pentiuman

There's a lot of info on the rear hatch pull down problems, 2 designs, optional (?) electric release, and I'm confused. Been studying pics and posts. Have more answers and questions! "Hold my hand" please. I've tried to do my homework.

Problem: 91 Fbird GTA I recently got - motorized rear hatch pull-down assembly is unassembled, broken plastic shards missing, nylon guides missing (?) and not functioning. Previous idiot owner taped hatch closed after trying to fix it w/ screws, glue and what looks like a sheet metal scrap! The hatch's (key) lock cylinder is also broken, and I currently have the Acc fuse out, due to a defective power antenna that keeps running. (Guess I need to replace or unplug the antenna if the hatch uses the same fuse). Between the previous owners rigging, GM's design change, the optional (?) hatch release switch (in dash) and solenoid in the rear, people's use of parts terms, and the improved (different) parts that lonsal sells at Top Down Solutions, (which I'm sure is excellent, but expensive), I'm confused!

I can probably figure out how it goes together, if I have the right parts and a little help. I have the factory manual, but it's light on info and pics, only covers 1 version apparently. Don't know if the hatch assembly was assembled, which part of it would be defective. So, I decided to bid on an entire (used) unit on Ebay, at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...ayphotohosting

I wasn't going to bother you guys w/ questions until after I had received and tried to install it and knew more. BUT that's when I discovered GM changed design mid year, I'm not sure which one I have. I don't see a part # on the motor housing. Also, the Ebay one has a manual hatch release, not solenoid hatch release like mine. I need to figure this out, so if the Ebay one's different a different ver. and/or won't work with my solenoid release on his lock cylinder, I can potentially allow myself to be outbid, and change plans. I studied Lon's technical repair guide on TGO at: https://www.thirdgen.org/tech/hatchpulldown.pdf

1. Which model design do I have, 1st or 2nd? My solenoid hatch assembly looks like figure 1 on page 5. My motor looks like Figure 5 on page 6. The motor housing itself (covering the round end of the motor) is metal. However, one view of my hatch assembly has a lot of clear plastic and some white or tan plastic! Is this the criteria that distinguishes the different versions? Lon's guide for 88-91 models, pages 5-7 says it covers 1st (older?) design. So apparently, the 1st, older design had a metal motor housing, right? Again, it's confusing, because some parts of the motor's housing (?) are also plastic.

So, a plastic motor housing is the 2nd, newer design, and it's better / stronger than the older metal design??? Guess that's what seems counterintuitive to me. (That plastic would be stronger or better than metal).

At Lon's website link below for a reinforced motor housing, he says, "...If your plastic motor housing is attached with 2 screws to the motor, then you'll need to order the new-style motor and integral motor housing (TDS p/n 201170)."
http://www.top-downsolutions.com/pro...products_id=54
Well, the metal motor's round cover uses 2 screws, but that's not the housing, right?
2. Which model design is the Ebay one? It has to be the older, metal one, right? I asked the Ebayer a general question and he replied, "Hi there The part changed styles halfway through the 91 model year, if you have a plastic mount frame instead of metal then yours will be different."
I'm confused. Is it the frame or housing that's either plastic or metal??? Please explain this to me, as if I was a child. I've looked and looked at pictures, my car, books, and instructions, over and over!

3. What parts are needed to switch from the old, metal model version, to the newer, better, plastic version? Just the motor, and motor housing? (If I don't get outbid, I'll honor my current bid and go with the Ebay's older, metal design. In that case, I'll use it until it breaks.

4. Can I use my electric solenoid release with the Ebays motor assembly and cylinder lock? (Can I take off my old, broken cylinder lock from the release cable and use the rest?) In other words, Do I have to choose between using the Ebayers manual release and good cylinder lock, OR my electric solenoid release but broken key cylinder lock?

5. What advantage is an electric solenoid release vs. a manual release? (I assume with an electric solenoid release you can open your hatch from inside the car, and w/ a manual release, you have to open your hatch with a key from the outside. If so, on a manual release, what good is an electric hatch anyway? Not having to push down harder to close your hatch?

-Yeah, I know several people have given up on the fancy smancy options and welded or bolted there assembly to operate like an old trunk. But I have no welder, and I have all the electric parts - may as well get it working. I'll buy a repair or replacement kit from Lon, if I don't get the Ebay one/ or when it breaks. But I still need to know which version I have, to do that. THANKS!

pentiuman

Here's some pics of my old rear pull down hatch motor and assembly. Disregard the white string in the pic, and the little peice of sheetmetal.

pentiuman

So, did a search on Ebay and found a rear hatch pull down motor assembly which is remarkably different than mine on my 91 GTA. This Ebay one has the brown / tanish plastic housing / mount material. Is this the 2nd style? If so, it's quite easy to tell the difference.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CAMAR...QQcmdZViewItem

Jay

iTrader: (2)

That is the 2nd design for the mid 91 switch.
I believe there are 2 slightly different version of the 1st design though. It looks like you have 1st design, 1st version, but I would think you should have the 2nd version.
I think it's divided 86-87, and 88-91.5. Maybe your original was replaced.

The electric release can easily be added to one that only has manual release, been there done that. It's just a matter of bolting it on. The manual release is on all of them, it's how the key opens the hatch. As for the key cylinders, if I remember right, they are interchangeable only IF they are from the same style car, Camaro vs Firebird. The Firebird has a longer cylinder than the Camaro, due to the taillight housing.

I don't think that the 91.5-92 can be used on the older cars. I think it mounts differently.