chazman

iTrader: (4)

225/60/15's for '85 to '90 Mustangs, but nothing for us. What!!?!?!? Are we chopped liver?


Are Mustang folks bigger spenders than us? WTF?

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Because Ford made 200,000,000,000 of those Fox Stangs a year from 1979 to 93.
GM only made a very small % of that number of Fbodys and even a smaller % of them had 16" wheels and only 83 people have said they would buy them for the Fbody.
Thats maaaaaybe 332 tires for fbodys. And only 50% of these would be sold.
Edit: I forgot about the TTA guys, you maaaay get some of them to buy some.
Who knows how many vet guys would buy them???
They are also pricey if I remember correctly.
Id sure like to smoke a set of them off for old times sake !!!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Kelsey has them for $300 a pop.

blue birdy 87

Whats so special about gatorbacks vs other tires? Besides nostalgia?

subroc

iTrader: (2)

nothing at all. Thats all it is...nostalgia. There are MUCH better tires out there today for our cars. Its just important for the guy doing a nut and bolt perfect show car.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

You and I aren't chopped liver, no. But their market research probably showed that there was a market with a profit margin for these, and probably not for the 245s. Given market prices for these cars lately, I'm not surprised. Mint low mile cars with their Original Gatorbacks struggle to break the 10 grand barrier.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Well, I spent almost a G-note on the GY F1s I put on my '89. I certainly would have spent a couple hundred more on a new set of correct Gatorbacks.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

And I put BF Goodrich G Forces on mine that were far from cheap. You and I will pay for quality and originality. Unfortunately, the average Third Gen owner at this point would probably go to Farm and Fleet and buy a set of $70 Widetrack Radials with raised white letters, and then bitch for a week over the $280 he got "soaked" for.

One more example of why we need to raise awareness and value of our cars. How we do that is exposure. We need an alpha male movie protagonist to drive one of these without irony. And I'm not talking about Dexter in The Office either.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I think it would only take afew guys wearing NEW Gatorbacks on their mint or restored 3rd gens before many would consider them "required equipment" for a proper looking car.

sonjaab

I had TWO new TAs (85 & 87) with Gatorbacks..............

THEY SUCK!
Not to mention they were worn out at 20k miles, were noisy, they were different
sizes front to rear (rims?) and couldn't be rotated without being swapped off the rims (a needless $$ expense IMO), and real $pendy to replace at $200 EACH (think 80s money). Who would want them now?

My current 84 Z rides on a nice set of reasonably priced and long wearing BFG radial
TAs.....................(none of those cheapie Big Honcho brand drag radials for me)

Just my opinion and experience............carry on!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Funny how this exact debate is raging on the Mustang sites (haters vs lovers), but it looks like folks are going to buy them.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Even better pricing for MCA members.

http://www.mustang.org/classifieds/s...1-21-21&cat=21

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

It's interesting but I recall a lot of hate on the Gatorbacks from back in the day. I used to read Cars Illustrated magazine and back in 1987, Tony DeFeo bought a brand new stripped down '87 Mustang LX and did an article on it. One of his recommendations was to take the Gatorbacks and point them towards the nearest trash barrel, LOL! I bet almost no one bought new ones once they wore out after 20,000. People who buy BMW M and Mercedes AMG products will tolerate very expensive tires that wear out that fast. But I imagine that number is quite small in the Chevy and Ford camps.

I think it would be cool to have 'em out there but to be quite frank, there's a lot of other parts for these cars I'd like to see them start making again before the Gatorbacks, like the fuel tank vent valve that makes your whole car smell like gasoline if it goes bad for example. That's pretty unsettling, and you have to scrounge up a used one if yours fails.

navy02ws6

I think a better question is why are they not available in C4 Corvette sizes? Didn't these tires debut on the C4? Not to mention that everyone knows that Corvette owners have deeper pockets than F-Body owners, and certainly Mustang owners...pretty dumb on Goodyear's part IMO.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

My 1988 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe(fox body) came with 225/60/16 Gatorbacks. On that car, I was quite happy with their dry pavement performance, but they were not so good on wet pavement. Also, being a soft and sticky compound, they wore out pretty fast. By 25,000 miles mine were about done. I replaced them some Dunlap tires that were cheaper than the Gatorbacks at the time and gave nearly as good dry pavement performance and much better wet performance and I got over 40,000 miles out of them. Other than restoring a car back to absolutely factory original condition, I don't see any reason you'd want to run original Gatorbacks considering much better tires are available today.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

They just look sooo darn sexy!! They are just a dry, summer performance tire and they are not ment for rain or winter. Yes, there are better/cheaper tires but most just "look" cheesy anymore...

chazman

iTrader: (4)

They do make our cars look "right". Plus, I thought they performed great as a summer tire back in the day.

zmadmaxz

@Slater126 About the vent valve. Im guessing thats why my car reaks like gas all the time. Glad to know i can't buy a new one. LOL I thought I might have a hole in my tank, I guess ill try and find one before I drop the tank.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

Absolutely!!! But they did overprice them back in the day and they didn't last for the money.

KMK454

I replaced my 20 year old Gatorbacks with Firestone Firehawk Wide Oval Indy 500s (yes that's an abysmal tire name). The performance was vastly superior in just about every way with the Firestones. But comparing a new tire to a 20 year old dry and brittle tire is not even remotely fair.

I bet a remade Gatorback with modern rubber would prove to be comparable as a summer tire. It'd lose out in versatility (rain performance, cold, etc.) to the new tires, but I still think it'd do great in dry summer conditions.

subroc

iTrader: (2)

Im just biased at this point. I replaced a set of 12 year old Pirrelli's that really had no business being on my car any longer with a set of BFGoodrich Gforce sport Comp 2's. The were NOT cheap but they grip like no tomorrow and are quieter than expected. They have awesome rain grip as well. Def one of the best things i spent money on recently with this car.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Why do they make them for the stang crowd and not our crowd?

Come on chazman, don't humor us, we both know the exact answer to that question.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Because they made a LOT more Mustangs.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

My F1s were exponentially better than the 20+ year old Gatorbacks they replaced. But honestly, except for rain performance, not substantially better than the Gatorback were when new. The Gatorback was not much of a rain tire I suppose, but I couldn't think of a better summer high perf tire from the '80's.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I know that you are probably referring to general 3rd gen cheapskatery, but that might be an oversimplification.

Mustang folks have a powerful and influential sanctioning body in the MCA, (Mustang Club of America). We have no organization like that. We have no standards by which our cars are deemed 'correct' at shows. We have no way to influence vendors and manufacturers in any meaningful way as a group. In a word, we are not organized.

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

100% agree on this. We need some good, knowledgeable person to get a group like that going. Ahem...

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I agree 100%, but look at the reasons why; very few people beyond those who post in this sub-forum care. 95% of thirdgen owners would never pay the $50 fee to belong to a club such as MCA, and 95% of thirdgen owners just don't take care of their cars and would rather rag them out with tractor paint than worry about what kind of tires came on the car when new; hell half the people rolling thirdgens around probably don't even have four matching junkyard baldies on the car as it is, let alone worry about Gatorbacks.

It's a shame, and hopefully someday it will change, but it doesn't look any better than it did a decade ago so one has to begin to wonder.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

While I agree that we do have that element, I also have to say that there are plenty of folks who would strive to take our hobby to the next level, if given a chance and some mentoring. The MCA started with just four enthusiasts who wanted to create a national club for Mustang enthusiasts. Although early emphasis was on concours restorations, it does encompass everyone.

There are dozens of Camaro and Firebird clubs around the country, so it's not as if they don't exist. And even the MCA itself, has 170 local chapters throughout the world.

As F-car enthusiasts in general and 3rd gen enthusiasts specifically, we really don't have a national organization which can represent us or even help raise the bar in our hobby. And that is a really big shame. The most knowlegeable folks I know on 3rd gens are right here. There must be a way to take it to the next level. I'd be willing to be part of it.

82tarecaro

iTrader: (4)

We just need someone who can organize this. I am in if it ever gets started.

Guest

I will go out of my way to thumbs up another guy driving a thirdgen. I nearly got in a wreck making a left turn trying to lean out my window to give a guy in a beater Camaro a fist pump. Others have done the same for me. I really can't think of another model of car that has such a brotherhood associated with it. I think it is possible for us to make some organization to give us more of a voice in the auto world.

scottmoyer

Well, let's see. The Camaro side had the USCC (United States Camaro Club) that went belly up and folded. Some of the members took the membership lists/subscribers and created the Worldwide Camaro Association. As WCA, the push to get the word out was strong and many states had a WCA representative that had polo shirts stating they were the state rep, and we recruited as many people as we could at car shows, club meets, gatherings, etc. At some point, the Worldwide Camaro Association was moved into the same business as Classic Chevy Int'l and became Worldwide Camaro Club. Then Eckler's bought the business and didn't promote the Camaro industry as much as they did the Corvettes and the Classic Chevy's, so the WCC pretty much folded and went away also. It was not easy recruited members. To many people want the cars, but didn't have any interest in being part of a national body. Actually, one of the founding members of the Worldwide Camaro Association is an active member of TGO.

Now back to our regularly scheduled program!!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I remember those. In fact I was a member of the USCC. I think all of those were opened and closed and bought and sold, based simply on being a profitable enterprise. The MCA is a non-profit. Is that the a tenant of it's success? Who knows, I sure don't. It just seems to me that the Mustang guys have they're act together better than we do.

........and that's why they get new Gatorbacks and we don't............

paulo57509

I hardly ever see Fox bodied Mustangs anymore. When I do wee them, they're about as ragged out as most 3rd Gen Camaros.

Just my opinion and observation, but the 225/60VR-15 is probably just a more popular size tire than a 245/50VR-16.

Cat Amanigh

For 9 years I've been part of the unspoken fellowship that is Camaro ownership, never failing to acknowledge a fellow F-Body owner, and it has been a rare occasion where such gesture was not returned in kind when the other driver was in a Camaro. Firebird drivers have been far less receptive of the idea, and this has been confirmed by a friend of mine who bought an 89 Formula for the sole reason of getting the kind of acknowledgement that I got in my RS. He noticed that most Camaro owners and 0 Bird owners would reciprocate "the Camaro Wave." Maybe the issue is that we need to bring the birds into our clubs in order to amass the sorts of numbers that the 'Stangs have got.

Another thought that comes to mind is: We DO have the better cars. Perhaps the Mustang sect has got insecurity issues due to having inferior cars and feels more need to self-validate by organizing? Could it be that our cars do so much to speak for ourselves that on the subconscious level, we're wired to feel "above the need for a club?"

Slater126

iTrader: (1)

WCC still has a forum, and people appear to be posting on it. There also appears to be an American Camaro Association that monitors several regional clubs. It would be nice if there was an organized, nationwide organization though.

ibmtech

iTrader: (1)

My IROC has to have the tires rotated off the rims with any bi-directional tire. The rear rims are marked Rear and the front rims are marked Front. So unless your rims are aftermarket or C-6 sytle, it doesn't matter.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

I see lots of Fox Mustangs around here, some of them spectacularly preserved low mile examples.

I appreciate your sentiments, but I just don't think a "Camaro wave" is an adequate substitute. I would support Firebirds being folded into Camaro clubs, though.

Cat Amanigh

I agree entirely. I'm not suggesting that it's a substitute for banding together, but that the union we feel from such a simple, yet universal gesture could be a part of the obstacles standing between those of us who DO want further structure and the structured group we crave. When most people have a little of what they want, it placates them, gives a sense of adequacy. "Why rock the boat?", they say. I say we should be rocking the boat. The wave is great, but it doesn't help us get organized to assert our status in car culture at large. We can't wave at the engineering companies and get a rack and pinion kit that wasn't originally designed for a death-trap Ford, or a new fuel tank vent valve, or a set of tires that keeps the period look without sacrificing all weather performance! We NEED to band together for these things, and the complacency of our F-Body brothers and sisters is just another road block we need to overcome.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I hate to say it, but sometimes I think the only way that these cars will get the respect they deserve is for the owners who care to divorce themselves from the owners who don't, unfortunately.

klause83z28

He is exactly right. Goodyear is a company, and regardless of the nostalgia involved, Goodyear re introduced them because they can make a profit from them. To be honest, a 245/50-16 is not that common, only a handful of vehicles had this size Oem. a 225/50-15 is much more common, and can fit a variety of vehicles.This also is true for the 225/55-16 on the mustang pony rim as well, the tire is Oem for other vehicles as well.

Combine that with people who have brand loyalty and will only buy Goodyear tires, regardless of age, and there you have it. Joe shmo with his vw golf might have them.

2007xl50

I have had 2 Mustang and I have can tell you that some people do hate on them, but alot like them. The stang comunity is strong. I think the 3rd gens still have the trail park sigma about them and it's a shame-they are cool cars. I have always love the 3rd gens and Fox body stangs. I can say IMO the Fox body's are easier to work on, there is more after market support and they do run very nice with basic mods. I think my TA is batter built and cooler looking in some way than the 90 GT I had. Also when I was a kid in the 80's everyone loved the 60's cars, 70's not so much. Now the 60's cars are super hot, 70 cars are hot, but 80's cars not so much, besides a small amount of people like us. I know I would rather see a clean, stock Iroc or TA than a 69 Camaro at a car show any day as the 1st gen's are so played out, but there are not alot of people like me at shows around here. Only time will tell how our cars will get, but I have a feeling we will have to wait awhile for them to become a big deal to the general public. In the mean time just enjoy them, be happy there are people like us that respect them and relax and enjoy.

ev305tpi

iTrader: (3)

Lol... I was going to start a thread about the mustang gatorbacks now being available, but you guys already did... I really hope they come out with the tires for our cars. I just bought a 10k mile car with the OEM gatorbacks that have never been off the car, absolutely love the way they look, but really want a new set so it can be used a bit without fear of a blowout. Come on Goodyear, there are some of us waiting with cash-in-hand!

GenX'Motorsport

Somebody should forward this link and a tastefully written letter to Good Year..
I do have a feeling a 245-50-16 is coming soon though. F-Bodies, Corvettes, Grand National Gnx.

We waited forever for our Cross laces to be built again. Now they are. Same with Ronals "Firehawk" wheels..

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I ran my original Gatorbacks for 19 years before replacing them with the GS-D3 tires. The GS-D3 were better in every respect. 10,000x better in the rain. Better in the dry. Better looking. Had a much more aggressive looking stance to them. Made the Gatorbacks look tame in comparison.

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

A 19yr old gatorback would be hard as a rock compared to a 20 year newer tire..
The GS-D3 may be a vast improvement in the rain and dry performance over the old GB, but to me, the tread pattern just looks like it should be put on a import..

okfoz

I think one thing that people lose perspective of is when engineers design a suspension, they literally take the tires into account. I think most people believe that GM puts out a call for the cheapest tire, but in reality GM sets out specifications and then the selected tire companies actually bid for that tire to make it as the Engineers want. Although I agree that there are better tires out there than the gator backs, since I only drive in the summer and only on days that there is 0%chance of rain... I think it would be neat to see what the engineers really wanted the car to handle like from the box.

With all of that said, back in the day the tire you bought at Belle Tire, Discount Tire, KanRock Tire, Tirerack or Sears or wherever even though they were the same make and model as the tire that came on the car, the tire was not exactly the same as the ones that originally came on the car. Often times they will take a tire that is close to what they want and then tweak it to make it the way they want it. When in a given year you are going to buy 200,000 tires it is pretty much up to the designer to say what they want...

I know that GM used to pay about $4.00 per tire too... chew on that one.

GenX'Motorsport

Does anybody know if these new GB's that are being made for the Mustangs are of the same, original compound as they originally were? Or did they modernize them?

89G92CAMARO

I agree with Chazman. When restoring the cars that we do have in the future I would also want the correct tire pattern Gatorbacks that came on the car stock/original when new in 1989 but, made to today's safety standards and materials.

afremont

The original tires sucked. They wore out fast, got harder as the tread wore down and floated on water when they weren't trying to veer you off the road if you hit a puddle. My Kumho tires are vastly superior to the gatorbacks that came with the car. I'm sure that most any modern V or better rated tire would be now that it's a quarter of a century later.

EDIT: I kept a pair with 50% tread, they're hard as plastic now. They were originally rears. The fronts barely lasted 10K, but I like to corner hard.

okfoz

10K??? That would last me 10 years...

John