in the early years either...

Gear ratios were figured by the engine/trans/model combination, some cases there was an optional axle on the Trans Am, but the Formula and GTA pretty much it was the following:

87-92
L03/A4, LG4/A4 - 2.73
L03/M5, LG4/M5 - 3.08??? Not seen many so this is by memory...
LB9/A4 - 2.73
LB9/M5 - 3.45 or 3.42
L98 - 3.27 or 3.23

update: I guess I should note that this is the rule of thumb for GTA's and Formula's There are VERY VERY few that deviate from this. Starting in 1990 I think it is the rule of thumb for Camaros as well



John

Klortho

Also, the older L69/M5 cars had 3.70's (at least the '85 Trans Am's did)

kmcn47

increasingly i find that this is an issue quite frequently discussed, i imagine there are some ws6 clones perhaps assembled with parts obtained from junkyards wrecked formulas seem to me like they'd have been pretty abundant back in the day as they were (stilll are) a dangerous car if your a "yuppie" who cant drive, lol went oldschool with yuppie there, i no longer truly bleeding heartedly believe that my 89 2.8 was a ws6 i do know it had a 36mm front sway bar, i never measured the back one, it had some pretty thick coils and i but bilstein struts on it it had a torque arm, whether or not it was factory or just installed long enough ago to look it i dont know, it had the performance suspension badge, and a wonderbar (again i dont know if it was factory or just old) it rode hard as **** but cornered amazingly on dry roads it was an auto and a v6 the interior looked just as nice as a friend (my old tae kwon do instructor)s 89 formula we had the same seats and both had the 120 mph speedo i did look under his car and didn't see anything that i didn't have in mine (his was a 5spd though so there was that and a 305tpi) please no bashing that its impossible, i know that as for coming that way from factory it is, but i tell you it "had it" when i owned it legitimately or not personally after reading about 6 threads about this i'm convinced that somewhere around it being new (california car van nuys thin paint) it got repainted and someone put formula stripes all around it, i looked for those stripes everywhere and couldn't find anyone making repros or duplicates and was resprayed in the original black i think someone wanted to make it a formula clone but never bothered to finish it whether it was financial or a loss of interest, in 05 the car was titled in maryland for the first time and then was sold to the person i bought it from who rebuilt the 2.8 at his pontiac dealership this was in 09-10 (december) and driving it up my hill in the 4 inches of snow and ice was a BLAST we ended up pushing it into position in front of my garage as we could easily slide it on the thick ice it had no glove box lid or sunvisors, no rpo sheets or build sheets anywhere although i never pulled the seats or looked under carpet. it had the 15" vented 5 spokes that look like the formula wheels when i got it aswell as new centercaps and lug caps to make it look good the guy who i bought it from (pontiac dealer) kept very detailed receipts and care of the car he planned to fix it up for his wife and he was a pontiac nut (7 other firebirds and an acadian{i think i spelled it right, the pontiac nova}) i have the vin if anyone would like to decode it?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

WS6 was never as "important" to owners during the lifetime of these cars as it is now... while it varied quite a bit as to its exact contents from year to year, and even included those wheel center caps in some years, it was basically just the top-of-the-line "performance" suspension package in any given year. It didn't take on this life of its own and acquire its present-day "buzzword" status until they started putting GINORMOUS STICKERS!!!!! on the side of those later 4th gens.

I always get amused by people on here that want to slide that in on every post they make about their car... kinda like "Z71" on the truck boards... "I got a 94 Z71, what spark plugs does it take, the parts store guys don't have a listing for Z71, what idiots"

kmcn47

yeah i know, i work at a parts store, "oh yeah its a 92 ford bronce EDDIE BAUER edition xlt" "thats great the plugs are all the same" what i cant stand is people that come in and ask for boat/atv parts, where AUTOZONE not boatzone/atvzone go to f-ing green acres powersports to get oil for your jet ski

brdofpry85ta

iTrader: (1)

i know it's an old post, but he said "possibly 1985"......anyone know what the standard WS6 swaybar size in 1985 would be.....

I measured mine with a non-digi, micrometer and it looks to be around 1.35in witch is just over 34mm....can anyone conferm this...... I thought it would be the bigger one....