eseibel67

Oh yeah. You like this one? Looks pretty gross.

scottmoyer

Not sure what world you're living in when you say the lines don't flow. The hood line flows smoothly into the top of the doors and the top of the doors transition smoothly into the rear quarters and the bottom of the rear window. There is a central body line that starts at the front of the car and is a straight line to the rear. You may be thinking of the 4th gens when talking about the lines and the front end!

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

The 3rd gen is my favorite, in terms of shape. I like lines and curves, more lines and curves. If it's too round, it looks like a jelly bean, like many of the 2nd and 4th and some 5th gen F bodies.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Great car you've got there Scott - stunning!

Boxxx

5th gen F-body, when did that happen? The 5th gen Camaro is the Zeta platform.

For me Firebirds are 2nd, 1st, 4th, and 3rd in order of aesthetic preference. Camaros are 1st, 2nd, and I think 3rd and LT1 4th are a tie with LS1 4th being last. Like I had said earlier though the 3rd gen is a good compromise between the modern improvements and still being service-friendly. I had been looking for a 4th gen, but I lamented the idea of something going wrong and then having to fix it. Changing spark plugs is bad enough on them. That and finding a manual was impossible, same with the third gen. Since I had to settle for an automatic I went with the second gen, but now I've changed my mind.

bjpotter

Beautiful Red too. I am not a big fan of Bright Red, but this red is just gorgeous. Is that Red Metallic.
I don't know what he was smoking, the lines are great on these cars. Both Camaro's and Firebirds. The latter 3rd Gen Camaro front ends always remind of the lines of a stealth fighter.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

3rd gens are great looking cars when the gaps are tight and the paint is shiny. They are truly form over function though. They have great lines but poorly built, T-tops leaked from the factory and toss in lackluster performance with a steep price tag for a well optioned car in the heyday = stereotypes. Yes they can be built in to what ever suites your fancy but people that have the funds to buy nostalgic vehicles choose not to buy a pristine 3rd gen. If you doubt this, sit in the passengers seat and notice the hump next to the console. I love 3rd gens but they are not a shoe box chevy or a 67 - 69 or 70 - 73 F body. Way to many produced and almost all had the same compromised engineering and poor build quality. 4th gens were worse except for the LS engines and 6 speed tranny. The shifter was crappola though.

TEDSgrad

iTrader: (4)

Thread title implies lack of external validation.

At 28, I bought mine new and drove out to CA; and drove up and down Hwy 1 as my older brother was living in Santa Barbara (Brooks Institute)- approx. a 24 day road trip. Here's a pic he took from '89 above Santa Barbara:


March of '94, I drove to Phoenix to see my younger brother's bike race before he did - he lived in Paris while owning an AMA team. I drove 24 hours straight/elapsed from Mpls, walked into Bryce Canyon bleary-eyed and took this pic:



Later that year, I drove back to CA with my younger brother. His Aprilia 250 was in the USGP at Laguna Seca. My younger brother watched the race in the Press Box with the president of Aprilia! Priceless!!!! He died in '96.
Desirable? Desire-able. Not able to replace it - Family, Formula, Fond Memories.

Here's the car today:

ledman66

iTrader: (2)

My point exactly. ..soon enough 3rd gens will not be found in the salvage yards anymore as they become more popular Like the previous generations.

Boxxx

TEDSgrad is a prime example of how the owner has more to do with how a car holds up more so than the car itself. I've seen plenty of Honda and Toyota vehicles under ten years old that look like absolute garbage, paint faded and some to the point it's down to metal that's rusting. They also sound like they're about to fall apart at any given moment. I'll be the first to admit the F-body wasn't the pinnacle of automotive quality, but it's not as bad as some would want you to believe.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

You may be surprised at who has 3rd gens in their collections - and what cars are parked next to them. Overreaching generalizations like this are often found to be false.

okfoz

I know people with deep 6 figure salaries, and even into 7 figure salaries that are interested in these cars too... of course they like the higher end cars like the Firehawks, & TTA's

I want to know at what point this thread became a bash fest on 3rd gens... If you don't like them, go by something else.

IMissMy86TA

I have funds and chose what I chose.. I am not poor and could afford to buy any car I really wanted with the exception of those over 1MM. I am not crazy with my money. My wife is chinese.. very frugal she don't understand. Thats why no collection....

bjpotter

For the money I invested in mine, and I could have spent much more, I could have bought many different cars (Used). Lower mileage Corvettes, Benz, etc, but I wanted another 3rd Gen. It was the only "Desirable" vehicle on my radar.

kymmee

Surprise, surprise to all the naysayers. People with disposable income ARE buying third gens. Myself being one of them, 4 here at my household, all are decent, a few being more collectible than others. As it has been said before, people that grew up in the late 70's and 80's are now at the age of being close to or have income to spend on "toys". These cars remind me of when I was young, had little responsibilities, and lived to have fun. Well, now things have changed, but the cars fill some of the past.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

IMissMy86TA

so you think thats a good idea to buy something else? LOL
just kidding, I know where your heart lies.. with a third gen!

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

Just the Bashers,I agree with John 100%,GET ANOTHER CAR.Of all Places to ask a question like that,I would like to see a pic of the OP's car,then we can see why he even asked the question in the 1st place.After all this is a 3rd Gen web site.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

I been wondering that for the last 4 pages....

IMissMy86TA

Here are pics from one of his threads... since you guys wondered here is his baby...

enuf said...moving on..

taken from https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...bird-home.html

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

....

Linson

Not so fast.
Its one thing to say (speaking from observation) that Thirds generally do not command big money [thank god] and it doesn't look as though they will any time soon. That, i don't think, diminishes one's Third Gen Lover bonafides.

Its kind if another thing to say that Third Gen lines generally suck and that they're the bottom of the barrel looks-wise.

The former being a constant in this thread, the latter being a more recent development.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

I think the train derailed way back at one of the switch yards.

Linson

To be fair, i dont think the OP's question [why aren't our cars worth more money?] is tantamount to Third-Gen bashing. Its a valid question that gets a hundred threads a year. Therefore, bringing his jalopy (with pics) into the conversation and bashing it seems like a non seqitur.

However, having seen the car , i think its relevant to this discussion to say that Third Gens are not in a place where it makes any kind of sense to try to "fix up" a car in that condition, even if the car was free. Its starting off in a very deep hole, unnecessarily.

My advise to the OP is to bail on that car. Why? Because you'll get where you want to be faster and cheaper with a "better condition" starting point.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

^^^^ What Linson said.
I have to apologize for post #171. I take that back and will remove it.

THAT is exactly why the OP needs to change his thread "Why are our cars not all that desirable?" It SHOULD state:"Why is my car not desirable?" After the posting of pictures of the OP's Firebird, he is a person with HUGE dreams and INTENTIONS. I get that. We all have dreams.

BUT.....When you, me, and everybody else see A (not his)3rd gen rolling down the road, in that condition, being held together with bailing wire, duct tape and any other bonding agent know to mankind, smoking, running like crap,it's no wonder people say they are undesirable. Seems to me SOME peoples idea of a running car is if you get in it, turn the key and it starts, means your good to go. It don't work that way.

I get chills both ways when I see a jalopy AND a pristine 3rd gen roll by. They ARE fine looking cars.
But c'mon, some just ain't ready for the public.
It takes time and money.

mantaguy

iTrader: (5)

[QUOTE=Bob88GTA;5879742]^^^^ What Linson said.
I have to apologize for post #171. I take that back and will remove it.

THAT is exactly why the OP needs to change his thread "Why are our cars not all that desirable?" It SHOULD state:"Why is my car not desirable?" After the posting of pictures of the OP's Firebird, he is a person with HUGE dreams and INTENTIONS. I get that. We all have dreams.QUOTE]


Exactly,

okfoz

You find a Base 1st gen, Base 2nd Gen or Base 4th gen in the same condition as the car in those pictures it would be a hard sell, it would not be "desirable" as the title thread indicated... Using those pictures of the brown/red car as a baseline, I would guess it might take north of $7000 to just make it look good, and that is if you paint the car yourself, and did all of the interior work yourself, rebuilt the engine yourself and rebuilt the transmission yourself... (ask me how I know)

It is not a bashing anyone's car, but we have to be honest, if you have something that is half finished, you will be lucky to get 1/3 the value of a completed car... Unfortunately, based on those pictures that would be classified as a borderline "parts car" in my book...

I think the reason why so many of the nice cars still struggle to get higher dollar values, is there are too many cars still out there in various stages of poor condition that can be had for next to peanuts.

John

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

We should really try, as a group, to not bash ANYBODY's car. They have the same interests we do, some have more skill, some have less, and they are doing it because it makes them happy & my hat's off to them.

Personally I think it's a great time to be picking up 3rd gens & am glad I'm on board. It's like 20 years ago with the 60's & 70's muscle cars where you could find solid parts cars for less than a grand and clean drivers for less than 5. They will go up, trust me!

IMissMy86TA

I am also NOT bashing his car but several wondered what the car was that caused the OP to post this thread to begin with. It puts perspective on his question. We, as a group, wonder why people think badly about our cars and discuss it all the time. When we discuss it we talk about stereotypes, ******s, beer, knight rider and whacked out butcheries to our cars. We post pics of craigslist freaks and ones up on blocks in fields. We are not bashing the car but this car does fall into some of these categories and we cant say it doesnt. We do hope he follows Linson's advice and move on to a better base line car but some people cant afford to do so and that is fine by all of us. sgp0511 (junior member), you are a junior member of our board and we support your efforts with this car and any other car you get and we support you bringing up a topic that causes heated debate amongst this (ours and yours) community. Please feel free to contribute, ask questions and make friends here! Our advice to you is to get a better car to begin your journey with and use this free car as a parts car as many of us have. Please feel free to join in and discuss with us We are not a bad group of men and women.

Bob88GTA

iTrader: (2)

"sgp0511 (junior member), you and a junior member of our board and we support your efforts with this car and any other car you get and we support you bringing up a topic that causes heated debate amongst this (ours and yours) community. Please feel free to contribute, ask questions and make friends here! Our advice to you is to get a better car to begin your journey with and use this free car as a parts car as many of us have. Please feel free to join in and discuss with us We are not a bad group of men and women."

^^^X2

And by the way sgp0511......where'd ya go????
I hope we as a group and fellow members of TGO did not run you off. It CAN be tough sometimes, but we're here for ANY advice/help that you need. Don't take this all personal; Like is short enough

okfoz

I am not trying to bash anyone's car... At the same time you have to put perspective into the realm of reality. I can understand why some people get frustrated or upset but there comes a point to when you have to tell people the truth.

I am not sure if the car posted was the OP's or not, nor (after I corrected myself) did I imply that it was the OP's car, as it was second hand information.

I think for so many people they see TV shows and they watch people completely restore a car in a week, and have it look like a piece of artwork. I am not sure that most realize that it took hundreds of people working together, and hundreds of hours of work, knowing where to buy parts and have them shipped overnight, etc..

I too like to dream, but I have experience completely restoring a car on my own... It is a frustrating experience, and it is not something that can be done in a weekend. If you want to take several weeks to it there is the possibility, and you have to have tons of money and tons of time, and dedication.

John

John

Boxxx

Restoring a car is a royal pain, even with having all of the tools known to man. Manpower definitely makes a huge difference. Even professionals can take a year or more to fully go through a car, if you've ever seen any of the other restoration shows like Fantom Works, Graveyard Carz, or Bitchin' Rides where they actually notate which hundredth day they're on. That's with a small team working on the car every day. Now strip it down to one person that might get a few hours during the week and most of their time to work on it is the weekend, all of a sudden you're looking at 4-5+ years to restore a car. It's definitely a labour of love, and a seemingly endless money sink.

FirebirdUSX

know a bank owner and billionaire in Romania who has a TTA in his collection .He also has Elton John's pink Rolls Royce.

http://www.tiriaccollection.ro/colec...ebird-trans-am

These cars are very desirable in Europe.I park mine next to latest BMW M6 and i find people looking inside mine...which i hate because they leave hand marks on the glass

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Well... It's good to see that nothing has changed around here in years. This topic has been a subject of discussion since this forum had less than half a dozen boards and it was white, yellow, and red text on a black background. Nearly 20 years later none of the arguments have changed.

The problem starts somewhere and as this thread shows, even this community doesn't really appreciate the cars. How can you expect anyone else to respect them?

Boxxx

Yep, can't expect others to respect you when you don't even respect yourself. Pretty much all points have been hit and one time or another. Really just within the last few years the later second gens have started to appreciate. You can still find a decent driver for $4,000 or so if you hold out and jump on them. You can get a good LT1 4th gen in the $4,000 range, even less if automatics don't bother you. The average 3rd gen really is in that awkward position of not being rare/collectable enough and not fast enough out of the box. Those in the know, keyword here, appreciate them for what they are and not for what they're currently not. Will their time come? Sure, with enough time. Just enjoy them while you're not restricted to expensive survivors and restored cars, or overpriced shells in need of full restoration.

Linson

I don't and never have understood this point.
Can you explain what (and who) you mean by this?

RTGTA

If you go into GM Service Information (SI) and build a 2010 + Camaro it calls it a 'VIN F' so...

Boxxx

That was just in reverence though, so it doesn't technically count.

okfoz

Technically according to the VIN I just looked at on a 2013, the 5th gen is technically an "F" car.

2G1FZ3DP2D9812345

Boxxx

It's the Zeta platform though, the VIN can say whatever it wants it has no relation to the F-body whatsoever. It replaced the V-body, the F is just for reverence.

PurelyPMD

iTrader: (3)

Tomato....Tomato

scottmoyer

What Drew is saying is how can we, as a community, expect others to respect our cars and give them the appreciation that some of us feel they deserve, when we still have so many members that think the low mile cars aren't worth as much as someone's asking, and we still have the rattle can threads, and the "will this 4th gen part fit on my 3rd gen posts. Along with than that being a really long sentence, these type of threads are getting long and tiresome.

Each time one of these threads is created, a debate goes back and forth on why the cars are getting so expensive and why they shouldn't be so expensive. It's also nice to see the community bashing their own with comments like they are rattle traps and they always leak and they were poorly built, etc.

BTW, Welcome back Drew. It's good to see you on the board again.

Boxxx

I'm more for potatoes.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Reference, yes, just as the name Camaro was used to reference the previews 4 versions of it.

Javier87z28

iTrader: (1)

I, personally think theyll follow in the footsteps of the 2nd gens, only question is will the TA's be worth more than the Camaros? As the second gens have.

Boxxx

Reverence, not reference. I guess the new Regal is a G-body too then.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Drew! Where have you been?!?

RTGTA

Stupid global platforms...

sgp0511

well thanks for knocking my car guys. I wasnt basing desirability of third gens from my car, obviously when the average person sees it they think junk, as my wife and many people on here think. I was basing my question on what I see on craigslist, what I see on the streets, what I see on tv and there arent many people going after or going all out on a third gen. Where do I see third gens? I see them as the stunt cars on fear factor, i see them as test cars for myth busters, on restoration shows atleast 2 ive seen, shops hate putting money into them (gas monkey and counting cars) Looks like by the replies I should part out this car and buy a good condition car, well thats not going to happen, as I enjoy bringing a car back from the dead. Im seeing people say it will take atleast 7k to get it looking good and all that. well so far im invested $0 and i have already swapped motors and have swapped my tbi setup for a carb setup and at this time I have everything to make it run. I think $0 is a good investment so far. With all this money I am saving I imagine I can get it looking decent, as I plan on painting it soon. anyways i wont go into the details of my plan as this is not what this post is about, nor was it intended to be a thread to knock thirdgens, just a simple question i had. and on a side note heres what i did as a 15 year old kid working at a resturant
took this old thing and put all I had into it and had this ready to go when i was 16


running and ready to go. and did I mention i didnt even spend 7 grand, not even close lol

ledman66

iTrader: (2)

I dunno, I love my 88 IROC 5.0 TBI, I want another one now with a 5.7 TPI and a 88 GTA, so my car is desirable to me and that's all that matters! And I desire more of them because they are desirable body style and if you grew up in the 80's like I did, you know the IROC and the T/A we the car to have! I graduated in 1985 and remember fondly when the IROC was released, I remember the commercials too. Love it, I fell in love with the Camaro IROC-Z, as I already had fallen in love with the T/A thanks to the Night Rider TV show lol

I don't have room for that many cars though plus my wife, even though she would LET me have them, I don't want to put her through all that lol

It's just such a Sexy car though, still holds true today, I get thumbs up and nods of approval every time I drive it and when I get gas I plan on that being a 30 minute affair as I always have someone ask me about it. That makes it fun too, and gets other people interested in the 3rd gens, THUS making them more desirable to others.