25THRSS

just like it says, which is better, post your opinions and reasons

Synapsis

Auto. Going down the track you don't disconnect your power from the driveline between gears, and autos usually shift faster. Autos are also more consistent E/T wise.

IROCZTWENTYGR8

iTrader: (1)

What Synapsis said. Auto.

Rob116

Well, for ease of driving, it's clearly auto, but if your mods are limited by a strict budget and you're a good driver, a stick produces quite a bit less driveline power loss and it's lighter. However... ?

AlkyIROC

Auto. 2 speed powerglide. Only 1 shift point going down the track. A lot of Super class cars will shift to high gear around the 60' mark then do a brute hp pull in high gear all the way down the track.

Tom84L69

Auto for drag racing a race car with mods. Stock, a stick is faster, but we've been through this before.

my88IrocZ

Auto, great for drag racing, add a stall and you are just as fast as a stick car Example: ( both cars stock) new LS1 camaro 6spd Vs. an Auto, stick will usually win, same race but the auto gets stall converter than it is real close, or the auto wins.I used the new ones for example because you couldn't get a 3rd gen 350 5 or 6spd.

Axoid

I love sticks and will never on a car with an auto, but I'll agree that autos are better for drag racing.

GTATransAM

Autos man, just slam the gas and go! Well it takes a little more skill to make a perfect launch, but u get the idea.

Inwo

My vote also goes for Auto. Sure for a daily driver stick is more fun to drive and you have more "control" over your power but when you're drag racing you don't want to fiddle with the risk of missing a shift etc. Stock vs stock stick wins but once you start modding it's all over. I like the arugment that "You need a stall and transbrake to equal a stock stick!!" that someone was making on a certain other board... As if somehow race clutches are cheap Either way my vote goes for auto.

383backinblack

Here we go again.....

well if both cars are stock, the auto is gonna need alot of help for to hole-shot the stick.

Steven87 i think you would probably agree with me on this one,

this thread started someplace else as what launched better. If we arent dealing with a dedicated race car, something that is driven on the street most of the time, where you absolutely dont want a high stall or a transbrake the manual is alot better.

autos are, more consistant, faster shifting, etc

manuals are more controlled, less parasitic, and without any modification to the auto, allow you to launch alot harder.

the basic question in the first thread was stock for stock, what can launch harder?
seriously people, are we talking about trying to foot-brake a newer automatic camaro to launch at like 3000rpm or better? thats amatuer stuff. that aint really healthy for the car. Thats why they invented stall converters and transbrakes.

i vote stick on this one all the way

If i was bracket racer, my money would be on a 'glide....but im not

383backinblack

oh ya, how about this

what about a lenco? pro stockers love those things.....alot of guys we race with the truck run lencos too. Those things are kinda weird

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Lenco has an "automatic" version now.

Stock T-5's will die if subjected to regular track use, even behind a stock 305. You can't really do anything to them to beef them up and avoid that. You can beef up a TH700, though, and the Powerglide has become racing legend (although scorned when first introduced).

AlkyIROC

ProStock use Lencos because by the rulebook they have to manually shift the gears. If they had a choice they would be automatics or multistage clutch, high gear only transmissions like top fuel and funny car.

25THRSS

My vote goes to an auto as well, i have a 2000 z28 and off the line my auto will get the holeshot on a 6 speed, after my torque converter I'll horribly rape a 6 speed off the line, not to mention be more consistant, shift quicker, be able to program my shift points with the new electronically controlled transmissions, and be in my power band quicker from a roll, only advantage i see a manual has might be fun factor, but thats up to the driver

383backinblack

this thread and poll are pointless,

because everyone including myself agrees with you, at least the way this question was worded.

if you take it the way the argument started the other night, its a different story

25THRSS

how is this in any way worded differently. It was a very straight up question, "which is better for drag racing?", simple enough, how would you like me to make it any more simple?

Tom84L69

How about, "Is a new Corvette 6 speed with a good driver faster than an automatic Corvette with a good driver?"

I know you say your auto LS1 is faster than a 6 speed, but give me a 6 speed LS1 and I will beat you off the line if your car is stock! It all depends on how you drive them!!!

25THRSS

this isnt a which is faster stock poll, this is a which is better for drag racing, and i'm gonna go out ona limb here and venture to say that most people who drag race dont have "stock" cars. And you cant just compare a 6 speed to an auto, its in the gearing also ls1 corvettes either have the 2.73 rear i think or the 3.15 rear. The z06 has 3.73 gears and has a 6 speed because it was biult as a road racer, not a drag racer, and road racers need sticks to keep them in their power band better than an auto in the twisties. Now i have already admitted that a 6 speed stock for stock is faster than an auto by a very small margin, but once the mods start coming I would much rather prefer an auto. Understand?

25THRSS

I'm also gonna take a wild guess here and say that very few people on this board take their car to an autocross track. Most of them drag race and for drag racing an automatic transmission is far better than a manual transmission. Your opinion is that you think your 5 speed is better than an automatic for drag racing, opinion noted, thank you

Tom84L69

I've driven plenty of LS1s and no, it's not much of a different beast than my L69. In fact, I have beaten LS1s with my L69. As i said before, it all depends on the driver. Give me a couple practice runs and I can beat you. The 6 speed is simply faster.

A corvette Z06 comes with 3.42 gears, a 3.73 won't fit in the housing. Now you finally bring up a good point about the axle ratios. You can get a 3.15 in an auto vette and a 3.42 in a 6 speed. Same situation for the 2002 camaro. 3.08 for an auto and 3.42 for a 6 speed.

If you look at my first post, I said an auto is better for consistent drag racing, I answered your qusetion. Then I rephrased the question and answered that. stock for stock a stick is faster. I know you asked which is better for drag racing but you didn't specify the car. It depends!

Tom84L69

"Now i have already admitted that a 6 speed stock for stock is faster than an auto by a very small margin, but once the mods start coming I would much rather prefer an auto. Understand?"

Yep, got it, just wanted you to say a stock stick is faster than a stock auto

Tom84L69

did i say it was stock? Damn dude...

230/230 cam with 110 LSA
Ported heads and intake (port matched and bowl porting), milled heads for 10.1:1 CR
Non CC quadrajet
Headers
3 angle valve job
No emissions equipment
No computer
No Cat
Flowmaster with dynomax piping
Stock but rebuilt bottom end.
3.73 posi (broken) I said I could launch hard
T5 (broken) ditto

383backinblack

come on now, lets be honest,

this is a completely different topic than the thread that got locked the other night, whether you admit it or not. this thread asks whats a better transmission for drag racing. well if your competing regularly, or your a bracket racer there is no question that an automatic is a better choice.

but thats not where this argument started....it was started in another thread that got locked, and it came over to here.

the question was whether you can launch harder with a manual or an automatic.

heres a quote from 25thrss:

"I'm not ignorant, its very true, all u have to do is put my 2000 automatic z28 up against another 6 speed ls1 car and i'll get him off the line every single time, automatics are soooooo much better off the line than a manual car. From a roll its a different story, but off the line i'll take an auto any time"

the answer to this question is very very simple.

with both transmissions not containing any optional equipment the manual can launch far far harder than an automatic can.

why?

because there is direct driveline engagement,
- no fluid couple
- much faster engagement is possible
- less slipage
- much less power required to turn the transmission
- much less rotating mass
- You choose your stall speed (drop the clutch at whateverRPM you want to)
- shift at whatever RPM you want to

Heres a link to the locked thread where this argument started:
https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=160030

and for the record 25thrss, im not trying rip on you here, im trying to get to the truth as i always am. Its just a fact that a regular auto vs. a manual, the manual can launch harder.

people dont use automatics in drag racing because of their amazing ability off the line ( they can be made to have that ability though) they use them for their simplicity, consistency, and in many cases their durability. The are actually easier on alot of driveline parts because of the torque converter which is a fluid coupling.

5.0mustang

I have had both in the same car, and it was like this.

AOD: 2400 stall converter.
14.18 @ 97.2

T-5: Pro 5.0 shifter.
13.90 @ 99.3

The auto was with the 1-D-1 shifting, and the 5-speed was granny shifted. The car remained the same between the runs except the AOD had a 70mm MAM and 24lb injectors, while the 5-speed had stock MAM and stock injectors.

In me eyes (or at least my car) the 5-speed was bette, and this summer with better driving should prove to be even better!

Synapsis

What's the weight difference between the AOD and the T5?

383backinblack

well if im not sure of the numbers,

but if you've ever wrestled transmissions around under a car, you know that the difference between an auto and a manual is huge.

a t5 is extremely light, id say they cant weigh more than 75lbs with fluid. my tremec tko is alot heavier and it weighs about 98lbs with fluid in it.

the ford trannies im not sure, but a GM auto is REALLY heavy....had a few on my chest under cars, and they suck to move around. a manual is pretty easy to manipulate....they are usually alot smaller in size too.....i dunno about the 6 speeds though, those are pretty wide.

5.0 apparently you understands what im talking about here, anyone else?

5.0mustang

Believe me the AOD was much heavier and we actually had to do the 5-speed twice (thank *** we didn't have to do the AOD twice). At the track the weight difference was not very much. With the AOD I ran with no back seat or passenger seat and with the stick I ran with all the seats! It weighed a little less with the 5-speed, so that may be a factor!

Plus the AOD in stock form is crap. It needs a manual valve body, and a good converter (transbrake would also be nice) to be as good as a 5-speed!

25THRSS

GM autos are a lot better than ford autos. Yeah autos are heavier than manuals, and your right about them needing a few modifications to make them faster, but theres really not much you can do to a manual to make it any better, what you get is what you get and thats it. A little higher stall and your whooping manuals all day long, but I'm not sure about the ford trannys since i'm a gm guy I just know that the fords dont come close to the gm autos

V6camaroman

for an all out drag car an auto is much better but and fast street driven car i think stick is better. i have an auto in my bird and can whip my friends camaro thats stick all day long. my car is fast with the auto but i know if i swap a manual in there it will be faster just because of the weight difference and the better ability to control the cars horse power.

25THRSS

actually an auto is easier to control a car's horsepower

383backinblack

no its not really. its a set it and forget it solution which lends itself to consistancy excellently......

i can shift my car at any RPM i want in any gear, ya cant do that with an auto unless its a manual valve body or it can read your mind.

an auto makes it so you dont HAVE TO control the power......you dont have that option. a manual allows you far more control.


see your getting closer, your almost right this time.....
there is alot you can do to make it better.......just not to the transmission.....its called becoming a better driver. People that dont like manual transmissions are usually people that arent very capable with them, and therefore get frustrated to easy. So by improving your skills theres alot you can do to make your manual alot better. Believe me, the average driver is no where near what you would call "good" theres always room for improvement.

there isnt any skill really involved with an automatic....just put it in gear and go. even if your shifting it manually, theres no clutch or room for error unless you shift at the wrong rpm in which case your a dumbass.

25THRSS

lol, i can see that i will never change your mind because you're one of those people that beleves that because you have something makes it better, and ofcourse your a perfect driver with a stick, i mean isnt everyone with a stick a great driver and can outlaunch an automatic and shift faster? Dude come on, like you said before a 6 speed LS1 would whoop an auto, its not even close right? I hope you can appreciate sarcasm. Just admit that an automatic is better for drag racing, thats all i was saying. You have a 383 which obviously isnt stock, and no offense man but i'm gonna call that you launch at 6,000 rpm and dont spin at all. Thats just not possible even with drag radials, unless your not making crap for power. If I were you i might consider switching to an auto so you wont keep destroying rear ends like you did

25THRSS

and about the skill part, so your saying i can just mash the gas in my ls1 auto and thats it, i just have a perfect run every time, hahaha. one of my first vehicles was an 88 ford broco with a 5 speed and 177,000 miles on it when i got her. Worn out clutch and all i could pull consistant 2.0 sixty foots and chirp gears every time with a stock 140 hp 2.9 liter v6. not too shabby if you ask me. By the way, that thing ran low 18's at around 74 mph, lol. Ive driven and owned several vehicles, both auto and stick, and for drag racing auto is just plain better.

383backinblack

you can call BS on me all day long if you want, its not gonna change reality. apparently you dont understand how things work around here, i tried to stay polite but you cant seem to handle that.

your like 18 or 19 years old, so im calling ******* on you for being underexperienced and ignorant. Ive been driving camaros for about 6 years now, and you've been driving cars period for what like 3?

ive owned 4 camaros, 2 were auto and 2 were manual. Im not gonna get an auto, im gonna get a tougher rear end. If i wanted an auto i would have bought another one, and not put a tremec in my car. My pickup truck has th400 in it, the other pickup has a 4l80e and both flatbeds have manuals.

I dont say things because i think what i have is better, i say things because ive driven them ALL and raced in and against the best of both worlds. I KNOW from EXPERIENCE.

the bottom line is if you take 2 people and put them in 2 camaros, one auto and one manual, the manual will outlaunch the auto car, and it will win the race....

says who? says all the independant testing, all the magazine testing....says GM themselves, says just about everyone who has lined them up against their counterpart at the track or on the street. so you can lie to yourself about that all day long, its not gonna change anything.

If i built my car to be a drag car, and thats it....it would have a 'glide in it. but its not just a drag car, its driven almost everyday in the summer time. It spends alot of time crusing around town and at the beach. I built it the way it is because thats how i wanted it, its alot more complex than just drag car.

but the fact remains that identical camaros with an auto and a manual, the manual will always run faster and launch harder less differences in driver.

and all this whining about how "i think its better because thats what i have" well what are you doin? the same goddamn thing, grow some nuts and dont be a hippocrite, thing about what you say before you say it. You think autos launch harder because thats what you have and thats what you THINK everyone else says. so hows that make you different? go back to school junior

383backinblack

oh ya, and if your implying that its easier to drive a manual than it is an automatic your a goddamn retard.

25THRSS

wow man, you need to seriously chill out, what do you run in that 383 that launches at 6,000 rpm, lol?

25THRSS

"but the fact remains that identical camaros with an auto and a manual, the manual will always run faster and launch harder less differences in driver. "


:lala:

383backinblack

now tell me, if you could launch with no wheel spin where would you want to launch the car? where your approaching peak output thats where.

so where did i launch the car? at 6000 cause its tops out the peak around 6500-6600.

no as far as traction goes, you dont seem to understand alot about rear suspension......

the picture that i showed you before of the lift bar setup is not some minor thing......it is extremely hard hitting. Heres another pick from the side.

also, check it out for yourself at http://www.southsidemachine.com

25THRSS

"I dont say things because i think what i have is better, i say things because ive driven them ALL and raced in and against the best of both worlds. I KNOW from EXPERIENCE."

we've got one serious hardcore racer here everyone, he's been up against the best of both worlds

25THRSS

My friend has those same lift bars on his 87 iroc 305 tpi and he cant launch at 6,000 rpm???????????????, not even 5,000 or 4,000????????????????

383backinblack

wow this kid is just like a *****, so im gonna quit now.....before the mods put me on probation like hes gonna be.

IBTL

and as for the hardcore racer thing, ya i might know a thing or two about racing.

383backinblack

get better tires

25THRSS

if he put slicks on then it wouldnt be street legal, which u say ures is used for and launch at 6,000, i'm sorry man, but ive seen guys making descent hp with slicks and a descent suspension and they couldnt launch at anything near that rpm without wheelspin

25THRSS

BTW, whats the picture of the monster truck prove????

383backinblack

well alot of people launch up there, maybe your just not paying attention. spend more time at the track

well MT e/t streets are street legal....and the only difference between them and the ET drags are the 3 grooves, same compound.....there are guys in NMCA running 7's on 10.5 inch tires

if your worried about them on the street its very simple......after you go racing....TAKE THEM OFF and put your regular tires back on.

thats me, and thats where i work when im not at school the truck belongs to JB motorsports. that picture is from proMT in nazareth PA

25THRSS

theres a BIG difference between street legal and streetable, every time i go out and want to race on the street, which is what most people do, its not feasable to keep changing tires all the time on a daily driven car which is what you say yours is, which is also why i dont understand why you have a manual transmission, much easier to drive, and in my opinion, better for daily driving. The only advantage a manual has over an automatic is in road racing. And just to let you know a monster truck has nothing to do with this, its a little bit different than an f body