gatorcola

kiss my young white . . .

Sorry to lose my southern gentile manners but those are fight'n words.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

Basett_Racing

Car and Driver gushed over the thirdgens when they were new and now they are gushing over the next big thing. When the new retro Camaro flops in a few years like the new GTO did, they'll be bashing it too. The new 1982 Camaro was a clean slate design that caused a stir and renewed excitement back into the pony car market because the late 2nd gen cars had grown to mammoth dimensions and weight. The car was striking and was unlike anything before it. The windshield rake and rear window were looked at almost like engineering marvels, and the interior looked like the cockpit of a jet fighter compared to the previous cars. The new Camaro (IMO) is a poorly- executed, throwback styled car trying to look like a '69 Camaro. Dodge hit the mark way closer with the Challenger than GM did with the Camaro. Like the 4th gen cars and the failed late model GTO, it will be an awesome drivetrain in a mediocre wrapper. Again, JMHO.

I wish they would have just designed something totally new and breathtaking. I'm totally unimpressed with the styling if it, and the closest I'll get to having one is maybe buying a wrecked one for the drivetrain later on.

CaliChevyLover

They act like thirdgens were the first fbodies to have t-tops.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I wrote a review of that nonsense and submitted it twice but it didn't show up either time when I went back to the page. Went like this:

"Wow, I thought stereotyping people the way this guy does in the begining of this review was politically incorrect. The IROC-Z is one of the brighter points of Camaro history and was one of the most sought after cars to ever hit the street. They're now getting popular with collectors. How about we recoginize and respect cars for what they are/were instead of associating them with how SOME people dressed and what was in style when the cars were brand new?"

I tried to e-mail the editor but it asks for a recipients e-mail and doesn't give theirs. I'll be using this contact info: Editors@CARandDRIVER.com

STRIKER911

iTrader: (1)

Ya that was pretty darn harsh. I hate it when people try to tell me what to think. He is very bad at forcing me to buy a new "American" made car. Auto makers need, our help, yet they keep screwing up. Should have hired one of us to write that. Would have been something like this.....
"The new Camaro is very cool, till the odometer hits 50k. Then all the wal-mart parts tend to fall off while driving down the freeway". LOL

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

I invite you all to also read this fantastic piece of journalism. This is a Yahoo.com list provided by guess who?.....CarandDriver.com, our friends. This is obviously a quest for them to insult us at every chance it seems, by yet another of their famed authors. Looks like I'll be writing another e-mail. It's at the bottom of the page:

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/auto...N1c2VkLWNhcnM-,

avro206

Those sterotypes only ever existed fictiously in peoples minds.
And the media keeps that alive. And we all know how much cred the media has. Very little.

Car and Driver did like the 3rd gens. They seemed embarrassed to drive them though. Head cases.

scottmoyer

Since we all know that information on the internet can disappear, I have included the Car and Driver insults from the website.

Any Camaro Wearing Death Metal Stickers

There’s a lot of good to be said about old Camaros: They were available with small-block V-8s, massaged right they handle well, and they’re dirt-cheap. But it’s also true that these cars attract the sort of buyer who saves his greatest loyalty for death metal legends like Slayer, Necrophagia, and Morbid Angel. Vehicle care isn’t a top priority when you have three kids by four different women and a serious meth addiction.

Caution: Beyond the band-loyalty stickers, look out for crumpled parole reports, old visitor’s passes from prominent penal institutions, and abandoned toothless children in the hatchback area. And if it smells like meth, it’s meth.

Please send C&D emails with your complaints and inform them that you will be cancelling any subscriptions to their magazines. That part might hit home.

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

I get the stereo type "you need a mullit...." all the time...get's old....it's bs...and especially bs that a mag would write an article insulting people who buy their mag.....also, to throw my two cents in...I'm not the least bit impressed with chevy lately...No t-top, No Z28, that the government will force chevy to discontinue the camaro in 2011. They are making a big deal about all the new stuff.....I'll stick with my old out of date, non-modern, non "green", crappy old camaro thank you very much.....

scottmoyer

Chevy had plans for a Z28, but the gov't made them change their short-term plans because of the restructuring. The Performance Division is on hiatus and will return. The gov't also stipulated that they can't have ttops because of side airbag requirements. Blame your Congress and Senators for pushing so heavily for safety features that make a car weigh 4000 pounds on things a true driver should not be required to have.

New cars can park themselves because we as drivers don't know how to do it anymore. Cars also dim the high beams without driver intervention, because the drivers aren't paying attention. We also have cars that will slow down when you get too close to the car in front of you. They've created smart cars so people can get dumber!!!!

Why do you say the new car will not make it past 2011? I've heard nothing about that from GM insiders, so I'd like to know the source of your info.

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

I read the article on yahoo news.....it said the same thing about how the government is making them discontinue camaro....something about how it shares a platform with another car....they have to get rid of one of the two....so they are going to pick camaro...I can't remember exact details....but I will try to search yahoo again and find a link for ya.....don't get me wrong I really like new camaro...just don't like how chevy has ran things, and what is happening with everything.....

gatorcola

If the Federal Government dictates to any company what they can not do and what they must, that company is doomed if it isn't socialized. Any private company, GM included, produces or markets products or services that consumers want. If they don't, they won't be profitable. That's a pure and simple rule of capitalism.

I hope that isn't true about the new Camaro, from what I've seen, I like it and can't wait to test drive one. Forgive me, but I also like the appearance of the retro Mustangs and I see an awful lot of them.

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

oh they are both sweet cars.....but GM has made so many mistakes it's stupid....they make me so mad.....it's like when I went down to get some piston ring from the factory (doing a factory build on a motor) and they tried to charge me $693 for a set of piston rings....I checked two different GM dealers...both same price...long story short, I bought them for $95 through summit.....It's no wonder in my mind that some of their business practices are stupid...no body would purchase a set of rings for that much....why no lower the price, and sell some items, make some money...that has to be one heck of a markup......I was also worried about the quality of new cars....are they short cutting stuff to make up some money??? whom knows...I'm still looking for that article though....post it if I can find it..

TOM-1LE

I have been a Car & Driver subscriber since 1984, and up until the last 3-4 years, I considered them hands-down the best new car magazine out there. They always had the most complete and objective test results, the best editorial content, and they weren't afraid to buck the system. Some of the most memorable, touching and humorous articles I have ever read (car-related or not) were in the old Car & Driver.

Motor Trend always seemed like an extension of the car companies' advertising departments (the Car of the Year award was pretty much for sale to the highest bidder), and Road & Track only seemed to be interested in Porsches and Ferraris. Car and Driver tested -- fairly objectively -- cars that the rest of us could afford, and supported enthusiasts on issues like the 55 mph speed limit.

Unfortunately, something happened to C & D a few years back. Most of their best talent left the magazine. The size got smaller and the editorial content got reduced. The new graphic design, which was supposed to emulate the appearance of a web page, was a total failure (if I want to look at a web page I will go to the web). I am sick to death of their current writers editorializing about fuel economy and alternative fuels. If you read their letters to the editor, you can see that they are alienating a lot of long-time subscribers like me.

When I pull out my old CD's from the 1980s and 1990s, I am saddened at how a once-great magazine could have fallen so far, so fast. I used to anxiously await every issue and would put everything aside to read it when it did arrive. I still subscribe, but it's more out of habit and tradition than out of a desire to read the magazine, and I probably won't renew again.

BTW, C & D didn't really "gush" over the Thirdgens when they first came out. They praised the styling and the smooth-road handling, but once they actually drove production models, they were disappointed in nearly every other aspect of the car. They didn't start getting positive reviews until the IROC came out, and even then, C & D usually picked the Mustang over the F-bodies in most comparison tests.

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

guys, I can't find the yahoo article that said that the government will force chevy to discontinue the camaro in 2011....but I remember it said due to two vehicles on one platform....hopefully i'm wrong or their wrong...but I remember reading that and couldn't believe it....

scottmoyer

Just so the record is set, the new Camaro is so much better in fit and finish that it will compete with any other manufacturer. GM is trying to bring the US automakers into the same arena that the imports have been thought to be for years. American quality has been there, but the media hasn't said a word about it. The new Cadillac, Camaro and G8 are all precision machines with attention to detail being their first priority.

Mark in Maine

Isn't the Fifth Gen Camaro built off a modified Holden platform design from Australia? I don't think the long arm of our government "automotive experts" can reach quite that far . . .

bigals87z28

Goverment didnt make them change a thing. Coming out with a performance car making over 500hp from a rumored supercharged V8 engine while America says that they should be building green cars is what is holding GM back from releasing it.
Goverment also didnt stop ttops. Ttops died with the 4th gen and as much as I love them, Im glad this car didnt keep them. It would look awful wit it, or any other sort of removable top.
Corvette still has targa top, as does the new Solstice coupe.
Camaro starts at 3700lbs. While not light, it has a hell of a lot more equipment standard then any third gen did loaded. 3800lbs for the SS, with 20 inch wheels, massive 14 inch brakes with 4 pistion calipers, 6 standard air bags, IRS, is not that too hard to imagine.
The M3 with a smaller overall size and carbon fiber roof comes in at 3700lbs.

Its just his wishes, but the car will continue and live out its life cycle.

Goverment is not killing any cars. Please give it up.
Camaro shares its chassis design with Holdens VE. Camaro's chassis was redesigned to fit the car. Several things were changed to handle Team Camaro's specifications.

Not GM's fault for dealer price. GM doesnt own the dealer.
GM's quality, along with Ford, has improved greatly over the last 4 years and have either close or surpased the gap of percieved quality with the imports.

They are wrong. Camaro will continue on for its lifecyle.
And yes, the Camaro shares its chassis design with Holden, but its not built on the same platform.

Yes it is. And no, the Goverment cannot kill the Holden car, but they can sure make it a bitch to bring it over to the US, which is the case for the Pontiac G8.
So far, the goverment has not killed any cars, just everyone's knee-jerk reaction to the changing climate to make cars that apparently people want to buy.



As for the *******/meth comments, they are beyond disturbing. This is something that has gone on for way to long now. As someone who grew up in a third gen, I didnt live in trailer. My father didnt have a ******. He didnt do meth. He was an exec at s&l bank in north jersey, and used part of his bonus to buy the car.
I never once lived in a trailer
I never did meth
I dont know of any third gen owners that do meth
Its beyond insulting. There are funny jokes like making fun of ricers, or calling Mustang owners names, but this has gone above and beyond any sort of humor and is now just down right insulting.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

Thank you Bigals87z28 for infusing some facts into this thread. The misinformation was sickening. As for that 2nd link talking about used cars to avoild, the entire article was a waste.

Aside from the Camaro bashing, there were some really useful tips on used car buying... did anyone know that rental cars tend to be beat on???!!! And when young drivers modify their cars to race on the street, did you know they become less reliable and sometimes have harsher suspensions???!!! They really covered some new ground there. I am still mystified by one part though. They tell you to stay away from any cars that don't have all 4 tires matching. When buying a used car, you may run into one that had a tire damaged beyond repair, which was replaced either by itself or as a pair. That hardly means that the car should be immediately eliminated from consideration! What a useless grouping of words.

Iroctopless

I rated the article 1 star and left my opinion at the bottom. I suggest you guys do the same. Only 86 people have rated the article. If only a fraction of us give our "star" rating, we could bring it's rating way down. Just a little opportunity for justice.

gatorcola

Here is my email to them:

RE: 2010 Chevrolet Camaro V-6 - Short Take Road Test
This pony is neither fish nor fowl.
BY MICHAEL AUSTIN, PHOTOGRAPHY BY TOM DREW
March 2009

Gentlemen:

For many years, Car and Driver Magazine exemplified investigative automotive journalism. Regrettably, the referenced article is more in the line of inferior tabloid journalism. In what I assume to be the author’s attempt at pointed humor, he humiliated your publication with his oversimplified, exaggerated, and demeaning characterizations. Frankly, it appears Mr. Austin is unable to make his point of 5th gen superiority without stereotyping a large segment of your readership and alienating those who find his writing in very poor taste.

Sincerely,

Iroctopless

Nice.

I also posted a comment. Do you now how to read all the other comments?

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

bigal...where do you get your infomation from??? Do you have a source??? these just your opinions??? Thats fine but....
>> it is NOT my wishes for the camaro to end in 2011, not in the least bit, I didn't know you could tell what my wishes are. I was stating that I had read that the government, who has a lot of say in what GM is doing right now, said that they will stop production of some vehicles, and change the way GM is operating.
>>I said the camaro shares a basic platform with another vehicle....which looks like to be the holden..so it redisigned a little.... it still shares the basic design with it....that's what I think yahoo news was trying to say...like I said i couldn't find the article I read..but it stated that camaro shares something with another car, and due to the governments new rules that the camaro couldn't be continued....
>>I understand GM doesn't own the dealerships.....but how are you going to buy parts from a dealer, if you don't order them from the dealership?????

I wasn't posting this stuff as fact info....i don't know if any is true or just hear say...I was just stating what I had read somewhere.......

scottmoyer

In response to Bigals87z28, the ttop issue is a government thing. GM isn't settling for anything less than 5 star ratings and the structural integrity of a ttop car won't get the rating. New Roof Crush and Side Impact safety standards would make it VERY difficult. Can't say impossible, but nearly so. The cost to meet the standard would add substantial weight and cost to the car. Those safety standards are issued by the government.

The Z28 issue is again because of politics. You're right about the "green" issue and I didn't go into details, but post-bailout, GM is asking if this is the right thing for their image. Here is a quote, "some inside the company are wondering whether selling a super-fast, super-powerful two-door Chevy coupe that will likely get no better than 13-19 mpg is the right thing to do for a company that's had to beg for money from a bunch of politicians who seem to think it really ought to be building gas-sipping Prius clones"

That is a political issue that the gov't has thrown at GM. The Gov't is saying that they loaned GM money so now be responsible and not build these carbon creating, ozone destroying, global warming vehicles. (Nancy Pelosi)

The gov't has no idea what America wants. They would sell alot of these cars if the banks would start lending again!!!!

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

are you serious? You're just flat out wrong. The burden of proof would be on you when claiming you read some wacky stuff from yahoo news claiming the US government was making GM discontinue the Camaro after 1 year. If true, that kind of news would be on all kinds of message boards that focus on the 5th gen, and what do you know... it isn't. You were either mistaken about what you read or you're referencing a terribly inaccurate source. You didn't state is as fact, but you can contribute to a rumor by posting all kinds of nonsense that you think you read somewhere.

Scott,
It is important to distinguish between GM being persuaded by goverment testing standards and the government stipulating/dictating what GM produces. Maybe t-tops were a casualty of GMs desire to acheive a 5-star safety rating. GM is allowed to make cars with less than 5-star ratings though if they so choose. As stated, GM does produce the corvette and now the solstice with a targa top. They also produce a multitude of convertibles. They even plan to make a Camaro convertible. I don't have any information on why the Camaro team chose not to go with t-tops, but I get the feeling that aestetic reasons came into play. T-tops just don't seem to work with the body style/ roof line of the 5th gen.

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

So now I have someone telling me what I wish, and another telling me what I read...
maybe the news article was wrong...but I know what I read...

Here is an article I found...
"In an effort to return to financial stability, GM will disband its High-Performance Vehicle Operations unit and send those engineers to work on core projects under the Cadillac, Buick, Chevy and Pontiac badges.
In other words, development of high-performance vehicles that are generally low-volume and marketed toward car enthusiasts is now “indefinitely suspended,” according to GM spokesman Vince Muniga.
As it promised in the viability plan it delivered to the Treasury Department, GM will turn its attention to manufacturing fuel-efficient vehicles, promising 14 hybrids by 2012 and 26 by 2014. Naturally, this proposed slimmed-down business model doesn’t leave much room for niche-filling cars like the Chevy Camaro SS. Keep in mind that this pertains only to new development, so models like the Cadillac CTS-V will continue to be sold throughout their life cycle. For the CTS-V, that could easily be three model years.
None of the engineers who worked in the department were laid off."

This is not the one I was talking about...but there are articles out there like this, that someone may distinguish as not good for the new camaro.... the one I read had similar things.....

xbox07

idk where but i remember reading something about GM possibly having to drop the new camaro, something about it sharing the same platform or Gm only able to have a certain amount of every body size like midsize..... fullsize.... ect something like that.

91interceptorZ

iTrader: (3)

thank you......that's the article I read....I thought it was yahoo news...but I can't find the article now...

that's what it was.....only having a certain amount of every body size....

scottmoyer

Well since I'm not doing a good job of typing what I'm thinking and I'm arguing with guys (Jeremy and BigAl) over the same concept that I can't put into words, let's get this back on track for the magazine bashing!

Jeremy, you are correct as is BigAl. I just can't seem to get the right words into type without going into novel mode. This is not a 5th gen forum so back to Car and Driver!!!

Email them and let them know your disgust. Also, has anyone posted these C&D links on other boards here? The more that react and respond, the better chance of having the idiot ousted and the magazine return to it's roots.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

I think the big problem with that article that references the Camaro SS is that it contains editorializing along with actual reporting of news. The Camaro SS is no longer in development, and therefore unaffected by the temporary disbanding of the High-Performance Vehicle group. They would be more accurate if they were to reference the Z28. The Camaro SS, LT and LS are all just as safe as any other vehicle currently produced by GM. If it sells well, they will continue to make it.

That being said, you are right Scott to get back on topic. It is annoying how stereotypes like this are invented and perpetuated. There were plenty of bad hair styles to go around for owners of all vehicles in the 1980s. In that sense, the 3rd gens are a victim of their own popularity. They are symbolic cars of the 1980s. Certain hair styles and clothing are also symbolic of the 1980s. Unfortunately, people throw all their memories in a blender and the Camaro and Firebird are left with ******-juice all over them. So as annoying as it is, just realize in your own mind that people are generally stupid and confuse fiction with reality on a regular basis.

gatorcola

Since this thread is already off on a tangent, here is a news article on the new Convertible & the new Z28:

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2009...NEWS/903239993

and here's another unusual Camaro article:

http://www.automoblog.net/2009/04/14...spired-camaro/

gatorcola

No I don't topless. I tried to read them also and failed. By the way, has it warmed up enough in the tundra for you to get your ride out?

Iroctopless

Snow is gone as of this last Monday. Temps getting warmer. Hope to take her out before the end of this month!
To be Canadian and a vert owner, you gotta be a little nuts!

gatorcola

Il est très humide ici ainsi Southeners sont nuts également !!!!

Dodgeismo

I don't believe my eyes & ears! Are those guys for real? The thought of supposed mature, educated, professional automotive guys basically self bashing,.. (we're all in the same boat here,.. having love and respect for the American automobile!)... actually,....I refuse to resort to their level. Scott, your Camaro is "OUT OF SIGHT"! I just got my project home yesterday, and i'm going to do a somewhat, "copy" build, of your stock award winner. Keep up the good fight. Ismo.

Iroctopless

Sorry, I draw the line with the Ford Granada
Even President Obama declared this as official . . . "“The car I learned to drive on was my grandfather's Ford Granada. … It may be the worst car that Detroit ever built,” . . .

Dodgeismo

The "black rims" does give it a sinister look thoug...ahhh! who am I kidding,..the president was a shmuck (Granada?)...what the hell happened? ..I was talking about gen 3 Camaro's...wait..I know......."Honey!,..wake me up!...i'm having that "ford" forum nightmare againnn!"...

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

On topic, I gotta say I don't help the image. I love driving my firebird with the t-tops off and my cut off t-shirts on blasting Toto, Foreigner, or Boston. It's just fun. I'm so sick of everyone else my age driving Honda's with giant subs wearing giant baseball hats, and blasting T Pain...
At least listen to older, good rap, geeze.

Iroctopless

Back on topic . . .

I just noticed that C&D is only referring to IROC-Z's with T-tops. Is my convertible IROC-Z exempt?
Can I still listen to my beloved Skynyrd CDs (More accurately cassette tapes. Hardly anyone had CD players in there IROC-Z's!) ?

Dodgeismo

Well...I do have an extra set of T-Tops in the back....and a sawzall......WE CAN have a T-Top 2010 Camaro,...any takers???? And oh yeah! I've got an old beer case full of Skynard tapes and my 'ol scissored......

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

C&D recently also became the only magazine to choose the 2010 GT over the 2010 SS. They got slower than average 0-60 times out of it and did not compare 1/4 mile in their video review. In the magazine what made them edge out the GT over the SS? The fact that it never went away and "gotta have it factor." That's pretty funny since the new Camaro is outselling both of it's direct competitors and is the most publicly in demand model in general. Also, they gave more points to the GT's drivetrain, while the SS carries a vastly superior one from front to back. Amazing magazine they are, and biased.

Mark in Maine

Funny, I was just in the "smallest room", reading that very article - I just can't figure out how the Mustang won their comparison - less horsepower, that live axle clonking around under there, it doesn't make much sense, does it? The 2010 Camaro is easily the best car in it's segment; i.e., muscle cars, at doing the job that muscle cars do. I like the Mustang, especially the 2010 improvements, but there's that live axle. And the Challenger is just plain big. They all three look pretty good, but at the end of the day, I think the new Camaro is the car that seems to cause the biggest reaction now that its here - I don't know what C&D's problem is . . .

K-slice

iTrader: (2)

Forget Mustang vs camaro. I just got my newest MotorTrend and they had a compro between the Camaro and Haundai Genesis coupe, AND THE HAUNDAI WON!!! WTF???
The Camaro shlod win on looks alone. Who wants to be seen in a Korean built, lumpy looking, wanna-be sports car?? It's beyond me..

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

Keeping on track with the original thought of this thread:

I kinda disagree with you guys. For the MOST PART, a second gen, thirdgen, and now many fourthgens ARE IN FACT ******* cars. We can disagree all we want, but look no further than our own A&D forum, and you'll find a threads about rattle can and rustoleum paint jobs.

I for one kinda like it. It's cool to hear good old fashion ribbing from people BEFORE they see that car, but then true, honest respect they give you when they actually see the car. Heck, I DO love def leppard, and I DID wear wrestling sneakers while in high school up in North Jersey in the late 80's. That WAS my north jersey Italian, new hair cut jager bomb experience. Now that was almost 20 years ago, and now I consider myself normal, but that's NOT what the majority or Camaro owners are. Most Camaro's ARE beat up and rusted. Not many of them are like ME or the rest of "US" here on Thirdgen. I know my car is just about flawless, and I have nothing but pride. Good ole stereotypes are part of what I like about the car.

Fifth gen? Have they released a fifth generation of F body? A dedicated pony car platform? A GM Camaro/Firebird platform? I hadn't noticed. I DID see a lone Camaro with no Firebird built on a shared frame, but no, I haven't seen a "Fifth gen".

Challenger looks better 8 days a week, anyway.

Dodgeismo

I actually somewhat agree,...I guess... Before I picked up my current '85 Z-28.....I was in the process of ordering a new 2009 Dodge Challenger. They do look great. Like you said, I don't see any 5th gens around either,...these are all NEW platform vehicles for a new muscle car era,..called.."SUPERCARS!"..ya think or?...

Dodgeismo

On another note, the RIBBING thing about "camaro" & "TRANS-AM" typecasting?..**** them! I like the wide variety factor, in that there are guys like you, who have multi thousand dollar pieces of art,..and middle budget, working class stiffs, (you're a working class guy too..right?), but they are at a lower end job/less $$$, and still produce a healthy looking machine. Then...there are the young DREAMERS!, no cash, live at home or a small apt. somewhere and they managed to get hold of a 3rd gen at a cheap price. Now ,..that car ain't gonna look or perform like yours....know where I'm at on this?

scottmoyer

Chris, just an FYI that the Challenger is not on a dedicated pony car platform either. It shares the same underpinnings as the Chrysler 300.

Abubaca

iTrader: (3)

True Scott, but I'm not a Chrysler fan. I look at it strictly from a 100% black and white appearance and performance point of view.

...the Camaro carries an emotional attachment. To me, that new Camaro is a nice car, with good performance and decent looks, and someone at GM dug up a Camaro badge to put on it. It's NOT a CAMARO. Camaro has ALWAYS had a cousin in the Firebird. They both have ALWAYS been a dedicated platform. It's always been a blue collar performance car.

No point in arguing this, because it's my opinion, and it won't change. To me it wreaks of everything that went wrong at GM.

No, no one with a ****** would drive that Camaro. Thankfully. ...in the meantime, me and all my ******ed friends will be hanging out with our 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen camaros. "new" Camaro owners will be hanging out with their Corvette friends.

avro206

lol...the new Camaro is NOT a Camaro