80schild

iTrader: (5)

I heard yesterday that GM will likely get rid of Pontiac . Anyone have any thoughts on how this may effect the value of Firebirds in the future?

Shoot, if things keep getting worse Chevy may not be around either.

1982TA

iTrader: (1)

I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand I would hate to see pontiac go...but on the other hand, I don't think it would be missed. All nameplates that have carried Pontiac are gone, there is no more recognition of brands anymore. Also, until GM starts making cars people want, and does something about their shoddy build quality, it might not just be pontiac that disappears. As far as effecting value...I don't think it will make any difference at all. It won't make these cars more desirable just because the division is gone. just my

BLACK92B4C

I bought my 1992 1LE B4C for $1700, with a ton of new parts too. It was a dropped project from another guy though. I got the 1991 B4C for $500, got it on the road, and sold it to another friend for $300 plus a set of ZR-1's

$2000 is typical for a driver car, at least here, but they are a slow sale..no one wants them in Hawaii.

okfoz

HI appears to be a verly limited market, I have seen several cars there that really do not sell, but would have a long time ago on the mainland.

I would suspect that you probably have an easier time selling Asian cars there than American...

John

firbster

in sept i picked up my first 3rd gen, it is a 1984 z28, l69,5spd, it has every option from what i can see from possi to rear disk, t-tops , right down to the quarts clock in the console that still works, it has 58,000 original miles , the only changes that have been made are a hurst shifter and a 140mph speedo , but i have the originals in a box , i paid $4900 for it , i bought the car from the 3rd owner down by boston and imported it into Canada, up here 3rd gens that are clean average milage seem to go in the $7000-9000 range and mint ones in the $12000-18000 range, so for me it was worth the road trip.. as far as my car being rare, who knows , now im stuck with the problem of having a mint low milage car , do i leave it and just drive and clean it? or do i carefully remove the engine and rims put them in storage and such and mod it up a bit , i anguised over changing the stereo out... but i have the original in my closet so ....i dont know... what do you guys think? is the car rareish and should i just leave it or have some fun with it ,of course i wouldnt do anything i couldnt undo...
kevin

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

I have a similar vehicle. I started with suspension upgrades. SFC, RCA's Wonder bar, Panhard bar, New KYB shocks and struts, rebuilt front end etc.. Next, I upgraded the exhaust system.Then I kept the L69 block and bolted on edelbrock intake, heads and headers...All smog legal due to living in california. I kept the H.O. calibrated Rochester carb. I probably upped my H.P. from 180 to about 240 +/- There's nothing on it that would make a purest cringe and probably only ups the value. Plus it's a blast to drive now. But you could also bolt in a ZZ4/350 and immediately up the value of the vehicle if you do a good job and dont hack it to death.

vindeezl

iTrader: (2)

I think they are very underrated and as stated KBB value is not a good representative of a car that has been cared for and has tasteful and desirable mods done to it!

Take mine for instance, bought it for $600 and have turned down $10k offers now!

Love the car, done a lot of work to it in the past 4 years, it is a member of the family and sentimental value applies to me here.

BlueIroc-Z

iTrader: (6)

Well, me and my dad picked up an '85 Z28 for $1400 with a bad trans. and exhaust. Got a trans. for free, and exhaust done for $150, and other stuff that had to be done... Now we're in it for about $2000 and with the way other ones are selling around here, it looks like if we were to try and sell it as it sits right now, there might be some difficulty even getting the original $1400 out of it. We really chose a bad time to try and flip a Camaro. Hopefully by the time summer comes around we might be able to get it looking pretty sharp and hopefully get back what we have into it.

intruder

iTrader: (1)

here is what nada says about my 85 ta

http://www.nadaguides.com/default.as...&vi=84625&da=1

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

NADA is goofy. I searched my car under "Muscle car" and it came up with high retail of $7500. I then searced it under "Sports Car" and it came up with $8500 high retail. Not very consistant

drfrankenstein

i understand how great it is to have a rare car and all, but dude id be damned if i would considered payin over 2500 for that thing... i envy the seller. he is now my hero.. one day i will come off that nice on ebay, iv been on ebay forever and still have not gotten that lucky

Goonv8

This is my take on it as I'm in blighty where niether 3rd gens Camaros and TAs are worth a huge amount. Your car is ony worth what someone is wiling to pay. Absolutely top end camaros make £5000 or $8500 and top end GTAs about £6000 or $9600ish.

True, limited editions are worth more but my car, a 1983 LU5 with working Crossfire. Not rare when made but can you get a good one now?

I paid £2500 $4000 for it in this condition with Torque Thrust 2s, fresh respray, custom interior, sub, amp. If I sell it now, I'll get what I paid for it. If I sell it in the summer, I'll get £4000 (about $6000) for it.

Its all about time, location and how much someone wants your car.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

All of the top models in mint condition are worth a good amount these days. I've seen $10,000-$20,000 regularly for some time now. It will only go up in years to come. Unless something with economy or gas prices destroys the value of cars in general.

scottmoyer

This thought process is what's actually hurting the Big 3 right now. Have you driven or checked out a new GM vehicle in the last 10 years? Until this year, GM was the largest auto maker in the world. GM, Ford and Chrysler all have higher build quality than the Toyota, Nissan and even BMW. My neighbor bought a 2008 Tundra and asked if I could help him tighten the tailgate latch. I opened up the tailgate to find the latch assembly is screwed on with small cheap screws and they were broken. This was on a 3 week old truck. He traded in a BMW X5 because of all of it's problems. All manufacturers have their issues, but when Toyota doesn't disclose their repair history accurately, it makes things worse. Toyota was found to be making repairs under "Customer Satisfaction" repairs and not as a service repair. So when an audit was done, Toyota was deemed the manufacturer with the lowest number of service repairs. When it was found that they were doing this, they were found to be one of the worst, yet public perception was already established based on reports.

My 2006 Silverado has 63k miles on it, I bought it new, has everything I wanted when it was new, Ford and Dodge trucks didn't compare to the interior size of my truck and I have yet to have any major issues with it. The problems I've had were small and known about prior to purchase. My 2003 Monte Carlo SS with 68k miles has only needed a brake job on the rear. Neither car is a rattle trap, everything still works and has worked and I expect it to continue to work.

If you think GM build quality is bad because the light bulbs burn out in the stereo, then don't buy anything! Every enthusiast site will complain about their car and the problems with it.

Ponder this:
1. Which country can boast that their brands occupy 2 of the top 3 spots for long-term reliability?

Answer: United States.
Per J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study, Mercury and Cadillac are in the top 3, along with Lexus. And in 2007, Buick was tied with Lexus for the top spot.
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

2. As of August 2007, which manufacturer had the most recalled vehicles in the U.S. for that year?

Answer: Volkswagen.
According to Business Week, Volkswagen had the most recalls at this time a year ago. The second worst was Toyota.
www.businessweek.com/a...

3. Pick the brand from each group that has the highest initial quality.

a. Answer : Cadillac (better than both Acura and BMW)
b. Answer: Mercury (better than both Honda and Nissan)
c. Answer: Chevrolet (better than Acura, BMW, and Mazda)
This is according to J.D. Power’s Initial Quality Survey.
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

4. Which midsize sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Chevrolet Malibu has better initial quality than any competitor, including the Honda Accord, Toyota Camry and Nissan Altima. The Ford Fusion also beat all 3 Japanese competitors.
This too is from the J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey, which also reveals that above average are American brands Mercury, Ford, Cadillac, Chevrolet , Pontiac, Lincoln, and Buick. Below average are import brands Acura, Kia, Nissan, BMW, Mazda, VW, Subaru, and Scion (and several others).
www.jdpower.com/autos/...
www.jdpower.com/corpor...

5. Which large sedan has the highest initial quality?

Answer: Again per J.D. Power, the highest quality large car is the Pontiac Grand Prix, beating the Toyota Avalon. Two other Detroit cars that beat the Avalon are the Mercury Sable and Mercury Grand Marquis.
www.jdpower.com/autos/...

6. Which midsize pickup has the highest initial quality?

Answer: The Dodge Dakota has the best quality for midsize pickups, proving that Chrysler too can beat the imports. Both the Dakota and the Ford Ranger beat the Toyota Tacoma.
www.jdpower.com/autos/...

7. Which car is the most economical overall?

Answer: Per Edmunds.com, the premier automotive analysis site, the most economical car in America, taking into account not only mileage but all costs, is the Chevrolet Aveo. The Honda Fit is #3 and the Toyota Prius is a distant #34.
www.edmunds.com/help/a...

8. Which car did the Los Angeles Times describe as “a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti”?

Answer: “Cadillac makes a better car than BMW or Mercedes or Lexus or Infiniti, and that car is the 2008 CTS. No other car in the mass market dares so much as this expressive and audacious bit of automotive avant-gardism.” Dan Neil, LA Times.
www.latimes.com/classi...

9.. Which company makes the winner of the 2008 “Green Car of the Year” award?

Answer: The Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid is the winner of this award.. How could a full-size SUV defeat the media darling Toyota Prius? Read the link below and you will discover, “What’s equally eye-opening is that the Tahoe’s 21 mpg city fuel efficiency rating is the same as that of the city EPA rating for the four-cylinder Toyota Camry sedan. ”

Did you catch that? A huge, full-size SUV from Chevrolet that gets the same city mileage as a 4-cylinder Toyota Camry!! Chevy obtained this remarkable achievement through the use of its 2-mode hybrid system, a technology that Toyota does not have.
www.greencar.com/featu.../

10. Which car was selected by the North American automotive press corps as the “North American Car of the Year” for 2007?

Answer: Not only was the Saturn Aura picked by the automotive press corps as better than the Honda Fit and the Toyota Camry, “When a panel of 47 journalists named the Saturn Aura the North American Car of the Year over the Toyota Camry, the vote wasn't even close, 205-89.” Chicago Tribune, 1/15/07
www.northamericancarof...

11. Which car won the same award for 2008?

Answer: GM again crushed the Japanese competition in 2008 when the Malibu received 190 votes to the Honda Accord’s 95. The Accord actually came in 3rd since GM’s other finalist, the Cadillac CTS, received 165 votes.
www.northamericancarof...

12. Which company had a luxury vehicle, a midsize sedan, and a large truck removed from the Consumer Reports recommended vehicles list in October 2007 because of mounting quality problems?
Answer: Toyota’s much publicized quality problems resulted in Consumer Reports actually removing from their recommended vehicles list the Lexus GS luxury car, Camry V6 sedan, and Tundra pickup. This demotion occurred in October 2007.

13.If you are one of the many Americans who gave up on Detroit’s cars because of a bad experience many years ago, it’s time to rethink your position. Rethink Detroit.

89RS_82Z

iTrader: (2)

book value is a joke, book value on a 69 camaro is like 3k i think and we all know you aint getting a 69 for 3k

scottmoyer

Don't know what book you're lookin in, but here's what NADA says a base 69 Camaro V6 without air costs.

PRICING

Original MSRP: $2,727
Low Retail Average Retail Value High Retail
Base Price $9,850 $15,600 $27,100

6 Cylinder Engine -15% -15% -15%
TOTAL PRICE $8,373 $13,260 $23,035

Coupe Guy

Excellent post scottmoyer, people need to do some research before they purchase a new car. Japanese cars don't have the quality people think they do. Most non enthusiasts would argue this point.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Yes, excellent post SM. If people would just do research and realize what is and isn't about todays cars and quality, US auto companies would definetly be in better shape.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Thanks to John for compiling the list of rare and collectable thirdgens. And thanks for sharing it with the rest of us. I am looking for some opinions, and will love for John to post his opinion, since he knows so much about these cars. My car is not for sale, and I do not plan to sell it, so I don't care to know what people think that it is worth, just that I am on the right track. The car is a 1986 Trans AM, WS6, T-Top car with the TPI, 700R4 trans, a 3:27 Borg Warner axle. The car is metalic blue with silver trim. It has the PW7 Cross Lace wheels, Performance Sound, power windows and locks, tilt, and cruise control. The car has had two owners. I bought it two years ago. The original owner was a elderly Cherokee artist, and has purchased the car new at Harry's Pontiac in Asheville, NC. I bought the car from her estate after she passed away. She was a car collector, and this car has always been stored inside, driven lightly, and well maintained. The car has no rust, and has never been damaged. Nothing rare so far... In addition to having a complete history of the car, it has documented 28K actual miles on it. This is were I believe that the car deserves to continue to be preserved in stock condition. Since it has survived 22 years in very good condition, it seems to me that it is well on it's way to being a collector car. Now what do others think?

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

We'll just by hearing your specs, your car is something special, partly because of low mileage and the fact that it is a Trans am. Keep it and hold on to it. Thats what alot of people are doing, thats whats driving prices up.

I have to agree with Scott and everyone on that topic of new Gm Cars, In my family we have about 7 Gm cars including, A s10, cavalier, New chevrolet cobalt which is a really well built car, 3 camaros, and 1 trans am. Out of ALL of them, We have had NO problems. The cavalier has 90k miles on it with no signs of it giving out. The s10 is in the same boat. All the rest of them are just well engineered cars and we've never had a problem with any of them. Now fords are another story . We also have a Wind-star and its transmission gave out around 50k miles.

2fast4love

iTrader: (2)

that post was great sm, i have to put my two cents in because i also have had a aimilar problem. my father in law just bought a tacoma last year, this truck has sat for most of its the year. well it turned out that they could not drive it for two weeks because it had an electrical problem. what it was i dont know all i could think is this is a new IMPORT truck how could they have problems. i couldnt help but laugh when i drove away in my 93 s10 with a 165k miles. this truck smokes like hell on start up because the previous owners never changed the oil but it still runs great and has beat my freinds altima on the mpgs. im am very proud of all my vehicles i owned and import for a year,(i bought it for 300 bucks and drove it will the my z28 was down) but i will never own one again. i just think people should drop the hype on the whole import crap, maybe they should just export the ones here now. alot of people have turned their back on the big three the ones that helped build this country and help keep it going. just my two cents if you cant buy gm atleast stay american

okfoz

Personally I think that many people seem to overlook something very important about a GM car, old or new for that matter, is they will almost always get you home. From personal experience I modified my transmission myself in 1998, about 2 years ago it decided to let go (probably my own fault) nonetheless the 700R4 did not completely die, I was still able to move the car at the minimum speed of 45 Mph on the highway, granted it was in 2nd BUT it got me to a trans shop to have it fixed.

As for the quality of newer cars, I have a 2005 Buick Rainier V8 AWD, I bought it with 60K on it. I have a few pesky things with it like the heated seat bottom does not come on most of the time, and the DIC (Driver Information Center) about 3 times a week when it gets really cold does not come on... And now the Fuel Gauge when I fill the tank the gauge goes to E for the first Gallon of gas... And the light for the HVAC controls does not illuminate... Honestly they are ALL irritations at this point and I will fix them when I get fed up with it, but NONE of them are serious problems... one is a light bulb, the other is the sender in the Gas tank, the Heated seat worked a few days ago when I moved the seat so I suspect a bad connection... The only thing that I am dreading is the DIC as the service manual does not cover its malfunction It covers Buttons not working but not one that does not light up. And there is no DTC (Detected Trouble Code) to aid in my problem.

With all that said, I am still happy with the car, annoyed at this point but still happy with it.

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

Well, somewhere down the road most of these cars will be considered collectables. However, nice lower mileage cars like yours are already starting to pull in good money. While your car seems to be very well optioned, it is still just a normal Trans Am and and will never be worth the money some of the rare cars are worth but it will definitely be a desirable car and the mileage and condition will defintiely help.

Rayvan

I bought a Pontiac G8 GT last May and it has had ZERO problems. Nothing! It's the most comfortable car I've ever ridden in/driven, It's got 360+ HP, 0-60, Q-M times, slalom speed and braking distances are identical to a BMW 550, and it gets the same mileage as a Honda Pilot. This car is a keeper...

Goonv8

You never miss something until its gone. I'm thinking about one of these here in blighty:



Its a Fiat Coupe Turbo. Designed by Chris Bangle and has 220 BHP, easily mappable to 300bhp. It does 0-60 in 6.5 and will do 144 in stock form. At the moment, like the third gen, they are largely unwanted and you can still get an excellent one for about the equivalent of $3000. We gotta get and keep our cars before they get too thin on the ground.

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

I've never understood where the entire ideas of American cars being inferior came from either. In fact, I worked in the auto industry as Quality Coordinator for a large automotive supplier. The company I worked for only dealt with GM and Ford but our parent corporation dealt with almost the entire auto industry so I've got some insight into most companies.

Not only did I deal with Ford and GM, I also dealt with many other suppliers as well. From my experience, GM is recognized as clearly having the highest quality by those in the industry. I never once talked to a supplier who believed Ford built better vehicles than GM and also none who understood why the import companies were considered far superior to the American automakers.

GM seems to keep parts simple and not overcomplicate things and I think that improves quality. Ford seems to be the complete opposite. They make their parts insanely overcomplicated which leads to problems. Every Ford supplier I dealt with hated Ford. What's worse, most of their engineers are arrogant and believe they know best because they are FORD. Clearly the highlight of the time I worked there was when we got a visit from Ford's elite engineering team because they felt their transmission problems were the result of our parts. They sent this team in that is considered to be some of the best engineers in the industry. The head of the team told me the problem was Ford's design and that if Ford wasn't signing his checks there's no way he would ever drive one. Classic!!!!

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

So, you just answered your own question in your last paragraph as to where the idea of American cars being inferior came from. A top automotive engineer woudn't own a Ford? Thats sounds like inferiority to me... You clearly favor GM. Your counterpart at some other company favors Ford. He tells similar stories about GM.

Until recently American cars were inferior to Imports. But early on, imports were expensive and impractical. Then came Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi etc.. with ample room and V6 power and economy. The big three kept grinding out big sedans with the V8. Then they found themselves playing catch-up to the imports so they threw out a bunch of poorly designed and engineered vehicles trying to stem the bleeding. It's pretty common for a Japanese import to go 240,000 miles with just basic maintenance and tuning. That was a pretty incredible feat for a detroit product from the 70's 80's or 90's, not impossible just not as common.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on the T/A. Its good to know that I am on the right track by keeping it original and low mileage.As for the debate between inports and domestic cars, that argument is almost as old a war in the middle east. No agreement, and no end in sight. Back in the 60's and 70's American car companies could not seem to build a decent small car. For some reason small equated with cheap. Some of the bad rep was well deserved. As someone who started driving legally in 1972, one thing that's for sure. Every manufacturer has built good models and bad models. As a rule, my family has gotten better service from American made vehicles than from imports. We also like to support American industry when ever possible.

okfoz

we are really off a Thirdgen topic...

I think the inferiority complex only goes so far. The Quality of many GM cars starting in the mid 80's was really improving. I hear MANY MANY people on these boards have F-bodies in the 200K mile range. I have owned 4 Firebird with over 150K that the only reason why there was ANY problems with them was ABUSE of a previous owner. One of those cars I still own and has 200+K on it and I could take it out for a drive if I was not going to part it out.

I also owned a 1983 Buick Riviera that I sold with 196K miles on it and a 1990 Buick Riviera that had 193K miles and BOTH ran great and were ORIGINAL Engine and Transmission cars. The only one I know the fate of was the 1990 and the next owner drove it for 20K and hit a deer on the way to work about a year after I sold it to him.

DID YOU KNOW that GM sold Buick 3800 Engines to TOYOTA!!! Its one of those little known facts. The engines were Painted ALL black and shipped to Toyota, not sure what they were used for, but I know people that worked in the factory painted them special IIHMFS.

ALSO it is a little known fact that When you purchase a car from GM they use different engines in different lines. As I was told by the person that did it, "although they may appear the same and have the same replacement parts. Cadillac gets the best, Buick second, Olds & Pontiac third and Chevrolet get whats left over." When they were making the 3800 here in Flint, I KNOW for a fact from talking to people that did the work that the engines were hand picked for Buicks.

Part of the problem GM probably has is the fact that MOST people buy the cheapo cars and then complain about problems. It is like buying replacement parts from AutoZone, Advance, etc, you get what you pay for many times...

You can also do a search in the http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/ database to see what cars have problems, and where to look for problems before buying used. I did that before buying My last (non F-body) cars...

John

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

VERY true. I've had ALOT less problems with 80's cars than 90's and current vehicles.

This type of behavior was back when complete morons were in charge years ago and definetly not today. (there's obviously still some morons now though) As a matter of fact in recent years, it goes more like Cadillac, Chevrolet, than everything else, because they are considered the money makers. Poor Pontiac, GM would rather keep Buick than them these days because Buick has great sales overseas. Lousy management could destroy more legacies soon.

TOM-1LE

This reminds me of an old saying:

"A Chevy will run poorly for more years than most cars run at all!"

I think it's true for the most part. But my family's experiences with GM cars of the last 15 years have mostly been less than stellar.

I was the original owner of a '92 Accord with almost 200K miles, original clutch, no repairs ever in fact. And not a single rattle or squeak anywhere on the car. A real jewel. I foolishly traded it for a new '99 Trans Am, which ended up in the shop for major warranty work (they replaced the whole differential) with only 3K miles on the clock. But I stuck with it. After three headlight motors, two power window motors, a leaky water pump, two cracked door panels, two seized brake calipers, a defective radio head unit, and finally collapsed valve lifters at 90K miles, I decided I had had enough! It did have a good transmission, though.

I now drive an '08 Acura TL Type S, which is a fine car. The '92 Camaro is my fun collectible car, and since I only drive it about 500 miles per year, reliability has never been a major concern.

Red90IROC

I think any car is worth what people will pay for it. Third gens are a special breed of car and still hold a lot of mystique for some folks, hence you still see people buying some and completely restoring them. They are a magnificent looking design and can be made into a great performance car on a budget, and parts are easy to find.

I don't know if my 84 Z is worth all I paid for it. It's in very nice shape, no rust, 19k miles... but I paid $5500 recently despite all of GM's woes. Sure I wonder some, if it's a good 'investment'... but mostly I got it because I could afford it and I just happen to really enjoy these cars. Simple as that

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Um, that car sounds like an absolute steal!

subroc

iTrader: (2)

If you got yourself an original rust free 19k Z for 5500 consider that a good deal. I got a 70k IROC for 3500 with no rust but needing some wiring work and thought i made out alright.

okfoz

No kidding... $5500 for a 19K survivor? $5500 is what I would expect for a really clean 100K car. I would be really surprised if you do not make out well on that investment personally.... Especially if you save it and preserve it. Keep up on the maintenance, drive it on weekends, or hardly at all etc

John

flippermtc

iTrader: (1)

Wow! that was a great score. John is right. Keep her stock,maintained and use her for shows or weekend fun and there is no reason you won't get that back & more. Ill will say it again there are fewer & fewer clean origional 3rd Gens around every year. They will come in to their own eventually....

Red90IROC

Thanks everyone. I was tickled to find the car... I do watch the ad's online all the time, and I was in a situation where I was all ready to buy so that makes a big difference. Many times I've called on an ad and the car is already sold

One reason why I'm not all wound up about this car making me money - it was undercoated and rustproofed by the owner (thru Ziebart). So as a serious 'investment' car... I wonder if it will ever be worth a lot (?). I have a feeling people at an auction would shy away from a car with this... maybe some here have feedback/experience on such things?

But that's fine with me. I got it because it's pretty much all the options I wanted in looking for a 3gen Z28, like the tops and the L69 engine... in fact the only option it doesn't have that I wanted was the G80 axle. There's something about the 3gen's that I really enjoy - they have a simple and clean look to them and they even still look ahead of their time today

subroc

iTrader: (2)

I wouldnt say they look ahead of there time...just not as dated as other things that came out of the 80s lol. I love the look of them myself but square headlights dates them pretty easily.

As far as the rust-proofing, if your not in it to make money i wouldnt worry about it. Just enjoy it. The one thing i would worry about is how soon they got that coating on there when the car was new. Ive had the experience that cars that are undercoated end up rotting faster than cars that are not because that stuff cracks and lets moisture in. If you think this is going to be an issue, or you are worried about value, there are ways of removing it without messing up the underbody.

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

Hey, subroc, we have matching cars except for the T-Tops.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

If the Zebart was put on when the car was new, or near new, it should be fine. Zebart is better then the undercoat crap sold by the new car dealers in the 80's. It bonds like crazy, ramains plyable, and does not appear to allow moisture to get between it and the metal. I have an 87 Dodge 4x4 that was Zebarted new, and it has been used as a winter truck. 22 years, and no sign of body rust. The Zebart has worn off of the axles, and there is some surface rust forming on the bear metal where the coating is gone, but no other issues.

When we have needed to remove the Zebart coating on the truck, I have found that mineral sprits desolves the coating, and leaves the paint intact. For any touch up, I use black chassis paint, and blend it into the coating. As for removing the coating from a car, that stuff is blown into every small space in the vehicle, and it probably is not feasable to try to get rid of all traces of it.

The presence of Zebart may make a difference to a collector, however $5500.00 for a 19K original, is a great buy. You should be in good shape. It sounds like otherwise your car is a real nice example. I do not believe that you will loose anything on it because if the Zebart.

A lot of 3rd gens have been neglected and abused. As these used up cars exit for the wrecking yards, the nice examples will began to increase in value. An add-on like Zebart may be a slight detracter, and it not have much significance to an otherwise pristine car.

A few years back, I bought and sold cars, and had for a short time two Shelby GT350's. One was a 69, and the other was a 70. The cleaner of the two cars was Zebarted, and it still brought the best price. It now lives in a private collection, and still has it's Zebart in place.

Red90IROC

Thanks for the info 86WS6. I'd been wondering about all that, and about the removal. I want to leave the car as is, but I would like to remove some of the compound from the shock towers under the hood so peeps can see the color there. It's good to know your background on the Ziebarted cars... does make sense... it's condition of the car itself that matters.

Anyone else out there looking to find a nice original 3gen - let this be an inspiration! They are still around. Even in rust-bucket zones like Detroit

I was just patient for several months, checked the online ads daily and waited for the right one to come along

subroc

iTrader: (2)

Oh yea? Which one are u refering too? My current 88 or my totalled 86 (dark red)?

EDIT: I think your refering to Red90irocs 84z.

Red90IROC

I guess that's a good way of putting it. The headlights do date them (not on the Firebirds though)... but the back window on these cars still looks very modern and cutting-edge. And 'sharp-edged' styling went out of style til recently, but now is back with a vengeance (witness the Nissan GT-R, the Caddy CTS, the 2010 Mustang...). 3Gen's are drenched with classic sharp edges... so old they look new again!
Good points. I'm pretty sure the treatment happened when new, judging from the condition of the treated and untreated metal (they don't spray the brake lines and suspension parts, which do have some surface rust). At this point I would not advise anyone to avoid a Ziebarted car, that stuff really works!
----------
Maybe subroc has a point. Post up a picture if you have one handy...

5_Speed

iTrader: (2)

Kevin basically hit the nail on the head with the bit about how today is the day when our 3'rd gens are getting to be old enough to be considered junk and sell for cheap, but once they all hit classic status regardless of condition such as with anything that is antique - the value goes up.

That's pretty much a rule in this life, unless something you own is bootleg.

My best friend got an 89 red Iroc L98 with 60K original miles or so, with the window sticker included in the sale for $1,000. After crashing it twice, he sold it for $2,000 and the person that bought it from HIM thought THEY got an amazing deal, even for a wrecked car.

The owner didn't know what they had, but it does happen.

I'm not holding onto my 86 Z28 in hopes that it will gain value, I just got it but I'm holding onto it in hopes that I will be able to enjoy a classic car from the time I was young many years from now and as with most things:

"They only get better with age."

My personal predictions:

I do not foresee ALL the 82-92 F-body cars rocketing in value when they are 40 years old like the 1'st gens did roughly $1,000 per year because they come with a bad reputation, the 80's was a goofy time when people looked like MC Hammer and drove cars that looked like they were carved out of blocks of ice. You have to face the facts.

Pristine examples 25 years from now WILL be selling for 30-40,000 such as sub 1,000 mile pace cars, L98's, TTA, etc. The common fixer upper such as my own 86 Z28 with a 350 swap, will probably be worth as much as any decent running car of it's vintage would in the range of $8,000 - $15,000 depending on state of restoration.

Thats my 3 cents worth, I've watched car prices for the past 10 years so my guess is in some respect, an educated guess.

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

My bad, I was refering to RED90iroc...

Kevin84Z28

iTrader: (3)

I thought you (Red90IROC) didn't have T-TOPS at first but I see that you do. Our cars are twins.

[IMG][/IMG]

Red90IROC

That is so cool! Your car looks excellent at the beach

Do you know if your car was ordered special? I wonder sometimes if ours was a 'dealer-order' combo, or if there was something unusual about the options being together. Not so much the colors; but the options.

LFN AT U

iTrader: (1)

If you don't think 82-92 Camaros and Firebirds will bring in good money in the future based on when they were built I think you need a history lesson. Using that reasoning, none of the muscle cars should be worth anything because the late 60's-early 70's were some of the most turbulent times in American history.

I think being built in the 80's may actually give our cars a little boost in the future. The 80's was really the decade of partying and excess and I know a lot of people really miss those days. I really believe the 50's and the 80's may have been the best two decades to grow up in. Also, you really show your age by saying the 80's were filled with people dressed like MC Hammer. That was really the late 80's-early 90's.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

One thing that will help our cars increase in value as they age is the fact that they are simplistic built rear drive American made cars with small block Chevy engines. That in itself lends the cars as excellent canidates to build as street rods. As the 60's muscle cars and pony cars increase in value to that equal to the price of gold, there will not be many choices left for the weekend car guy on a budget. I am not saying skyrocketing prices, just that it should help the cars find a stable niche as hobby cars. Based on what has heppened to most cars of yesteryear, truly rare and excellent originals should command a good price, and solid high milers should end up as street rods. A few of us can remember when 60's muscle cars were cheap. Good examples could be had for under $1000.00, and every used car lot was full of them.

liljon285

I think once the 5th gen comes out all camaros will go up in value.