AlkyIROC

I'm in Edmonton. The DA is 1900 feet. The car is making a huge amount of HP. First time trial run and I put the car on the rear bumper. I lifted and as the front end was coming down, I got into it again however I double shifted right into neutral. Engine spiked to 8000 according to the replay tach. I coasted across the finish line with a 12.222 at 75.23 mph.

I knocked one exhaust pipe off during the landing so I pulled both pipes off for the rest of the day. Car will be 45 pounds lighter today.

I tightened up the front shocks to full tight and changed the IC forward and slightly lower hoping to tame the wheelies. I had 2 different people come to my pit after the run commenting on the wheel stand.

Too bad I didn't have the in car camera on and the girlfriends camera screwed up so no video of the awesome wheel stand.

Second time trial is coming up shortly. Fingers are crossed that the front end can stay down. Looks like I finally need to install some wheelie bars.

GreggymacZ28

Good luck! Hopefully you can pull off that 8 second time. First run was just a show for the spectators.

AlkyIROC

Second time trial pass and my racing is over for the day. I pulled the front end up so high that I bent a rear fender and my boost posts dug into the track. I tried to pedal it but came down hard. As I was coasting down the track, my oil light came on. Zero oil pressure. Engine was still running so I think I broke the oil pump or pickup tube.

Tech came down to the end of the track while I was waiting to be towed back. I've been told to change the suspension setup or put on wheelie bars before making another pass.

60 foot times both with the back tires
First pass 1.387
Second pass 1.347

I'm done for the day. I should still be able to drive onto the trailer and into the garage when I get home with no oil pressure. Hard to say if I'll be ready to go by next Sunday. May have to wait 2 weeks to attend the last race of the season just so I can get parts and get some repairs done.

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

That's is crazy, hope it lines out easy.

87_TA

Congrats and Sorry... SOunded like 2 fun rides no less, I sound like you would certainly be pulling of an 8.xx.. I am going to order new wheelie bars for mine as well - gonna get the ones with springs on to stop unloading rear tires.. I still get about 1 revolution of spin right after bars contact.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

use a come-a-long to get it in the trailer!! Sorry to hear!

mikebondi

wow man.putting it on the bumper is definetly a show for the fans. i have got to see video of that thing. it sounds amazing.

AlkyIROC

I'm home and the car is in the garage. Still no oil pressure. It's really loud without the mufflers.

The girlfriends camera screwed up again. She was sure she was recording the second pass and apologized for swearing while recording but something went wrong and she didn't get any video.

I do however have in car video. As soon as I get it edited down and posted to youtube, I'll post the link. When the car goes up, all you can see is blue sky. It's pretty cool. A grandstand shot would have been even better. Judging by the scrapes on the back, I had to be pretty close to straight up or at least it looked like it from what I'm told.

I can also see my mistakes inside the car on the video. After I came down, I idled down since I knew the run was garbage but it took me a few seconds to realize I had no oil pressure. Once I shut the engine off, you can hear the fender rubbing on the tire as I coast down to the turn off spot.

AlkyIROC

Edited in car video is now online. I had the camera on through the staging lanes and didn't turn it off until I got back to the pits. A 20 minute video got edited down to 90 seconds. Audio is great especially since this was with open headers.

86iroc2try

Wow...yea we did thay with our chevelle yesterday once...its scary when youre all the way up and on the way back down. Re entry is hard...good luck with everything and being ready in 2 weeks!!!

ZONES89RS

iTrader: (2)

Dang, blue skys rough ride.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

ouchies.

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

" Houston... We have lift off...ummm... We have returned due to excessive torque issues "
Hope you get it fixed!!!
Dry sump??

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

where are your gloves?

AlkyIROC

IHRA rules. Not required until below 8.50. Mine are in my trailer.

After doing a bit of research, I think I'll be going with Competition Engineering C2140 wheelie bars. I'll need to call to see if they have them in stock tomorrow or can get them before Saturday. Tube steel, unsprung, 60" long.

Shagwell

Wow, the power is definitely improved, as is the bite!

Move the IC up a little, will tend to let the rear separate instead of pitch rotating the car, then you can tighten the shocks down & control it. Taking some AS out may be the better solution, allowing a little more wheel speed at the hit.

I made a similar out & down change just before this one:


It went on up, & dad picked the rear bumper up and carried it back to the trailer....

AlkyIROC

First pass, AS was 138%. Second pass when I moved the IC forward and lower slightly, it moved the AS to 110%. I'll need to move the IC below the AS line to soften the hit. Probably but the IC below the ground if I can.

Front shock extension was full tight on that pass and it did nothing to stop the front from coming up.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

where are your front limiters set at?

built91Z28

I'd of pee'd my pants

Shagwell

I'm currently still running ultra-cheapy monroe gas-matics up front, but I only have 1-2" of down travel pending set-up & conditions. I also run an overly hefty spring thus creating little stored energy.

That AS% is a big part of your issue for sure. It's trying to separate & dead hook the tire, thus it's pitch rotating & reaching for the sky. - I never run more than 100% AS, if anything less so that it can "get on the tire" quicker allowing me some wheel speed at the hit.

I had always approached IC height with the old adage of 10' pipe stuck in your belly button; lot easier to pick it up if the far end is sitting on a table than if it's sitting on the ground. - That said, there comes a point in power & traction that with the IC that much lower than the CG it tries to pick up/transfer that much further, and once you get over about 2' off the ground up front you get past the "point of no return" and they climb right on up.

red rock

iTrader: (2)

Can't help but think that had to been a rush. I can't even imagine what that kind of power hooking up feels like. Get the girl friend some camera classes, we need to see more. Thanks.

AlkyIROC

Girlfriend needs a new camera. The one she's using is old. Something like 6 megapixals. She's taken 10's of thousands of pictures with it. It's even had some issues with the lens cover not opening properly while taking still pictures. I had her try my video camera once and that was a lost cause.

My front end limiters were set for full extension. Can't say if that helped or hurt the run. At full extension, when the car came back down, the entire shock travel absorbed the landing. If I had the limiters restricting the travel, the landing may have been more violent.

My AS was set high from performance last ear. It was where the car seemed to like it giving me enough lift to plant the tires and make a good run. This new engine must be making much more torque and apparently I need to make some major adjustments.

I'm also running a new fuel pump and a new tune for the alcohol injection. Who knows, that alone may be what produced all that extra power. Maybe the old setup just wasn't giving the engine enough fuel. That launch was only 4500 rpm off the transbrake. Just think if I turn off the 2-step and launched at 6000+ rpm.

Local speed shop has the wheelie bars I want in stock. I'll pick them up Saturday morning. Not sure about the engine yet. So far it looks like it might just be a simple broken oil pump but I know the one I'm using isn't kept in stock. Moroso pump with a welded on pickup tube for an 8" deep pan. If I get the pan off tonight and all it needs is a pump, I might be able to get one ordered tomorrow so they could have it on Saturday. If I find bearing material in the pan or filter, my season is over.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

with the frontend limited to 3" or so, you probably wouldnt have had a wheelstand at all. wheelie bars will ensure it wont happen again, though.

greezemonkey

iTrader: (14)

glad to see it back out..hope you find the oil pressure problem and that its an easy fix! Awesome vid man, just wild! Engine sounds great

AlkyIROC

With all the things I need to do, I'll add that to the list. I know SuperGas cars have the limiters cranked up tight. External video would have showed so much more as to what the car was doing. Watching the in car footage, it doesn't look like it was going up from forward motion at the start. It looked more like I popped the front tires right out of the beams.

After a year of waiting to get back to the track, my first pass still got a 0.020 reaction time. I was probably a little nervous on the second pass and only got a 0.136.

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

i think we are running the same front shocks? spa-1s? i had mine full tight since the first time i ran the car, and once i got down into the 9.70 range it wanted to go up on the bumper every other pass. so i started limiting the front travel and it really helped out a ton. with 4" of travel it was still wanting to go on the bumper every other pass, though. 1.30 60's.
the spa-1's are just too fast for where im at now. i am going to swap to something slower acting.

AlkyIROC

SPA-1's on my car. As I was jacking up the car to start pulling the pan, I adjusted the limiters to 3" of travel.

I got pics. Pan is off and the pump is fine. There's outer bearing material in the filter so I think I'll pull the engine to have it properly cleaned. I don't think there's any damage to rods, crank etc but I don't want any bearing material trapped in a gallery somewhere.

Possible causes for the oil pressure loss. I don't use an adjustable collar distributor and it's possible the oil pump drive shaft disengaged from the distributor. Second possible cause is the oil pan got hit just enough to push it up against the pickup tube screen however the pan doesn't look damaged enough for that.

I wish the pump was broken. It would have been an easier explanation for the oil pressure loss.

AlkyIROC

zraffz

Dude you are my hero lol

AlkyIROC

And the car has had a lot of fans for a number of years now. I really need to get off my butt and update my web page now.

That's the beauty of a flat black paint job. I can touch up that damage in a few minutes however I don't think I ever will. My one time glory run that I don't want to repeat. Keep the scuffed up rear bumper as a reminder of what the car can do and explain to people that the damage was done by the track surface and not by backing unto something.

So I'll start striping down the engine to get it out of the car soon. No big rush. Racing season doesn't start up again until May 2013 however it all needs to be put back together before the end of March when I need to go get a new chassis certification. My 3 years are up.

This reassembly won't be as bad as the last time. All the stuff I was waiting for to put the engine together, I now have. Setting up the Milodon gear drive system and shaft rockers took a long time as I was always waiting for parts. All the engine should need is a good cleaning and inspection. Put in new bearings and reassemble. The bearing material doesn't look like there's any major damage to the rotating assembly but I'll get the machine shop to check it all out and put the shortblock back together again. They have the tools to do all the proper measurements and check the tolerances better than I can do.

After this one race day, there's things I want to change now and it will be a lot easier with the engine out. No 8 second timeslip this year but next year, look out!

Shagwell

Sucks, but at the same time things could have been a lot worse. The annoying part is not having a good photo or video of it to laugh about later on.

AlkyIROC

Yup. Car goes very straight on the back tires. That anti-roll bar works well. Steering wheel didn't even shake when the tires came back down. It could have easily rolled over or went crooked and come down on top of the wall.

87_TA

I have to say - that is Bad A$$... Does sound great too!
I would get the sprung bars maybe - I am switching my solid bars to sprung on the Vega I think, STill unloads tires at max height and get about 1 revolution of tires, still goes straight and consistant but could easily not.

I also may try running mine much lower now, with the 3 speed I could not as it hit to hard to soon, I think the glide is much more gradual now and may stop the lift before making to much power.

AlkyIROC

Sprung bars are good for a small tire car. Not mine.

AlkyIROC

Oh, I was looking over my logs finally since I wasn't really paying attention at the time. Based on last year's performance and I'm pretty sure I'm doing much better now, the lower elevation track and good air should have gotten me a 8.7 ET. Right now, I can only dream.

Before we started racing, one of the racers asked me how fast I'd be going. I said I should get an 8 second timeslip. He replied that I should enter in the track's Top Eliminator class. Payouts are much better. I've seen the class and have considered it but not at this time. Maximum dial in is 8.90. Entry fee is $50 for car and driver plus $125 to run in the class each race day. Winner gets $5000, runner up $850, semi's $400, quarters $100

The only downside to the class is an engine diaper is mandatory. A belly pan like I have isn't allowed. Guess that means I'll just keep running in the Box class. (SuperPro to you NHRA racers)

87_TA

Seems I should have researched more before suggesting, I run a large tire as well and am unloading tire when it hits bars, seems I may want a longer bar or lower mine more.

Good Luck

AlkyIROC

Longer yes. Lower depends on how high you want the front end to come up. Short bars usually have the wheels 2-3" off the ground. Long bars have the wheels 5-6" off the ground. The front of the car will come up the same distance.

Also to prevent the wheelie bars from steering the car, the left wheel should be about 1/2" higher than the right.

Those leaf spring bars are normally 48" and less. The tubular bars I'll be getting are 60". I don't need 80" promod bars.

AlkyIROC

Did some testing. I bolted the pump back on then lifted the shaft up as high as it would go. The slot in the pump was exposed and using a small screwdriver, I was able to turn the shaft of the pump. The drive shaft didn't turn while being held up. I pulled the distributor and everything looked fine so there's nothing wrong with the gear portion.

Only obvious problem was that the shaft between the distributor and oil pump isn't quite long enough and when the car hit, the shaft was forced down far enough that the distributor disengaged and stopped turning it. There was just enough shaft to grab the distributor when it was assembled and was able to spin the pump enough to make 60 psi of pressure.

There's zero damage to the pump or bottom of the pan. Just that slight dent at the front of the pan but that's forward of the pickup and behind a trap door.

I have 2 options. There's a longer oil pump drive shaft available that's about 3/16" longer or buy a new distributor with an adjustable slip collar to drop the distributor down more. I think the longer pump shaft may work out.

Dakota W.

God I would've loved to ride shotgun...

Shagwell

Longer bars are basically a "controlled spring". The longer the bars the more they will flex, thus the lower you can set the height; getting them on the ground sooner and allowing a more gradual unload/tire slip. - Unlike a sprung bar, they don't have any stored energy and the rate is more linear.

Don't automatically set the wheels up at different heights. Some cars will have the need, some won't. The amount of pre-load & anit-roll bar play a big roll in whether or not you will need to steer the car with the bars. - I've been past the 330' clocks a couple times still riding the bars perfectly straight and mine are level.



Alky, if you're already running an aftermarket aluminum bodied dist you may be able to simply have the built-in coller machined off & just buy the slip collar clamp piece itself. - I've done that a couple times on MSD billet dizzy's, and once with an older accel back in the day. Cost me maybe $40ish total, even with selling the standard one used there would have been more difference than that in picking up a new slip-collar unit.

1gary

With a lost of oil pressure at those RMP's,are you sure you don't want to look into the engine further??. Just a thought.........

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

gary, he said he was going to disassemble and have the machine shop check tolerances.

AlkyIROC

I never considered that but that sounds like a better option than a new distributor.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

have you considered putting a priming tool on it to see if the pressure will come back up and that was infact your problem? of course, at this point in the process, you may as well just go back to the machine shop...

AlkyIROC

I would have to put the pan back on and put the oil back in. Oil is now in a waste pail. I could put the pump into a bucket of oil and spin it with a drill to see it it pumps but it was still full of oil when I took it off and a turned the shaft to pump the rest of the oil out if it so I know the pump is still good. You need some pretty big damage to have a pump fail.

1gary

I must have missed that.Not sure if it where me,I would want to test prime the oil pump in the case of if there is debree hidden in the engine. I think would take the heads/valve train in too to be checked out. Total flush out.

AlkyIROC

Confirmation.

I bought a new distributor. It gave me a chance to buy a different style that fits behind the tunnel ram better. Smaller body, shorter cap.

After mocking up the intake on the engine, I did some measurements to see that a very small portion of the distributor drive was making contact with the pump drive shaft.

I then dropped in the new distributor and adjusted the collar as per instruction. Pulled it out and measured it against the old one. Very noticeable difference. Word of advice. If you're going to buy an aftermarket distributor, get one with an adjustable slip collar. My old one has to be at least 10 years old now and has worked well up to this point. I already swapped the bronze gear from the old distributor to the new one.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

Wow. I thought your motor was a standard height deck? What causes the geometry issue?

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

if its a standard deck height, i would inspect the pump and driveshaft for the dizzy very closely. the only thing that makes sense to me at this point would be the pump is somehow broken or distorted, or maybe the driveshaft. it is very odd you didnt have any issues like this until you came down real hard like you did. and the front of the pan has definately been mashed there on the front.

AlkyIROC

Standard height block. I haven't taken the oil pump apart yet for inspection and cleaning but so far, I don't see anything wrong with it. Pump drive shaft is ok and straight.

The dent/wrinkle at the front of the pan is nowhere near the pump. The front of the pan is it's own sump area behind a trap door and the door isn't damaged. There are no marks on the bottom inside of the pan under the pickup screen so the pan never contacted the screen or pump.