85Z28NOS

iTrader: (2)

I just read an article that pontiac put the 301 turbo in the 80-81 ta so they could work out any bugs and dial in the engine with the anticipation of the 82 model year. It wasn't until GM killed all engine plants except Chevy and called them corporate engines for all bop models that changed everything pontiac was planning.. It would have been interesting to see what would have came from that combo in a third gen from the factory.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

Yep - imagine a 301 SEFI intercooled turbo. It probably could have been a monster.

3rdgenparts

iTrader: (8)

Ya I have see prototype pics of a 1982 Trans am in the GM design studio.The hood said "Turbo" on it and T/A on the fenders.Those 301 Turbo's were garbage !!! MUCH worse then the LU5 crossfire

If your "Skilled" ,LU5's can run NICE !!

Dave

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Yup. And the LU5 was supposed to have 190 hp and come with a 4 speed.....

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

That was a starting point. Buick's 3.8 turbo wasn't making much power in 82 either.

eseibel67

Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Cadillac and Chevrolet all making their own engines was insane. I can't hardly believe it went on as long as it did.

SBC's for everyone was a good move.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

When GM stopped making all the better motors for each brand, they killed their customer loyalty, a lot.
It was a very sad time.
They should still be making those engines. The LS is basically a updated Pontiac motor if you look at them close. Only thing the same as a chebby is the bore center and bellhousing bolt pattern.

eseibel67

^ I disagree. 95% of the population couldn't care less about what's under the hood. I'm in the 5% minority (and I've always been partial to the Olds Rocket) and I'm o.k. with the consolidation.

And I'm not sure how an LS engine is related to a Pontiac engine. The LS was a clean sheet design that is so wonderful in every aspect that it almost defies description. A long way from a 350 Pontiac.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

These days you are correct, people don't care as much whats under the hood. I'm a Poncho man and my dad and gramps were Olds men.
Kinda happens when you take away choices.

Lets see,
Pontiac heads uses valve angles in the same ballpark as LS1.
Both motors have the same external deminsions regardless of CI. (except the smallest versions of each)
Both are generally stroked more instead of bored more to increase displacement.
(aftermarket Pontiac blocks can take a 5-6" stroke crank, tq!!)
Both use a valley cover under the intake.
Both oil pans bolt to timing cover.
You can make a Pontiac intake removable with 2 cuts so you can remove it without disturbing the timming or cooling system. Like LS.
Both have heads that use 4 bolts per cyl (which im not a fan of), unless you go aftermarket.
Rockers bolted down on some of the pontiac heads.
The 73-4 SDs the oil pump could have been driven off of the rear of the cam. It was cast and ready but owner had to machine it.
(like a crank driven LS1 pump)
There is more if you look..

GM uses the best of the past motors and combines them with their so called "clean sheet" designs.. Like it or not there just happens to be a LOT of Pontiac in theses LS things.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

That might have been the beginning of the and for Olds and Pontiac. They took away their identity, and made them use many more shared parts, and engines, etc. They all shared platforms before, but there were distinct differences with what each brand did with them. The last time Pontiac tried to stand out and do their own thing was probably the 1989 TTA. Unfortunately, they had to rely on a Buick motor, and an outside company to assemble them due to its effect on the corporate CAFE rating. So the price doomed it to failure.
While the 301 turbo was a turd, it definitely would have benefited from modern fuel injection and intercooling. It could have been something potent.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Ive built 2 of those 301 turbo motors and wow are they chintzy. They were built as a milage motor and not ment to be a performance setup..
Would need a waay better crank, rods, pistons heads and intake to just start.
I have always wanted to do one with those better parts and EFI instead of that suck thru carb setup. That motor stock was a huge t-u-r-d...

FormulaL98

Agreed those 301's are turds. Although as someone said earlier Buick 3.8's weren't much to right home about in the beginning either. Although I have been raised around Chevys my whole life, I'm a BOP man at heart. A third gen version of a Formula 400 would have been cool. Imagine if today you not only had Chevy LS, ford mod, and dodge hemi options but also modern Pontiac and Buick v8's. late model performance would be far more exciting than it already is

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Consider this: The same team which developed the 3.8 turbo, used the same technology to develop the 301 turbo. Imagine if the 301 package had parallel development with the 3.8, (which it would have). By the mid '80s it would have had SFI, intercooler, etc. Of course, that thin walled 301 block wouldn't have survived.


Before the 3rd gen, there was real rivalry between Z/28 and Trans Am. They were completely different camps. Circa 1980, it looked like the 3rd gen would have continued that. The rumor mill had the Z/28 with a fuelie, 190 hp, "Crossram" smallblock, hooked to a 4 speed manual, and the Trans Am with a 210 hp, turbo 301, hooked up to a three speed auto. Would have been cool.

Pontiacs lost most of their magic for me after 1981, when GM went with the corporate engine strategy.

cerberus

I loved my 81 turbo formula. The turbo 301 was before its time and had not been adequately designed yet. It did a great job of making HP and TQ and I bet if pontiac had more time it would have been a great motor.

navy02ws6

Thank God. The 301 is probably the only GM V8 engine that I wouldn't trade a 305 for.

okfoz

There was also testing done on a 4.3 Chevy V6 Turbo in the early 80's, As early as 1985 there was rumors of Chevy getting the 4.3 V6 Turbo and Pontiac getting the 3.8L Turbo from Buick. In the end only the TTA got the 3.8L turbo as an option.

The 301 Pontiac Turbo was a response to the downsizing of engines in the late 70's Since Pontiac liked to buck the system and really had decent HP when that went away they turned to Turbocharging. From year to year there was vast improvements garnered in technology, better HP, better emissions, you name it. I would bet by 1983 or 1984 the 301 Turbo would have been a great engine... From articles I have read and Books I had read, Pontiac really worked hard to get all of the bugs out of the engine for the new car... Instead they were stuck with the Mandated 305.

To be honest, yes there was backlash from the public, a Chevy engine in my Buick??? But eventually people got over it. Honestly however if you did not notice, Buick still retained their 3.8L for many many years, as did Chevy with the SBC. Olds kept the 307 for a few more years and Cadillac had their V8 and later Northstar engine. Pontiac kept the I4 engine. I am trying to remember who had the 2.8...