dagwood

iTrader: (5)

Ok, we are all aware of what IROC's have been doing at Mecum auctions, lately. The Houston auction had a bare bones, zero optioned 86 IROC with 45k miles hammer for $25,000. It was the only IROC there.

The next auction is at Indianapolis next weekend, and I see there are 8 third gen Camaro's that are scheduled to run through. I am anxious to see if the prices will be much lower with so many on the auction block.

I think this will be a pretty good test if the high prices are still there with so many to choose from. What are your thoughts??

ironwill

My thoughts are that a storm is coming, at least where the performance car market is concerned. The 'new era' of hi-po cars offered by Detroit that spawned 400-500-600-700 hp cars easily obtained by anyone with a good credit rating is nearing an end. GM---and Chevrolet in particular---seem to be leading the manufacturers' mad rush to drop ICE cars in favor of EVs. The Camaro is slated to be dropped entirely after the 2023 model year; personally, I'll be surprised if it survives even that long. This current 'chip shortage' that has crippled car manufacturing may just provide the excuse the manufacturers need to drop entire carlines in wholesale fashion. No doubt, the fringe high-horsepower cars would likely be among the first victims.

What has this to do with 3rd gen prices? Consider what was basically the same occurrence back in the early '70s, of which I was an eye-witness, when the Great Oil Embargo coupled with auto insurance companies' performance car surcharges practically eliminated an entire segment of the automotive scene overnight, and what that subsequently did to prices of all performance and muscle cars of that era. IMO, the same thing is going to happen again, maybe not right away, but certainly within a few very short years.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

I miss the days when you could buy a beater Thirdgen for 3K, nice drivers for 5K, and immaculate examples for 10K. Barrett Jackson and other exposure on TV have driven up interest in cars in general and prices as well. I also think maybe the enthusiasts of 80s cars getting to the age where they are established and able to spend more has driven up prices.

ironwill

Most certainly the case on both points, especially concerning BJ, Mecum, and other auction companies.

timfitz63

I think these are both good reads on the situation, with both leading to the same conclusion: higher prices for high-performance sports cars -- even for classic ones that have relatively low horsepower ratings by comparison to the current breed. In fact, it's probably already begun. Just the other day I was eyeing a very nice '89 Trans Am GTA, a 5.7L automatic, with relatively low mileage and a relatively high (pushing original sticker) asking price -- and I found myself pondering whether I should pursue it as a garage companion for my Formula...?

Regarding the departure of the Camaro: I tend to wonder if it won't be converted to electric, a la the Mach-E Mustang...?

randyhummel

They need to get Electric Charging stations more prevalent in rural areas before they can all go EV. I live in north west Ohio and I can say I think the closest one I have seen to me is 1.5 hours away. I personally don't want an Electric car. The demarcates are pushing it on us and it is worse for the environment then gas with the electric plant using coal and natural gas to produce the power and the batteries alone are also hazardous to get rid of. They are not willing to build more nucellar plants to produce the power needed and wind and solar are not clean enough either. Not viable in norther climates.

timfitz63

Not disagreeing with you at all; but when have the demarcates (as you term them) ever allowed common sense and facts to cloud the issue...? Rather, circular reasoning has become their formula for success...

For example: the chemical composition of exhaust gas from a modern gasoline-powered vehicle is mainly nitrogen (73%) -- which is nearly the same proportion of nitrogen as in the native air (78%). There is also some water vapor and carbon dioxide (both about 13% each), with trace gases making up the remaining 1%. So the whole controversy surrounding 'carbon emissions' from fossil fuels is predicated on the argument that carbon dioxide -- which every bird, fish, and mammal on the plant exhales -- is an 'environmentally-hazardous gas.' Or, in other words: nature has evolved in such a way as to be hazardous unto itself... That just doesn't add up... But seemingly no hard scientific facts and reasoning will thwart the environmentalists from pushing their soft and circular 'science' on everyone -- to the point of actually accusing people like me of being 'science deniers' when I hit them with hard facts and logic... Go figure...

Sorry for the digression from the main topic...

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

7 of the 8 third gen camaros have their original engine.

I like the 82 pace car and both 87's.

The 92 is nice but could have replaced the faded rocker emblems and rear and 5.7 cracked emblems.

I like the 90 Iroc also but its hard to tell the miles (80,258).

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

There are also 2 89 TTA's. One restored mileage unknown and one with 5,500 miles.

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

I just saw they also have a 1990 Firebird Formula scheduled, too. Unknown miles and no pics.

The 46k mile 87 IROC has C&C t-tops.t-tops. Those probably won't make a value difference since a lot of people don't know the difference anyways

chazman

iTrader: (4)

The 6th gen Camaro is on it's death march, thanks to various reasons, not the least of which was uninspired, almost frumpy styling. GM says it's last ICE will be before 2035. Not an exciting time for new cars...not for me, anyway.

All of these auction cars are ridiculously priced. Anything from a dealer is a ripoff too. With that said, I still see reasonably priced 3rd gens and Fox Mustangs if you don't mind something which requires some love. But these cars have come up in price too. A lot of people are looking for affordable alternatives. '80's and '90's GM FWD cars seem to be coming onto the scene lately.

At least I've got the cars I have.

ironwill

I have mixed feelings on that topic, but I'll just say that for now, I don't give gm's CEO credit for having any concern at all for the heritage of any of gm's iconic marques. I'll even go so far as to say that if Corvette doesn't become a spin-off, stand-alone company, it too is likely to disappear in gm's hell-bent rush to EVs.







For whatever reason, gm completely stopped advertising the Camaro a couple years ago, and the result was predictable---sales dropped through the floor, a distant third behind Dodge (whose performance commercials are all over TV), and Mustang. And while at least part of the lagging sales could be blamed on styling issues, it's hard to argue with the fact that nobody will buy a car that they think has already been discontinued. Out of sight, out of mind.

There have always been carpetbaggers taking advantage of performance car buyers who have more $$$ than common sense, but the rise of TV auction coverage has pushed that form of exploitation to a high art. I realize one's opinion of the auctions---and what they've done to car prices---depends on which side of the sales/buyers fence one is on, but I can't help feel like they've done real damage to the hobby by taking performance cars out of the hands of would-be enthusiasts who just can't afford the high prices of decent cars. The same can be said for some of the high-profile dealers of such cars.


Those of us who love Chevrolets in general---and 3rd gens in particular---will continue to carry the flag. I bleed bowties, and that's never going to change.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Same here. I've certainly done my part to uphold the Chevy banner, with 3 IROCs, a 1981 X-11 and a '15 Chevy SS in my garage. Something to talk about after Chevy goes pure electric - if I'm still around.

vinny R

Me Too
Currently all my vehicles I own are Chevy's, 4 total. Most recently a brand new 2021 Malibu RS for my girl. I have always been a bowtie guy and will be disappointed the day comes when they are all EV's. Like Chaz says, If I am still around then!

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

All of this EV makes me shake my head.

Especially the Buick commercials that say "look at this, car parallel parks for me".

ironwill

If you're referring to the Buick Envision, it's manufactured in a factory in China.

scottmoyer

Not a Mecum auction, but a 1984 Z28 with 17k miles, sold for over $25,500 today on Bringatrailer.com. The car has the L69, 5-speed, manual windows, no AC. Sounds purpose built, but at 17k miles, probably didn't get as much action as was originally planned.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

Wow. Surprised at that price as most 82-84's do not get the love they deserve. Maybe all 3rd gens are getting deserved now.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

86 sports coupe just went for $8250. ($7500 + 10% buyers fee)
https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-45...vrolet-camaro/

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

That's pretty big money for an 80+ thousand mile sport coupe with a V6

It is in great shape, though.... Call me crazy, but I kinda dig the stripes

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

It is crazy. I wouldn't give 2k for it Lol

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

Stupid money for that car but I totally dig the graphics package on it. Just needs to be made Fast and it would be super cool.....

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

The 2 87 IROC's are on the block tomorrow.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

87 IROC with 46k miles and nonfactory ttops just went for $20k + $2k buyers fee to a phone bidder.

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

So it's not making much of a difference at all that there's so many there.

That is quite a bit lower, though, than the Houston, 45k mile, 86 IROC with zero options that hammered for $25k

I'm anxious to hear what the 11k mile 87 IROC brings, and the low mile TTA

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

87 IROC just went for $27,000 plus 10% with buyers fee (total $29,700)
https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-45...camaro-iroc-z/

I have a video of this auction if anyone wants me to email it to them.

scottmoyer

Well, I wouldn't pay that price for that car. I could never see myself driving a dark red metallic car with a bright red interior. Eww.

So, 29k for a car without TTops, no Bose, no leather. Not sure if it's a package 2 or package 3 car (it does have door moldings). The red interior just hurts its value in my opinion.

KMK454

I agree completely on the dark red over bright red... no thanks.

BUT...

There are a lot of thirdgen enthusiasts out there that view hardtops as a FEATURE, not a problem. Same with leather and all the little options. They're usually those who prioritize performance. My bid for that IROC would go down if it had T-Tops.

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

I absolutely LOVE dark red metallic GTA's with red interior....but I'm not in love with it on an IROC.

I think it's the monochromatic look of the GTA that makes it work for me. On a car with stripes, the interior should match the stripes...well for the most part.

ray jr

iTrader: (2)

i completely agree on the t-tops and i know plenty of others who feel the same way . actually if im looking to purchase a iroc and pay top dollar i wont even look at the ones with t-tops .

scottmoyer

I was using the original option cost comparison, and my car, for the pricing of this one. People have been saying that these cars aren't bringing the value, but yet we continue to see it again and again. My car has TTops, leather, Bose, auto rear view mirror, overhead console, etc. If this car, having fewer options sold for almost $30k, what is a real value for a car with more options?

These cars are bringing in good prices today, but it's still very inconsistent. You may see this car sell for $30k, then a fully loaded car with similar miles might only get to $18k at another auction. It would be nice to see more consistencies in the sale prices where only condition would change the value.

KMK454

Yes, your car should go for big bucks, but sales seem so wishy-washy and dependent upon factors external to the car. If your IROC rolls through Mecum, BaT, etc. during the right time window, you could bring top dollar. But you could also hit a night where the high bid is $10k, and it's really hard to predict what auction environment will occur.

Personally, I don't think BaT is a good venue for non-"blue chip" American cars. By that I mean 69 COPO Camaros, 63 Corvettes, a V16 Cadillac, etc. Stuff that transcends generational nostalgia...

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

TTA just went for $26,400

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-45...h-anniversary/

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

I can't wait to see the cars sell on tv. That TTA looked damn nice. You'd think they would have at least known where to put the sail panel and fender emblems, though!

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

85 Z28 with 65k miles did not sell as it stalled at $8k

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-46...et-camaro-z28/

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

89 TTA with 5,500 miles went for $33k with biyers fees.

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-46...e-car-edition/

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

82 pace car with 2,600 miles and cross fire injection went for $38,500 with buyers fees.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-46...e-car-edition/

scottmoyer

Hmmm. Am I asking too little for mine? I know it has 29k miles, but c'mon! Whoever is first to offer me $30k, it's yours and I'll even deliver it for you!

scottmoyer

Another pricing update...I wish I got the Mecum pace car pricing listed above, but having 10x the miles and NOT in the same condition as the Mecum car, I sold my pace car today for $18k. Until I saw the Mecum price, I believed my price to be very fair for a 1982 with close to 30k miles. I still do, but there's always that thought that it could have brought more.

I'm happy with the sale price, so now I need to update my signature pic again to reflect only one 3rd gen!!!

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Scott, I think you did great on your Pace Car.

Where did it end up going?

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

I guess Indy is the place to sell an Indy Pace Car. I thought they all sold high, except for the 5k mile TTA.

A 1993 Pace Car with 4,500 miles hammered for like $28,500.....usually you can't give one of those away.

Congrats on the sale, Scott. Hope it went to a good home!

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

Scott,

Congratulations on the sale. I have been debating hard on your pace car but looking into investment property.

Awesome.

Manny

QwkTrip

iTrader: (22)

COVID money. Everybody's been hiding in a cave for a year and just need to buy something now.

scottmoyer

The car went to the Pigeon Forge area of Tennessee. The new owner is venturing into the car hobby to enjoy with his son. It's going to a good home. I was looking at it this past week after I did some final detailing, and I have to be honest when I say I'm going to miss that car. I think I've come to the realization that the 82-84 styling might be my favorite, looks wise. I may need to get another after I sell the IROC-Z.

2slow5.0

iTrader: (2)

Just to put in my from some earlier posts. I don’t believe auto prices will drop any time soon. I payed 8k for my 01 SS camaro 5 years ago. I bet I easily could get 10-12 for it now. I won’t divulge what I payed for my formula back in 2003, but I damn sure couldn’t get waaay more for it now. As the Uber high value cars stay unattainable, it makes the former economical cars jump in price.
With so much money bein pumped in the system atm, it’s just the natural effect.
AS for EVs, Ford should be ashamed putting thee mustang name on lowered battery powered escape. The manufactures are heavy on the EV kick right now cause the current administration is being soo heavy handed against fossil fuels, not to mention its guaranteed their will be a massive incentive structure to the manufacturers from Uncle Sam. A different party somehow comes into power you’ll see that 2035 date disappear. Not to mention chip shortage effects ev’s too. The elephant in the room is lack of enough lithium and cobalt to put everyone in ev’s as well.
I believe the sky hi prices on some of these vehicles is actually more to do with an investment/shelter strategy. Many well to do people buy these higher end vehicles because they’re value groves much faster than normal investments. Most guys are problems setup as dealers, so no capital gains tax or sales tax.if they want to drive em they just slap a dealer/ transport plate on and go for a cruise. Or register in Montana
just my thoughts

scottmoyer

Manny, the car almost went to another TGO member a few weeks back, but he had an unfortunate family circumstance that killed the deal.

dagwood

iTrader: (5)

BLASPHEMY!!!









J/K But, the prices have gone up over the past 2-3 years or so, waaaaay more than inflation.

LeonardS

Are you changing hobbies, tired of storing the cars or?? I’m well aware of changing hobbies, but I try not to sell items from my core hobbies, because I know I’ll regret it later.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

90 IROC convertible with unknown miles went for $15950 wincluding buyers fees

https://www.mecum.com/lots/SC0521-46...z-convertible/

Richardman1992

That sounds like something Don Dokken, Robbin Crosby or Vince Neil would step out of before walking into the Troubador in 1987 haha