gregl316

iTrader: (1)

It is time to try to tune my car again. I have the suspension done time o put it to the test.

I have a 91 RS that I put a Vortec 350 in with all the goodies. I have an EBL and am making some headway with the help of BobR who built it but I still feel it should run better. Does anyone in the PDX area know how to get the most out of it or can tel me who to go to? Is this Wong place in Vancouver worth it? I told him had an EBL and he didn't know what I was talking about.

I'd love to get this running good so I can put it away for the winter.

Thanks

gregl316

iTrader: (1)

Well I'm at witts end. I have asked a couple questions and am not getting any help any more. No one in the PNW must drive a tricked out 3rd gen.

ASE doc

I beg to differ my PNW friend. Lol. I happen to be in Aurora, OR about 40 miles south of P town. I run a max effort 355TPI with ACCEL DFI, the early gen 6 system. A little limited and hard to get it really perfect, especially with the TPI at this power level, but it works pretty well. As far as tuning goes, I built mine 15 years ago, and while I've made upgrades since the original build, the tune has been an ongoing issue. Even though it runs like a beast, I still spend at least a few days each summer trying to squeeze just a little more out of it.

What I realize now after all of this headache is that dyno tuning is really the answer. Getting the car on a chassis dyno where AFR and head temp can be monitored while you gradually put the juice to it is the only sane way to tune a car. This way you can see the actual WHP results and all in a safe and legal setting. I've already had two tickets and alot of dirty looks opening the car up on the public roadway. 430HP wide open on the freeway isn't likely to win any popularity contests. Even on the back roads around my home, I am very aware of people's homes and how they might feel about me smoking my tires and grabbing gears to 100mph past their front yard. Test and tune sessions at the dragstrip are great but unless you have good datalogging and know how to make sense of what you log, it's not real effective. $200 or so at the the tuner's is a bargain really. Just be sure you find a good shop. I don't know who Wong is and I'm not familiar with too many around Portland except Auto Repair Specialties in Gresham. I've spoken with them and may get my car to them this summer. There are alot of dyno tuning shops in the area though.

gregl316

iTrader: (1)

I agree about the dyno. I will check out the shop in Gresham. Wonge's in Vancouver doesn't know the EBL and tuner pro. Wonge's said they could burn me a chip with no problem.

Do you use an EBL? I'm thinking I should just buy a stock ECM and get the chip. I don't know why I need an EBL. I mean it works fine I just don't know why it makes a differance. My motor is very simple and has been done befor so tuning should be done allready. I had to start from scratch. I just what it to run the best it can, I am just tired of tell everyone it just needs to be tuned. I am embaresed I have a lot of money in this car.

Krazzycowgirl

Tom Wong is great & does new stuff. Ok with that said, if you are always tuning your car & getting chips done, then maybe its time to upgrade.

I ended up going with the mega squirt system, of course my car has never ran since several people have screwed me over. but once I can get the car running again I will be sticking with the mega squirt system

gregl316

iTrader: (1)

I have an EBL so I can always tune when ever I want I am just at wits end doing it. Tommy Wong's place doesn't know the EBL. But he does know Tuner Pro. But he is to busy to get me in.

Oh and when is the PNWCC meeting and where? I just didn't feel rite driving my Pontiac to a Camaro meeting. My baby is on the road

Krazzycowgirl

Pnwcc meetings are in the sea tac area on the last Saturday of the month except nov & dec. (nov they are the weekend before thanksgiving & dec we do not have one)

a little closer to you is Columbian river Camaro club I think they meet on Tuesday night.

gregl316

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry there is a club that meets in Portland I think their a branch of PNWCC.

ASE doc

I run ACCEL DFI. Mine is the late gen 6(built the car in 99) and I tune with Calmap 6.32 or whichever the last version was, can't remember right now. It's similar to the EBL in that it uses an EPROM so it's constantly tunable, no burning chips. Changes can be made any time just by connecting my laptop. The EPROM is, in my opinion, miles ahead of the factory ECM because it allows for real time adjustments in case something is a little off. Burning chips, unless the chip writer is right there while your tuning the car and doesn't mind burning chip after chip to make adjustments, will never get you as close to optimum as EPROM tuning. If you have any functional issues with the EBL, talk to RBob on this forum. He seems to be very familiar with the system.

One value of a tuning shop, aside from a safe and legal place to open up the throttle and if you are not real sure about what variables will make more power and/or if you are concerned for the safety of your engine, is that they should know what healthy timing and fuel curves are for your motor and how to ease into power tuning. Different EFI systems use different map structures. Some are VE based, most early systems like the DFI 6, use a basic SD fuel map with engine speed and MAP as the x and y axis. An experienced tuner should be able to quickly recognize the system's tuning parameters.

The strength of Auto Specialties may be that they are Vette specialists and might be more familiar with V8 engines than someone who works more with imports. Of course optimum AFR and timing are pretty much the same for most any NA engine. The key is getting to optimum without going too far and hurting your motor. I have been in touch with the NW F-body club. I just missed dyno day last year. Not really a tuning opportunity since time would be limited but a chance anyway to see where you are. I may have a guy's number who is involved with the group. If you want it, PM me and I'll try to find it.

Krazzycowgirl

no they are not they are their own club, they are a sister club to us though

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Turbo Tech in Tacoma ( has a rear wheel dyno) or Ellis Groo ( who uses TTIT's dyno) at Speed Secrets.

Al Hasse

I'd come down and help, but you're a bit of a drive for me. I also use the EBL on a mild Vortec 383 TBI build. I haven't had to touch it for some time, so I'd be a bit rusty, as well as being sort of a novice at it...

Just in case you're interested, here's a link to the dyno the Cascade Crew uses every year. Steve is really good and knowledgeable. Not sure how well he knows EBL, but pretty sure he knows how to use Tuner Pro.

http://www.modernclassicsauto.com/

gregl316

iTrader: (1)

thanks for the offer. I am just a bit lost . I just need to get the terminology straight . I have never done this technal of a build before. I'm used to springs and weights.

gregl316

iTrader: (1)

I contacted them and tried to set an appointment. They are busy. I asked them if they know the EBL/Tuner Pro and they said no. But they said it wouldn't be a problem. My car is running better every day but just not rite yet and the weather is getting bad.

I am doing brakes too and am having problems with them. If it isn't one thing it's another.

ASE doc

Off topic:

I gave up on the OE 3rd gen brakes. GM was always behind on their brake systems, giving their cars the bare minimum to get by. The 3rd gen brakes are the same sad, tiny Delco Moraine junk that came on the 70s GM cars with disc option. With 400+hp and low vacuum, the stock brakes are dangerously inadequate.

I went to Ed Miller at Fly N Bye. They make great brake sets specifically for the 3rd gens. The 13" fronts with Wilwood 4 piston calipers fit the 16" IROC wheels and come complete with knuckles and pre-installed hubs. They convert our cars to the new style slap on rotors instead of the crappy one piece hub/rotor. I run these with Ed's 12"(4th gen) rears with aluminum calipers. The 4th gen got away from the integral parking brake that always caused problems. Instead, you get a great, light weight large bore caliper and a separate band type parking brake. The kit comes with all the cables and lines for a bolt on installation. Even with only 14" vacuum at idle from my Beasty 355, I have awesome brakes now.

One note on Fly N Bye, Ed is a one man show(at least he was at the time I worked with him) and does this on the side(he's something like a nuclear physicist the rest of the time). Therefore, prepare to wait some time to get your stuff. I waited 6 months and in hindsight I am very pleased that I went with him on the brakes. No one else offers anything like this for our cars.

Terrence1725

Question 1 what's EBL?Question 2 I live in Leavenworth WA I'm looking for a place to get a tune any help?

Al Hasse

I can answer the first question..

http://www.dynamicefi.com/

It's the brainchild of RBob here on the forums. I have soldering skills, so I purchased the self install version. I took my ECM to work and had it modified within 15 minutes on my break. Tuning is also much easier with a Wide Band O2 as an input.

Terrence1725

So ebl is something I have to do myself? I'm confused

Terrence1725

I know nothing about tuning my excuse is I'm 21 years old and trying to focus on school and being a fire fighter lol ask something about fighting fire I know a lot about that lol tuning I know how to spell and that when I do mods I need a tune lol

gregl316

iTrader: (1)

why is a wide band o2 better then a narrow band? so how do Ichange? Rite now I am putting in a vrfpr.

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

A narrow band 02 sensor is only made to be accurate at 14.7:1. As it goes rich or lean, the accuracy drops off very very quickly. Basically it will tell you if it is rich or lean, but not much outside of that. A wide band 02 will be accurate in a much larger range.

Terrence1725

Where is the O2 sensor? I'm fairly new to this but learning quick

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

The 02 sensor is in the drivers side exhaust manifold. It's tucked down in there, facing forward. Has a single purple (as I recall) wire going to it.

To note, the OEM ECM needs a narrow band 02 to properly function without custom coding. You can't just replace it with a wideband one.

Terrence1725

Oh ok have u done this?

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

No, never had a reason to. Most people will install a wideband 02 as a tuning device, not something to run the car on. There are hacks that will allow you to run the wideband 02 output into TunerPro and other tuning software, which is what most people do.

Terrence1725

Do u know how to tune an do u have the equipment?

AmorgetRS

iTrader: (6)

I have a selection of tuning equipment, however I haven't really used it. My tuning experience is limited to a 350 T-5 swap and some minor tuning on my 2000 TA when I installed a turbo on it.

gregl316

iTrader: (1)

I have an appointment with Tommy Wongs of Vancouver. He isn't up to speed with an EBL. I hope to hell he can figure it out and teach me how to tweak it. Rite now I am wishing I kept the factory computer and had him burn a chip or two. But that's just a year of messing with it a loosing faith. I am sure this is the way to go.

gregl316

iTrader: (1)

Back from "Wongs Performance" This guy is good but he knew nothing about an EBL. So I bought a stock computter and he burn't me a chip. My car is running great and I don't have to worry about keeping my lap top in the car with me anymore.

So if any one out there would like to buy an EBL from Dynamic EFI with the adapter I have one. I would love to see it go to someone that can use it. It works awsome and has indefinate tuning possibilitys I just could get it. It's an age thing.