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LTX and LSXPutting LT1s, LS1s, and their variants into Third Gens is becoming more popular. This board is for those who are doing and have done the swaps so they can discuss all of their technical aspects including repairs, swap info, and performance upgrades.
Anyone who follows me on youtube knows I picked up an L83 for my Trans Am build. I figured I’ll post everything up being I tend to be a little slow putting the video out due to editing. Anyway my plan for this car is to make a sleeper. Now I know a real “sleeper” wouldn’t be a Camaro or Trans Am, but instead a prius or mini van or something. But with that being said these cars seem to have a bad reputation of being neglected and slow in stock form. By that I mean the only really clean thirdgens I come across near me are always at a car show. The daily’s/ projects seen on the street are usually beat to s**t. I think as long as it looks the part of being almost 100% stock it could be classified as a sleeper.
I started gutting the interior last week, and I should have the motor out by this weekend. I’m probably going to pull the dash as well so I can remove that moldy firewall insulation. This car has a BAD wet/mildew smell, so I really want all of the old stuff removed/replaced. Once the motor is out I’ll be test fitting the BMR tubular k member a viewer sent me so I can dry fit the motor and see whats not gonna clear the hood.
The new motor is from a 2016 Yukon. I got this one from a wrecking yard in CT with 65,000 miles on it. Its an all aluminum 5.3 with direct injection. Its puts out around 355hp and I believe compression is around 11:1. I paid 2450.00 with no core charge. Came with everything in the photos, complete pullout with accessories, harness, pcm, even the gas pedal. The plan is to boost this thing a little later. I’m thinking twins with an auto trans. I might pull the heads for a port job as I’ve been collaborating with my tuner, Tunetime Performance, and they do have a cnc file for these heads. I’m on the fence about running the stock pcm or a holley system. I really like the monitoring the holley system offers in my Camaro, but we’re talking around 2000-2500 for a gen v kit, with no 6l80e support at this time. I’m on the fence between a SUPER BUILT 4l60e, or a 6l80e. It really depends on which harness/pcm I decide to go with. I decided against a 4l80e for the boring 1st gear ratio and extra weight. Plus the 60e is basically a bolt in swap and Sonnax sells everything needed to make one hold up to 1000hp. If I decide on a 6l80e, the gear ratios alone will make up for the extra weight imo. Yeah theres gonna be some fab work involved, and it may make building a y pipe more difficult being its a fat b*stard, but the 4l80e seems to be similar in girth. I think the 6l80e is just taller as well.
Keeping with the sleeper plan I previously installed some Koni Yellows as well as Ls1 front brakes and Formula wheels to clear them. All of these videos are available on my channel.
Trans is out! Unfortunately the height of my ceiling won’t allow pulling the engine as trans together. Funny thing is I knew that someone replaced it at one point because it has the speed sensor of a 90’s unit. I confirmed this when 3 of the bell housing bolts were hand tight..
This is going to be a great build. The L83 is rated at 355 but makes a touch over 400 on an engine dyno (Richard Holdner). I think a mild cam swap and some CNC work will add a solid 50 to 100hp. That could be the sweet spot for this car without going overboard with all the items needed to support 700+ hp. I have this engine in my 2016 suburban and have gotten 23mpg on a long trip by myself (its over 6k lbs). I think this little engine will surprise you. I've read the direct injection and DOD stuff is impossible to use when swapping. Too much is integrated into the whole vehicle system. You might want to probe a little more to make sure its doable with a stand alone GM ecu.
The direct injection can actually be used with out much trouble...
I just do not like the mess it makes in the intake-runners and on the valves.
When that garbage builds up... it will cost more power than the fuel economy is worth.
The GM Corvette team did the right thing by reincorporating Port EFI injectors back into the intake manifold to clean-up the mess left by the direct-injection.
If the trucks go with this Dual-Injection system, it will be great!
I think this little engine will surprise you. I've read the direct injection and DOD stuff is impossible to use when swapping. Too much is integrated into the whole vehicle system. You might want to probe a little more to make sure its doable with a stand alone GM ecu.
Thats what I’m not sure about. I need to give Holley a call to see exactly what gets deleted with their system. Tunetime was telling me it will be pretty damn fast with just a tune and 6l80e.
The direct injection can actually be used with out much trouble...
I just do not like the mess it makes in the intake-runners and on the valves.
When that garbage builds up... it will cost more power than the fuel economy is worth.
The GM Corvette team did the right thing by reincorporating Port EFI injectors back into the intake manifold to clean-up the mess left by the direct-injection.
If the trucks go with this Dual-Injection system, it will be great!
Are these valves from an L83? I find it hard to believe GM would have a DI system that gunks this bad.
Are these valves from an L83? I find it hard to believe GM would have a DI system that gunks this bad.
That shot is clearly not a L83, L86 or LT1, two valves in the port, but I don't *believe* that rules out GM. I haven't seen much of a problem concerning the small blocks, even after the 5+ years they've been DI. PCV and oil maintenance seems to be the big factors. So it's possible to have a gunked engine even if it's not the norm. My L83 with 110K looked fairly good especially since it is an ex-Uhaul truck. It's funny to see on the truck boards where people panicked and installed catch cans and whatever else while people who have done nothing but regular maintaining don't have an issue.
It'd be interesting to see what Matt's engine looks like.
Motors out! Before I can go any further I need to do some serious cleaning up and find a place to stash my new boat anchor. I’m gonna try to get the l83 on the scale tomorrow to see the weight difference. Any guesses?
That shot is clearly not a L83, L86 or LT1, two valves in the port, but I don't *believe* that rules out GM. I haven't seen much of a problem concerning the small blocks, even after the 5+ years they've been DI. PCV and oil maintenance seems to be the big factors. So it's possible to have a gunked engine even if it's not the norm. My L83 with 110K looked fairly good especially since it is an ex-Uhaul truck. It's funny to see on the truck boards where people panicked and installed catch cans and whatever else while people who have done nothing but regular maintaining don't have an issue.
It'd be interesting to see what Matt's engine looks like.
Correct.
The majority of issues have been with people leasing these vehicles and doing no maintenance at all.
Engines come in with 20,000 miles and never had an oil change, never filled the level back to full... nothing.
At 40,000+ the carbon build-up is causing misfiring and catalyst damage.
Keeping with the sleeper plan I previously installed some Koni Yellows as well as Ls1 front brakes and Formula wheels to clear them. All of these videos are available on my channel.
So then the Formula rims clear the LS1 brakes? Why, are they 16"?
Motors out! Before I can go any further I need to do some serious cleaning up and find a place to stash my new boat anchor. I’m gonna try to get the l83 on the scale tomorrow to see the weight difference. Any guesses?
With accessories and exhaust manifolds i'd say 485.
I have 18's on my Formula now But I do like these 16"s you have that came with my car. I want a big brake solution so I can put the originals back on if ever. You confirmed it can be done. Thanks!
Well I finally decided on the trans. I picked up this 4l65e off of facebook today. Paid 200.00 for it with 3rd gear slipping. I was really leaning toward a 6l80e but ultimately I think the 4l60e will be a lot easier and still do what I need it to. I spoke with Sonnax and they recommended everything in their stage 3 trans. I’m going with their top of the line input drum, billet output shaft, upgraded sprags, basically any hard part upgrade out there is going into this thing. I’m also really happy that I’ll be able to keep the torque arm on the trans. I recently put a crossmember mounted arm in my Camaro and now I get a lot of diff noise and some vibration. I have my buddys charger’s nag1 in pieces right now, so once thats back together I’ll have this thing on the bench getting torn down.
You got that transmission at a good/ fair core price, so it doesn't matter...
But I hate to see people charging more money for a 4L65E vs a 4L60E (especially if it has to be rebuilt, there is no benefit).
The 5-pinion planets actually break more easily than the 4-pinion planets.
We (GM) went to the 5-pinion planets solely as a cost savings change... the metallurgy of the 5-pinion planets is crap in comparison.
That 9CND Broadcast code has been recycled over... neither code should be a 4L65E.
A case electrical connector with a Grey and Green color combination, would make the transmission a 1999 4L60E (2wd silverado/ sierra).
A case electrical connector with a Blue and Brown color combination, would make the transmission a 2009 4L70E (2wd silverado/ sierra).
Yeah that is surprising! I’m guessing the overall beefier design of these engines which attributes to their output and longevity probably evens out. Not a bad problem to have lol.
Off subject but do you know what the early LS1 weighed? Similar to this?
You got that transmission at a good/ fair core price, so it doesn't matter...
But I hate to see people charging more money for a 4L65E vs a 4L60E (especially if it has to be rebuilt, there is no benefit).
The 5-pinion planets actually break more easily than the 4-pinion planets.
We (GM) went to the 5-pinion planets solely as a cost savings change... the metallurgy of the 5-pinion planets is crap in comparison.
That 9CND Broadcast code has been recycled over... neither code should be a 4L65E.
A case electrical connector with a Grey and Green color combination, would make the transmission a 1999 4L60E (2wd silverado/ sierra).
A case electrical connector with a Blue and Brown color combination, would make the transmission a 2009 4L70E (2wd silverado/ sierra).
Ok good to know. He had it listed as a 60e, I just figured it was a 65 from the 9CND code.
Edit: Just checked the connector, it’s brown and blue.
The best output-shafts that I have used, were from two-wheel drive OEM 4L60E two-piece case transmissions and were cryo-treated.
I have actually had bad-luck with the 4L65E shafts breaking after cryo-treatment.
The heat-treatment of the 65E shaft is superior to the 60E shaft... but does not respond well to cryo-treatment.
I did a Gen V LT1 in my 88 IROC. Lotsa trial and error but I got the engine running good. Having problems with driveline vibration. Not sure if its driveshaft or rear related. Anyway, if you have any questions, I may be able to answer.
I did a Gen V LT1 in my 88 IROC. Lotsa trial and error but I got the engine running good. Having problems with driveline vibration. Not sure if its driveshaft or rear related. Anyway, if you have any questions, I may be able to answer.
Thanks I took a look at your thread. I’m having a vibration as well after swapping the 5.3 for a 6.0 in my Camaro. During the swap I also moved my torque arm from the trans to the frame using the same Holley crossmember in your build. I’m 99% sure thats probably the issue as the only change behind the motor was moving the torque arm. I also get some substantial whine at certain speeds, and I also think thats resonating through the tubular torque arm. I decided to live with it for now. I’m hoping when I gut the interior and dynamat everything with new thick carpet it will quiet down a bit.
Also I noticed you used high mount accessories. I’m REALLY hoping I can get the truck or at least a holley low mount accessory drive to clear. I’m planning on twins up front so I can’t run a high mount setup. I’m planning on using a tubular K member so my real fear is clearance with the idler arm.
Thanks I took a look at your thread. I’m having a vibration as well after swapping the 5.3 for a 6.0 in my Camaro. During the swap I also moved my torque arm from the trans to the frame using the same Holley crossmember in your build. I’m 99% sure thats probably the issue as the only change behind the motor was moving the torque arm. I also get some substantial whine at certain speeds, and I also think thats resonating through the tubular torque arm. I decided to live with it for now. I’m hoping when I gut the interior and dynamat everything with new thick carpet it will quiet down a bit.
Also I noticed you used high mount accessories. I’m REALLY hoping I can get the truck or at least a holley low mount accessory drive to clear. I’m planning on twins up front so I can’t run a high mount setup. I’m planning on using a tubular K member so my real fear is clearance with the idler arm.
I suspect my vibration is one of three possibilities. The first could be the driveshaft is messed up. Been too busy to take it to a shop for a second opinion. I took it to one place but I am not sure they knew what they are doing. The second could be the Pinion Angles. Trans points down about 6 degrees so I replaced the torque arm with a QA1 adjustable unit and adjusted the rear up about 5 degrees. That big tranny might need to have the floor boards cut for clearance. The third could be the rear. There seems to be a lot of play in the pinion.
I think the main clearance issues are the low mount AC compressor and maybe the power steering pump. Even on my high mount setup, the PS pump pulley is real close to the steering box. I am pretty sure there are plenty of info on the LS swaps with turbos
Thanks I took a look at your thread. I’m having a vibration as well after swapping the 5.3 for a 6.0 in my Camaro. During the swap I also moved my torque arm from the trans to the frame using the same Holley crossmember in your build. I’m 99% sure thats probably the issue as the only change behind the motor was moving the torque arm. I also get some substantial whine at certain speeds, and I also think thats resonating through the tubular torque arm. I decided to live with it for now. I’m hoping when I gut the interior and dynamat everything with new thick carpet it will quiet down a bit.
Also I noticed you used high mount accessories. I’m REALLY hoping I can get the truck or at least a holley low mount accessory drive to clear. I’m planning on twins up front so I can’t run a high mount setup. I’m planning on using a tubular K member so my real fear is clearance with the idler arm.
I noticed in one of the earlier posts on this thread that you mentioned exhaust. There really shouldn't be much fabricating if you have the holley crossmember. The dual exhaust that I used from holley brings the pipes right up to the middle of the trans. I used the stock cats to keep the smell down but if you use the truck headers or stock manifolds, then there is just some short pipes to fabricate. Passenger side is a little tight.
I noticed in one of the earlier posts on this thread that you mentioned exhaust. There really shouldn't be much fabricating if you have the holley crossmember. The dual exhaust that I used from holley brings the pipes right up to the middle of the trans. I used the stock cats to keep the smell down but if you use the truck headers or stock manifolds, then there is just some short pipes to fabricate. Passenger side is a little tight.
I’m probably going to do manifolds with my own y pipe. The car should only be n/a for a little while, money permitting, so I don’t want to get holley headers just to rip them out for the turbo setup. For the exhaust I’ll most likely fab my own being the Holley/Hooker Blackheart system only comes in 2.5 inch piping that I know of.
Pulled the bmr k member out of storage today. I got the springs and spindles removed this morning. Hoping to have the k member out and this guy somewhat fitted tomorrow. I have a Holley 302-22 oil pan on the way as well as a set of dirty dingo mount adapters. I went for the non adjustable mounts that position the gen v in the same spot as an ls. None of the adjustable mounts would clear the low mount compressor. Lets hope for the best!
K member is out and I got the bmr unit loosely installed. For some reason the two rear most holes refuse to line up together so I’m not sure how I want to remedy this. The subscriber that sent it to me had the same issue which is why it sat around and he never installed it. Another weird thing is all the other k member holes are elongated while the two rear ones are not. I’m considering ovaling them out, or possibly cutting them off and re-welding them in their aligned spots after centering the rest of the k member and tightening it down at the other 4 mounting points. I ordered a set of plum bobs and string, so I’ll have to wait till Monday to see how this turns out. Fun fact, this whole setup weighs 30lbs less over the stock k member.
Video went up today! My oil pan and mount adapters came in this week, so next week’s task will be test fitting the l83 and see what isn’t going to get along with the 30 year old chassis..
Sooooo I changed my mind.. I grabbed this 6l80e off of facebook for 600 bucks today. Its a rwd from a 2013 Tahoe and the seller said it was working when pulled with about 160k on it. I’m planning on tearing it down for a refresh anyway so mileage is useless. After I did some digging on tgo and read through some comments, I decided to go for it. A viewer installed one if these in his car behind an ls motor without raising the tunnel and was also able to use a 4l60e crossmember. I was also reading through roysatikas thread as he seemed to be successful doing this as well without cutting the tunnel.
Its a big boy for sure, but doesn’t appear to be any longer than the 60e. Weigh in shows its 45lbs heavier than the 60/70e.
09-22-2020, 06:44 PM
