online170

The guy is very good at hiding what youre looking for.

And youre very good at missing the point that almost every post contains.

Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84, Y84,.

Check if the RPO sticker contains that code.
The RPO sticker is located in the center cosole, when you pop the lid, its clearly visible. Ask for a pic of that sticker, and search for th Y84 code.

Nice car, but with all the work hes done, and as clean as that thing looks, it wont bring the price down much i recon.

okfoz

IF by chance the car is an original Trans Am with a 350 it would appear to be a VERY rare bird in my opinion. Make sure it was originally a 350 car, check the VIN- 1G2FW218?H Most of the 350's went into GTA's and Formulas, most Trans Am's have the 305, of the three a Trans Am would be the most uncommon car to actually get a 350 from my research.

What MIGHT make this car kind of special is that it 1) has the Digital dash, 2) it has T-tops, 3) if it has a 350 then that would make it a rarity for the Firebirds as only Exported cars were available with the 350 and T-top combination (except for 1989 and 1991 & 1992 Formulas). You can check the inside of the Drivers door to see where the car was originally intended. It will say Canada as I suspect it proably does.

Unfortunately it has been poorly taken care of and the engine does not appear to be original, so the above is kind of negated so some degree.

John

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

The car is indeed in Canada so I am assuming its made in Canada as well. It is not the original engine, but the engine in it is a 5.7 multiport v8.

He is going to check and see if the rpo code is there or not, then he'll let me know.

online170

I agree with john, these cars are not in the category where people hunt for a "true original" just yet. But its getting there.

This is a very nice clean car, but the amount youd save from it not being a GTA, would probably be offset by the amount of "mods" he put into it. Let us know if you buy it.

Just curious, will this be your second 3rd gen if you buy?

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

Yes, it will be my second 3rd gen, I already have a 92 bird that is do for some paint a few minor mods.

okfoz

No 3rd gens were made in Canada they were all made in the US at Norwood & Van Nuys. The 4th Gens were all made in Canada. Check the VIN, a 1 = US 2 = Canada

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

I didn't know that, learn something new everyday here. The guy messaged me last nite and is supposed to take a pic of the underside and rpo code tonite.

OneManArmy

iTrader: (1)

At this point does it really matter if its a GTA or not? That car has been so molested, any value from it being a true GTA or not is long gone.

I hope you get a great deal for it.

online170

2 cars should be fun.

Klortho

When they changed the vin to designate the T/A from the Firebird, it became a seperate carline, and not on option. There isn't an RPO for Trans Am, only GTA. Like there's an RPO for Z28 and Iroc.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

I could always restore it to its original beauty if need be. Honestly, I don't think its a GTA but again I am waiting for confirmation. It has some electrical issues that I wonder about, The trunk motor works off and on, the pop up lights don't work and the power windows don't function either. This car will be my project for sure and I am looking forward to painting and upgrading my current bird and then turning my attention to this one.

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

go for it man!I have 2 2nd gen camaros,currently working on my third gen bird its really an 89 but is a 91-92 clone.I thought this car was a gta when i bought it,but really isn't.I don't care though because I built it.
If you want to see current pics look on the body forum under(wetsanding/buffing made easy)

FrankieRider2

Actually, there was.... WS4: Model, Conversion, Trans Am.

The two Pontiac F-car lines were "S" base (W66 Formula optional) and "W" Trans Am (Y84 GTA optional).

Klortho

Really....well you learn something new every day.

okfoz

Actually ALL Firebirds started as "S" and then through the process they were changed to "W" to designate a Trans AM (or GTA) This is really apparent on the early cars were the cowl tags were stamped with an "S" and the VIN tag would be a "W". I found that confusing as thats the case with my 1983 my VIN tag shows "W" and the cowl shows "S". After 1984 the cowl tag went away (technically its on the radiator support) and the SPID decal took its place. (SPID = Service Parts ID)

John

GTA Jim

Looking at the pictures, I see the bird emblem located between the tail lights is silver.. The GTA emblem is gold.

Also, see if you can get a larger picture of the front air dam.. There seems to be some strange stuff going on there. Here's the image you posted.



The car may be a GTA, but as mentioned, someone went to great lengths to hide the fact . I think it would be a major and expensive job to restore... It's a nice looking car though.

Grim Reaper

The car is NOT a GTA but a Trans-Am. That body color was NEVER used on any GTA in any year. Trans-AMs used that color (as well as the fenders are only used on the Trans-Am).

I also doubt the engine is a "4-bolt 350" as well. Is this a "Corvette L98 Engine"? Well, the L98 Corvette was only a 2-bolt. The only thing different on the Corvette L98 were aluminum heads after 1986/1987 (I believe 1986 Corvette convertibles first got the aluminum heads and in 1987, all Corvette L98s got aluminum heads. But that is the major difference between a "Corvette" L98 and an F-body L98. Neither were 4-bolt, only 2-bolt.

But, given the other "irregularites" with this car, I bet it is just a 305. The seller either knows nothing about this car or he's an outright liar. But, I suspect this is just a Trans-Am with a 305. I wouldn't trust anything stated by the seller. He knows a GTA with a 350 is worth a lot more than a Trans-AM with a 305, so he's just telling you what you want to hear (and trying to hide what the car actually has in it).

Unless he PROVES what he's saying (by giving the RPO codes) don't believe a word from the seller. But, I bet he doesn't produce the RPO codes (so he can keep up the lies and try to suck you in for maximum dollar).

BTW, if this is in Canada, contact Pontiac Historical Services with the VIN, they can give you the entire RPO codes (for a small fee). PHS is for all GM cars sold in Canada since 1948. You can call them at 1-888-467-6853. You only need to give them the VIN#. AND, make SURE the seller knows you are going to do this AND ask him to pay IF the car turns out to be a FAUX-GTA.

Better yet, tell him to get the Build Info from Pontiac Historical Service (to make sure he pays) and make him fax you a copy. Make him pay. But, I bet he won't do that (because his lies will be revealed). If you post the info he sends, I can tell you if it is the actual document from Pontiac Historical Services.

But, DO NOT believe the 4 bolt 350 story either. The L98 from a Corvette was ONLY a 2 bolt. Looking at that engine, it looks like the original TPI engine (based on the rust & grime). And it was most likely just a 305. You can prove if it is the "Corvette L98" by placing a magnet on the heads. The heads will be aluminum after 1987. It won't PROVE that it is a "Corvette L98", but it will prove the heads are Corvette L98s (if you pull the rocker covers off and get a picture of the casting number).

Just remember, that ALL Corvette L98s were only 2 bolt.

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

I think he is going to find it to be a vette L-98. Nobody would switch to vette front accesories for no reason.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

There was a vette engine in it, but now its just a 4 bolt 350 out of a truck I believe he said i will doublecheck though. The engine has minimal miles on it and the price is good. I won't be seeing the car in person until March at least, so I have lots of time to find out the truth. If its a 305 it will undoubtedly end the sale as I already have a 305 now. I have enclosed a couple more pics and will hopefully have the rpo code in a few days. (note: these pics are from earlier in the spring and before custom exhaust install.)

Maybe I will put the car on a dyno to see what size it is.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I'd check the #s on the block. Short of pulling a head & measuring the cylinder, you won't know the difference.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

He said this engine is a multiport 4 bolt v8 from a truck, the vette engine is removed.

Guest

I think its pretty pointless to sit here and argue if that car is a GTA or not. Myself, I didnt get much past the rims or front bumper. Its obviously quite modified, the underhood shot shows that. So TA or GTA, doesnt matter. There's zero value left as either car from an originality standpoint so who cares. Sure, we can talk about fenders, map pockets and taillight birds all day long, but in the end the car is what it is. It may have been wrecked and repaired with the parts on it now. It may be the person changed the taillight bird to match the car color... a color that might not even be the original color.

I'd buy the car if it runs good, and you like what was done to it. I cant get past the grilles on the bumper myself, but people have different tastes. Its plainly obvious that at some point someone swapped a vette motor in there, thats why the accessories are like that. Maybe the motor was changed at a later time to a 4-bolt, who knows. Thats about the only reason its likely not a GTA (if you even care), because it seems like someone swapped out a carbed 305 for a 350TPI from a vette, using the vette accessories and intake, and then who knows what from there. Seeing as how all GTA's were TPI, likely not a GTA.

Check the fuel lines on the intake. If they exit the passenger side of the manifold rather than pointing over to the driver side, its a vette intake base and fuel rails and that would make sense with everything else under the hood.
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Referring to silver? There's a guy locally that has one, and I'm pretty sure he hasnt changed it any.

FrankieRider2

max, Silver was never on the GTA color palette. Gunmetal Metallic was the only similar color used on those cars from 1987 through mid-1991. Just an FYI.

Guest

Thats the color then.

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

wonder why he blocked out part of the digital gauges with the wheel spoke. I would have thought he would have showed all so that you could see everything was working

Still a nice car though aside from it needing work.

Mark_ZZ3

Since your in Canada, take the Vin to you local GM dealer parts counter and ask them for a printout of the option codes - cause you need to order some parts for it. See if the Y84 shows up or not.

Mark.

Grim Reaper

Ask him what year the truck engine is and if those are the heads from the truck? That could help provide info to determine if he's on the level or just handing you a bunch of hooie.

There was never a "multi-port" 350 used in trucks (they were all TBI). The intake would have had to come from the "Corvette" (or the original 305). And then, the heads from the truck (depending on the year) would have to be Vortecs (and the stock intake base would not bolt onto Vortec heads -get where I'm going with this?) He would have to use a Vortec base to install those on Vortec heads...which I seriously doubt has been done.

The best thing to do is get the block casting number as mentioned above BUT only do that if the story "jives". You don't really want to waste your time and crawl underneath to verify the casting number unless his story checks out.

But if his story starts to "fall apart" and you truly want a 350, then you know to pass on this puppy (and you don't have to bother crawling underneath to verify the block casting number).

Grim Reaper

It's the "shade" of the color that looks incorrect to me. Actually, it looks more like it was repainted and they used a different shade than the original "gunmetal" that was stock at that time.

FrankieRider2

Could very well be.... there is more than one color code and more than one WA number for Gunmetal Metallic: 84 and 87.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

I think its custom paint personally. Its probably a couple years old but its in decent shape. This car is a project for sure. Some current pics, with her new formula hood.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

I will do that, I will ask for the vin tonite.

91_Formula

iTrader: (1)

Did ya notice they painted the headlight shroud (not sure what it is called. the black plastic that wraps the buldb)? Neat idea, looks better than I would have thought... The bumper mod hurts my eyes. I hope it is a smoking deal, sounds like it could be a pretty big basket of surprises....

JT

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure, but that may not be successful. Down here, GM dealerships generally can pull RPOs from the computer for 1989+ VINs. Having a 1987, I think you may be out of luck. But it's worth a try.

As to the color, I'd really never claim a GTA or Trans AM based on that fact alone. Aside from the fact these cars were known to have bad paint from the factory, which resulted in lots of repainted Third Gens, a ~20 year old car here could have been painted by the owner because they wanted something different. The car is already "customized", so a different colored paint job is definitely not out of the question.

Grim Reaper

I agree with JT, it entirely depends on the Dealership. My sister works for a Canadian GM Dealership and she got me the PHS phone number years ago when I wanted to get my Build Sheet (I bought the car brand new from the dealer she works at and I never got the Build Sheet). She told me the dealerships are suppose to promote PHS for that service (RPO codes & with the number of vehicles sold with that option in Canada). Knowning how many vehicles had some of the important options like engine & GTA's in a particular year was nice to know.

JT, the color was just "another factor" in what we know is a "long list" of irregularities. Personally, it's the fenders that make me conclude that this is just a TA and not a GTA. But "counterfeiters" also forget that the GTA were painted in far fewer colors than TAs.

I always get a good chuckle when I meet some person selling a rare "blue" GTA and a 5-speed 350 that was only sold the particular year the GTA.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Man... Whoever said that was a "clean" car... im not sure Ide agree. This guy is taking junk photos at best. I wouldnt be surprised if once you see it in person, it looks a lot worse.

I still see nothing that proves its not a GTA. Nothing that proves it is either though. About the motor. Is the BLOCK a 4 bolt 350? WIth the vette heads, intake and accesories? Maybe thats what the guy meant?

The painted bezels... Looks to me like they were just part of this guys "bling" factor. With those hideous bumper grills... Andt he fact that he painted the T-top trim, which doesnt look THAT bad. Probably just did the bezels to be consistant.

Also noticed hood pins in that one pic...???

If that car isnt rusted out, and the body is still pretty straight, Ide say it still has potention. New bumper cover, areo wing, hood, and wheels is where Ide start. Maybe a re-paint unless that paint is nice.

More than anything else though... Ide be worried about how this guy is dancing around pics and info. How long does it take to walk out, snap the RPOs, or the under carrige...then toss em on the net? Not trying to say he is shady per say...but definetly being a pain

J.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

The car is stored at his dad's and with the weather like it is up here now, it may take him a few days. I am not sure about the 4 bolt block being 4 bolt with the vette accessories. To be honest I think the owner of this car is not very old and did not grow up a grease monkey. I just think the questions I ask him make him confused and he then asks his Dad and if he don't know then he is out of luck.
I really don't think he is a bad guy intentionally trying to rip anyone off. I will see the car in person before I buy it and will put it through its paces.
The engine is my main concern, I want to see exactly what kind of engine it is and if it is indeed a 5.7 multiport v8.

gary sanders

Thank you ,thank you very much!!!!!
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Grim Reaper

In the "collector world", you must be able to prove you ARE something before you can claim it. You are not given the "benefit of the doubt" and there is no "innocent until proven guilty"; especially when there are issues such as fenders that belong to a Trans-AM and not a GTA.

But, if you do check out the car, look for the VIN# on the fenders. I forget the specific year when GM started doing it; but GM started to put VIN# on all body panels at some point when the 3rd Gens were still being built (as I recall). It was another measure requested by insurance companies to counter the thieves and "chop shops".

If the fenders are original with a VIN# that matches the car, then you will have proof that the car is not a GTA as those fenders are definitely from a Trans-AM and not a GTA.

Similar, make sure you check the casting number on the block to see if it truly is a 4 bolt block. You may even find out that the block is the original (and it may just be a 305).

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I agree with Madmax. It is pointless at this time because the car has been so modified it does not matter. For that reason alone I would stay clear. There are most likely problems at every modification.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

The info is out and the verdict is.... Not a GTA. Thanks to all the knowledge I learned here, saved me from a car best avoided.

Spike-Z

iTrader: (4)

Amen.

kuulkatdadieo

iTrader: (1)

Sweet

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

I like that car too, t-tops/digital dash all what I am looking for in a 2nd 3rd gen.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

What officially decided it was not a GTA? Did you get the SPID or what?

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

I would have bought it. aside from badges and wheels and fender vents a gta don't offer anything better then you saying i have a gta.

okfoz

In so many ways, If it was a good buy, who cares what it has in it. I would say if he was asking $1500 I would buy it in a hearbeat. If it was a TRUE L98 car made in 1987 with T-tops and being a TA it might have been more rare than a GTA with those options

What ultimately happened is there were too many things with the car to say it was TA not a GTA as a lot of work would have been done to make someone think otherwise.

JOhn

Klortho

But with a GTA you're guaranteed to get the best of everything that was had to put in these cars (if it's still original) and the fact knowing that you own the top model of the Trans Am.

Now this may seem a bit snobbish but if you're looking for a Trans Am that is optioned out, the best way to get one is with a GTA.

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

I honestly see whats better about them ... All it was, was a marketing thing is all tell me what it had that you couldn't get on a regular trans am. to option out a T/A like a GTA wouldn't cost much more yet the GTA costed alot more then a trans am. To me all a GTA is.

mono-chromatic paint
firebird fenders
ws-6 suspension
rims
seats
a few emblems

Call me crazy but the extra price in my eyes didn't warrant what you got with the GTA package. Because the majority of all the nice stuff was optional just like the trans am anyways. Like 350, leather, electronic climate control, T-tops, automatic. Yep GTA to me was just "as a customer" I don't have to make a options wish list the car will be optioned with this stuff at additional cost anyways LOL.

performance wise they lost to formulas, pocket book wise they lost to all, so for all the extra price you didn't get much but a ego boost.

goalieforlife

iTrader: (4)

Not sure, never asked, I think he may have found the RPO. He just told me it was just a trans am. I don't think he is greasy though I just think he is just green when it comes to 3rd gens.

I still may, but I am hesitant when it comes to the engine. The L-98 has been taken out. I am not convinced he knows for sure. I cannot confirm if it is indeed a 5.7 multiport in the car, which is what he says it is. No truck came with multiport that I remember, and he says the engine came from a 92 truck.

If the price was only $1500 I would have it bought already! The price is decent but its not a steal by any means. Like I said above, I believe the vette engine has been removed, which makes this car less "rare", I still plan to look at this car in the coming months. Until then, I will keep everyone posted on what happens with the engine and post any more pics if I get em.

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

If the price was only $1500 I would have it bought already! The price is decent but its not a steal by any means. Like I said above, I believe the vette engine has been removed, which makes this car less "rare", I still plan to look at this car in the coming months. Until then, I will keep everyone posted on what happens with the engine and post any more pics if I get em.[/QUOTE]

wow he wanted more then 1500 for that ... yea more then that I would have said no ..... I found a 91 GTA for 2900 just down the street that I have my eyes on. I personally as riced out as that car appears a 1,000 would have been a fair price for it but over 1,500 thats wrong.