mr396

Anybody restoring an 89 formy and need a model? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-...item2eba09002f

cerberus

I am in love! Formula 350 rock!

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

If that was black with TTOPs It wouldbe MINE!!!!!
super nice car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Damn that's nice. Still not crazy about the bumperettes, but it's nice to see a well cared for original.

mr396

The engine bay.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It's too bad someone went crazy with the dressing. Before the car was detailed the entire intake duct would have been coated in the greenish/gray stuff. Look at the bottom of the ducting just behind the radiator cap, that's how the entire rubber ducting should look if it's never been detailed.

Yes, I'm nit picking.

Jason E

Wow...simply gorgeous. I wish I could buy that car. Its too bad a dealer got hold of it...it seems like classic car dealers price them way higher than private sales, and sometimes I've seen them sit on the same car for YEARS...I don't understand how some of them stay in business.

At a "normal" dealership, its all about turning inventory for a modest profit and moving on...not watching your investment rot. I'm willing to bet that dealership found that car locally or at an auction for $14k, tops. I know at the one I go to, its not uncommon to find TTAs with under 40k miles in the 13-14k range.

Regardless, that car is gorgeous, and worth some serious coin.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I agree on the tire shine on everything, waaay 2 much in use here. Im not really a fan of it at all. I like a clean rubber look and not a shiny plastic looking part..
Quite a few good detail shots for restoration use tho.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

That dealer has afew really nice, low miles, 3rd gens. And he's asking ALOT for all of them. The others have been for sale for a long, long, long time......

Anti-Venom

Personally I couldn't own a car like that. I would have a sense of guilt every time I drove it. Followed by an hour on a lift detailing it after every short trip. I would get a serious case of OCD.

84beaut

iTrader: (2)

Exactly what I think. Haha. I wouldn't even drive it. Just detail it every day before and after work. I already have OCD like that, imagine what I do everyday with the old bird just in primer and always dirty. I go crazy.

TTA 1387

You get over that eventually. As long as you don't drive it in the rain, it'll stay clean for the most part. Once a year is all it takes to clean the underside of the car.

If I had it to do all over again, I'd still buy a low mileage car. They are just so much better than one that has miles on it. A lot less you have to do to it to clean it up.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Thats Y I like the black formys, the bumperettes just fade away.......

I may just go look at the car myself....

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I wonder if he would take sticker price? LOL

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

If I had the cash, I'd say 15k ish is a good number..

Anti-Venom

Call me crazy but I actually think 20k is a fair price for a car that clean as long as all the seals are gone through and there's no leaks from sitting. Not saying I wouldn't rather only pay 15k though.

Even If I could drive it and live with myself, I couldn't mod the car w/o feeling like I just angered the Pontiac god's in some way by desecrating a pristinely, stock car.

I do wish I would have originally started with a cleaner car though. Mine unfortunately looked a lot better in the fleabay pics than it did in person.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

20K is fair but Im a cheap azz!

It is veeery clean.
Ive seen cars with less miles and a worse looking bottom side sell for more...

cerberus

SOmething else about these cars with ultra low miles that may have sat for awhile is that the seals dry up. I think it has to do with the amount of time they sit. I think mine sat for to long of a time as I have a few seal that leak or weep, I am thinking of using auto RX seal conditioner. Some of these cars have the seals moistened every year while others may go for many years.


BUT VERY TRUE!

After 27 years and 30K miles mine still the rubber dust, I think its talc.

By scotiapilot at 2011-12-06

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

You read my mind. At that mileage level, it would almost be a sin to drive it even 100 miles per year. Unless I was a museum or had a large car collection, I'd pass on this, as beautiful as it is. Personally, I'd prefer a very well kept car in the 25,000 -50,000 mile range. Costs a lot less, and you can put a few thousand miles on it without guilt.

cerberus

I just put 900 miles on mine and I have big time guilt.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

And that's why I've put almost a thousand miles on my RS convertible in the last 10 years. Every time I tag it, and tell myself I'm going to drive it, I chicken out and it only gets driven a few times before the tags expire.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

That is the problem with having the super low milers. It's not easy putting up with the guilt of enjoying them, as crazy as that sounds LOL. I feel that way alot even though my car is in the 70,000s, you don't want to get to 100,000 miles!

KMK454

I guess I'm guilty of thirdgen sacrilege... one year ago my car had 12k miles on it. I drove it 1k miles to its new home; that was a great drive and a great memory. Then I moved and drove it 500 miles. Then I took it to the f-body gathering, another 700 miles. 13 months after purchasing, it has 18,000 miles on it. Now I only drive it on sunny Fridays or the weekend, so the mileage has really slowed down since then.

Thirdgens were my dream car; I sold a 2008 Z06 to pursue one. The goal was to come as close as possible to buying a new thirdgen 20 years after they quit production. This meant a search for the low-mile survivor. I'd say I was successful.

A well cared for and preserved car can easily mask its mileage. I purchased my 78 Silverado 5 years ago with 18,000 miles on it. Currently, it has 36,800 miles... and that includes rain and cold weather. I'd say it looks about the same as when I bought it save for some rock chips, but it runs better thanks to more constant use and repair of wear items. It's my daily driver.

18k miles:


Five years later - 36k miles:


Together - pre-bailout survivor GM cars for the win:


Now if you're buying as an investment, then mileage still matters on thirdgens. However, you're investing in the wrong field, because cars are terrible investments. If you are buying to own long term and don't want to sell anytime soon, I'd suggest buying a low-mile car.

Somebody needs to buy the Formula in the first post, properly preserve it, and drive it! But $12-20k is a more appropriate price range...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Very nice!!

Jason E

I had the same goal when I bought my 3. While I did have to do a little bit of cosmetic work to my 86 (if you can call a paint job "little" ), I knew the desired outcome would be amazingly like new...and it was.

My IROC is just like your RS...absolutely, pristinely 100% perfect. Its like a brand-new 88 IROC. Isn't it nice having something perfect to enjoy so many years after it was built?? I wish my 88 TA was as perfect...its close, and has only 5,000 miles more on it. Alas, it does not have the new-car smell and absolutely flawless paint of the IROC. Close, but not quite.

In my mind, nothing beats a low-mileage example of a third gen. Tight, shiny and rattle-free...for the most part

Dusk2600

I Love That truck, love those style!

Carlos773

iTrader: (3)

Ha seen that car on local craigslist. Looks like a nice formula.

Color name is flame red metallic? Looks very close to the repaint my 86 got. Anyone know the rpo for it?

Jason E

A friend of mine sent an offer in of $16,000 through eBay...the seller denied it. I thought it was damn fair...

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

That's a bit low-ball IMO. We are talking 2,400 miles, not 24,000.

Jason E

Being a Formula, not an IROC or GTA, I thought he was spot on. I mean, what do you think a Formula would be worth??

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I'd say 15-20K ish. Maybe maaaaybe a bit more.. I'm a formy guy sooo I have a soft spot 4 this car..

I think the prob is this car is at a dealership and he prolly lowballed the owner now wants to make a huge profit..
Oooor over paid and needs to over charge to cover it all..

cerberus

Jason poses an interesting question. As our cars age we will see values adjust, rest assured they wont be going down, only up

Anti-Venom

Wasn't that close to what they where MSRP in 1989? That's like saying gee thanks for keeping the car mint for 23 years. Here's what it cost new 23 years ago!

Keep in mind the 350 Formula's where lower production sleepers purposely built for their pwr/weight advantage. They made far fewer of them than the GTA's or IROCS. Rarer than most coveted Vette's in '89 for that matter.

Of course I'm a Formy guy also and am also a little biased towards them.

burnout88

Back in 89 I watched a brand new stock Forumla 350 run a 13.86 in the quarter mile. It had the twin cat option on it. Other then that it was a very stripped down car.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Thats honkin'!
With stock tires i got mine to 14.10 ish @ gateway...

58mark

iTrader: (3)

the original sticker is in one of the photos. it's just a few hundred more than that

Anti-Venom

Ah, couldn't see it from the tiny screen on my bbly.

That is gettin it. Mine must be a pooch. Best of 13.9 with 1.9 60' with headers and DR's.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I'd expect a Formula 350 to run a bit higher than the average Iroc, or Trans Am. I'd put them right there next to a fully loaded GTA or high end Iroc/Z28. Because, as pointed out the Formula was THE hot ticket. It's still a bit of a hidden treasure, even in our enthusiast community. They're just no nonsense, kick-*** cars. There are plenty with boring 305s, but the 350 versions are usually loaded with all the go-fast goodies.

cerberus

I am with you, what do you consider a high end IROC? Id like to know as it pertains to my car.

burnout88

I am pretty sure the car had no a/c and crank windows. It was at Union Grove WI on a cool evening. Temp outside was only 45 degrees and a nice dry air. Perfect to a run some fast times. I was blown away when I saw it. The car really was moving out!!

Linson

good question. i'm a little confused myself, unless by "high end IROC" he means '5.7 equiped.' over an IROC, the Formula would probably have a slight aerodynamic advantage, and maybe a slight air intake disadvantage. the curb weight on my Formula 350 is about 3300 lbs. not sure if the IROC is any heavier or pretty much the same. over a GTA, i would expect the Formula 350 to have a slight, but measurable weight advantage that would enable them to consistently outrun GTAs.

whatever your preference, i think that these are all basically the same car in a mechanical and performance sense. personally, i prefer the Formula 350s for having IMO, the sleekest and sexiest looks out of the three.

cerberus

Drew is a smart sob, I value his opinion on what he considers high end. For my 85 with nearly everything perfect and 30k miles I sure want his pov on the situation

Linson

my 89 Formula 350 and sworn enemy 89 5.0 LX have virtually the same front bumerettes.

Linson

yeah, i never said he aint. i'm just saying that outside of either having a 5.0 liter or a 5.7 liter, i dont know what would set one stock IROC apart from another stock IROC - performance wise. dual cats, maybe? i thought that was your question as well.

performance wise, as IROCS go, since yours is an 85, it is not likely going to fall in the high end category of factory performace, since it does not come with a factory 5.7 liter engine. definitely, yours is very high end as far as quality and condition, but obviously, in a 1/4 mile, any 89-ish 5.7 liter IROC is going to walk on it - stock for stock.

cerberus

well yeah apples to apples and history, mid season cars in collector venues seem to graduate least in value. 1st of's, and end of's are getting the highest values, 1st convert. 1st iroc, 1st year 350, 1st 1le last of the gen 3, last year iroc, last 1le etc. I picked the 85 as its the 1st year iroc. yup others are faster but im not certain thats the point. The only thing I would ever race would be another 84-85 stock gt or lx at a track or muscle car challenge.
Collectors who pay big bucks want a story, provenance, and some sort of benchmark/hallmark the car made in history.

Jason E

I don't disagree with what you said, but still...its not worth as much, or more than, a comparable condition/mileage IROC or TA/GTA. It just isn't. Don't get me wrong...I'm not a Formula hater by any stretch. As a matter of fact, I love them and have always loved what they represent. If I am lucky enough to buy another third gen, I've already decided it will be a Formula 350.

But I cannot see spending TTA money for a Formula 350, even with 2,400 miles on it. It just doesn't make sense. TTA money in some ways is hard enough to swallow as it is. I was looking at $15k TTAs with 40-50k on them...so when I stumbled across my sub-$7k, 26k mile LB9/5 speed/WS6/t-top TA, it seemed like too good a deal to pass up.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I too would say that it would be worth more than the GTA, as it was the lightest and fastest of the trim levels. All business. Don't see many/any of them around.

Not to mention you'd still be losing money after factoring in inflation.

______

The appeal of this car is the fact that you don't see many of them in this kind of condition; beyond that you see almost no thirdgens with that low of mileage on them, so this is quite special in an Autotrader sea of 20k-30k mile originals. This is a very desirable car IMO. I think the asking price is right on, and I wouldn't feel the least bit ripped off paying that price.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

RE: High end Irocs/Z28s.

From 85-87 Irocz meant something. It was an upgrade on the Z28, but by 88 all Z28s were automatically Irocs, and the 16" wheels became optional, making the package little more then a sticker/paint package.

For 85-86 the 305 was as high end as it gets. I'd consider a L69 5spd or LB9 with good gears to be high end for 85. In 86 they were all slow, sorry but that's just the way it is. Poor gearing and peanut cams made 86 LB9s slow as hell.

87-90 I'd consider an Iroc with 16" wheels, LB9/5spd, or L98, PLUS good gears (3.2* or better). Considering that the majority were slow LB9s or worse, 170hp L03s, with 2.77 gears, a lot of Irocs are dog slow.

91-92 Z28 again it's gotta be a LB9 5spd or L98 with good gears and dual cats to be a high end car.

Any TPI thirdgen with 2.77 or 2.73 gears is going to be about a second to a second and a half slower in the 1/4 than one with 3.2* or 3.4* gears. Usually the cars with better gearing also got dual cats, and in some cases a better camshaft.

There were LG4 and L03 Formulas, and plenty of LB9 autos, but the ones that got the LB9/5spd or L98 and good gears were the fastest thirdgens you're going to find without getting into a TTA, or Firehawk. I've weighed my Iroc (87, 5.7L, T-top, 1SB trim, PW, PL, etc) and my Formula (91, 5.7L, Hardtop, 1SB trim), the Formula is 400lbs lighter. I don't know about aerodynamic advantage or air intake bias, but I don't see much performance difference between the Camaro TPI intake and the Firebird intake.

The car has 2,400 miles. It's worth a premium price, and if you don't think so, the car obviously just isn't for you.

cerberus

Awesome explination. I suppose my car feels pretty fast is because of the 85 tpi and the 342 axle. I dont have a lot of experience in other z except an L69 5 speed. I assumed most other Z28's or IROCs would be as fast as my 85.

Thanks I feel special LOL

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

I was really thinking about putting in an offer. But figured my Formula needs too much work to justify buying another one...