jrhaus76

Got into a discussion on CZ28 about the validity of an 88-90 being techincally a Z28. A few members over there say that it is not a Z28, its an IROC-Z. Thoughts?

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

Well in 1988 GM droped the Z28 and only offered an IROC-Z from years 1988-90. Until they parted ways with IROC in early 1990. Then shifted back the option of offering the Z28.

You can serch the WEB on Camaro/IROC and find info about this from History on the Camaro.

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

Here is some info I found in less than a minute about this. This is off edmunds.com.

So that brake light blister was gone entirely from the 1988 Camaro, but so was the Z28. Since Chevy had firmly established the IROC name, all high-performance '88 Camaros became IROCs. Base '88 Camaros, meanwhile, inherited the elegant 15-inch five-spoke wheels from the Z28, as well as the Z28's lower body skirting. Also, the Z28's 5.0-liter V8 was now optional on the sport coupe; it gained a throttle body fuel-injection system to make 170 horsepower.

The rarest and most intriguing '88 Camaro was the 1LE road racing package optional on the IROCs with both the 5.0- and 5.7-liter TPI engines. Featuring oversize disc brakes, an aluminum driveshaft and a well-tweaked suspension, the 1LE was built to win showroom stock road races.

Proving that no name is forever dead in the world of Camaros, the old "RS" (but not Rally Sport) designation returned for the 1989 model year. Looking much like an '85 Z28, the RS was a basically a trim package atop the base sport coupe and was powered by either the V6 or a throttle-body-injected 5.0-liter V8. Although the 5.7 TPI V8 now boasted 240 horsepower, about the only way to tell '89 IROCs from previous years is to look at the ignition key and see if has the "Pass-Key" theft deterrent resistor embedded in it.

The IROC breathed its last breath during the short 1990 model year, as Dodge picked up sponsorship of the International Race of Champions. The big changes that year were the growth of the base V6 from 2.8 to 3.1 liters, with a bump in output from 135 to 140 horsepower and the fitment of driver-side airbags to all models.

jrhaus76

Hmmm... interesting. I guess I could go back and eat my words but why bother. They are all 4th gen guys who talk trash about 3rd gen cars anyhow saying we all live in WV and have ******s!

Is mull et a bad word? Anyhow, thanks for the info and what color is your car?

Iroctopless

The IrocZ was not a separate Camaro model but an option available on the Z28's. Every single IrocZ from '88-'90 was still "technically" a Z28 (when the Z28 "model" name was dropped). You will never find one from those years without the Z28 RPO.

jrhaus76

THANK YOU... exactly what I said. Call it what you want, its a Z28...

Check out the thread, its pretty funny I think:

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=642221

Iroctopless

Ask them where they think the Z came from in IrocZ?

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

You can make it what you want. I have to say they are not tecnically a Z28 they are IROC Camaros. For it to be even technically a Z28 it would have needed to be its own model. Never saw Chevrolet have a Z28 car only a Camaro Z28. A Z28 is an option of the Camaro not Camaro an option of a Z28. So with that said both Z28 and IROC were options of the Camaro.

So you can go with what you want to say. As I see it we still live in a free country.

scottmoyer

You are wrong in thinking the IROC-Z is not a Z28. If it was not a Z28, then why did every dash have a badge that said Z28? In 85-87, you could order a Z28 with the IROC-Z package (B4Z). GM decided to slim down the model line in 88 and have only 2 models, the SC and the very successful IROC-Z. Why not capitalize on the success of the race series and the vehicle model? Chevy decided that all Z28s will have the IROC-Z package as standard, so they eliminated the IROC-Z RPO (B4Z) and left the Z28 RPO code. If the Z28 went away, then the RPO B4Z would have been the package from 88-90. Anybody that thinks the Z28 went away in 88 and returned in 91 is just plain wrong!!!

daferris

iTrader: (8)

To solve this I have the sales brochure from when I bought my 1988 IROC-Z28 new I will scan it and e-Mail to Jt in the morning That way we can see just what Chevrolet called them as my car has IROC-Z on the outside and Z-28 on the dash...

Dave

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

• To distinguish a 1988 IROC-Z on the street, they had a third brake light on the rear spoiler. They also had the N96 Aluminum Wheels(15in standard/16in optional). They had a the IROC-Z door emblems toward the back of the door under the door handle. Also, the double stripe just above the ground effects had the black stripe on the top. All IROC-Z's had body color ground effects to differentiate from Z28s and Sport coupes.
• Note the DX3 RPO Delete Stripe Option eliminated all IROC-Z decals and stripes if selected.
• Vinyl was not an available fabric beginning in 1988
• A convertible was available in 1988.
• Beginning in 1988, all engines were fuel injected. The carburated engine was no longer available.
• In 1988 a true serpentine belt system was used replacing the combo serpentine/V belt system used from 1985 to 1987.
• The Z28 model was dropped and replaced by the IROC-Z model.

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

Geez, all '88-'90 IROC-Z's had the RPO Z28 and said "Z28" on the dash! How frickin' hard can it be!

scottmoyer

FUNIROC,
You keep quoting websites which are put together by people that are uninformed or just don't know. Granted, the above info might have come from another enthusiast site, but that doesn't make it so. Some of these same sites say that there were 50 L98 1986 IROC-Zs available. Again, they were not available.

As for the brochures, they have referred to the car as the Camaro IROC-Z since 1985. The 1985 brochure introduces the car as the Ultimate Z28 and then goes on to refer to the car as the Camaro IROC-Z. Here is the page from the 87 Camaro brochure. The 87 IROC-Z was still an option on the Z28, but yet they seperate it out due to options available on it.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I think it's really a moot argument. There's no right or wrong. Is the RPO code the end all, or is the model name?

My opinion is that they are NOT technically Z28s, based on the fact that the MODEL NAME was dropped. Badges and RPOs aside, that's my take......but it's still got the RPO so we can debate the issue til the cows come home.

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

I am just showing info I found. Here ia a GM Data Sheet from 1988. We can call the 1988-90 IROC-Z a Z28 or IROC-Z28 I dont care.

jrhaus76

This has been a very heated discussion on both sites. I think the problem comes from the fact that some (most) people feel the Z28 is a seperate model. ITS NOT. Its a Camaro. Thats the model. The Z28 is an RPO, B4Z was an RPO... etc. They are all just codes. The Z28 has been around since 67 as an RPO (minus a few un the 70s) and it was an RPO on the 88-90 cars:


To battle this point is... well point less. The RPO is there. Still say my 89 is not a Z28? How can it not be, its plain as day in the RPO list. Yes, it is an IROC but that is because there were no seperate IROC and Z28 (pointless) option packages in 88-90. The line in the GM brochure is simply stating that the non-IROC Z28 is no longer available. That does not mean the car is not a Z28, it's just a code, not a seperate model, that has become a mainstream designation.... like Z06, WS6, F41, all of these codes appear as emblems on the vehicles but ar not seperate vehicles... just option codes that GM thought were worthy enough to badge on the vehicle.

FUNIROC

iTrader: (4)

That is what I was trying to say in my second post. Camaro is the model, Z28 and IROC-Z were versions of a Camaro. So you can say it how every you want. GM Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z28 is how it should be if you are going by the badges. All of them are on the car.

Ok, and on my 1989 GM Sales Brochure they never show anything to do with Z28 it is all IROC-Z.

The big thing here I am not trying to cause any problems. I am only showing the info I found. So please I hope I have not offended anyone not my intent.

Oh, does anyone here have any 1989 Z28 EGR vacuum soleniods? I can't find them anywhere.

Please have fun here and dont let this get to heated.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

jrhaus76:

You have a nice GH3!!!!!!!!!!!! You know, a GH3!!!!!!! It says it right there on your RPO list. GH3!!!! Heck yeah!!!!!!!!!

Point being, there are LOTS of RPO codes, but only a certain few mean MORE than a bunch of trivial options. Only a few become part of our culture. The Z28 was so popular early on, it became it's own model (or version) of Camaro. it became more than the RPO. This is fact.

Look at the Chevy Silverado Z71. Z71 is an RPO. Colorado's, Tahoe's, and Avalanche's all have that z71 option, but only a Silverado IS A Z71!!! Go ask 100 truck guys what a Z71 is and they'll all say a Silverado. Again, it goes beyond simply an RPO.

Another example: 4th gens. SS cars all start as Z28s, but when someone asks what model you have, no one says z28 with the SS option, you just say SS. Sure, it's technically a Z28 per the RPO, but it's not really.

....but again, I guess it is. ...but it's not. ....really. Well maybe kinda.

jermdm

I want to get in on this. My car is an 89 iroc-z, which I also have the z28 option on my rpo label. I know irocs and z28 are the same car. The dash badge says iroc-z z28. One thing I have noticed is the side ground effects and rear bumper emblem can say iroc-z or z28. I've seen irocs with the iroc-z badge on the bumper and side ground effects and other irocs that say z28. Why would one iroc say iroc-z and another say z28? Just something I've been wondering.

jeffwilly

irocs after 88 had iroc-z on the rockers and 85 to 87 said z28.
I think they are z28s rpo!

jrhaus76

Yes the 88-90 cars, the ones we are discussing, have IROC-Z on the rocker and rear bumper. Previous years had Z28 b/c the a Z28 could or could not be IROCs but they were a Z28. IROC required another RPO B4Z or soemthing... Starting in 88 there was only an IROC-Z28, no option of a non IROC Z28 so they changed the emblems. The newer (88-90) were still infact Z28 optioned cars.

Hell I rarely call my car a Z28, I call it an IROC b/c thats what it is, but to say its NOT a Z28 isn't true.

This whole agruement is pointless, the cars are Z28 optioned cars, like Abubuca says, I have about 50 other codes but they arent mainstream and havent become synonomous with the vehicle, as with the Z71... or WS6, tell someone you have a WS6... I would immediatly think Ram Air T/A, but a newer comp G Grand Prix also has WS6 but no one cares.... If you own one of those comp G cars and want to go around and tell people you have a WS6 Grand Prix you will probably get a lot of " WTF is that?" looks but tell you have a Comp G and... well you'll probably get the same look but .... Z28 has been around since 67 and has grown to symbolize an icon in american muscle cars, but in the end, its just an RPO code like my 89 IROC GH3, gotta love them 2.77 rear ends.... note my profile addition GH3!

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I'm just happy I could inspire you to look up a GH3!!!!

...unless of course you KNEW it off the top of your head!!!!

I have a GH3 car too, but I swapped in a different rear end. I suppose we can debate if it's still a real Gh3 or not!!!

Iroctopless

I'm just proud to be part of the group of IrocZ owners who are fortunate enough to get the K05 edition!

okfoz

Edumds is wrong...
1) Some of this was discussed so I will try NOT to go over these again but I inadvertently might..
2) the 5.0 was available on all SC's & later RS's from 1982-1992, originally it was the LG4, later in 1988 & up it was the LO3...
3) the Brake Blister light??? I am thinking it was probably the 86 rear window 3rd brake light... very few SC's in 1987 had the 3rd brake light on the rear window, so I can see that it was possible...

The 1LE originally used ONLY the LB9/M5, I want to think starting in 1991 possibly 1990 you could have gotten a 350 1LE, I want to think it coinsided with the introduction of the B4C...
The RS was also used in 1987 & 1988 in limited markets... California, Texas Colorado some to mind, someone would have to correct me on this.
Technically it was the IROC-Z not the IROC The rest is true ( I did not check the HP ratings )

Ultimately Edmunds is not a great source for information on the topic...

I really had to do this... If i am wrong let me know, but that is the best of my memory...

John

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

I have several books on Camaros, and most of them are grossly inaccurate.

scottmoyer

The 1LE cars were available with both engine options. The 305 required the 5 speed and G92 and AC delete to get the 1LE. The 350 required the G92 and AC delete to get 1LE.

jrhaus76

I did not know what GH3 was, I did look it up. I have a sheet I made that deciphers all my RPOs. I am a dork like that!

What is KO5? Ragtop? Not a big fan of the 3rd (or 4th, or 1st for that matter) rag tops. Something about a muscle car with a rag top that does not work. No disrespect for ragtop owners, just my opinion!

okfoz

Again, I do not believe ANY 1LE's before 1991 came with the L98... Feb 1990 (Beginning of 1991 Production) a Distribution Bulletin states that only the LB9/M5 qualified with the G92/1LE package. THEN June 14 (which sets it in the mid production year of 1991) there is a Distribution bulletin that states that the L98 was added to the 1LE package... Again it sounds like its about the same time as the B4C started getting the 1LE package, there may be a coincidence to it...

These are for Firebirds, BUT usually what is good for Firebird is good for Camaro and vise verse, especially when talking about drive trains...

These are both linked to Frankie riders www.gtasourcepage.com http://www.gtasourcepage.com/cdbsection.html





John

DARKmj16

iTrader: (6)

i would just like to point out that the techinally name for the 88-90 z28/iroc was iroc-z28... i assume it was a little hard to fit iroc-z28 onto badges so they shorten it to iroc(or irocz, i forget which one) for the outside and pretty much every perpose for the name but kept z28 for the inside to show it waz still a z28 package.

Iroctopless

K05 means my vert's engine has a block heater.

How so? Many of the greatest cars with tons of hp are also available as ragtops. Camaro, Corvette, Dodge Viper, Lotus Elis, Ferrari 360 Spider, Lamborghini Gallardo Spyder, Porsche 911 Carrera, etc, etc. I like both (hard top & vert), but going 100mph+ with the top down is quite a rush!
Plus they turn the girls heads!

jrhaus76

Maybe I need to be more clear about what I said... First, I love all third gens. They hold a certian place in my heart so I love all the body styles, coupe, t-top and vert.... but I am just not a huge fan of the vert for me personally on a muscle car. I love open top driving... sunroof, t-tops, targa top, convertible... just not a fan of the looks of a muscle car convertible. Most of the cars you mentioned are not muscle cars... they are exotic, except the corvette... its kind of in lala land not sure where to fall. Not nice enough or expensive enough to be an exotic, but too refined to be a muscle car. All of the cars you listed make wonderful convertible, except the Camaro, different league. Camaro, Mustang, 'Cuda, Chevelle... you know muscle cars, all look better in the fixed roof, IMO. Another thing about verts is the look like total crud with the top up, with the exception of a few retractable hard top cars, SL, SC430, BMW 3 series... I am sure there are a few more but you get my point I think. I was not ******* convertibles, just on cars the fall into the muscle car category.

On a side note, I was at Hocking Hills this weekend to do some hiking and when I pulled into the parking lot there was about 15 Lamborghinis, 10 Ferraris a few Porsches and one of the brand new Mazeratis... my jaw hit the ground. Some stunning cars with several stunning convertibles.

Iroctopless

Because we both have different opinions is the same reason they offered muscle cars in different styles. It's not that either one of us is wrong, it's that we're both right.


Wow, that's a great impromptu "car show"!

okfoz

I kind of agree with you that a Hard top or T-top does have a better "Look" to it than a Vert... (I have all three I can say that). BUT there is nothing better than cruising around with the top down in the evening after a nice summer day... Not much of a Sun worshiper here, but I really like my vert... If it was not so uncommon I probably would not have bought mine...

I want to think that this has been stated but someone did get it a little confused... the Z28 was an option on the camaro, and the IROC-Z was an option on the Z28, with that said in 1988 -1990 the Z28 model was dropped, you could only get a Z28 with the IROC-Z package, therefore all was left was the Z28-IROC-Z, to reflect this the RPO's still had the Z28 listed...

John

gto woody

My 90 Irocz has Z28 stamped on the mount next to the pass side strut mount.It also has the K05 option,only 828 made for that yr.Does anyone know how many Iroc's were sold in canada in 1990?

okfoz

I would be interested in a pic of the Z28 Stamping


John