grassyflats

so how 'bout those ttops?
are they glass or plastic?

my SPID says CC1 and my ttops are definitely plastic
so according to this RPO they are factory and not a dealer option
it seems to me I feel I remember the ttops on my old 86 IROC were glass
just because of the feel of the weight
although I could easily be mistaken

L695speed

My 84 has RPO CC1 and they are glass. I know the factory experimented with switching to plastic but because they spider cracked, or didn't seal as good as the glass they went back to glass after a couple years. I've lifted both plastic and glass tops, plastic was a helluva lot lighter, glass looks better.

grassyflats

without a doubt
the spidercrack thang is kinda like
the plastic ttops seem to shatter in the heat
a tint shop I had do the tint said not to tint the tees
cause they will crack-they were designed to disperse the heat
in this way so tint will definitely be working against you
wish I had the glass tees
they had more tint on the edges
some may tell you that if they are plastic
it was a dealership job but that is not true cause
I have the CC1 SPID and plastic tees
and the chances they were replaced
are slim to none with this car
the plastic ones were most likely on the RSs
and the glass ones saved for the Zs
how about firebirds?

84redta

iTrader: (34)

by i think the end of 1990, definably 91 regardless of model, all the t-tops were replaced with the plastic t-tops. In the course of less than three years (3 years, 36,000 mile warranty) people were complaining of leaking, the spider cracks, and wind noise, which all was associated with the fact that the plastic t-tops, while an excellent idea, didn't have the structure to keep it's natural form with the force of locking them in place, which left gaps for air and water to get in. As part of the warranty, anyone that complained within warranty period, ended up getting them replaced with glass, being they were tried and true for the 11 years of existance in the third generation fbody.

grassyflats

now it is definitely time to get into the ttop market
I do not really have a problem with the plastic tees
except the wind starting at 80 mph and
that I would prefer the glass because of the higher quality and fit
so now we have the thread -which ttops fit which year thirdgens?

thank you for the info-it helps clear a question I didnt have until today

camaronewbie

I beleive the later models came stock with plastic (Lexan actually), like 1990+ cars. My 1992 had the plastic and I swapped to glass due to the cracking mentioned. The swap is easy - just have to adjust a bit for wind noise and leakage. Any of the glass tops that have the pins instead of the C&C hooks will swap in, either from Camaro's or Birds - my tops are from a Bird.

The Lexan tops had larger pins than the glass - you might have to get the body-side parts from the donor car like I did. But others have mentioned that the larger pin actually has a plastic sleeve that retracts when installed, so that all the latches have the same diameter hole - I don't remember 'cause it was so long ago. But as long as they have pins instead of hooks, they are interchangeable.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

They started in 89 and I believe 91.5+ got them back.

Here is a thread on it:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...ry-behind.html

CC1 is t-tops, doesn't matter if it is glass or plastic, the early style with a latches or the later pin style, they are all CC1.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I've seen Lexan ttops on cars as early as 1988. As I mentioned in the other thread, glass or plastic could be considered correct, because GM had a ton of recalls and TSB's saying to replace the lexan tops with glass if the customer complained.

I've had both. Personally I liked the Lexan ttops in my V6 Firebird because I could wave them around with one hand without worrying about dropping them, they were dark dark dark since the plastic was dyed, and they didn't leak a drop. For whatever reason the rubber seals better to the plastic then to the glass tops, but the plastic/rubber also squeeks instead of rattles. On a daily driver, I'd rather have lexan just for the convenience of weight, and no sun in my eyes. I had the ttop inserts too, but I never needed them with the plastic tops because they were so dark. The glass tops look better cosmetically, but that's about their only advantage.

grassyflats

thanks G we learn alot here and Drew wow ....copyright!
squeaky and the wind starts blowin in at 80mph ...still no leaks over here except in a hurricane ...thanks again...anyone got any glass tees?

ROBERTDMERRILL

iTrader: (1)

I know on my 1989 TTA the tops were lexan. They were very light and worked very well.

Rob

Guest

The plastic tops are acrylic, not lexan.

grassyflats

doghouse...here we go again
round and round we go where we stop nobody knows

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Madmax is probably right... Lexan is just how they've come to be known around here. If you read the manufacturers stamp on the ttop, it'll tell you what they are. Lexan is just a trademark name. Kind of like how Styro-foam is a trademarked name for expanded bead poly-styrene foam. It's been awhile since I've looked at a plastic ttop but I'm pretty sure they say they're acrylic right on them.

itsMikey

mine are glass :P heavy as hell too..thats why ive dropped one b4 it shattered btw

xcalibur

TIP: Sure hope you folks are (still) using a product called "Sil-Glyde" (available from NAPA), on the rubber body seals that the T-tops contact. You should use it at least twice a year to prevent the squeeking. This will also help preserve the rubber and keep the sun from cracking it. Used it for seven years on my 82's T/A's (glass) T-tops. Never a squeek, rattle or leak. The seals still looked brand new when I traded it on on my '89 Formula 350. You should also use it on the triangular section on the side windows (where the vents used to be), and all the seals where the windows touch the glass.

okfoz

Madmax is correct, they state clearly Acrylic on the tops.

The confusion is the company that made them was "Leximar" so people automatically read Lexan. Lexan is technically a trade name. Originally made by GE, now owned SABIC (Saudi Basic Industries Corp)...

The reason why Drews Acrylic tops do not leak is probably because they are more flexible and conform to the shape of the car better. I have found that they do tend to crack a few inches in from the rear outside edge from the stress of the extra force over time as they tend to be a tighter fit than the Glass tops.

I was going to set up and make replacement acrylic panels, but I could not find the exact tint. Without a special order of material the closest I could find to the correct color was about half as dark... more or less 90% block is what I could find, vs 95% block of the originals...

As far as extra window tinting, it is not recommended because many window tints use vinyls. As it turns out Vinyls are not friendly to Acrylic, and over a period of time the acrylic would craze and eventually crack from the chemicals in the vinyl... Not all vinyl is bad for acrylic, but there are so many kinds that are that its not worth a chance...

Anyone interested in replacement plastic for acrylic tops?

John

MT91Camaro

I own a 91 and if i remember correctly....the original tops were plastic. The previous owner didn't have the driver side latched tight and lost it doing 70 down the interstate. OOPS! When I bought the car, he had got glass ones. They fit nice...but have small scratches.

Glass 1, Plastic 0

PontiacV8

...it is "Lexamar Corp" ....not Leximar.... (...to be a smartass... )

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Which Ttops do I have?

I have a 90 RS, all original as far as I can tell.

The T-tops are dead heavy, sound and feel like glass, and are nearly black.

I've always assumed them to be glass.

One thing I've noticed about my Ttops that I haven't seen on any other cars--mine don't have a piece of edge trim around the sides like all the others I've seen--mine are just pure glass (looks much nicer/cleaner IMO) that rests directly on the weatherstripping.

I found this:

http://www.sunroofdoctor.com/8292f.htm

It appears mine were aftermarket (factory contracted out I assume, cars built as hardtops and then converted to Ttops via a third party before being delivered to the dealer for sale?) by Cars & Concepts.

Does this sound right? I've always wondered why my Ttops looked a bit cleaner than all the others I've seen.

TTA 1387

The glass tops are flat, plastic look like a bubble.

My TTA had the "Lexan" tops and I loved them. Looked great, sealed great, had a darker tint to them than glass. My 84 Z28 had glass and I hated them.

Both of my tops in the TTA were broken in the corners from the body twisting on launch when racing. But they never leaked air or water. Heck I didn't even know they were broken until I pulled them off to clean them. Surprised the crap out of me that both had broken and didn't even know. You couldn't tell at all looking at them installed.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I'm not sure I follow.

Pics showing each?

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It's pretty hard to miss glass vs plastic. The glass ttops have almost a mirror finish on the inside, and no frame on the glass (at least in the later years). Lexan ttops have a plastic framed edge, and no mirrored finish. The handles on both swing 90* toward the T bar to release the tops from the car.

Cars and Concepts Ttops have vinyl trim along the edges of the roof to cover the rough cut edge. The handles are different, and the key locks are different. Probably the easy way to identify them (beyond the C&C logo) is they'll have flat hardtop style sunvisors. All factory Ttop cars have curved sunvisors to match the headliner.

TTA 1387

Here's one of the plastic. They are not flat like the glass tops.

scottmoyer

Some years of glass tops had the edge trim while later years did not. Without doing some digging, I think it was 84 when they changed that.

grassyflats

sounds correct...my X 86 IROC 5.0 had no trim
on the edges of her glass ttops

MT91Camaro

only thing on my tops is the locking mechanism and hardware for the side pillars. no trim on the glass elsewhere.

okfoz

My 83 Parts car had the trim IIRC...

John

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

My 1992 Formula has glass T-tops. As did all my other cars including my 1987 Trans Ams and my 1985 Trans Am. There was no trim outside the hardware on the outer edge for the locking mechanism on any of them.

I've seen the acrylic ones and frankly they are ugly. They bulge in the middle creating a dome effect and they crack easily. They also scratch relatively easily from what I've seen. I much prefer the glass ones. Also, I've always heard that the acrylic ones don't seal as well and are more prone to leaking.

okfoz

Because Acrylic is not nearly as stiff as Glass, they put the dome in it to make it stiffer. It also goes for the front and back edges of the acrylic, the additional pieces are for stiffness...

They also make the top seal down harder than the glass ones, probably to keep them from leaking.

John

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

There were many variations in glass t-tops over the years. In addition to some having plastic trim around the edges while others didn't, there were also glass t-tops that did and didn't have a mirror-like surface on the inside. I believe the earlier ones had the mirror finish and the later ones didnt, but I am not certain and couldn't say when the change was made. Also, the glass t-tops in 1982 had a hook-style mechanism which I'm pretty sure was carried over from the 2nd gens rather than the pin style.

It'd be great to see a comprehensive posting showing all variations in the t-tops over the years with accurate breakdowns of years (with pictures and text). I know some of the information, but not nearly all of it.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Early T-tops, and all the variations therein were not relevant to the discussion at hand. The question was how to tell the difference between glass & plastic, which would mean 88-92. The secondary question was how to identify C&C T-tops vs the factory T-tops, which can be done simply by the latches, and markings. To include more info then necessary clouds the issue and leaves room for confusion.

There were a ton of changes from year to year, but does it really matter?

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

The 1991-1992 T-tops had the hard plastic trim instead of the rubber. I don't believe my 1992 T-tops have the mirror like finish but the ones I pulled from a 1985 car did.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It's not just the drip rail that changed, the entire design of the weatherstripping was revised. If you dig into the technical service bullitins, there are several on the subject of revised weatherstripping intended to stop leaks. The plastic drip rails instead of the earlier rubber were part of that change. The TSB's aren't very clear about when that happened. They're dated, but model year and production date aren't the same thing. Sometime in 1990 is when they were changed.

In general when replacing t-tops, the best bet is to use as close to the same year donors as the car, or the weatherstripping probably won't match.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

What I said was relevant because you stated that glass t-tops have a mirrored surface on the bottom and acrylic ones don't. That isn't entirely true since there are glass t-tops with and without a mirrored surface.

Regarding staying on the exact topic of the thread, I think it's pretty clear that the original question was answered pretty early on in the thread. I was attempting to make the additional information in the thread as accurate as possible for those that find this thread in a search in the future.

Brock Lee

My 91 has factory plastic tops. It has zero leaking problems, but the plastc has those superficial cracks that create silvery lines in the plastic. There is also a sort of clear coat that is oxidizing on the surface. I will switch to glass someday when I find a good looking set that fits.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Take the comments into context. Since the question I was answering was how to identify glass vs plastic, the only years that are relevant are 88-up t-tops. Early glass t-tops with hook latches and frames around the glass aren't relevant in that context since a 1983 isn't generally going to have plastic t-tops anyway.

As far as future readers getting confused reading the thread, they too need to consider the context and how the information applies. If I were to expound on every potential variation of these cars every time I post a reply, it'd be time consuming, and only be more confusing.

I've yet to see a set of later OEM glass t-tops that don't have the interior surface mirrored. Not to say they don't exist, but I don't recall ever seeing that variation. Which year(s) had the tops you're referring to?

MT91Camaro

I have a 91. Pin style latch, not sure about mirrored surface. Mirrored so nobody can see in, or you just see the inside of the car when you look up?

If its the former, then yes mine are mirrored.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

I don't get what your problem is. I can add to any thead I wish as long as I follow board rules. I also was under the impression that earlier cars had a mirrored inside surface and the later cars just appear to be heavily tinted from the inside (Just as I said in my first post). Whichever way the breakdown goes, the fact that both styles existed is relevant in the year 2010. T-tops can be swapped from one car to another in 2 minutes and these cars are older than a good number of members on this site.

So I ask you, what is your problem with me posting in this thread? I was polite and didn't say anything disrespectful to or about you, so let it go.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I think the mirrored tint on the inside is to more or less make the glass one way. Seems to work pretty good as its hard to see in but you can see out OK. My 1992 Formula's T-tops on the other hand are just very darkly tinted and seems to accomplish the same thing. I can see out easily but not in.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I don't have any problem with you posting in this thread or any other. You quoted my reply and implied I'm incorrect. It wouldn't be the first time I've missed a detail, but I've yet to see any evidence to back up your statement. All I'm asking is that you provide that evidence. Don't make it personal, cause it's not. Just make your case.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

It is true that the point of this thread is plastic vs. glass T-tops. I don't see anythign wrong with expanding on that to include discussion of other variations of the T-top design/hardware. It does vary from year to year and someone who is looking to buy additional sets for their cars need to be aware of the differences between them.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

I quickly scanned and did not see someone talking about this, but which are stronger in the end? I have a plastic and glass t-top on my Camaro and have not decided which to get to have the good pair. The glass one I have is very clean and good cosmetic wise and the glass has its flaws. Right now its up to me worrying that I might leave it outside and to break into the car just pop the glass t-top and off you go. Should I worry or what.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

A thread like that would be great... It'd be even better as it's own thread. To do it right a person needs to have access to multiple cars, and multiple ttops, and a decent camera to document the differences. The tops would have to be photographed from the same angles, in the same lighting, in detail to really show the differences. There are at least three different websites selling weatherstripping, or used t-tops, that have pictures and info on several of the variations, but they aren't complete. They cover most of the differences but not all. It'd be a PITA to do, and most people wouldn't care anyway.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

If you're worried about someone breaking the glass t-top and stealing the car, you don't need to worry since it's just as easy for someone to break any other glass in the car and gain entrance. T-top locks prevent people from removing the tops without a door key.

The plastic tops can be broken just as easily, they just don't shatter like normal safety glass. If they're dropped or blow out they're just as likely to break.

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Well If I was a smart robber I would break the t-top since it would be the least suspicious thing to do. Thanks for the info, guess I know what to get!

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I can't help out at all for 1982-1984 cars, but I have had multiple 87's and one 85 car. Their tops were the same. I've still got t-tops from an 85 car and I've got the t-tops from my 1992 car. I'm willing to work on a separate thread for that if others want to as well.

grassyflats

where is that thread about changing the plastic pin receivers?
going from acrylic to glass t-tops...i did not see it on the search
the pins are obviously larger in the glass ttops

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The part of the pin that actually matters isn't that much different. The large plastic part of the pin doesn't engage anything. If they still won't latch and you need to adjust the mounts, remove the pillar trim and the mount is a round piece with two screws. If you remove the screws you can change the mounts. If you just loosen them you can move the mounts to adjust how tight/loose the tops fit. Setting them too tight will just kill the weatherstripping faster, so they need to be snug not too tight.

grassyflats

finally found the five minutes it took to install the glass
wow what a difference...go glass

1986iroc350

iTrader: (1)

GLASS!!