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Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....old ones sold!

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Old 12-13-2011, 06:59 PM
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Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....old ones sold!

Looks like I've outgrown my 1 3/4" long tube headers that I built three years ago. Debating between 1 7/8" and 2" primaries. I have several u-bend of each sitting in the shop, just not sure if the big ones would hurt my n/a performance or not. Have 900 trouble free miles on the old ones this year alone. Would like to fund the new set by selling off the original set first. Looking for $400 for them, which was the cost to build from the flanges to bends to collectors and rings. Free labor basically. These are mild steel and were welded with a mig, then checked for leaks. The welds are not pretty like a TIG set and some welds were ground down here or there to clean them up slightly then painted with high temp paint.


Anyone done back to back testing on the bigger tube headers or have data to support going large picks up extra?

Last edited by xpndbl3; 12-19-2011 at 01:34 AM.
Old 12-15-2011, 09:17 AM
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Re: Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....and selling the old ones

haha....were you just watching my thread to throw these up after i bought my mid-tubes?

a free bump for ya. any pictures?
Old 12-15-2011, 09:42 AM
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Re: Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....and selling the old ones

Do a step header 1 7/8 to 2"

But from a highly experienced engine builder, its been claimed that 1 3/4" headers of proper design with 3" collectors will be good to 650 hp. Theres not much to be gained if anything at all in going to larger headers if you are under 650hp. This is primarily on sbc's but likely some big blocks and other sb varieties like ford/mopar. I'm not sure but he has 50+ years of experience, hundreds of dyno tests.
Most of the 1 & 7/8 headers will come withy a 3.50 collector. Every time I have done a back to back test, the larger headers will loose about 15 to 17 pounds of torque, and the same in HP in the higher RPM range. Even up at around 700 HP, the smaller header is better up till about 7000 RPM. The higher the engine can rev up to, the better the chance of the bigger header showing an improvement. Now if you can rev up to 8000, the larger header will look much better yet.

Many people OVER THINK this whole header size thing. On the dyno, it is pretty much black and white when you compare differant sizes. Many times, it is much harder to see gains or losses in the car, because too many other things come into play. My experiance in the car has been that the collector length is the most important thing you can change. I have seen where the priomary length is way too long, and this can loose you as much as 150 HP=== THAT IS CORRECT=With SB Chevys, anything close to 28 to 30 inch primarys will worl pretty good. Case in point. About 20 years ago, an engine customer brought his car headers to run with the engine I had just built for his car. They were Hooker super comp, 1.75 by 3.00 ( very normal stuff )I noticed that the primary pipes looked very long, so I measured them. They were all about 37 to 38 inches long ( TOO LONG )all the Hooker catalogs listed them at 30 inches long ( WRONG ) This little miss information would be responsible fo a 50 HORSEPOWER LOSS . I called Hooker, and they said I was the first one to ever notice that=== HOW BOUT THAT. I cut the guys primary pipes back to the last bend, which made them about 5 to 6 inches shorter, and this picked up about 33 HP over the longer 37 to 38 length. Lesson learned here, double check everything, and dont just go by what the catalog ( or what someone tells you )

Collector length has more to do with power below the point of max torque, say from 2500 to 5000 RPM, If you have the wrong converter stall speed, the collector can be a big help
However I've seen results where larger headers have performed well, but that may have been a result of header collector design instead of primary tube size. I think money spent in a high velocity merge collector piece like from SPD exhaust or similar company could yeild more results at the same primary tube size, rather than just a simple collector design and larger tubes.

Another guy once said this:
According to Jim McFarland, regarding header primary pipe size.................Exhaust system Peak Torque RPM = (Primary Pipe ID Area x 88,200) / Single Cylinder Volume in cu. in.
And the induction side of the engine could very well have a different Peak Torque RPM as a function of runner & port area. Average the two, and the engine dyno may show some pleasant results.
Then again, a 14 second car doesnt need more than a 1 5/8" primary

Last edited by Orr89RocZ; 12-15-2011 at 09:45 AM.
Old 12-15-2011, 09:57 AM
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Re: Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....and selling the old ones

id like a set of 1 7/8 good sir... ill be expecting them next week right?
Old 12-15-2011, 11:28 AM
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Re: Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....and selling the old ones

Originally Posted by STREETDEMON
haha....were you just watching my thread to throw these up after i bought my mid-tubes?

a free bump for ya. any pictures?
pics are in the lsx classifieds section

Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
Do a step header 1 7/8 to 2"


Then again, a 14 second car doesnt need more than a 1 5/8" primary
That was the plan for header sizing with a 3.5" collector, and I know being in the 14s life happens pretty quickly Most of the racers I talk to pick up ET and mph by swapping to bigger tubes, even on the max effort cam only ls1 builds. I'm shifting around 7000 with more cubes and compression so figured its time as well. I tried playing with collector length on my headers and where the 3 bolt flange for my true duals is located is where it ran best uncapped. Just bored, its winter and figured if I could sell the old ones off to buy the materials to build the new ones, why not you know?

Originally Posted by 1nasty86
id like a set of 1 7/8 good sir... ill be expecting them next week right?
haha its winter time I work slower, have a few side jobs for people wanting to go fast, then the mini tubs in my car that I started in the fabrication board section, world of wheels coming up in march if we decide to do that again....busy busy.
Old 12-15-2011, 11:40 AM
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Re: Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....and selling the old ones

Originally Posted by xpndbl3
pics are in the lsx classifieds section
haha its winter time I work slower, have a few side jobs for people wanting to go fast, then the mini tubs in my car that I started in the fabrication board section, world of wheels coming up in march if we decide to do that again....busy busy.
i just walked outside in a short sleeve t shirt and shorts.. its 73.7 degrees on my front porch... perfect making headers weather. drive down here, make the headers and drive back.. problem solved.
Old 12-16-2011, 02:32 AM
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Re: Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....and selling the old ones

Well still waiting on someone to pick up the old ones but decided to spend 4 hours cleaning up the garage, doing some vacuuming under the car from my mini tub cutting mess and count how many U-bends I have for the new project. Guess I'll order up my header flanges shortly and get started on the first couple of inches of each tube at least.


Couldn't imagine how much more I'd get done if I spent winter in the south with the warm temps. But as it is, I have around 90 days to knock out some pretty detailed changes before world of wheels if we enter again. It's a big pain in the butt though and completely drains you after 5 days of it.
Old 12-19-2011, 06:28 PM
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Re: Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....old ones sold!

ordered up the new flanges, mandrel u-bends, collectors, collector rings and some gaskets....WHEW prices went up again. $377 for the first order and that isn't even enough piping to build it 100%. Let's not forget wire, welding gas, and other incidentals. I didn't want to over order since the prices are higher than the original set I built. What a difference 4 years makes.
Old 12-19-2011, 08:57 PM
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Re: Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....old ones sold!

so next week i can get mine?
Old 12-19-2011, 09:17 PM
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Re: Going to fab up some bigger tube headers now....old ones sold!

sure payment in full now, delivery in 4-6months.
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