92superram

I know there are several of you guys that run 9's and 10's I would just like to know what setup you are using to get there. I have been doing a lot of thinking about what kind of setup i should build to put my car in the low 10's. how much hp would this take? I am stuck on a miniram sb with some kind of power adder and/or large displacement, and a t56. There are just so many different options. I don't want to spend more than 5000 on the engine, and i want to get over 20mpg on the highway.
Any suggestions and/or comments will be greatly appreciated.

NJ SPEEDER

how much power it takes has a lot to do with how much your car weighs. igure to see solid 10's you are gonna need at least 120-124mph depending on your gearing and counting on good hook. in an average weight f-body(figure 3300-3400lbs race weight) that means putting soemwhere in the range of 450-500hp to teh wheels.
to get the mileage you want and the performance you want you are gonna need to look into a power adder. a big nitrous shot can work for ya or if you have the money and tiem to set it up a turbo is an awesome way to go.

later
tim

AlkyIROC

Agreed.

My current setup hopefully will get me in the 10's this year at altitude and should have no problems doing it at a lower elevation track. Although my engine could easily be dropped into a street legal car, my car could in no way be street legal or get good gas mileage. I think I'm now at around 4-5 mpg.

The easiest way to get in the 10's is to put the car on an extreme diet. Get the weight down below 3000 pounds and it becomes easier to go fast.

Pushing a 3500 pound car into the 10's is a lot harder on parts than pushing a 3000 pound car.

My engine in a 2500 pound dragster should easily run low 10's.

On the other end of the scale if you have a heavy vehicle 3800+ you need a lot of HP to run 10's. To move such a heavy car you also need a lot of beefed up parts to handle all that power.

Chronos_Titan

If you want to run 10's and get 20 mph a 3000lb car is a really good weigh to start. That is the only weigh that i see that happening. A really wicked small block will have bad manners a big block will get bad milage. Hot Rod built up an engine in an 82 Camaro that they figure was pushing 750 hp. It was a small block with 8 to 1 pistons with a 20psi blower. That would do it but that is going to take a lot really expensive parts. You are looking at a $3000 super, $500 on pistons, $2500 new bowtie block, $2500 on heads, rotating assembly going to cost $2000 or better. Plus all the money to make this car hook up. Plus you would need a full 10pt cage. Your dreams outweigh your budget at this time.
Maybe if you would try a really wicked small block and then a lot of nitrous you could do it. I really doubt the engine would last though. Try talking to the guys on the power adder board. I would say though you would need at least a 400 hp shot of nitrous and good luck trying to get a regular small block to take that.
Too much ambition not near enough cash flow. Buy a crotch rocket.

92superram

Thanks for the info, I don't plan on building the engine till next summer. I just need ideas. I plan on doing a lot of weight reduction soon, and putting the six speed in over the winter. With that i hope to get into mid 12's. I am trying to decide if it would be worth the money to buy a supercharger, or just build a large displacement engine and give up a lot of gas mileage, or just do both.
one more question, will the stock crank on a 4bolt block be able to handle a 700hp blown and juiced engine.

P.S. the $5000 was only counting engine parts. Car hooks great with my current setup, and with slicks, i think it could handle much more power. The roll cage is obvious, because i couldn't get away with running 10's without one. A 9inch or 12bolt rear is also going to be part of the project. Please elaborate on the 750hp small block thing. you didn't mention the engine size, intake, or anything else about it except 20psi.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Most people say the stock crank is good for not more than like 400hp or so..

I think the 20mpg thing is a dream tho.. I'm lucky if I get 15..

-- Joe

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

It's possible to hit the 10's with a street car, anything's possible as long as you have the money and desire. Just look at this guy and his LS1, he's in the 10's and drove it to the track, that's what I'm trying to do also, and many others.

http://www.ls1tech.com/ubb/cgi-bin/u...c;f=5;t=000582


The hardest thing to do is match up the right parts to get you there. Lots of trial and error, money, frustration, etc.

The stock eliminator guys do it all the time, and they concentrate on weight reduction, gearing, and maximizing existing components. It is possible.

AlkyIROC

Stockers can only reduce weight to the factory shipping weight. It's not just weight reduction but weight relocation. If they can remove 100 pounds off the front and relocate it to the rear then it helps them and they're still not underweight. For us it's all weight reduction.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Whys that Steve?

AlkyIROC

I'm trying to get my car down to 2800 pounds no matter where I can remove it. Why would I want to put weight back into it? If I'm a little nose heavy I'm not going to add weight in the back to balance it out. I have no weight restrictions like a stocker.

83procamaro

I can run 10.50s with 650 hp in a 3200 lb. 83 camaro, but no way do i get 20 mpg. your crank will break with 750 hp and if you leave your car nose heavy, then you cant transfer enough wieght to the rear to hook up...

AlkyIROC

Get a smaller picture. Not everyone has broadband.

I'm curious. How did you fit the tall tire into the wheel well with the ground effects?

92superram

I think it's tubbed.

laiky

I could tell you this, you will need cubes consider a 406 or better, no reason to get a BB.
You will need EFI no way to get mileage without it.
The t56 will work well from a mileage standpoint, but racing a street manual requires more skill and replacemnet parts than an auto or racing manual.
Look into recent magazine buildups, You will need to build torque more than HP to get a streatable 10 second 20mpg car.
CHP had an article on an emmissionslegal mid 12 second camaro. Its along way from 10's but the idea is right.
Some kind of power adder like a turbo of Centrifugal SC is the way to go, keep your cam timing reasonable and you can probably run pretty lean on the highway. Tailor the engine around the Turbo or SC

laiky

Oh yeah don't forget the weight loss!!!

Chronos_Titan

I am trying to remember the Hot Rod engine.
New bowtie block.
Bowtie Heads fully ported and polished.
Big Cam
Some sort of Intercooled Centrifical supercharger.
ARP everything holding it together.
It was a 377. 4.00 * 3.75 stroke.
Huge injectors and fuel pump.
The key was bowtie block and heads. Then a really freakin big super. Sorry though dont remember which one.

AlkyIROC

Oh I agree that it's tubbed but with a tire that tall it still has a hard time fitting inside the outer fender area. If you look at IROC ground effects, the front and rear fiberglass pieces wrap around inside the fenders. If you have very tall tires, how do you enlarge the wheel openings with the fiberglass effects in the way?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I was like 3360 with me in it last year. I think I added about 200lbs with mods this year..

-- Joe

92superram

Did you guys check out that LS1 board. It's amaizing. 346cube naturally aspirated 10.6sec car. By the way, I have decided to go with a 406 miniram on juice.
This is from a website i found:

406 Cubic Inches: L98 motor

Grimes 406, from Hi-Tech Performance December 1995

400 block, four bolt .030 over

Lunati forged 4340 steel crank 3.75"

Lunati Pro Mod 6" steel rods

Wiseco reverse-dome forged pistons

Chevrolet stage 6 heads, ported by Champion Racing, 62cc chambers, 10:1 comp, 2.02/1.60"

TPIS Miniram intake, 58mm throttle body

Lunati custom hydraulic roller cam, 232/232 @ .050, lift unknown, lobe sep unknown

RPM TQ HP
3600 452 310
3800 463 335
4000 469 357
4200 487 389
4400 496 416
4600 499 437
4800 503 460
5000 508 483
5200 499 494
5400 496 510
5600 489 521
5700 484 525
5800 471 520
5900 457 514

As you can see from the numbers above, the motor is not a torque monster. The combination of the large displacement, large heads, roller cam, and the intake system make good torque in a small block package. Using the Miniram instead of a SuperRam increases top end HP at the expense of torque lower down in the RPMs. Still, this motor is very strong, producing over 500 lbs of torque.
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With a similar engine, 150hp shot, and weight reductions, I defenatly think low 10's arn't out of the question.

Supercharging is good and all, but adding 50lbs to the very front of my car doesn't that good, I want to get my car close to 50/50 weigh distribution for handling, so i'd rather have a bottle in the back. I don't think i will have to worry about any street races around here where i would need more that 525hp to win, but nitrous is like insurance.

83procamaro

I stretched the fenderwell about 2", but if i would have set the tires in another 1 1/2 or 2" I wouldnt have had to do that. We just cut the ground effects down and you cant even tell its stretched. :rockon: :rockon: