Linson

i love the sights, sounds, smells, and feelings, i get from American Muscle Cars - old, new, and forever in-between like our 3rd gens. money is a means to that end - not the end itself.

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

That car is sweet! worth every cent

86blackiroc

iTrader: (12)

Yeah, that guy in Dayton. It really frustrates me to see the NICE cars he has taken apart. I understand it's helping other cars live, but they appear to be cars with nothing wrong with them.

I'll admit, I've parted out several cars and only a couple were not really salvageable. I'll never do it again though since I've seen so many others doing it at an alarming rate.

cerberus

I think its a natural desire for us to keep sight of normal by judging how much money we spend on them vs how much they will sell for, I also, as humans, have a natural desire to receive affirmation and acceptance by our peers on our hobbies. It keeps us grounded. Otherwise I may end up as the nut job with huge piles of cars in my yard, a gray beard and a funny farm for my retirement. I could easily get lost in this restoration world but my wife and children keep me grounded and our income flowing in the right direction. I have in the past put way too much of my income in cars and ended up cash poor and car rich, car rich doesnt pay bills but I sure thought I looked cool at car shows (NOT). As a normal human we all want acceptance and normality. its human nature. Its healthy. I am not in to flipping cars for profit I do like to know that my hard work could pay off or will pay off as I sell to get money to buy something more rare or fun.

AGREED

I think this will change in due time. We are lucky enough to have a love for the one generation of camaro they made the most of. Wish I had huge shop and a billion dollars.

coolram62

iTrader: (2)

Linson the show you're referring to is "Wheeler Dealer". It's BBC2 show that Velocity added to their new lineup. I can't think of the guy's name that does the purchasing but he sells cars for a living. They just started coming to the US to purchase cars to turn around in England. They do have the right idea in they deal with classic ,or near classic cars, in getting them good homes. Along the way they offer good advise and even test drive a fully restored example of the vehicle of the week.

I agree with you in I have no intentions of selling my '83. The same can be said for my Dad's '73 CST C10 (along with the sentimental reasons). I had to sell once with my '70 Monte Carlo SS due to health and it really hurt to see her go. It does make for interesting discussion to speculate what 3rd Gens are and might be worth in the future (or in the course of purchasing one). To me the importance of monetary value is to make sure she's insured properly. It would be nice to have the money and room to have more than one. The RS of the OP would be a model you could really have fun with more often than a hard to replace original Z28 or T/A.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Today's thought, which will probably change tomorrow:

The cars will cap at around $20k + future inflation, for a low mileage original, special models excepted. As I mentioned before, the sheer number of low mileage originals out there will continue/forever suppress the values of cars like mine or others. Additionally though, the low mileage cars will suppress the values of each other, because there are tons of them out there to choose from; I can go on Autotrader and do a nationwide search and there is no shortage of low mileage IROCs that are original. I can sit around and wait for a red/black '90 IROC 5.7 DX3 to show up, and within a few months, it will. Even saw that car in 'vert/5.0/T5 form a couple different times out of California with 30k. I can wait to the point where I could almost take my pick, or just wait for the ideal one to come along. They aren't so few that your choices are limited, and these low mileage cars aren't going anywhere. Thus because everybody is holding these cars expecting to cash in like muscle car era #1, the cars have a very real value ceiling that will persist. Nobody will pay $50k for a 5.7 IROC because they simply will never be rare enough to warrant that value, as long as everyone is keeping their low mileage cars in the garage. And as long as those cars are around which they likely always will be, any "lesser" car can forget being worth much. In contrast, I can't sit around all day waiting for a black/black/black vinyl top '68 Charger R/T with a 440/4 speed and matching numbers to show up. I've been looking for years and have never seen one that was a true, original triple black car. Forget about an original one, it's be worth well into the six figures if such car were to exist. A rotten one in a field that's complete yet needing all new metal underneath and even with rotten frame rails would still bring $20k. An auto version of that car brought high teens not long ago. I don't have the choice like I do with a thirdgen, so if I see one I'll pay an arm and a leg for it because I realize the rarity of the opportunity. A red '90 DX3 IROC will come up again so there's no need to drive up the price.

The cars will never be worthless and will cease to sink in value, but a car like mine will likely never top $10k + inflation.

There are simply too many people holding onto originals. Truth is, the more originals there are, the less our cars are worth as a whole due to value suppression.

bitchin_buick

AGREED: If we knew the answer to when then maybe we would be playing the lotto... If it's not enjoyable it's a chore, not a hobby! If your that frustrated sell and move on already!(not pointed toward the Adm.,Referring to others)

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Good thing you cleared that up. I had the Banned button out and ready to go. (Just kidding LOL)

What you said is true. IMO, people think too much about it. It's nice to know that somethings value is increasing but I don't really care about prices because I don't want to sell. On the other side, I think that them getting higher keeps people from being able to get what they want sometimes. There's not much that can be done about it though.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yep, I guess if you feel the need to manage your 3rd gens in the same way that you manage your investment portfolio, then you probably need to find a new hobby.

jtsk

iTrader: (3)

Nowadays you see far more 69 z28's than GM ever made, will it one day be that way for say an 85 IROC????

cerberus

I am sick to death of seeing that!

TRIBUTE or clone cars! I really dont like them

cerberus

You know your car is becoming collectible when a NOS leather shifter *** sells on ebay for 122!

Jason E

I paid $99 for the NOS leather shift **** in my Trans Am, and capped off perfectly the light interior freshening it needed. A re-wrapped (PROPERLY DONE, not some DIY kit) leather wheel, NOS shift ****, nice used center console and some matching black Lloyds front floormats with the phoenix embroidered in them was all it took to make the inside look almost brand-new.

Its often the finishing touches that make the best improvement to an interior.

onebadass88

i am redoing my fisrt car now. well i have a guy doing the body and stuff now. i have a 1988 Camaro. just a plain old camaro. is doesnt have RS, IROC,OR Z28 badges on it is was just a Camaro with the 2.8v6. nothing special but now its in the works of a hot street car. im putting in a 632 BBC in it 400 trans 9in rear end. it is painted 2011 Camaro Synergy Green with Pearl White racing stripes. the body isnt finished but it is coming along nicely. ill add a picture. but i love this car i will NEVER get out of it what im putting in it money wise but i dont care i love this car and will never get rid of it.

ALSO i am new to this forum so just stopping bye and also saying hi to some fellow 3rd gen fans!!

cerberus

Thats awesome, it should make the ground rumble!

onebadass88

yeah for sure it has a big roller cam and soem real nice stuff in it it will be a decent engine. i got a set of custom headers being made too. 2 3/8" primary tubes with 4.5" collectors that are going to have dual 4.5" exhaust with the dynomax race bullets. its is all solid mounted and everything so yeah it should for sure rumble im excited to just see it i cant wait to get the heck out of Iraq and see my car

jtsk

iTrader: (3)

onebadass88 - awesome car! Me likey!

onebadass88

thank you very much it is going to be a while before it is DONE but its ok. i only have about a month to work on it when i get home this year and then im going back to Afghanistan so i wont have time for a while to work on it. but eventually it will be done and ill put up more pictures when i do finish it

onebadass88

jtsk ill be heading down your way in Feb to pick up my engine. well not real close i dont think the engine is in Murfreesboro we are also going to be moving down there too so maybe you will see me out cruisin in it

jtsk

iTrader: (3)

onebadass88 - Murfreesboro is like in the middle of the state about 4 hours away. It would be cool to see it. Who knows, maybe one day.... my ambition is to leave Memphis for good one day...

onebadass88

yeah i feel the same way about Michigan. i LOVE michigan but its time for me to do something different. i work for the Military so im going to go down to Ft Campbell down there

Motown

Sounds like you need to post pics of this fresh interior!

blackdoutgta5.7

iTrader: (1)

I beg to differ about scarcity it depends on what model IE 1le cars some years they only made 25 or less, 86 iroc 350 tpi test cars 50 were made not to mention TTA's and my 89 gta only 816 were made in black with leather 5.7 etc one just sold for $13,000 on ebay like mine. so some are worth money but like all cars it's the rare one's that fetch money.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

The 50 rumored 86 L98 IROC-Zs never hit the streets, they were just test cars that got destroyed. They can be seen in magazine reviews before the 87 350s were released or in our MotorWeek clip in the Media section. Also, it isn't just rareity that makes value. Other things that often make value are first and lasts, combinations that are/were desirable, or cars that were considered top models in their time. You can usually bank on those things. Desire sometimes plays a bigger part than rareity.

cerberus

Funny thing a guy on the nastyZ forum posted pics of one he found and I think he bought.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

He doesn't have a factory 86 350 TPI IROC-Z, there's never ever been a documented one and even GM said they were destroyed. So send him here with pictures of the car and the RPO codes so we can debunk him LOL. It would have to have no A/C, no T-Tops, and probably no VIN to be one, and a car without a VIN isn't sellable.

Sick92

Perhaps our cars will be worth more when people start fixing them correctly lol. It hurts me internally every time I see someone hook a "switch" to their fans...
Not saying every 1st gen was taken care of and that's why they are great, but if a community held their cars to a high standpoint, perhaps everyone would follow suit.

Problem there is, our cars are cheap and basic economics states high demand and low supply = higher price.

Wait another 5-10 years, and we'll have to figure a way to count up the remaining cars here in this forum.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Cars are not an investment. Thirdgens were originally intended as throw-away cars, like everything else that came from Detroit in the 80's .When I bought my first 1983 Trans AM WS7 with a Cross-Fire and a stick shift brand new with 3 miles showing in September 1982 I was very proud of the car. A few weeks later I was extremely disapointed when the owner of the dealership where I bought the car told me that I would be lucky if the car lasted 5 years. I typically keep a DD for 10 to 12 years.The fact that the cars were built as cheaply as possible, were made in mass quanities, and just about everyone owned one, predisposes our mentality that the cars are disposable. The car that I own now evokes a completely different set of feelings from me and just about everyone who sees her. The car is not a rare model, however it attracts a crowd everywhere it goes. It does not see daylight very often as we have turned her into a trailer queen, and she lives in an environmentally controlled race car trailer. The car has a valid plate, inspection, and insurance, so that every once in a while I get the urge to drive it some, and do drive it on special occations. The car is a 1986 WS6Trans AM T-top, with a 305 TPI, and a 700R4 in bright blue and silver. The only opitions on the car that are slightly unusual for an 86are the PW7 Cross-Laced wheels, and the Pontiac Performance Sound system. Even though the car is a run of the mill TA, I feel the need to preserve it in pristine stock condition. I do not consider myself as the owner of the car, but merely it's steward until it is old enough to be considered valuable enough so that its continued preservation is seen as important by most reasonable people. What does set the car apart from the average 86 TA is that the car is mostly original and all stock with 29,600 actual miles on it. The original owner was Amanda Crowe, a famous Native American artist and teacher at the tribal high school. MS. Crowe taught traditional native art to many thousands of people over the years. Her works are in the Smithosonian in DC and currently on tour accross the US and Europe.Amanda owned the car from 1986 until her death in 2004. She used the car as her Sunday afternoon cruiser. After she passed her family sold off her belongings and my wife bought the car for my 50th birthday. Since the car was a fixture on the Cherokee Indian Reservation for 18 years many of the tribal members have fond memories of the car and its original owner. The history of the car does not make it valuable, however many people feel that they have a stake in the car's history. Back in the 80's the high school boys on the rez used to drool over car when Amanda drove it to work on rare occations. At that time not many Indians who could afford such a car, so it was special. The median income for a Cherokee family in those days was 5K per year. As for the RS's with the V6 engines, those are the cars to build street rods with. I had the chance a few years back to purchase a 91 RS, V6, auto, solid black, T-top with the OEM ground effects all intact for $300.00 and it would drive home. The car had zero rust, and was pretty straight. It had suffered a nose bleed sometime in the past, and someone had replaced the hood, fenders, and front bumper, however the car looked and drove straight as an arrow. My plans were to built a carbed 383, with a 700R4, install a 9 bolt posi with disc brakes, and have one hot old marrow to play with. Money was tight as always, the the wife stood her ground. "You don't need another car." She was right off course, but I still regret not getting it.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

http://nc-cherokee.com/theonefeather...E2%80%99s-car/

89ROC-Z

iTrader: (7)

Hope this is sort of on topic....

For the past few years i've been going to a yard near me with 13 third gen camaros' a birds'....went there this morning and ALL of them have been crushed! This sucks cause i always went and picked parts off and sold them online.

It'll be a while before these cars have a value to a scrap yard

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Agreed that cars are not an investment except for rare cases. But to say that 3rds were intended as throw-away cars?! You act as if GM just threw them together in a few days and got them out to sell just because they needed the money. They were made in mass quantities because they were a hit. All car companies had to cut costs back then, but about the only thing that was done pretty cheaply in these cars was the interior plastics. Our cars started getting designed in the late 70s and years of thought went into them. Not only for maximum handling, but for aerodynamics, modern tech, and better fit and finish than the Camaros that came before them. All of that was achieved and they wrapped them in bodies that made them look almost futuristic compared to everything else in their day. They reduced size/weight and practically built these cars in wind tunnels. They raked the windshield more than anything before and the hatch glass alone was one of the most advanced pieces of auto glass ever put into a car at that point. They were dealing with new chassis dynamics, new engines, and new transmissions. Alot of detail went into many things as you can read in some books, I can't list it all here. People might want to mention paint issues, but that was mostly the Van Nuys cars with the regulated paint. Couldn't do much about that, Norwood had great paint quality.

The cars you mention are early Thirds which weren't as well built as the later models. It took a few years to iron out some of the quirks of those cars, but by the mid 80s alot of the issues had been addressed. It didn't stop many of them from being driven hard and lasting though, which I witnessed myself. In my experience, they've proven to be good and reliable cars that don't break the bank when something does go wrong, unlike the cars of today. They also were not as cheap as some might think. People like SM and I have loaded L98 IROC-Zs that stickered around $21,000. Adjusted for inflation using 1987 money, that is a $41,820 car today, and people complain about $36,000 for a 2010 SS! Just for example, the average age of an IROC-Z buyer in general was 33, 50% of them were married, white collared, and had an income in the $50,000 range. (a $100,000 salary today) The original owners of my car fit into that mold exactly. These are not the stats of some cheap throw-away car, but the stats of a top car of it's time that had real value.

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

In 1983, I was 27, married, a professional. I was the typical thirdgen buyer. I love my thirdgens, and have owned four of them. They were however considered throw-aways when they were built, buy the people who built them and the people who sold them. Almost everything made in the early 80's was in that catagory.It was us owners who made more out of them than was intended by the designers, builders, and retailers. The cars have demonstrated durability over time, but compared to the fit and finish of the cars of the 60's they were unreliable electronic plastic turds. You are correct about the later thirdgens. They did work most of the bugs out of the cars. As for my personal opinion the cars are the perfect platform for a modern street rod.

J91

It is one hell of a format to build on, funny how things like 3 links are all the rage now. I've always loved them because they handle at speed, w/ a few suspension mods they to get rid of flex they become serious enough for competiton. I'm an old school rodder, but was always dissatified w/ handling characteristics of typical street machine until I got my first Iroc in 03. Not to mention they've got fine lines...

Brock Lee

+1

Or cut a hole in the hatch to replace a fuel pump.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

Again, there were issues in the early 80s that did not reflect on the later models, that doesn't classify them as throw-aways. Most cars have problems when they first come out. Things like EFI, overdrive transmissions, and computers were all introduced in Camaros for the first time in the early Third Gen. On top of that there were new paint processes. They were selling in ridiculous amounts and things were often rushed. I know people who ordered them new and waited months on back order for their cars. I don't recall salespeople being down on them, they did make alot of money off of them in those days LOL. As for if the builders cared or not, you might want to talk to LeonardS about that. I also have to disagree on not comparing to 1st Gen quality. Unlike Thirds, they had many already proven engines, transmissions, rear axles, etc., and still had their own issues. The paint and chassis did not last long on the 60s cars, many started rusting within 5 years time. I'd also take 3rd Gen seating and leather over 1st Gen vinyl anyday. They did have better chassis rigidity though. It's not easy to compare such simple cars to our more "complex" models. Cars often reflect their time and today they are held to much higher standards than 80s or 60s cars were, so they might seem less "put together." I'd say once things were worked out, both were good for their day.