burnout88

Hey guys, found this 90 1LE with only 95 orig. miles on it at the Barrett Jackson aution this month. Claiming to be 1 of 34 made. Looks like it still has the plastic on the seats. I wonder what it will sell for.

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...&aid=403&pop=0

Also found this 90 1LE 5.7 with 10k
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...&aid=403&pop=0

86 IROC with only 183 orig. miles
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...&aid=403&pop=0

83 T/A crossfire with only 215 orig. miles
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/appli...&aid=403&pop=0

Krik

iTrader: (4)

Will be very interesting to see what they bring.

david068513

iTrader: (2)

blue car is listed as a 5.7 and 5 speed manual...it must be a 305 car...

Very nice cars. this will be interesting.

92RS(real slow)

I would literary kill for that blue 90 1LE

burnout88

It's a typo. If you read the ad details it states 5.0 and vin engine code is an F.

Dartht33bagger

There was 2 92 Z28 convertables on the scottsdale auction last year I think. Both only had 392 miles and both were in perfect condition. Sold for $60k I think, so $30k a car.

Good to see third gens popping up on these auctions more often. Gets old seeing the same 67-69 Camaros constantly.

GTAwheelman

yeah but then guys with POS 3rd gens will think they can sell theirs and make a fortune

eseibel67

Too bad about the 83 crossfire. Still has the seat wrappers on, but has been painted 3 times. By students?

After 3 paint jobs it probably looks like it was done by third graders. Good for GM to donate the car, but what a shame.

simo

Here are two threads on this 1983 Trans Am.

1983 Trans Am as it was before repair

Previous BJ Auction

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

All cars go for sale midweek while big days at B-J are Friday and Saturday.

My guess is 90 blue will go for about $25k, red 90 about $20k, 86 will go for $15k and the T/A for about $10k.

Just my $.02

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I'm guessing the blue one will fetch a bit north of $25k, and the red one will go for over $30k. The Maroon $86 will go for $20k give or take, it's not that desirable being a castrated '86, and it could use new headlights, originality be damned--they are junk. I suspect there are other small issues with that car. Does anyone know its semi-trailer story?

The T/A won't bring much, $10k give or take because those paint jobs just kill it.

burnout88

The T/A in the past at Barrett Jackson sold for $17K. The last owners did a restore on the car.

NufNuffZ28

iTrader: (10)

I wonder why the 86 has no fog lights?

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Speaking of low-mileage third gens, here's a total cream puff...I'd pick this up in a heartbeat if I lived in a southern state. That interior is sweet.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevr...t_16371wt_1167

EDIT: The more I look at it, the more I want it...I bet it would garner 3x the attention of a 25k mile IROC at shows.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I'd say that car has enough non-stock details (pinstripes, stripes, aircleaner decal, chrome tips, etc) to kill half the fun of it. Also I doubt it'd get as much attention at a show as any Z28/Iroc. True the Z is more common but people just aren't as interested in base models. The bid would be a lot higher if it were a Z.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Was it not possible to get any type of stripes/pinstripes on a sport coupe?

The tips and air cleaner decal are easily removable, though.

I agree, people aren't as interested, and the bid would be higher if it was a Z, but the unique factor of that car would be what would get it more attention at a show.

You just don't see base models in nice shape, because they were usually ordered with the intent to be someone's daily driver, probably the most car the person could afford, whereas a higher-end IROC was often times ordered by someone financially better off who didn't need to use the car as a daily; hence why we now see all these super low mileage IROCs coming out of the woodwork, in a ratio well over 20:1 of IROC:base

The base model is cool, because it's a base model in a sea of run of the mill red IROCs, IMO. Don't get me wrong I'd love a red IROC too, but this car is just cool. I doubt the car will ever see the high side of $10k, but it sure would be a neat little car to take to the Sunday night cruise. That interior rocks.

EDIT: One interior concern though, is that the lower portion of the dash on the passenger side looks like it's been painted? Looks a bit glossy/uneven.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

The car in general just looks a little off to me. After a while, you just know what looks right, and that car looks wrong to me. I don't really feel like digging to see if all the details that look wrong are correct or not. At any rate, I like Sport Coupes, but I've had a few of them and know the response they usually receive. They made about a gazillion of them with LG4's, and most people can't stand them. People don't lust after a Sport Coupe like they lust after an Iroc. Most people I knew with Sport Coupes lusted after the Z28 they wish they'd bought, or could have afforded.

CamaroIROC88350

iTrader: (1)

The problem I've came across when looking for low mileage 3rd Gen's is that for one thing, these cars only had room for 5 digits instead of 6 like the 1990 and newer cars had on the odometer. Without paperwork PROVING the mileage and it never being rolled back I find it amazing how 75% of 3rd Gen's I have seen on Craigslist or other sites where people are trying to sell their Camaro's, IROC's especially or Firebird's almost always claim they have lower miles.

I almost never believe it because when I got my car it said 23,xxx miles on it. I said no way, it's gotta be 123,xxx miles. 120k miles on a almost 25 year old car isn't high mileage in my opinion but compared to a real 50,000 mileage IROC it is.

scottmoyer

You can usually tell the difference between a 20k mile car and a 120k mile car. Even an extremely clean 120k mile car will show signs of wear. It would be very difficult to really pass off a high mileage car as an extremely low mile car unless a lot of money was put into it to get it there.

Most people advertising their car as low mileage are considering it low miles because of the 12k-15k mile average. Any 20 year old car with less than 250k miles could be considered low miles. It really isn't, but that's advertising for ya.

Krik

iTrader: (4)

I have a friend, and a fellow board poster, that owns a car lot. Sometimes he will get a second generation Trans Am and have it fixed up and get it looking nice. A local radio station bought one of these cars, to give away, and really put some money into getting it super nice. The guy that won advertised it for sale with 28k miles (when it was 128k). My buddy called him and told him it wasn't 28k miles, but the guy didn't care. He wanted the most money possible. Carfax doesn't go that far back, so he ripped someone off.

ville_valo_05

yeah i know what you mean, i could easily tell someone my trans am has 46k orig miles on it but it's rolled over lol 146k, i can't stand people like that

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

True, you can always tell when a car's got 25k or 150k. It's not too hard to tell, even when looking at a cream puff high mileage car.

Jason E

Mileage is something you can just TELL, especially with these cars. It can't always be shown in pictures, either...the drive tells the story.

My Trans Am looks pretty rough. The paint is faded, the top of the rear seat is split and needs to be repaired, the leather on the steering wheel is loose, the radio is dead. It was sold to me claiming 30,000 miles, but looked like 130k miles.

Then I drove it...and that's where the truth was told. There is 1 rattle in the entire car. When you look under it, there is virtually no rust anywhere (rare for a 25 year old ANYTHING in New England)...just a little on the subframe and suspension components. The steering is completely tight. The ride quality is excellent, with no feeling of looseness. The doors shut with a solid "thud." The headlights go up and down quickly and smoothly. The interior shows minimal wear, aside from the steering wheel. Almost all of the white markings are still on the door lock switches on the driver's side...all of it is on the passenger switch. The seats look like brand new, aside from the split on the rear top due to sun fade. I believe the story that the car is a low mile original that the original owner left outside for years on end.

Then I look at a car like my IROC, with 21,000 miles on it. Yes, it has quite a few rattles because of the t-tops. But the white is still on the switches...the turn signal stalk...it had Gatorbacks on it with 1/2 tread left...everything looks and feels absolutely brand new inside. There is absolutely no way this car has had an odometer roll. Even the HVAC control has a "tightness" to its sliding motion completely absent in my 119k mile RS.

I know a lot of people on here say mileage doesn't matter. My .02 is I 100% disagree...it definitely matters. Yes, we've seen cars like the 46k mile Z03 in the other thread that look terrible. But, I'd be willing to bet that like my TA, there's a myriad of things he DOESN'T have to fix due to its low mileage. My RS has given me 15 times the trouble my TA has, because it has 4x the mileage on it. And yet, it looked much better than the TA when I got it!

I'll take low mileage any day...even the TA repainted 3 times!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Mileage is just a number. 50k miles driven by an older, responsible driver, with a long commute, is much easier on a car then 10k miles by a 17 year old kid primarily around town treating every stoplight like a drag strip. That's why there are 50k mile cars that are much rougher then 130k mile cars.

Part of the problem is that a lot of people voicing their opinions about mileage are basing their opinion off of very few cars, and very limited experience. After you've driven a hundred of these cars you start to get a better idea about what makes one nicer then another. In general, hard top thirdgens keep that new car feel longer. Without those holes cut in the roof, the body doesn't flex, things don't rattle loose, and doors don't lose their fit. Likewise later cars feel better then earlier cars. At 100k miles an 82 or 83 really feels it's age, while a 91 or 92 can feel a lot better. It's just the nature of the improving technologies over the production run.

A car that's driven rarely, but over longer distances and stored in a garage at night instead of driven everyday for lots of short distances and parked in an apartment parking lot every night, is going to be in nicer condition regardless of what the odometer says.

Worse yet, it's so EASY to change the mileage in these cars... I can set any thirdgen odometer to any number you want, and you'd never know I was in there. Carfax is worthless too, I've got one car that they show a mileage discrepancy while I owned the car!!! Look at the overall condition and judge it for yourself. Odometer figures are just for bragging rights, they mean squat in the real world.

Krik

iTrader: (4)

Remind me not to buy a car from you lol.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I would agree with the above...my car's been stored every winter since new, and garaged it's whole life year-round. But it's also been driven 150k miles in those twenty summers. When I got it with 116k on it, the original owner had barely driven it the past few years since she had had a son; at 116k, compounded with sitting in the garage a good bit, it took a LONG time to sort out the issues. It was one thing after another. First the starter, then the alternator, then the radiator, then the EGR valve, then any and every other sensor, MAP included, and every accessory sans waterpump. Throw in fouled plugs and clogged injectors and a bad cat, and the thing ran like crap for so long, as soon as I fixed one thing, something else broke. But I stayed on top of it, and brought it back mechanically to where it was on day one. Oddly enough, in my 12 years I've only needed to replace one suspension component, which either means the previous owner went through all that right before I bought it, or I've been extremely lucky to get 150k miles out of the suspension, especially given northern potholes that persist all summer. Some of these issues were from sitting, but most of them were from mileage. Now, it's dead reliable; all issues are sorted, I know every nut and bolt on the car, and I have no doubt about it's reliability sans the occasional heat soak, which can probably be attributed to GMs low torque starters that suck. But nonetheless, the mileage is/was evident. While all of my interior switches miraculously show all yellow printing, there's a little wear on the gear indicator on the shift plate (can't find a NOS one, would like to see a review on the Calssic repro), the door alarm is kinda sketchy when you leave the lights on and open the door, and the brights flickr if the steering wheel is in the lowest position (I'm a short guy, maybe a pinched wire?), and the doors are definitely rattle traps at 150k miles.

At the same time I agree with this; now at 150k miles, my car runs better than most F-bodies that are probably in the 70k-80k range where a whole slew of repairs are imminent. One thing that I DO enjoy about the high mileage, is I can go out on a Fri/Sat night and cruise it from 6 PM til 2 AM, never stopping but for food, and I don't feel one bit bad about rolling miles on it and enjoying it, like I would with a low mileage time capsule. That is the one benefit of a high mileage car that you just can't beat. Mileage is just a number, but it really becomes apparent as just a number when the car has gone through a frame off resto. But, if I wanted a cream puff, I would still seek out the lowest mileage car I could from a value/preservation standpoint because there's something to be said about a car wearing all of it's original factory parts.

As an aside--if you roll back the odometer on 90-92 cars, you'll get silver lines in between the numbers, indicating it's been tampered with.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

It comes in handy when swapping stock 85mph speedometers for 140mph speedometers, and then back again. The point is that there's no tamper proof feature regardless of what's claimed in the owners manual. The odometer is just another part that can be changed.

Wrong. Almost universally that's what the owners manuals claim, but go ahead and take one apart, there's nothing silver in there. Besides that you don't even have to roll one back. You can roll it forward, or just take it apart, or swap it with one from another car. If you buy a car based on the number on the dash, ignoring all else, you're just begging to be taken advantage of.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

Of the 3 thirdgens i have owned, the 85 z28 I have now is the tightest and rattle free car of the 3. i have opened it up a few times but just loves the way it cruises on the highway. Son and I took it to the UT-UConn baskettball game yesterday (35 mile round trip) and we loved it with no radio blaring.

My 91 Rs 305 tbi 5 speed with t-tops i owned from when it had 12k miles till I sold it 7 years later with 110k miles. It was my everyday driver and gave me no major problems. But it did rattle more and had more squeeks.

My 92 Z28 had 46k miles when I got it but it had more squeeks and rattles due to believing it had the 350 TPI and previous owners opened it up more as I did plus i was younger.

I disagree that "mileage is just a number", it is an indication of the cars life on the road.

Yes, there is a difference betwen highway miles versus stop and go driving versus a 17 year old kid driving it to high school versus a 55 year old bank executuve driving it to the office.

But mileage shows what has been done to the car over the its life since it rolled off the assembly line.

If a mid 80's car has 10k miles and driven once a week for a few miles versus the same car with 180k miles, there is a difference so mileage "IS JUST NOT A NUMBER".

Just my $.02!!

58mark

iTrader: (3)

Drew, I did try to roll a 3rd gen odometer once, I was switching them out and I wanted to match what I already had. Sure enough, as soon as I turned the numbers silver lines appeared between the numbers. if I can find it, I'll take a pic

soonercrew

the 86 is the real deal... as i have seen the car... i also know where it was stolen from and where it was stored. unfortunately, i wasnt able to get my hands on the cash before the other owner bought it. very nice car! imo, will do low-mid 20's... BUT, a few drunks with deep pockets looking at the car they drove in high school and it could fetch upwards of 30k (in all seriousness)... lol...

-AO-

That 86 IROC just sold for $28K.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

just saw it!!!

Wow!!

paulo57509

What's good about these low mileage cars are the photographs. If one ever needs to see what or how something was assembled (like wire loom routing) the photos make for some good reference material.

Dennis-Z28

iTrader: (1)

woo hoo, now I can ask more $$ for my ride!

IMissMy86TA

and all of this you can go to jail for.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

I can't believe that '86 went for that price, it's not even that nice looking IMO.

...not to mention, it's an '86...

Drew

iTrader: (58)

Actually, the legal ramifications are different from one locality to another. In most cases it's only illegal to lower the mileage. In my case it wasn't illegal since I was setting new odometers to represent the mileage of the original odometer they were replacing. It's every bit as illegal to operate a vehicle with a broken speedometer cable, malfunctioning VSS, or any other condition that causes the odometer not to read correctly. At any rate, our cars are mileage exempt anyway. No one is going to serve time for adjusting the mileage on a 20 year old Camaro, or adjusting the mileage on a junk odometer sitting on the bench.

No joke... Sure it has low mileage, but the car looks well used to me.

Dartht33bagger

The car looked nice to me, it seemed like it was worth the 28k to me

scottmoyer

I also saw the 87 IROC-Z convertible sold for over $12,600k. It was an LG4 car with no mileage listed. Not to mention, the engine was rebuilt!

The 1990 1LE in blue just sold for $54k

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

90 IROC 1LE with 95 milesmwas about to come on and they went to commercial.

Still no respect for 3rd gens.

And they had to show the ugly paint scheme 98 corvette pace car instead.

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

It went for $54k. With buyers premium, it goes for $59400!!

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

the 83 crossfire T/A with 215 miles went for $14500

Rumblin70SS

My car just went up a $1000 dollars!

David M

And to add to the frustration, at my house during that commercial the doorbell rang.... some guy peddling coupon books!! Jeez dude what timing.

Of all the third-gens that blue '90 1LE would have been the car to see. When that Corvette was on the block you could see the nose of the 1LE.
I was waiting in anticipation but noooooo. Thanks SPEED you blew it!!

topduarte

iTrader: (8)

[QUOTE=Drew;4793818]Actually, the legal ramifications are different from one locality to another. In most cases it's only illegal to lower the mileage. In my case it wasn't illegal since I was setting new odometers to represent the mileage of the original odometer they were replacing. It's every bit as illegal to operate a vehicle with a broken speedometer cable, malfunctioning VSS, or any other condition that causes the odometer not to read correctly. At any rate, our cars are mileage exempt anyway. No one is going to serve time for adjusting the mileage on a 20 year old Camaro, or adjusting the mileage on a junk odometer sitting on the bench.

Tampering with odometers is illegal whether the cars are exempt or not.

Drew, I just do not understand why you cannot get it that mileage affects the value of the car whether it is 1 year old or 30 years old.

I do not know whay you "KEEP ON PUTTING THESE THIRDGENS DOWN"??

Yes I did do caps because comments like this upset me on why you say 1LE's are overrated, low mileage thirdgens don't meant crap, etc.

Just my $.02, but you are hurting our thirdgen cars with your so called "EXPERT" comments more than helping.

Sorry for the rant, but this pisses me off!!

Over and out from Texas!

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I'm sorry, I think you've mistaken me for someone who cares about your opinion.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

On second thought... I can't sleep, so I'll go ahead and waste some time supporting my argument.

Anyone with questions about the legality of changing an odometer should research the law behind odometer fraud. Specifically you'll want to check your local DMV's website, and research the Federal Truth in Mileage Act. The TiMA can be reviewed online at http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/49/VI/C/327/32701

To paraphrase, here are the important parts and what they mean...

Then on the next page you'll see the really important part, which is relevant to what I did...

If you actually read the law, instead of spouting off like an idiot and calling out a seasoned member in public, you'll see by the wording that it mostly applies to dealers, auction companies, distributors, etc. And also that setting the odometer on a replacement part to match the original odometer is completely permissible.

In addition Kansas and South Dakota Odometer law both state that no crime is committed if the odometer shows the same mileage after repair as it did before repair. Further, Kansas feels that any vehicle more then 10 years doesn't apply. I believe the same to apply in the state of South Dakota, but I'm not going to waste my time finding the code.

Moving on...

I understand the effect mileage has on car values. That's not the point. The point is that mileage is only important under certain conditions. True condition means much more then a silly number on a dash. A car with 10,000 miles on the odometer can be totaled, rebuilt, have the title washed and be resold as "Actual miles!", but it's still a once wrecked car. The mileage as reflected by the odometer can be easily changed. Regardless of legal issues, people will still swap an 85mph cluster for a 140mph cluster without a second thought about the law. The trick is to see past the odometer and look at the cars true condition before paying a premium.

I don't put thirdgens down. I share my honest opinion, and while I'm not always a glass half full kinda guy, my opinion still has as much right to be here as anyone else's. I think 1LE's have a halo around here (and in car magazines, and other forums), and in reality they're just a G92 car with big brakes and no air conditioning. Sorry, I'm not impressed. I'll turn off my A/C and run the same times or better down the dragstrip in my $4,500 Formula as the $60k 90 1LE in this thread. Except I can actually drive my Formula in November and if I get caught in a winter storm I'm not destroying my investment.

Many things affect the value of thirdgens, my comments here on this forum are the least of which. I could say that every one of these cars is worth a million dollars, and that super clean examples are as rare as hen's teeth, but the truth is undeniable. I'm really sorry you don't share my opinion, and can't respect my opinion, but I'm not going to change my opinion or how I conduct myself on this forum so you can feel good about yourself. If it pains you so much to read what I have to say, don't read it. You can't change my opinion, but you can put me on your ignore list, or just close the window.

For the record, I enjoy Thirdgens. I just don't enjoy them so much that I get the rose colored glasses effect. If you want a crash course in reality, go ahead and try to sell a decent thirdgen, or strip a parts car on it's way to the crusher, list the parts for sale, and just see for yourself how other people value your stuff.

KMK454

Yup, I was watching and very excited to see the 1LE go... I was guessing 35k since the 86 of all things went for 28k (!?!?), but SPEED left for a commercial break. The 1LE brought more money than one of the worst Corvettes ever made, but we got to watch the purple and yellow disaster instead.

Regardless, makes me feel better about my car! Maybe I shouldn't be driving it anymore... hmm.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

$60k?

Curious to see if the red one will bring more than it's $34k autotrader price.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

The real question is: is ANY 305 worth $60k?

No. Not it is not. Not even close. I don't care how rare it is. It's a 305 FFS.

That car isn't worth $40k today, and everyone here knows I'm an optimist about the value of these cars if there ever was one.

I'm comfortable with the idea of these cars being in the $30k-$35k bracket. $60k is just outrageous though.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, my 1990 with a 305 is worth maybe $6k on a good, good day.