wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

For those of you who are interested in 82-84 Firebirds, I’ve assembled a PDF to assist with decoding. I put it on my download page but here is a direct link (http://www.82firebird.com/198284Firebirddecoding.pdf ),

It’s just a bunch of data that I use regularly. If you find any errors, spelling or otherwise let me know. F.Y.I. it's 6 megs so if you have a slow connection it may take a while to download.

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

awesome...lots of useful info!

daveb123

That is really cool, I wish one of these was put together for 82-84 Camaros! BTW, 1982TA, I was looking at the thread with your build sheet & used some of yours to help decipher mine. Your car was built at Van Nuys the same day as mine! I'm hoping to start my mechanical restoration in '08 & all the info here is really helpful!

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

I’m in the middle of my restore now. I wish it were warmer though. This site has helped me out a lot and there is a lot of great info here.

Randy82WS7

interesting

i have no idea what this is but it sounds good



good job there jeffy


the early third gen birds rule all! D

TAdan

Well I got as far as your first spreadsheet about car production/ per day, etc... And all I can say is Great work! I look forward to seeing the rest of it, hehe.

Thanks for sharing it with us.

okfoz

Jeff,
Where did you score the information, specifically Production numbers???

I would (almost) Kill for that info for 1985-1992 on the Pontiacs...

John

okfoz

I found something for your web site you might be interested in. I have a 1/16 Scale 1982 Firebird by Revell, you have the MPC version... I can get you a pic if you like.

John

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

The production data came from “Automotive News 1982 Market Data Book”, “Automotive News 1983 Market Data Book” and “Automotive News 1984 Market Data Book”. They go 1985 to 92 but I only own the 82-84 copies. They are at my local library, I can make some scans if you want. But it may be a week or two before I can get down there. I haven’t actually looked in the later editions but I would assume they contain the same type of data. I also see them on eBay from time to time.


The cars per day is me dividing the cars per month by number of days in that month. It’s just an estimate.

That would be cool if I could get a pic, I’ll add it to my site.

Dr. Dirt

Hi all,

I'm a new member to the site, though I've been lurking as a guest for years. After looking over wild jeff's excellent website, I decided to join, and this thread looks like a good place to introduce myself to fellow Early Bird enthusiasts. I divide my time between my love of 82-84 Firebirds and 72-80 Dodge Trucks, but the PowWag is running fine, so I'm in a Firebird-mood. I'm not a posting maniac, so don't expect to see me lighting up the boards, but your support and expertise will be much appreciated as I tackle the 'Bird again. Here's my story:

I bought a cherry 1984 Trans Am in March 2000. I enjoyed it for several months, and then lent it to a relative who was in dire straits. This relative was into some bad stuff, and hung with a bad crowd, so the car was "stolen" twice, and driven to Mexico and back once. Luckily, I got it back in May 2001, albeit with a blown engine, trashed interior and some body damage. I dragged the carcass home and by May 2002, I got tired of hooking it to the Dodge and dragging it out of the way every time I wanted to mow under it, so I decided to throw an engine together. Too much money later, it's still far from how I want it, but it's a great driver, and if I could drive, it would turn in decent times at the strip. But the work continues, slowly but surely as funds and ideas become available. My goal is stock looking inside and outside to preserve the early 80s vibes, but upgraded power and handling. I've got a long history working with F-bodies, going back to high school, when you couldn't throw a rock without hitting a third gen Camaro! I surely don't know it all, though, so I look forward to discussions on this board.

bj1888

awesome. very helpful

okfoz

Between Kettering University and the Flint Public Library I was able to get all the info Thanks anyways... I am not entirely sure where they are getting their info, its different than some of the numbers from PHS I have...

Here is a pic of the 1/16 scale 1982 "Firebird" I bought this one for $20 as it had a broken rear window... I am thinking of chopping it up and making it into an 89 Formula 350 Convertible ... I've had it for 2 years and done nothing with it so we will see...

JOhn

Blackknight

iTrader: (1)

Awsome PDF Man!!!

L69HAWK

iTrader: (1)

jeff. u are the man. i just went through all my rpo's and then added up all the options. my total cost of options is $5,014. this thing has it all, except the recaro and the leather l/s seats. i have the cloth l/s seats. thanks again.
jay.

oh.btw. does anyone know the msrp of an 84 t/a?? i can't find it.

simo

Basic MSRP = $10,689.00

Destination Charge = $414.00

I posted a 15th Anniversary window sticker at the 82-84 site

15th WS, Invoice and BS

L69HAWK

iTrader: (1)

thanks.
is that the base price of the base firebird or the base trans am?

simo

Base of the Trans Am

L69HAWK

iTrader: (1)

cool.thanks again.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

I'd love to know how you came across this info about the Van Nuys cowl plates with seemingly-random combinations of the letters D, B, W, N, ans S. This one personally stumped me for YEARS, and I never knew WTF was up till I read your PDF! It proved itself worthwhile just for that.

Line 4 - Options
Van Nuys (D B W N S)
D - Rear spoiler
B - Luggage compartment trim
W - Rear Wiper
N - Locking fuel door
S - Radio accommodation package

NowTheBadNews

iTrader: (3)

Why for the 82 is it missing so many RPO numbers?

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

Quote:

Originally Posted by NowTheBadNews

Why for the 82 is it missing so many RPO numbers?

Do you have an example of a RPO I’m missing? I’ll check my books and make any corrections.

Glade you found it useful. I found this data by personal observation. The body tag is for body options so I started with that. Then I created a spreadsheet with cowl tag info and options from real cars that I had come across, and then I looked for a pattern and verified it when I found new cars. It took me a few years of collecting data, which is why I’m confident in my results. I’m 99% sure of my data so I included it. Finding the S was the hardest. Most cars have the radio accommodation package so it took a while to figure that one out.

90TA

Unfortunately, those letters are "Interior Type and Design Trim Level" codes.

Depending on how optioned, a different trim design was required.
Some examples, the rear cargo shade required different interior rear side panels; the rear wiper required a different interior hatch panel, the rear cargo door required a different interior rear back panel, etc.

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

Right, that’s what I said, I think. I’m not sure what you mean by unfortunately. The rear wiper for example also has a different desk lid, it has a hole in it. And as stated the rear cargo shade has metal mounts in the body where the plastic holders screw into as well as other specific parts.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

A few, right off the top of my head, all of which apply to 1982:

N89 - turbo cast aluminum wheel
55P - gold wheel color
W69 - firebird s/e model
WS4 - trans am model
N95 - wire wheel covers

if you want to get really technical,

9D0 - order acknowledgement (on my PHS)

GT

kizz

iTrader: (1)

I really commend you for the hard work! That's the only way to do it. It's good to know I'm not the only one who goes to great lengths to come up with unusual data now and then. For example I wrote scripts to run all possible 1982 firebird VIN number combos (we're talking millions) through carfax to see how many actual cars I could find (ones that returned records). After months of tedious work I found 75% of the 116,000 or so firebirds, and made up a master VIN list. This was about 6 years ago. I should go through the remaining 25% to see how many of those have since risen out of the darkness..

See if you can make sense out of this:

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

Hmm… not sure how I missed N89 . I didn’t add the color code because they are in the paint section.but I’ll make the additions and post an update, hopefully this weekend. Thanks for pointing that out.

90TA

What is meant by “unfortunately” is, ALL of those letters are “Interior Type and Design Trim Level" codes ONLY.

The rear spoiler “D” and locking fuel door “N” do not apply as there is no change to interior trim for those items. Were you thinking of the RPO code since both start with the same letter as in D80 and N09?

Each letter is for a separate interior area. If you notice the different letter combinations on the tags you have seen, some have more letters, and others with less are blank in that area. Examples: D B W N S, D _ W N S, D _ _ _ S. The letter designates the optional interior trim combination required for that area, such as for the examples I previously mentioned.

If you want to narrow down what each signifies, you will have to look at the differences in interior trim ONLY.

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

My observation is that the letters are for body options not trim options, there is already a place for trim codes on the cowl tag anyway. So, if there is a D then the car gets a rear spoiler, if there is no D then it does not get a rear spoiler. If there is a W it gets a rear wiper, if there is no W then it does not get a rear wiper and so on.

In my research I have looked at the trim combos and a bunch of other stuff and I believe I have found what the letters stand for. I’m always interested in new data so if you have other data I’m interested but I don’t believe the letters are for trim options. That’s what I believe and I’m sticking by it.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I never like to take sides, but looking at car pics and cowl plates I've collected over the years, it appears that 90TA is wrong and wildjeff is right. Those 5 letters on Van Nuys cowl plates have nothing at all to do with the interior or any design trim level.

The latest example is a 1982 Firebird S/E I just acquired with all 5 letters, D B W N S, and it does in fact have rear wing, rear wiper, trunk trim, locking gas door, and radio accommodation package (I assume that just means the car in question would've come with *some* kind of radio, and the factory wiring and speaker wiring for it)

gt

90TA

When wildjeff first started trying to figure out the letters’ meanings, I tried to lead him in the right direction on where and what to look for, based on information put on build orders at Central Order Processing prior to being sent to the assembly plant. The letters were for what I had stated. But, what do I know? I get to retire from COP at the end of this year after 30 years.

I don’t know the extent of wildjeffs’ research. Does it include all 3 models (Firebird, SE, and Trans AM)? How many examples of each model, and were the tags compared with build sheets?

My daughter drives the 83 SE I ordered for my wife. It is still original. The tag has D W N S, built 04A. NO rear spoiler, NO rear wiper. It has the cargo shade, the locking luggage compartment door, and of course the B20 Luxury Trim, yet does not have a “B”. So, why the “D” & “W”, and NO “B”?


The research needs to be reevaluated. Or one can just believe what they want.

TAdan

This is a very interesting discussion.

Has anyone ever found a former employee from VanNuys or Norwood. Perhaps someone who worked on the assembly line or in the factory could lead us in the right direction...

I havent pursued it (yet), but I've always wondered "Why not ask the people that built them". Just a thought.

90TA, I take it you are a GM employee? (COP) I'm sure you have different insight than those of us on the consumer end.

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

This is very interesting indeed. I'm all about finding answers. 90TA, I'm assuming when you say you're retiring from COP, that means you're retiring from GM Central Office something or other (not sure what the P stands for) and are a GM employee. You must have access to all kinds of good stuff. To answer your question, I have documented approximately thirty cars and looked at another 10 to 15. I understand 50ish cars out of half-million cars (82-84) is not all-encompassing or even statistically significant but I felt fairly confident in my results and still do. However, I'm not so high and mighty to simply declare myself infallible.

I think the next step is for me to add a page to my site where people can enter cowl tag information and option information. If we can get information on a few hundred cars that would be great. What will also be interesting is to see how many people actually enter in data. I also envision a report page which will show entered information. I'll just have to be careful not to gather any personally identifiable information. Otherwise people won't want to use it.

In the spreadsheet I was keeping during my data collection, I was collecting the following information.

Model
Year
T-tops (yes/no)
V8 (LG4) (yes/no)
V8 (LU5) (yes/no)
V6 (yes/no)
I4 (yes/no)
Rear Wiper (yes/no)
locking fuel door (yes/no)
Hood (standard/Premium/turbo)
Transmission (auto/manual)
Power antenna (yes/no)
A/C (yes/no)
rear defroster (yes/no)
seats type (yes/no)
rear spoiler (yes/no)
power hatch release (yes/no)
rear shade (yes/no)
Black Applique Tail lights (yes/no)
Instrument Cluster Gauges (yes/no)
body side molding (yes/no)
Radio accommodation package (yes/no)
Electric Mirrors (yes/no)
Electric Seats (yes/no)
Ground Effects (yes/no)
Luggage compartment trim (B48) (yes/no)

90TA - what other information would you suggest I gather and if anyone else has any ideas on what information should be gathered please post it.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

Well now I am having second thoughts on wildjeff's DBWNS theory. A friend of mine just took a look at an 82 S/E of his which has the luxury compartment trim, yet the cowl tag says D _ W N S and I know the car is original because I have seen it first-hand. His 82 T/A which is basically loaded with everything except WS6 also has the luxury compartment trim and shows D _ W N S.

Another 82 S/E we just acquired and I have seen first-hand is the one I mentioned above, with D B W N S and I think it has every available option except t-tops and front license plate holder.

GT

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

So that is 3 with B20 and no B on the cowl tag,
kizz - do you have a build sheet?

kizz

iTrader: (1)

The cars I mentioned are not mine, so let me ask the owner for permission to post the build sheet. I know he has at least one of them on his 2 "D _ W N S" cars and the new car with "D B W N S" also has a build sheet but it's still under the seat.

gt

SolarGoldRaptor

Sorry to bring back an old topic, but that kind of stuff has always interested me. I'm partial to unknown or forgotten models like the Firebird S/E or the older Esprit (I'm restoring one).
So, I might be going to buy a 1982 Firebird S/E LG4 V8. It's in average condition and needs urgent body work. It's a very high optioned car, but it's been molested quite a bit unfortunately. As far as I can see, it has about every options possible, except WS6 as I could see the rear drum brakes.

The cowl tag reads :
AR9 CC1
D B W N S

But the car doesn't have rear wiper, nor locking gas door.

I'm not sure what "luggage compartiment trim" or "radio accomodation package" are, and the rear spoiler is a 92 Aero Wing. I suspect some parts have been changed over the years : the doors (VIN on the side sticker doesn't match the car), the rear hatch, the tail lights (base Firebird style), the seats (Camaro standard seats)

okfoz

WS7 was the same as WS6 before 1984 or 1985 except for the WS7 had drum brakes...

John

wildjeff

iTrader: (1)

That’s interesting, as both of those are standard on the S/E in 82. If the doors don’t match other things may have been swapped out too. Do you have the buildsheet?

Typically from what I’ve seen, the S/Es will have more options the T/A.

SolarGoldRaptor

I haven't bought the car yeat so I couldn't check for the build sheet, but as the seats have been swapped there is little to no hope to find it. I'm pretty sure those parts have been swapped before.

TAdan

Looks like your hatch is off of a 91 or 92.

L695speed

THIS IS EXCELLENT! I found my RPO codes in the center counsole and a sticker on the driver's door (it's useless because of age and weathering) My Cowl Tag is missing, either Dad drilled it out (unlikely) or it was never put on in the first place. The car came out of the Norwood assembly plant. Also what is with this Dark Sand Gray Metallic being for the Firebird and S/E only? Mind can't be any other color but that one and as far as I know its still the original paint. Also what do you mean by Two Tone? Do you mean the coloring on the W62 areo package? see my advatar for what I am talking about if you want (ignore the primer on the hood though)