xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Basically anything that can be unbolted from my car has been....what have you guys cut out or removed to yank more weight? So far all the rear seat brackets, and arm rest areas are removed for mini tubs,rear crash brace is gone, front one is plasma cut all up, got tubular stuff all around, manual brakes, steering, windows, locks etc. Now trying to see some more involved mods. The 4th gen guys have removed some interesting areas but just don't correlate to a 3rd gen.


If you have some pics that would be great too. Also planning on cutting out the narrow portion of the frame underneath and making a new tubular trans crossmember off my subframe connectors, might do a motor plate as well since that'll save a little weight over my solid mounts. Be a nice place to mount my magnafuel fuel log off a tab welded onto it. Just looking for ideas here that the old threads didn't cover, especially since those were mainly unbolting OEM emissions stuff, a/c etc.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

Stock carpeting with the deadener taken off the back side. My rear seat pads just have enough foam left to keep them looking factory. front crash bar is now a .500 piece of chromoly to keep the front end from collapsing. the rear crashbar/patachute was 32lbs and replaced with 1 5/8 chromoly tube which weights 8lbs. Heater controls and radio have been gutted to save weight. The frontheater and radio panels are glued in to look factory. Subframe conenctors made fom chromoly. I dropped about 30lbs losing the comp engineering ones. 4 inch aluminum driveshaft. I had to shorten the torque arm for that to fit with the TA x-member mount. As of now my car weighs 3250lbs with a Merlin block which is 70lbs heavier then a Dart I hear. I plan on getting rid of the large circle track radiator and ls1 fans which should save another 10-20lbs and have yet to weigh those parts. I'm happy with the Strange front brake purchase. That was a solid 32lbs.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

All sound deadener is off the carpet, looking to remove all that seam sealer black stuff from everywhere in the rear as well, it does have some weight to it, I know a buddy had a 10 pound pail of it on a bathroom scale. I'd love a pic of that front crashbar if you had one, or the rear parachute setup. Not at the mph to need one just yet, but then again I can't weld chro moly with my 220v mig either. I know I have mild steel subframes and 6 point, but wasn't planning on removing either, although that is a good idea. Was going to take some smaller tube and run it from the roll bar through the floor into the subframe connector top, then connect the front of it with 1 5/8" roll bar tubing into the front subframes so I can hack off the part that narrows up. I'm running the stock ls1 radiator and a single spal fan setup, so those are about as light as I can possibly go since the radiator is only 1" thick and aluminum with plastic end tanks.

AlkyIROC

Get a propane torch and a putty knife and scrape all the undercoat off the underside of the car. That should be 10-20 pounds.

gtpro700

Does an ls1 radiator fit directly in a third gen or is there modifications needed. Also is it better than a third gen factory rad? Just want to upgrade my rad soon and looking for options. I know u have a ls motor but I have don't and wondering if it work even work on my sbc setup. Just looking for a cheap alternative for my factory radiator.

Drkhrse89

iTrader: (1)

I put one in my car over the summer. You will need to modify/make an upper radiator mount. The radiator hoses will need to be replaced and a hole will need to be drilled in the lower radiator mount. There is a tube that comes off the bottom of the LS1 radiator on the passanger side. Those are the only changes I needed to make. I also used the LS1 fans, I had dual electric prior to that, and the plugs are the exact same. I am running a SBC right now. I saw much better cooling, but that is because my factory radiator was shot. I went with the LS1 radiator and fans, because I got them very cheap.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

I'll text ya some pics later tonight. The chute mount is chromoly with two 1 inch stubs that I could weld on at home. I figured 2 oz difference for convenience of not dragging the tig home was well worth it. My sub frame connector run from the front stub straight to the front lca eyelet with some bracing. I really didnt remove a lot of sealer from the bottom of the car when I sanded it down.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

I wasn't aware I could weld chro moly with my mig setup to weld mild steel. Thought it needed to be TIG'd only or is that just for cages? My car never had any sealer on the bottom, even when pulling the tank out, might have been removed by the first racer that had it, as for undercoating, I'll be removing that from the front wheelwell and the rear one right now while doing the mini tubs along with the seam sealer stuff inside the car, which makes quite the mess. I'm thinking the propane torch probably helps it melt and would make it a little easier, thanks for the tip Stephen.

If I could knock out another 50-100 pounds out of the car for next season I'd feel good about it, and a few pounds out of myself as well

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

I tig'd the mild steel stubs to the bar, then mig welded the stubs to the car to finish at home.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

sfc's

Shagwell

First, I'll address a couple myths -

You can MIG weld CM just fine. NHRA just requires TIG on the cages because the welds can be safely visually inspected, as where MIG can very easily be visually deceiving(a beautiful weld may have little to no penetration).

Moly is NOT lighter than mild steel. Size for size it is exactly the same weight; the weight savings comes because they allow you to use a thinner wall thickness due to it being "stronger". In a full tube chassis car a CM chassis is only around 100lbs lighter than MS, thus when you have even less tubing to consider it is even less of a weight savings, when the correct spec of either material is used. - Obviously some of the production sfc's and other components for these cars are heavier then they need to be.



Now on with the topic - what can safely be cut-out varies largely with what other components/safety has been added. The crash braces that run down the length of the strut towers(under the fenders), the cowl area, the inner roof bracing, the sail panel(b/c pillar) bracing, any flooring that doesn't physically tie something into the car(rear sump, spare tire well, under the rear seats, etc - all much thicker material than needed), much of the core support, the stock head-light/nose support bracket(much heavier than needed).

My camaro is all MS. The stock floors are gone from the firewall back, but are currently still steel(tin, but not aluminum or CF). The A, B/C pillar, rockers & entire door jamb areas are in-tact as they were factory, the front wheel house/strut towers are in place, the front frame rails, portions of the factory firewall(it has been smoothed over with flat steel tin), and the front clip is still OE('86 steel fenders & urethane nose). The doors are light lay-up fiberglass, the hood & trunk lid are fiberglass, and all windows are polycarbonite. - With a full 25.4(and then some) MS chassis/cage, an iron GM BBC block fully of epoxy, dual group 27 batteries(62# each), full cooling system, a full 4 gallon fuel cell, stock internal th400(no lightweight parts), 12-bolt rear(not a lightweight 9"), two 10# n2o bottles, and my 200# butt in the seat ready to race it's 3027lbs.

During its current down time while we mess with the stang, it's going to loose roughly 300-350#'s. The 2x3 main/rear rails are coming out, many of the lower tubes are .134-.150 wall and coming out, the rocker and sail panels will be gutted, and all the steel paneling(floors, tubs, etc) is done for.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

So with just a 6 point roll bar, is it safe to remove the under fender crash braces or material from the rear pillars or will my body flex and leave dimples like the 4th gen guys get on their quarters. Do you have any pics of the cowl area? That was something I was planning on cleaning up regardless to make the firewall look more presentable. Didn't know if you had a album with pics of your car from the build up or not.

Shagwell

Depending on how well the 6-point is tied in you could get away with removing the b/c pillar bracing, but I don't think I'd cut the front w/o having the front bars and/or a block plate in place.

Everything I have uploaded of the camaro -
http://s455.photobucket.com/albums/q...tlaw%20camaro/

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

block plate = motor plate??

Shagwell

Yes. If you were to tie one in similar to mine you could brace the strut towers w/o having the forward strut bars off the cage. Then you could get by with cutting a lot more of the stock bracing out.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

If you get a second, could I shoot you a few ideas over the phone? Or perhaps an excellent MS paint drawing of what I'm thinking

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I dont know how some get their cars soo light. I was at 3450 before adding turbos/piping/intercooler but removing stock hood with heavy harwood 4", but then gaining some back with C5 brakes! I cant win. I bet my car is over 3550 now. I'd love to get down 150 lbs or more. Just cant seem to figure out what I can remove.. Its already got the carpet padding gutted and 8pt bar which NEEDS to go to a 10 pt soon. I need to add a chute eventually too. Already have sfc's which were heavy and dual 3" exhaust which is heavy. Th400 is heavy. Argh...frustrating. I'm on stock rear so a 9" or 12 bolt is even more weight

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

join the club, but apparently there's 2800 pound race cars out there....who knew I'm going to see where I end up in the spring, hopefully 150 pounds lighter, I'll be weighing whatever I cut off and keeping a running note of it.

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Not really cheap, what about aluminum floors?

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

no tube chassis car here, nothing underneath to support it

BlueBeast

Have you taken out the crash bars out the doors? Some of the later models arent worth it but my 85 has a big beam in the door. I "gutted" my doors and got 16lbs out of one and 17 out of another. The still looks and function as they did before. How far do you want to go, wiring is very heavy if you use something like http://spaghettimenders.com/ That can save weight and still have all the factory funtcions. Racecraft has a column that is lightweight. Its hard to get these cars down without hacking them up. I found a carbon fiber hood that is only 9 lbs and its $600.00. Only draw back I dont like is its not a bolt on.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Who's and is it a cowl? I need a new hood to get rid of the holes i cut for turbos, now that my turbos are under hood. The harwood 4" is hardly a weight savings hood!

BlueBeast

Here is the link for the hood. I have seen some of there mustang stuff and is very nice quailty. The harwood show quailty hood is a very nice hood but HEAVY, which is what I have. I would love to have this hood but my painter wold probably kill me if he had to match the flames.

http://www.feathercarbon.com/products.php

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

4" pin on glasstek hood is like 13 pounds unpainted as well. It's what I run.



wiring is all gutted and 30amp relays in place in the spare tire area for all the electronics and pumps. Haven't touched the doors, but might look into that. Didn't consider the column yet, due to price vs weight savings.

Looking into cheap/free weight loss at the moment which is basically cutting/gutting what I can I guess. No speedglass budget or fiberglass back hatch budget at the moment either.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Nothing wrong with an unpainted hood I like that carbon hood, decent price for carbon and 9 lbs! But man, I dont know if I like the idea of 1/4 turn fasteners all up and down the hood. I will likely be going 150mph+ in the long run so its gotta hold tight

toxik IROC

iTrader: (12)

orr89rocz- I saw some copany awhile back that made a rear hatch in cf or fiber glass from the glass back, you could go speed glass, or……get a full fiberglass front end…..?


I'll look up the info for the light weight parts later( I had em saved on my comp but mine died yesterday so im on my sisters )

AlkyIROC

Well technically, mine is in the 2800 pound range but adding a driver puts it in the low 3000 pound range. Knowing my car weight is only good when it's in my trailer to know how much extra junk I can carry and stay under the load limit of the trailer.

I'm like everyone else. Try to cut weight everywhere I can but end up adding stuff which puts the weight right back to where I started. I've been struggling to get a race weight under 3000 pounds but finding that extra 20-30 pounds gets difficult when the car is already gutted.

I have an extreme over many other TGO members in that I have fiberglass doors and all my windows are Lexan including the T-tops. When I did the back half to the car, I actually shaved 20 pounds off the car. My cage is overkill and adds a lot of weight to the car but has more advantages than the weight disadvantage.

Depending on your budget, a 9" can be made much lighter than an OEM 10 bolt or a 12 bolt. Mine has an aluminum center, aluminum pinion support and an aluminum spool. That alone takes about 20 pounds of unsprung weight off the car. Some aluminum calipers takes even more off. I don't need heavy 35+ spline axles so my lighter 31 spline do fine.

My hood is a heavy factory fiberglass hood but most of the extra reinforcement especially across the front has been removed. A nice lightweight aftermarket fiberglass hood would be nice but they're out of my price range considering it needs to be shipped across the border as truck freight. I'd also go with a completely flat hood and just about every version out there has a cowl of some sort.

I do plan on chopping more sheetmetal out of the car this winter. I want to cut out a bunch of the firewall and redo the area around the tranny tunnel with a removable tunnel so access to the transmission is a lot easier. It's not much but every few pounds removed helps.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Only thing that concerns me is inspection and being a street car..which I doubt I can get by on lexan windows But it would be a nice idea. I'd love to make a lightweight framed, fiberglass or heavy composite plastic wrapped doors to kill some weight. stock doors are heavy.

I was looking at a midwest chassis works fab 9" and would like an aluminum center but it starts adding up in cost. Not sure of the weight but it appears to be lighter. I likely dont need heavy axles either since at the moment I leave pretty soft and dont plan on anything super heavy in the near future. I just want to get into the 8's and drive home Tbrake sure would help but just not in the budget at the moment

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

The column is cheap. Two pieces of tubing and a few nylon bushings. It's expensive if you buy a kit though.

RoadHammer

You can find Aluminum Bolt-thru 9" cases that are inexpensive on racingjunk. If you're lucky, it'll be assembled with the gears/spool that you want, making the swap not so hard on the wallet.

AlkyIROC

When I changed my steering column to just a shaft with some bearings, it removed 10 pounds from the car.

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

How did you go about piecing together the column? I've been thinking about this as well

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

As far as the tread topic. I've removed all interior except dash and steering wheel (literally not even a seat lol). Motor and trans are on a stand. No driveshaft and my passenger window was broken a couple days ago during a storm. It's pretty light right now lol

AlkyIROC

I have a flanged bearing where the shaft goes through the firewall and I fabricated a mount where the column normally attaches under the dash and attached a pillow block bearing to the mount. There's a lock collar on both sides of the pillow block to keep the shaft from sliding up or down. The collapse section of the shaft was welded together. I use a quick release adapter for a steering wheel.

This is probably the best picture. Many years ago when I took this, I was still using the lower bearing of the original column through the firewall. This was a non tilt column I picked up at the junk yard. I've never had a problem with it over all these years.

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

Nice. I see your running manual brakes as well. I was lookin to pick up the the PA-Racing manual kit when I redo the rest if the front suspension this year.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

BTW, if anyone is interested in putting a column in there car, I have a linkage for sale that will bolt up directly to the steering gear both manual and power. It has one u joint in it and it still retains the factory slider. 35.00.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

what's the total cost of a column swap into the car? I might be interested.

BBCpoweredZ28

iTrader: (3)

X2. Been considering it but couldn't justify the $200+ price tag.

1BADZ28. Pm me some part numbers/vendors I'd need for that column swap. Post some pics of that linkage if you get a chance. I'd be interested in it but wanna keep it on here since it's relevant.

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

48 inches of 3/4 tube, $16-20.00, 4 feet of 1 1/4 chromoly $16-20.00, small peice of double d bar a few bucks on summit.,8"x1" strap of sheet metal to hang column on factory column mount bolts. more sheet metal to fit against firewall. two nylon bushings $16.00
http://www.rjracecars.com/Steering-C...-Prodview.html

and your choice of sfi steering wheel disconnect. Too many choices out there. I added the Strange one.

I lost my bright lights but my toggle switch box incorporates the turn signals,headlights and hazzards. I opted to keep the headlights running through the factory switch though. It was only a few wires to reconnect to a power source.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

Sounds like something I'd be willing to buy/build. Did you have any pics of your final product? Never built one, only bought the aftermarket pre made ones for mustangs which are a lot cheaper than ones made for GM vehicles. So the piece you have laying around extra goes from this column at the firewall to my S10 manual steering box and bolts up like OEM stuff?

BadBBC

i am intrested in the column as well... comp makes a kit for 200+

1BADRZ28

iTrader: (2)

realistically you just need to get a u joint with double d end on it and weld it up on the end of your factory linkage then slide it on your column end. I used that set up for half of this year until I went to a rack and pinion.

1gary

Tons of drag race cars has had to threw a transformation shelling out the bodies using a full tube frame.Then what remains of the original body is pretty much the top having the quarters replaced with panels with fiberglass or carbon fiber.If you want Super Gas wt,you need to build a Super Gas car.3,000lbs is still very heavy.

1gary

Going to add to this too.I have tons of respect for the guys on here going as fast as they are @ 3,000 lbs.The flip side of that is with the same power train how fast would they be at 2500lbs or 2350 lbs??.For yrs we bought distressed rolling car projects where guys got into a project the ended being over their heads and couldn't finish.There is no way you could build what we bought.Those are still out there to be had and the best part is when your racing in a under valued car the sale of it and profit is ahead of you.1yr in and out selling it at the end of every season.Then looking in fall for the next good buy.Boys,you don't marry a damm thing because then you end up over investing and that is money you will never see again.

So what I am saying is for a true wt reduction,don't build what you got,but buy a good roller because that in the end will be cheaper as long as you know what your looking at/for.

www.racingjunk.com

gtpro700

Just like the saying goes - "built not bought" some people get a lot more satisfaction out of building their own car instead of buying a roller and tossing a motor in it. If i read it correctly it seemed like you were saying it is cheaper to buy a roller then build your own, which I would have to disagree with. Yes, sometimes you might get lucky but overall it is always cheaper to do the work your self than to pay for someone else to do it or sell it to you. My two cents.

AlkyIROC

Built or bought?

I could have saved a lot of money buying a rolling chassis years ago that would probably be much better than what I have now but no matter what car you buy like that, it's always going to be "someone else's car". You can modify and paint it to make it your own but it's never going to be "your" car.

At least with mine, it was a street car when I bought it to make into a race car. Even if I ever decide to sell it some day, it will still be my car.

On the other end of the scale, you still don't have to buy a rolling chassis. Start with the basics. Buy a tube chassis kit and build a purpose built race car. By the time you change and modify a production car to the point where I have mine, it would have been cheaper to just built a tube chassis car and have the huge weight reduction that comes with it.

gtpro700

That's what I did with my car I built it up from a regular factory street car to a good performing street/strip car now. I got a great amount of satisfaction out of doing that and I can look at it as my car. Some people also don't want a dedicated track car such as a tube chassis kit car would be. Especially with technology and turbos now a days many people can have a very reliable and fast street car if they want to go to the extremes. To each their own though.

1gary

Well you just got to believe racing is a business.How well you conduct that business is directly related to how successful a race program is.This emotional attachment to the cars is costing you more than you think.So when you talk about a wt reduction the next shoe to drop is a killer deal on a 2100lb super gas car with all the good parts.If you think you can build cheaper than a "my lost is your gain" deal,you are mistaken.Many yrs of doing the same thing over and over again.

Didn't marry any of them and they didn't bury us either.

gtpro700

Racing is not a business because there is little to no money to be had unless your shelling out some serious coin and then the money doesn't matter that much anyway if your that loaded. Again this is some one that has a street/strip car In which I will never look to make money out of racing because I know my hobby is a money put and I do it because I love it.

AlkyIROC

If the car isn't a "dedicated race car" then the thread topic about extreme weight removal is trivial. You're not going to get extreme weight removal and street/strip car together. There's always going to be a trade off with something. You either keep it street safe and looking reasonably stock or it gets completely gutted to remove as much weight as possible. Hard to have both.