kizz

iTrader: (1)

My opinion is the car's legit.. there's just too many details which are correct which you can't fake, like the Eagle GT's for example, and why would you waste your time faking it for a couple thousand bucks??

I talked with the seller (Alfonso) at some length. He said the LU5 starts up but it has a clickety-clack sound like a "bad lifter" and the car drives. We almost bought it as a deconstruction project and parts car, but the cost of shipping cross-country changed our mind..

I asked Alfonso for extra pics of the interior and underside, and he sent them to me. The catalytic converter is arguably the cleanest I've ever seen, the interior is correct and complete (and near-mint) with the exception of a knife slash on a door panel and some burn damage on seat.

a few pics follow.

kizz

iTrader: (1)

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kizz

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kizz

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kizz

iTrader: (1)

perhaps the most important detail of all.. the seller and buyer on ebay never exchanged feedback. I found that weird so I called Alfonso again a couple of weeks ago to see if it had sold and he said something to the effect of "no, the buyer is still trying to get his money together".

So it's still sitting there for sale, AFAIK. If he lowers the price I still may buy it...

gearhead0384

iTrader: (7)

WOW. Those extra pictures sold me on it being legit! BTW its true about having a car damaged while in route to be delivered to a dealer. At the dealer I work at the truck driver did not check for clearance before going under a bridge and smashed the whole top half of a new Volvo XC90. Yes I know its quite different from hitting a bumper as in the case with the TA. The manufacture then has to asses the car and then eventually it will give the dealer its money or in this case with us credit us for the money that it cost us, and what happened to the car after that is anyones guess.

Kevin

crazydave

It is a legit deal. Back in 68, my high school auto shop received a new Fury 111 that was on a train that derailed and 7 cars went over.
It slid sideways and and the front fender behind the tire and the C-pillar were crushed in from the side posts of the rail car. It showed 4 miles on it.
In 1995 the auto shop was shut down and the car disappeared, The interior was trashed, there were dents and scratches all over and there was more gas than oil in the pan. It had been driven thru the parking lot a few times and the last time that I saw it, there was 22 miles on it.
We had to sign a waiver that the car would be used for training purposes only and never driven on public roads. Chrysler still has the MSO on the car.
New cars get damaged in transit every day. Anything from a tiny scratch to being "Bridged.' The car can be fixed and sold as new, fixed and sold with a damage disclosure, fixed to new car standard and sold thru an auction with a damage disclosure or sold as-is thru a salvage auction with either a 'rebuildable' title or a 'salvage title. Some are donated to various tech schools sponsored by the manufacturer. And every once in a while one will be crushed intact.

crazydave

Here is my boss's Impala SS. Check the condition of the exhaust, etc.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Not that anything additional needs to be said, but I believe the story. In highschool autoshop there was a new Suburban that had minor damage to the roofskin while on a car hauler. It was donated to the school with provision that it could never be registered and driven. It didn't look anywhere near as bad as the T/A in this thread, but this car has been sitting around for 20+ years.

1991Formula350

Somebody lock this.... who cares if it is the lowest firebird, it is damaged! It would be different if it was a life long garage queen never seeing the sun. Andrew

JT

iTrader: (1)

This is an old thread, but I seen a 1983 Trans Am come across Barrett-Jackson this evening and it had a familiar story. Doing a search, it appears this is the car:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...&aid=343&pop=1

The story for the car in the Barrett-Jackson auction is the same one as in this thread that John copy/pasted from eBay:
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...755-post8.html

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It's funny... It may be low mileage, but the condition as pictured earlier in the thread makes it clear that it's not original. If it is the same car, it looks a lot better now, but the final sale price isn't very high. Maybe it's the CFI keeping the bidding low?

JT

iTrader: (1)

The background is the same, so that gives strong indication it's the same car but I cannot see the VIN on the Barrett Jackson car to know for certain.

When the car was on Barrett Jackson auction block yesterday, Speed TV was still on the air and they briefly talked about the car. Of course we can question what (if any) these people know about ThirdGens, but they did comment that the cross fire was also known as "cease fire", however, Steve said he thought the cars were future collectors for their setup.

Edit: I recall they did say the car was repainted and worked on by the students. If it's the same car, you're right that the car is not original and was rebuilt. The ad states "The only change to this Trans Am was the 3 times the students painted it."

Drew

iTrader: (58)

There are some setups that are just hated by enthusiasts... Early carbed/turbo cars from the 80's and CFI are the prime examples. CFI might go down as popular with collectors, but by the time it happens there won't be many left. Thirdgens really get zero respect, but it might be more likely in the Y-body world.

hardon85

The one red flag I see is the seat plastic when there was none on the car in the original pictures but in the barret jackson ad it has it, I don't know if that is a big deal to anyone or not but to me they make it look like it's never been used since it still has the plastic but it obviously is not original. I also think it's kind of pathetic that a car that's almost 30 years old and is still basically brand new (in some people's opinion) only brings about the same amount of money as it did when it was new. I guess this is good for us as I also believe these cars will be collector cars but that may be 10-15 years away yet. But anyway cool story and it is pretty cool to see a car that so many people here thought was nothing more than a parts car end up on barret jackson.

scottmoyer

If the car's history were fully disclosed at the auction, that in and of itself would limit the value. Remember the 4 mile IROC-Z. It sold for $26k on eBay because it WAS original and known to be in original state. The economy is down and I noticed a lot of cars at the auction sell for less than I thought they would. This is also not the big Scottsdale BJ auction. The sale price of cars sold at the Palm Beach auction are always lower also. Scottsdale is all a show and people just throwing money around to show off.

foodtree

Guess what guys? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=390284508475&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#vi-content

Looks like a dealership bought the car. Shame they don't say anything about the real history of it!

KMK454

They may not know; it'd be interesting to see their reaction if they saw this thread and how far the car came from day 1 until now.

simo

I sent them an email with some of the photos from this thread and the link to this thread.

I'm sure they did not know the true history of this car when they bid on it at BJ and they thought they were buying a cherry low mileage Trans Am.

I had informed BJ of this thread and they had the opportunity to verify the car but as with the JFK US Navy Ambulance, it may be all about the money.

BJ Auctions = Buyer Beware

It will be interesting if the current owner/seller will reply back to me or this thread.......

'87IROCZOWNER69

iTrader: (1)

It's pretty funny they think the car is all original. They think it's been in this condition for the past 25+ years. But hey it looks really nice now!

GeeJenn91RSV8

Someone else will buy it thinking that it's original.........and the story goes on........

SMOKIN92RS

Yes...the story goes on. As it very well may for quite some time.

However, something that caught my eye. Look at the pictures on the current eBay ad. Picture #40 to be exact. "Original with 240 miles" How is that possible when the Odometer says 240.7 and the trip right under it says 344.5????

Not trying to take anything away from the car, as it looks very good now. But that one picture threw me for a loop...

simo

As for the trip odometer you push and spin the **** on the trip odometer and the digits start to line up as you turn it to until they all line up to the highest number shown and you keep spinning it until it gets to all 00000.0

sonjaab

Why does the hood dome sticker say 5.0 HO?

simo

Maybe has the Phoenix Graphix Stripe/Decal Kit installed after paint which includes the 5.0 HO Hood Decals.........

Phoenix Graphix 1983 Trans Am Decal Set

Dens71TA

iTrader: (5)

The car has been repainted. Reproduction decal sets come with the 5.0L decal. If you look at the original pics on page 1 of this thread you'll see that this car isn't suppose to have the turbo bulge decal either.

simo

Good Eye, I forgot about that..........

avilla20

hmm just started reading into this story and its an interestingly sad story, its irritating when this happens especially with bj. i keep on reading about it has the original plastic on the seats and floor, which is sad because the detail department were i work uses that same plastic and puts it on all the used cars.....sad sad overpriced fire bird, same situation with that white boss 429 they just sold at scottsdale, anyone notice when they did that quick overview on it the consigner said he found it as an old drag racer and restored it. it did look nice and original like if it rolled off the production line when it wasnt, yet it was referred to as original time and time again.....B-j strikes again

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It sure seems like this car keeps getting dumped as soon as the new owner finds out it's not what it's supposed to be. If we all didn't see the before pics we wouldn't judge it so harshly. Makes a person wonder how many other cars have been "restored" like this one and no one catches it because they never saw the before pics.

SMOKIN92RS

Ahhh...thank you. I didn't know that about the older cars. I'm still young so everything I have ever driven resets to 000.0 when you push it in hahaha. Thanks again for the info.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Given the car's history as an unoriginal, you may as well just drive it. The 4 mile IROC is original, so sure--make that a trailer queen.

But this car's been damaged, vandalized, repaired, repainted several times, etc. etc.

In this particular case, the mileage doesn't really do much for it. A 200 mile car is still a 200 mile car, and it's got some value because of that and I'm sure it would drive like a new car, but at the end of the day it's been through the ringer so many times you may as well just consider it a super low mileage car that you shouldn't be too afraid to drive; if it gets hit, oh well, it's been hit and repainted before.

For this isolated case I'd say buy it and enjoy it.

avilla20

.....not at that price i wont.....

KMK454

Right now, it seems the only thing that makes one third gen worth a ton of money is mileage. A low-mile, original survivor gets significantly more money than one that's closing in on 100k even if both are in mint condition. Add in a few rare options on the low-mile survivor and it sweetens the deal.

We still have a long way to go before third gens restored to mint condition are valuable for what they are regardless of mileage and use. A lot of those "all original" and "numbers matching" cars at BJ were at one point a pile of scrap metal on which all of the VIN stampings happened to match. Throw in a rotisserie restoration, and yes, you have an original, numbers matching car. The car is valuable for what it is and for the quality of its resoration. The original components would, for the most part, be there, but with the amount of refinishing and replacing required, saying the car is "original" is more like saying, "We replicated how it rolled off the factory line using what still existed (see the matching VINs?) and replacing and repairing what didn't (see the new paint, seals, trim, etc?)." First gen Camaros are are the point where you could revive the scrap heap and bring serious money. Third gens aren't there and may never be.

My car has low mileage, but I don't really care. I sought a working low-mile car so it would need little work. I'm driving it and keeping it as long as I can; it's to enjoy, not to preserve and save for the next guy.

I hope somebody buys this Firebird and drives it.

White'89

iTrader: (8)

They took out the odometer pic...that seems fishy.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

as said i would just buy it and drive it, though at that price, i would much rather get an 05-06 GTO or a G8

or that SS silverado.

but anywho i thought the lowest miled thirdgen was the 82 Pace car (replica maybe?) that had 2 or 3 miles.

Jaime-TA-84

iTrader: (1)

This car is still being sold.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ponti...fCarsQ5fTrucks

oldschool

In the Ebay ad it looks to be missing the little covers for the locking storage compartment lid hinges, and the front air dam, otherwise seems complete. The air dams usually were installed at the dealership, and since this bird never made it there in 83', I guess that's allowable. I would like to have seen the original 12 inch gold bird back on the hood as opposed to the one on the power dome, but I can't argue with the resto.

okfoz

A few things to chew on.
1) The Hood scoop, should it say 5.0 Liter H.O. if it is a CFI car?
2) The windshield molding, it is soooo much wider than the original.

John

lmidden

i saw a video of a 1985 camaro izoc z28 with 4.3 miles still has the plastic on the interior http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCK7N2SgJjE

oldschool

I would agree, the 5.0 Liter H.O. should not be there on a CFI car. The windshield molding looks wider and a lighter color than the original. This may be the result of a glass shop using a generic molding when a new glass went in after the paint job. The GM service replacement molding for the third generation F-car is nearly identical to the original.

okfoz

I am almost sure that the correct original molding is no longer available, it was about 1/4" to 5/16" wide, then the later cars starting in 1991 got a wider 3/8" wide trim piece as in many cases there was a gap in the corners at the top of the windshield from the narrower 1/4" or 5/a6" wide piece. More recently I have seen the even wider 1/2" or so that is really waaay too wide IMHO...

A few years back I actually bought an OEM GM trim piece for my convertible it is on the shelf so when I go to paint it, or if I ever needed a new windshield I would have it... But it too is the wider 3/8" or so wide piece...

I am not entirely sure why the old trim piece is N/A but it kind of appears that way or glass shops are not willing to get the narrow stuff due to complaints... I remember at one point you could even get a faux chrome piece that would work... My 83 Riv had the same black extrusion piece, but the Oldsmobile and the Cadillac had a chrome piece... When my windshield broke I had them use the chrome one... It lasted all of 2 years before it looked like crap tho.

To be honest I am going on memory here, I will have to measure my original trim piece on my 89 for those of you who are die-hard restorers... but 5/16" seems to stick out on me...

oldschool

Correct, the GM service windshield molding for our cars is 3/8.

lunati397

the lowest milage I have ever seen was a 1992 special edition 6 speed car it was blue with white stripes and had 1800 miles on it and lived in a bubble it was immaculate

Brock Lee

I don't know if coming from a school helps. I went to a vo-tech high school. The auto mechanics department had 3 cars: a 70's Gremlin, 70's Firebird, and an early 80's Escort. All were donated when new. Those cars never moved. Old yearbooks showed them in the same spots. Maybe they moved once in a while to clean the floor, but that was it. Several times a year the engines would be completely disassembled by the class and put back together. If the car didn't run, they would have to troubleshoot the problem. The bodies had wear and tear from kids leaning on them. The auto body department had nothing to do with these cars. They had plenty of students cars and outside work.

So while it is low mileage, how many times has it been apart? How well has it been put back together? How much faith would you put into bolt holes that have bolts torqued and removed literally hundreds of times? This engine has seen wear, just not the conventional kind.

Big&BadGTA

iTrader: (1)

Love how the car now has plastic on the seats. Some doofus may think it's original. lol