camarokev400

Im finally finishing putting my car back together, still need axles and brakes for the 9 inch, and a torque converter. What do you guys think it willl run in the quarter im hoping for mid to low 11s. Previously it ran 12.2 with old combo.

Current combo

• 400 block .30 over using 5.7 eagle rods, eagle crank 3.75
• Keith black -17cc dish pistons 10.3-10.8 compresion?
• Dart iron eagle heads 64cc, 200cc runners slightly ported, manley race valves
• upgraded springs to match solid cam, guide plates
• Doug herbert cch2 solid roller camshaft 567 lift, 285adv duration, 244 @.50 110 lobe speration.
• Comp cam solid roller lifters vertical bars
• 1.5 roller rockers
• hurricane singe plane intake > i know this isnt the best intake opinions on a better one air gap possibly?
• converter will be 3500-400 >opionions please...
• TH350 trans race prepped
• car weighs 3280 with me in it
• msd ignition setup 6al
• quick fuel 750dp carb
• ford 9 inch posi 3.89 gear
• 28x10.5 slicks

Desktop dyno which i know isnt very accurate with the roller cam setups says 504hp@5500 and 518torque@4500

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

seems like it'd run mid 11's once you get the tune down and a dead hook. what you done for suspension so far? this could make or break the deal really.

mod313

4.56 gears and 8" converter with 4800 stall along with a nicely set up suspension package should get you around 11.2's at that weight. My 400 package was very similar to yours and ran a best of 11.23 @ 116 with that gear/conv combo.

camarokev400

the suspension is pretty much stock, it has the stock torque arm but i have a fully adjustable torque arm mount, adjustable lower control arms, adjustable panard bar. Front struts are kyb gr2's. Are you talking like a set of 70/30 struts, and drag shocks and springs for a good suspension.? As for the gear ratio i think a 4.56 would be way to much gear wouldnt it.... the motor has peak power at 5500 and drops off by 6000, i was hoping to cross the line around 5500 to 5800. Thats why i went with the 3.89 ratio, i know with the 3.73's in the 10 bolt i was crossing at around 5300 to 5400 running 12.2 at 110 or so. I havent got a converter yet so thats still an option to go with a higher stall i was only thinking 3500-4000 though 4800 would that still be streetable somewhat? as in i can drive it to work every once in awhile and to car shows.

mod313

Keep in mind that the bias ply slick will grow going down track. My 400 had the 2954S Magnum solid cam, Victor jr in take, 750 Speed Demon mech sec carb, 10.4:1 comp, .030 bored block and an old set of 461 heads (67 cc chambers, 2.02 valves and very mild port matck work). Torque curve was dead flat from 3000-6500, shift points were 6800. I may still freshen this thing back up one day after the fun of racing Stock goes away.

camarokev400

so are you saying that i should run a shorter tire then..? I cant find the specs on that cam what lift was it? I havent drove this car yet, ive fired the engine up just before the snow flew and now i am just putting the 9 inch together so im not real sure where the hp an torque rpm will be at but according to the desktop dyno they both die off over 6000. Torque is 433 at 2000 and really starts climbing by 3500 to 493 then peaks at 4500 at 518. And the hp starts at 165 at 2000 and climbs at 3500 to 329 then peaks at 5550 504 horse.

mod313

That cam was a .525 lift int/exh with 294 advertised duration, 248 at .050. that used solid lifters. I don't really trust those desktop dynos much. I can only tell you what my results were. My as raced weight then was 3150 also. The torque curve was from a chassis dyno and the torque number was 550 at the rear wheels. The flat torque curve made for a very strong pulling, consistant motor. Ironically my 305 stocker motor isn't far behind it e.t. wise with an 11.35 @ 115 as a J/SA car (min wt for J is 3345 but I was a whole bunch heavier than that).

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i'm thinking more in the terms of some LCA relocation brackets and subframe connectors first. the 70/30's or 90/10's can come later.

mod313

Lakewood 90/10's up front, Lakewood 50/50's in back, Pete Z bars with Southside Machine lower control arms and a stock torque arm was (and other than the strut/shock package is still the same) the suspension setup.

ross

I think you nailed down your goals ok 11.50-11.30s looks like a good combo. as for the tire try a set of M/T 275-60-15 drag radials I think you will like them at that power level and you will be able to drive it on the street with them. And for brakes Pm me I have a set of used SVO drum brakes that fit late model big ford brg.

88IROC350TPI

You should definitely be 11.50's or better with a combo like that.... Example (which I've posted on here many many times). Friend of mine had a 10.8:1 400, Vortec heads, 244/252 @ 050, .520/.540 110LSA solid, super victor, 750 demon, 4000 stall, and 3.42 gears with 26" drag radials it went 11.60's in a 3500lb car.

There is nothing wrong with a Hurricane intake. Might need to take some time and clean up some casting flash but those intakes work just as good as a Victor Jr.... some magazines claim they work better.

camarokev400

Yeah i really dont trust the desktop dyno either i know just by changing the to a roller cam it gives you stupid hp gains. I was going to get the UMI subframe connectors, i got their adjustable panard bar its a real nice piece. I also have their adjustable lower control arms. What relocation brackets should i get? Ive seen them for the 10 bolts but what about the 9 inch, just get the weld on ones for the 10 bolt? I plan on taking it to the dyno to get tuned this spring so i will post the dyno results on here within a few months. thanks for all the input guys.

From what everyone has said a 4000 stall would be good?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

call the converter company you're going to use and have them build you a serious converter based on specs of your combo. ~4000 would probably be fine, but you'll need to call them to be sure to get the most out of the combo.

i'm using the BMR weld-on lca relocation brackets for my 9". they work great. the guys at BMR know their stuff too. and their brackets are cheaper than the spohn units "for the 9" "

mod313

You may find 4k isn't enough. My original converter for the 400 was a 4k stall and after swapping to a 4800 stall conv the e.t.'s dropped 3+ tenths. If you haven't bought one or settled on brand, call the guys at ATI and have as much info about your car handy when you speak to them.

camarokev400

allright thanks guys. I found the relocation brackets but most of them for the 9 inch all say for moser housings.... the housing that i have was converted over brackets off 10 bolt welded on. so i was guessing if i went with the 10 bolt ones the would work since its the same brackets?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

if it was converted from a 10 bolt, then yeah, you'll need the ones for a 10 bolt. the bmr ones are for either though. they're a nice looking bracket too.

camarokev400

allright, ordered the bmr lca relocation brackets, going to call on the converter this week dont know who im going to go with yet though, i looked on ebay they have some brand ******* performance kinda scares me away right there but it dosent look like a bad converter you guys every hear of them, or anyone using one?


heres the link to them
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GM-TH...spagenameZWDVW

camarokev400

Havent decided on the converter company yet but i need to know a estimate on hp and shift points. I dont know how im going to know this because this combo has never drove down the road yet. Should i just go off of the desktop dyno estimates and hope for the best or what?

skinny z

Lot's a good advice in this thread. If you want to race, listen to the race guys. If you want streetability, you'll probably have to give up some of that quarter mile potential. 4800 stall may be worth a few tenths, (and I believe it) but it's not the easiest to live with if you cruise around a lot.

camarokev400

well i talked to a guy from edge racing converters, saw some guys on here reccomending them on the boards. He told me somewhere around 3400-3600 stall, i told him i was looking at 4000's and he said that was too much if im shifting at 5600-5800 rpms. He said i wont get the MPH's in the quarter with a stall that high. They want 450 bucks for their custom built converter seems kinda cheap for a custom converter i will call ati tomorrow they are closed now.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

i'm using Red-Neck's stuff. actually, i have their full race th350 with a 4100 stall converter from them. full reverse manual valve body and transbrake. it's super high quality stuff. they kept in touch with me about the whole build and showed to be very knowledgable. i've been REALLY impressed with their products so far. i've used ati and red-neck and i gotta say, they're both the same caliber in my books. i'd use them again too...especially for the price they want. my trans and converter to my door for $1500

camarokev400

from what their description says they arent afraid to put thier stuff up against anything else. I dont now i might give them a try and see how it works out with one of their 3500-4000 stalls. What can you actully footbrake the 4100 stall of theirs to?

ross

PTC has good stuff at a decint price also. With a cam with 244 deg of duration @ .050 you are looking at 6000-6500 rpm shift points I would go with a 3800-4200 converter it will still run good on the street.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

well, i haven't really messed with it a whole lot. i want to say it foot brakes to like 3200-3500 or so. on the t-brake it's rock steady at 4100 and that's about what it flashes to on the launch. when i'm running footbrake classes, i bring it up to about 3000rpms. i'm getting a 2step with my new ignition box and plan to run the 2step at 3400rpms or so.

cp87GTA

I've been running ******* converters for 3 years or more. I'd buy another if I needed one. I have a 4500 in my Grand Am right now. I 60 ft 1.38/1.39 leaving at 3500 off of the brake, all motor. I'm going to a glide this year and a 406 later this year. I want to see just what my 383 can do before I make the change. If the car is a street car, then I wouldn't go over 3500, but that's my 02. They do cause some heat, so you better have a very good cooler. If you go too tight tho, it'll be a little slow comming off the line. I'd call ******* and see what he recomends. I also have a 3500 in my sons car, 406 Pontiac in a 96 Bird, we could drive it on the street if we wanted to. His cam is a little larger that yours, but not much.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

if that done do mid 11's somethings wrong. just under 3300 lbs raceweight wont need alot of power to get 11's and i think you have it covered with that cam/head/intake setup with those cubes

camarokev400

I called red-neck performance and talked to the guy he built me a 4000 stall for my motor, i gave him all my specs. I got it last week looks pretty good its the 9.5 inch one. Now i got a problem with my rearend housing, i ordered 11 inch explorer disc brake setup for the large bearing 9 inch and they dont fit i cant find any brakes to fit this housing. I bought the rearend from a guy that had it built by a friend for a third gen and no one knows anything about it.... so im kinda stuck. i think im just going to get the moser housing and axle package for 1000 bucks. Has anyone ever delt with exoticperformance parts before? they seem to have the best deal on the 9 inch housing. I have a set of 01 ws6 rear brakes that i will have the housing built for. If anyone knows anyone looking for a 9 inch housing with all the brackets welded on let me know im going to sell the other one.

cp87GTA

Why don't you just have the ford ends cut off and use the chevy ends for the ford bearings made by moser? I have chevy drum brakes on both of my 9" ford rear ends. If I remember right the forged ends only cost 80.00 from moser. I had a fellow do the ones on my son car and he only charged me 40.00 to put it in his jig and weld the ends on. Find a guy near you that does circle track work on rear ends, they go thru a few 9" rears. The rear we used in my sons car came out of a ford truck and had 3 1/4 in tubes instead of the 3 in tubes I have in mine.

camarokev400

UPDATE: finally got the car on the road this past weekend, its running great however i already blew the intake gasket out in the front of the block where the rtv seals. I talked to a few people and they said that i need to get some breathers in my valve covers if im not going to be using a pcv becasue it builds up too much crankcase pressure. This engine really revs up fast with the solid roller cam. Im changing the prof products intake out for a victor jr when i pull it off and replace the gasket. My brake pedal feels really crappy though after all of this work im starting to think it might be becasue of the cam but i didnt think that it was that big of a cam to affect the brakes but if it turns out to be that, would it be easier to convert to manual brakes or get a vaccum pump setup to help out?

z28freak84

I would stick with the Hurricane.

cp87GTA

I've been running a Huricane intake for 5 years on my 383. And am very happy with it. I have a Victor Jr in the garage for my 406 build, and their not much differant. My brother bought it for the 406 when he had it. I use the high temp silicone when installing the manifold, and have never had a leak. Just make sure there is no oil on the mating parts.

mod313

Couple options for the brakes. Convert to manual brakes, add a vacuum cannister to the system or install a vacuum pump on the booster. Been down the cannister route and wasn't thrilled with stop and go traffic vacuum storage. Manual or pump are better choices.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

For RTV i always use the mopar grey its the best stuff i've been able to get ahold of.

5678TA

leave the intake.. for the front and rear seal on the intake, use "The Right Stuff".. it comes in a can that looks like the cheese it stuff.. i blew my seal 3 times with regular black RTV and once i switched, i'll never go back.. i think permatex makes it..

and i'm running the SSBC electric vacuum pump on my car and it works great.. a bit pricey at 275 though.. but a worthy investment

camarokev400

I put a new vicor jr intake on... the front RTV bead def was not sealing with the hurricane on there. Im going to keep the hurricane intake might try and do some port work on it to clean it up. The main reason for swithing to the victor jr was because it is a little bit shorter and it allows me to use my 2 inch space which has a vac port for a pcv valve on it. With the hurricane and the 2 inch spacer my ss hood would not shut. Hopefully the victor jr wont loose any hp or torque over the hurricane. Any suggestions on where to set my timing at... im going to try and get out to the test and tune session this friday night and see where im at time wise. Im not using the vac advance in the dist, it still has the mechanical advance inside though, i think it was set at around 38 total before.

camarokev400

Track Results: NO TRACTION i ran a 12.4 at 116mph with a 2.2 60 foot, wasnt really planning on great results since i was running on a 225/60r16 tire. I just bought a set of weld draglite rims, skinnys up front and a set of 26x11.5x15 hoosier qtps in the back. What psi should i start out with in these tires? also i have lca relocation brackets welded on my 9 inch, i have them in the lowest hole, is that the best place for more traction? I would think i should pulling like a 1.5 1.6 60 foot right? Any tips or advice would be appreciated, i want to make a solid 11sec pass before i weld in the rollcage. thanks

camarokev400

side shot with just the rears on, waitng for the fronts still

ross

I see 11.70s for shure and with some tuning maby even better

5678TA

it looks like its got under 11.50 on a 1.5 60ft.. figure, 116mph will get you 11.6's but if you hook up, it will gain mph as well..


for the LCARBS, most people use them on the middle hole unless the car is lowered.. start tire pressure at about 10-12psi and go up until 60ft gets worse..

z28freak84

on a 1.5 60' it IS GONNA GO 11.49 or faster.

camarokev400

Thats what i wanted to hear.... I am going to try to get back to the track this wed or friday. I moved my lca brackets to the middle hole and i will have on the hoosiers. The front tires that came on the front runner are way too tall im going to have to sell the tires and get some shorter ones, they are 28x.4.5x15 and my rears are only 26, if anyone is interested or wants trade for a shorter tire they are almost new gooyears.

IHI

iTrader: (1)

i never got to run my hurricane, after a few hours grinding and hogging the pathetic sized runners trying get them close to my 1206 felpro gasket size...i gave up on it, it might be fine once a guy puts a ton of work into it hogging, but i'm a rather spend money so i can bolt on and go vs vesting too much time into anything, i've got better things to do

you'll notice a huge et drop with 100% traction, so i wanted to get tuned in to see how you come out. Easily a 11 second ride once all the bugs are worked out.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

how does that motor like over 10.3 to one compression and iron heads? you on race gas? if not i'd keep timing down alittle. Try 34 total and go from there. Dont run it too lean either

i think there should be more in that setup once tuned and hooking up. 116mph seems alittle low for a 3300 lb raceweight with that motor

Rayzor32

iTrader: (1)

get some sub frames before u twist the body

camarokev400

Yeah there is no frame ties in the car yet, plan on putting them in when do the cage, i already have the roll cage sitting in the garage just wanted to make sure i was actually going to need it before installing it and slowing me down it is really heavy. I havent got a chance to weigh the car in yet this year since adding the ford 9 inch and all the other changes, i will get a race weight when i go back to the track this friday. Im prob only going to be able to get in two runs though because 11.99 requires a cage.

As for the compression ive been running 93 with a bottle of octane booster, i will put the race gas in when i go to the track and set the timing at 36-38 ive been running it on the street at 35 or so.

Ive been shifting it at around 6500-6700 it still pulls all the way through 6800, i know i should really get it on a dyno and get it tuned in. It has a lot torque low and pulls really hard from 4000-7000.

z28freak84

you dont need the cage untile 11.49 now.

camarokev400

Really? i thought it was 11.99 the track i race at is NHRA now it use to be IHRA. Is there anything else im going to have to have then for 11.99 or faster? I have the 3 inch long wheel studs for the slicks, and a driveshaft loop, and i know the helmet is required for 12's ive been wearing that.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yeah its 11.49 now. you seem to have everything else u need tho for those times

z28freak84

oh well. ur gonna need the cage anyway.

5678TA

at my track, theres a bunch of guys doing the 11.90 index that dont even have roll bars.. 11.49 it is needed.. you technically dont need the full cage until 9's or 135mph.. you will need a fire jacket.. just get a single layer.. if/when you hit 10's they might make you wear a thicker one.. or even pants to go with it..

http://www.nhra.com/tech_specs/ETQuickRef.html