mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

fyi, super gas type racing is super-duper gay, i'll take my 3400lb tank with no electronics and full street trim on a small tire any day. beating guys like you with all your fancy tube chassis/electronics cars is icing on the cake...can't tell you how many of ya'll i put on the trailer this year...

i've been drag racing all my life. it's a family thing for me. i DO marry my stuff, and get way emotionally attached, and i WANT it that way. built not bought, and that's the way i'm keeping it. i have zero desire to get rid of my car ever. if all i wanted to do was go fast, i'd have built a 240" dragster and stuck a big block in it, and filled it with all the goofy *** bracket aids available. i wanted a car with more character and attitude, and something that i could put my own touches on.

racing is not a business, it's a lifestyle, and this is how i choose to live it!

1gary

Rather than to sling mud my answer is based on over 40 yrs of racing.I'm almost 65 yrs old.A winner at a national event which most in their whole career can't lay claim to.We too have won against some of the best.For yrs made money on flipping(selling cars) at the end of the season.

3rdBird

iTrader: (1)

I just came across some pics of my disc brake upgrade from stock factory brakes to Aerospace 4 piston calipers and rotors.

I weighed the box as it was shipped from Aerospace, and it was 20lbs, both sides, pads rotors calipers, brake lines, and bearings.

After the install was done I weighed one side of the factory set up, 1 caliper, 1 rotor, bearings, races, pads brake lines, and it was 28 lbs.

I also weighted the factory hood when we replaced it, that weighed 65 lbs, we replaced it with a 15 lb lift off hood.

We replaced the radiator support with 1" aluminum angle iron and saved another 40+ lbs

There's alot of simple weight reduction to be had

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

he's right on the buying a roller deal. i've seen unfinished 25.5 cars going for $3500 with 40spline 9" and lots of other stuff still in it. your looking at $5000 just to have a 25.5 put in your car!

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

well good for you. i just finished my first year of competitive racing, and brought home 4 wins and 2 runner ups, and finished 2nd overall. my father has won IHRA national events, and has 3 overall 2nd place finishes and 1 championship from the NSCA (as in seasonal finishes), so i'm quite familiar with running a national level car. you basically came in and said "you're doing it wrong" on this thread, which i feel is also mud slinging. steve has some legitimate questions, and all you can say is "go buy someone elses unfinished project". if you have nothing truly to add to the thread, then get out of it.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

while he may be right about it, that's not what this thread is about. you claim to have a lightweight car (and i believe it, cause you're not going to get the numbers you claim with your motor in a full weight car) so why not share some of your secrets?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

do you have some pics of what you did here

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

This was a great thread about putting a street strip car, which I would argue is most of this board, on a diet. Then the tube chassis guy shows up.

I tried flipping MY first car. Sold it for $2000'with no driveshaft and a blown rear end and stock 454/th400 I had laying around. Found a $10000 car on craigslist for $2500 as the guy was divorcing. I had my hand on my money in my pocket about to buy it. But the whole time I was thinking to myself, "for $3500 I could have had all this in MY car" (Im good friends with some great fabricators). So I turned around and bought MY car back for $400 with no motor no trans no driveshaft the blown rear. But this time it also had nothing left of the interior except for a dash and wheel. I have that same 2500 in my wheels tires and rear suspension.

Morale of this story is that for some of us, ours cars, are more than cars. Like mine, it's a tribute and memorial to my grandfather. He gave me the car at age 16 to race. Said if I could get it runnin I could have it, (he was a mechanic for 40+ years). I replaced the cap and rotor and it fired up. I took him for a ride with the small block he helped me build and wanted to go down the track with me.

Before he got the chance he was t-boned on his bike. He died two weeks after I sold the car. That's why the project car never made it into my possession. And that's why I ripped the title up at the tag office after it was transferred back into my name. And that's why my motto is BUILT NOT BOUGHT!!!

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

removed everything not needed and used all chromoly stuff on the suspension along with strange brakes. other than that, i installed an overly heavy 8 point mild steel rollbar, heavy th400, and heavy 9" rear. still has carpet, interior panels, and headliner. electric hatch pulldown also. with no fuel or nitrous bottle i crossed the scale at 2975 (i think?) at the pinks all out a few years back. havent weighed it since, and i have added some stuff to the car since then to bring the weight up a bit. it should be somewhere around 3050-3100ish though. (with me in it of course) i havent removed any of the body/chassis, though. it even still has the rear bumper support!
i dont see how people have a hard time getting the weight down myself... i think 2700's is pretty do-able with a gutted base model camaro without ground effects and a glide with a lightweight 9" setup. may need lightweight front/rear glass for that too, im not sure.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i dont think he was trying to insult anyone by what he said, just stating what he thought.
i tell everyone that is wanting to buy a car to build the same thing- buy something someone is trying to unload. youll save a ton of time and money most of the time. a guy i work with is looking for one right now matter of fact. i bought my gta as a roller, but i didnt save all that much after selling and swapping pretty much everything around.... lol i just liked the car. at this point now, its a part of me, and i will hang onto it. i want/need to do a 25.5 on it, and thats going to cost $5,000. it sucks because i see quite a few 25.5 cars for that much or less sometimes. and they normally come with a boatload of stuff like afco's, rearend, seat, gauges, etc. basically $8-10k worth of stuff.
but anyways, back to the original topic.

Shagwell

Haven't been on here since I last posted - I'll shoot you a PM w/ my number if ya wanna chat sometime.

gtpro700

I believe xpndbl street drives his still and this is his thread. "streetable " is relative to the person driving it for the most part.

Shagwell

If you simply want to "test-n-tune race" or bracket race, then the best way to do so is a nice lightweight tube chassis car. Buy one turn-key and enjoy it or buy one as a roller and put in the pieces that you like. - You'll save time/money and likely be faster & more consistent.

As for what this thread was about, a street/strip car, most posting in here know and understand what Steve asked, and either have some suggestions or may be wondering the same themselves.

I will again re-iterate, don't get too caught up in MS vs CM for weight savings. Yes, it will usually be a tad lighter, but unless the MS version you have/are looking at is overly engineered, the weight savings will be fairly small. That said though, everything does add up in the long run. Its just so often you see threads on the internet talking about how X part is Y pounds lighter in CM than MS, when the MS version doesn't actually weight what the supposed difference is; prime example is often 6 & 8 point roll bars, when a CM is supposedly 40-60#'s lighter, yet a MS 8 point doesn't weight 60#'s......I have yet to figure out how a CM roll bar makes the car lighter than not having a bar at all?????? - The key when looking at parts is no so much MS vs CM, but rather how it's built & the specs of the material used. Many of your run-of-the-mill parts producers will use overly heavy materials to ensure wide-span product quality and safety for as long/longer than OE parts. On the flip side, the better custom oriented shops that produce bolt-in/direct fit type items tend to not be so over-kill on the materials used thus even their MS version of a common part(say a lca) will often be lighter than a mass-produced one.



WINDOWS - I completely understand the need for a stock safety-glass windshield and even stock side windows that can still be rolled up/down in a real-world street car. That said, most states only regulate the windshield(obviously check your own laws), not side/rear windows. - Any of y'all ever lift a 3rd gen rear hatch w/ blown rear lift shocks? How bout take it off the car and try picking it up? That's a seriously heavy hunk a glass right there; the molded speedglass piece is barely a fraction of that. Even if you were to build a frame around it so that it could still be lifted/pivoted up on the stock hinges you could still save a considerable amount of weight.

- Crash bars in the doors have been mentioned, as Matt figured out the weight savings isn't drastic but anything 5 + lbs starts adding up quickly.
- Got a 6 or 8-point roll bar? Ever think about running a couple small tubes from it out to the sail panel area to support it so that you could cut all the stock panel bracing out?
- Do you really need all the stock radiator core support? - several pounds can be shaved off, even w/o completely removing it.
- Ever pull your dashboard out complete? - all the stock bracing/metal is far from light; again amazing what a little electrical conduit can do to hold everything in place properly while still being less than half the weight.
- Still sporting the stock center console? What out of it do you need besides the shifter & maybe an arm rest?
- Camaro guys ever hold your stock head-lighter header panel? - It's amazing what you can do with a little 1/2" electrical conduit and some thin plate.
- Steering column - was already brought up, a section of 3/4 steel tubing, a section of 1-1/4" aluminum tubing, and a couple nylon bushings. Not hard to fab up yourself easily under $100. - Being a street car you'll have to decide whats best on sorting out your blinker switch though, one of the little universal aftermarket ones designed for street rods would be my thought.
- Wipers? - Unless you're planning this as your only driver & long road trips, they can be tossed. Just keep a good coat of rain-x on it and you're good to go.

3rdBird

iTrader: (1)

nothing special, just tying the fenders together. but the top radiator support and hood latch assy is another surprisingly 30+ lbs.

Deimos140

Make you a deal you cant refuse on back halfed camaro chris alston chassis works eliminator II with arb, with harwood hood, comp steering column wheel, ed quay idler, lakewood 90/10 front struts. Let me know Xpndbl3 just trying to save ya time and money if ya needed a parts car.

Project-RS

iTrader: (1)

heres a few things i did to take some weight out. i took every wire out of the car and bought a painless wire harness. i also took out the dash and heat and everything that has to do with those. i then had a dash made of alu-panel that only hold gauges. i have no power options (even welded the hatch release in place) took a 84 factory fiberglass hood and took the inner layer off. cut out the factory upper rad support and made a "L" bar. installed aluminum door panels and left everything off (no armrests, ect...) installed a fiberglass notch hatch. i cut out the trunk and fabbed up a area for the plastic fuel cell. there are more things, but cant think of them right now. i will be getting the car weight after the tubular k member comes in.

interior (alu-panel dash, aluminum door panels, custom center console):



engine bay with "L" bar (upper rad support)



trunk with rear firewall and fuel cell:



fiberglass notch with 84 rear bumper:

1gary

Very well done.Nice!!Screams out race car in every way.

Beeman

My 85 Z-28 is strictly a bracket car, it's gutted and weighs 2709 full of fluids without a driver. I didn't do anything besides take off what wasn't necessary. My bumper reinforcements are gone and I gut the horns off the frt. along with trimming the rad. support. Doors are steel but gutted with lexan windows installed. Still have the stock back glass but the windshield is 1/8" lexan. Has an 8 point cage with square tube subframe connectors and a Ford all iron 9". Hood is a liftoff 4" cowl that is very light.
Steering column is all homemade. Take an old stock column and use a pipe cutter and cut the housing at the bottom so you have the part that bolts to the firewall. Then cut the lower shaft and weld it to a piece of steering column tubing. This way you have the lower mount and a shaft that goes right to a GM box, S-10 manual on mine. I have a cross tube in the dash so i used a heim joint and a bracket welded to the tube. I used 2 shaft clamps to hold the tubing on either side of the heim. I used a quick release steering kit that welds to the end of the tubing and you have a light weight steering column with a removeable wheel.

AlkyIROC

Although mine is gutted enough to really drop the weight, I also have 240 pounds of roll cage put back in Spring of 2010, my race weight was 3020 pounds sitting on the starting line ready to go.

Shagwell

As the car was, the lightest I could get w/ me in the seat/ready to race was 2970. - Car still has full rockers/door sills, most of the stock firewall(cowl is gone), and all the stock body structure above the floors other than the front strut tower/wheel hose crash reinforcement.

That's with a 2x3 frame from the firewall back and lots of .134-.150 REW instead of .120 DOM below the floors. - We're expecting to get down to around 2650-2700 race this next go-round.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

How True How true!
this years up grades are over $22 Grand.(just in the car) AND IM NOT EVEN TUBBED!! (yet)
and have seen some nice rollers with all the right parts go for under 8 grand!

now add a brand new all alum trailer

and the new chevy tow rig (cus i do brake things) and i could have been running 2 cars.

but on the flip side.. nobody but me has put lic plates on my 92 Z28
thank God. Jet engs. need parts. so i can Make money!

1gary

I am impressed you have one of John's cars/engines.He was and his company is one my heroes.Nice.

BlueBeast

Plenty of guys in the 7's at 160+ with pins on hoods.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

it started out in 91/92 has. I wanted a 67 /70 camaro body.
then took a look at a Brand new Z28. and was thinking how could i make a Hot rod out of it.. I was Given Lingenfelters name. and with in a month he had My New Camaro. and 8 weeks later i got it back. (shipped back to me)

taking it to the track. and just standing on it it was a 11.70 car
not bad for a car with all the Smog on it and this was back in 92/93.

even letting the car sit in a box for 9 years.at car show guys would ask me.
"hey. you still have that Kick A$% Camaro"
Yes...yes I Do

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i think thats awesome. my car was built by a guy back around '90-91 with the banks twin turbo setup. it had cats on it and passed smog too. pretty cool for back in those days to have a lingenfelter anything. friend of mine has a '90 lingenfelter stroked ZR1 vette.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Got bored tonight and decided to break out the sawzall for a little weight removal.
First pic looks all wavy on my camera phone but that's actually the frame down below, the flash made it look weird.




Still need to mess with the headlight panel and core support some, anyone have pics of what they did to lighten those areas?

Shagwell

Both of mine are MIA. I run a 3x5 headlight in the factory parking light location. Being a street car, obviously, removing the stock headlights isn't an option.

How far you want to go makes for a decision here, as the more you cut out, the more you'll have to rework to maintain functions(light mounting/adjust-ability and the hood latch). - So how much work do you want to make for yourself?

Simplest method is cutting all but the head light buckets out of the header panel(bumper support between lights) as well as cutting out all metal not required to bolt them up. Then fab up some lightweight tubing/tabs to re-support the bumper.

The not so simple but most effective method is to sawzall the frame-rails off forward of the wheel houses and put back only whats needed with lightweight tubing. - being as though you don't appear to be utilizing the stock hood latch, you have much less to put back in place.




Best line I've ever heard about building/lightening a car is to "think ounces and the pounds will come off". Everywhere you can lighten an ounce will continue to add up on top of the more significant savings that are more obvious.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Pin on hood, so no latches present. I remember you saying conduit for brackets/support, is hardware store conduit steel that I could mig tabs onto?

Beeman

My headlamp panel is still intact. I have 2 workin headlamps in the stock buckets and 2 are replaced with plexi painted black. I kept looking at the 2 panels at the frt. you cut out but they sure are handy for holding tools and spark plugs when you're working on the car. Didn't think they weighed much but I'm sure every little bit helps.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

years ago i picked up all plastic head lights for my car. picked up a few of them. just in case. dont know if they make them anymore.
all 4. are 4lbs lighter then the glass lights.

it will add up

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Ya I see the plastic housings that take the newer bulbs in them, I'll probably buy a set off ebay....now to look on the "gasp" appearance board on which ones everyone likes. One headlight was over 3 pounds on my scale, so some good weight to be saved for cheap.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

where'd you get that idea? ^

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

some guy who wins big trophies without a tube chassis throttle stopped car

Shagwell

Yep. - My rear bumper support is 1/2" galvanized electrical conduit...lol. Very thin/lightweight, but does what it needs to. I just sand the galv off wherever I have to weld.

My front support is regular hardware store steel tubing(iirc, roughly 16gauge).

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Here is my front bumper support. Its 1lb and the factory bumper support was 36-7ish.
I also have plastic headlights in the car.

Shagwell

.....supports my complete front clip(stock tin fenders & urethane nose still) and doesn't flex/deform at 180+

drperformance

iTrader: (5)

****,
I curious how much weight saving do you think you would have with a full fiberglass front clip? I am currently doing a build like yours and was thinking fiberglass but would love to do a removable steel front end like yours if the weight savings is minimal.

How is that thing to remove? I would love to talk to you in detail if possible.

Shagwell

I wouldn't save enough weight to warrant the $750, thus why I'm still sporting the stock pieces. - It comes off in about 5 seconds and goes back on in about 6, lol. We don't even pull the hood anymore, just pull the complete "doghouse" as one.

itsjustabird

iTrader: (1)

Id like to do something like that with mine, its not going to see the street very much anymore. i wouldnt mind maybe even having a fiberglass clip AND the stock set-up both set-up to just slide on and off.

itsjustabird

iTrader: (1)

While on this subject of weight removal... anyone messed with removing the e-brak cable brackets in the driveshaft tunnel? I dont have e-brake anymore figure wth..

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

I don't have ebrake, and took the handle and all cables off. Was like 10 ish pounds.

Beeman

My rear bumper cover has nothing in it for support, doesn't seem to need anything, been that way for years. My frt. only has the plastic HL mount that goes from side to side. No other supports and it's fine. I also cut off those big horns at the end of the frame rail that the big bumper syupport bolted to. Also cut the radiator support down and removed the round stock cross braces. Took a sawzall and cut out all of the extra metal behind the headlamps.
If your frt. fenders and all come off what did you do with the wheel wells and the fendr support brackets? I didn't cut anything there figuring the frt. end needed it for strength.

Mac10

get on a treadmill and lose some weight yourself ! It's not always the cars fault , sometimes its cold mountain brewed beer

itsjustabird

iTrader: (1)

matt did you remove the brackets in the tunnel that has a believe a seatbelt bolt hole through it? I havent messed with it yet but not sure how it comes off curious if it needs cut or not?

itsjustabird

iTrader: (1)

great point! I myself should be 75-85lbs lighter than the last time at the track

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

here you go....get out the sawzall





you said extreme lol


I should add this is not my car

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

I'm 270lbs.. weighed 225 right out of HS without a ounce of fat on me...
ran 5miles a day an spent 2.5 hrs in the gym every day
Replaced that by chasing tail and booze n it up, added 45lbs in 20 yrs!!

Beeman

That does look...extereme. I see the tubes from the cage to the strut towers were added in the 2nd pic. Those look like stock upper strut mounts, will they be changed?

Shagwell

.....not far off from mine....






The front "cradle" is mounted via 4 bolts, once you pull it you're literally standing at the block plate.

brandoz28

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the extra pictures ****....I've been looking around on the net trying to figure out how far I want to cut on my TT5 car