Farlandar

I'm in the process of saving money to install a weiand 177 blower to my 350 engine. I want to add a 3-port holley air intake on top of the carb, preferrably coming out of the hood. I need feedback from anybody who has attempted this setup about how high the intake manifold needs to be to clear the hood. Also, how to connect the throttle linkage to the air intake. Thanks.

sleepybu

Cronic3rd

I'm thinin he means the chrome scoop with the butterflys.

The hood is pretty low on 3rd gens so O doubt that you will have problems getting the scoop to clear a stock hood.

sleepybu

i c :yourock:



theres no way a 177 blower will fit under the hood, not even a 4" cowl. A b&m 144 dose but don't know about the scoop

Cronic3rd

My thoughts exactly. I'm thinkin he might even get a little chrome out too - def some carb.

Spectre

well he did imply 'coming out' of the hood.
the carbs with stick out half way I think.

U should check the laws.

Isnt it Illegal to have something sticking out of the hood
(depending on the hight ofcourse)

It might cause visibility problems.

bEtUr4dRustang

I take it there is no roots blower that will fit under a stock hood?

Cronic3rd

I believe the "Baby Blower" will (142 or 144 ci). And eatons are roots blowers and they can be mounted anywhere.

bEtUr4dRustang

Yeah, dual M90s a la Saturn 5 has been on my mind a lot these days.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

you can mount any of them anyplace you want... all it takes is some imagination and getting a little dirty. How about 2 144’s or a single 177 or 6-71 mounted over a valve cover?

If I remember right, a 6-71 is smaller then a TPI setup... I’m picturing something like a low profile inlet draped over it mounting a TPI style TB on either side over the valve covers, with injectors spraying right into the blower… I suppose that if you wanted to you could go low tech and use sidedraft carbs… you should be able to get it to fit with at most a 2” cowl hood if your fairly ambitious about it

Cronic3rd

But what would be the point? Cooleness? IMHO the cooleness of going with a roots style blower is the chrome sticking out of the hood. If you want stealth there are milloins of better ways than roots supercharging.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Steath and how you make power is mutually exclusive... if you want to show it off you can always mount 2 20# bottles under the hatch, cut an intake thorugh the bumper for a turbo, run your big cammed NA engine with turn downs under the car so everybody can feel the badass bass shaking the ground.

If you want stealth, mount the bottles under the covers in the hatch, setup an intake to take air out of the fender, run a full length exhaust...

he was talking about what will fit under the hood, I was just throwing out ideas how to make 'more' fit under the hood.

bEtUr4dRustang

cana 6-71 be mounted in any orientation like a M90? And the ones that sell on ebay as freshly taken off the big diesels and rebuilt...i take it i need a snout or something to get a pulley on to turn it over?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Am I sure? No, I’ve never taken one apart to tell for sure. Did I ever see an Eaton mounted sideways before we did it? No, but we took it apart and took a good look at it to see what if anything would break if we did.

I’ve seen the more traditional roots blowers mounted in all sorts of weird positions, but not necessarily on engines… they’re used by some industrial vacuuming (carpet steam cleaning, duct cleaning…) vans.

I’m not sure I’m following the snout question.

- mmp

bEtUr4dRustang

To use a 6-71...and EFI

Put the throttle body infront of the blower.
mount blower over the valve cover.

A. route blower down into a single plane carb manifold with bungs for injectors and run a 749 ecm?

B. Run it right into a TPI plenum. In which case, why put the TB in front of the blower? Would this let you not use a BOV? Or are you running two throttle bodies in front of the blower with only one with sensors but linked so they both open together the same amount?

C. Why mount injectors so they fire right into the blower? That would make the carb intake idea much easier but what computer/injectors to use? 90lb TBI injectors mounted custom behind the TPI throttle bodies?

I'd like to keep this idea to strictly GM or I guess Ford stuff I could strip at a junkyard or find online.

MrDude_1

wanna really be sneaky and still run a roots ?


i would look into some of the crank driven roots blowers that they run on the salt flats... the blower is in line with the crank..



athough you will have to figure out how you're going to run your radiator......

bEtUr4dRustang

snout question:

As in , what do i need to get this 6-71 or any other right off the diesel 6-71 into a running ready to bolt to wherever i need it supercharger?

None of the ones on ebay have any sort of front or back and i have seen conversion kits but they don't have the pulley mounting accessories, just front and back kits.

bEtUr4dRustang

well M90s seem great at the moment. They are cheap, relatively easy to fabricate together, not taking any credit away from saturn 5, but i am looking at these over turbos cause it seems like it would be a whole lot easier.

I'm looking for relatively cheap, relatively good, and relatively fast here. I know its hard to get all three but M90s seem to meet it quite effectly. I don't know how cheap a 6-71 would be incomparison to dual M90s but it would give you a whole lot more blower to work with when you are finished and say move up in the world of displacement.

bEtUr4dRustang

Even something similiar to this. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33553

But still, what computer do you run the injectors with...

Does a 6-71 need to have a wet setup in terms of gasoline? Can you not inject gas after the blower?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Last I heard, most roots blowers are designed to keep cool via the fuel sprayed through them (I don’t know now much I believe that since the original application was on the exhaust side of a 2 stroke and the vacuum applications don’t have any fuel going through them)

So no t-bird M90’s? Who cares where parts come from if they work?

heh… that would be pretty cool… plenty of cold air, simple packaging… Run 2 honda radiators or something similar (they use a radiator on one side, and AC on the other, so it’s only half width) or something custom built… or mount it across the air intake in the nose (parallel to the ground)I really like that idea… eliminate the front bearing wear associated with running a blower also, lower your CG

MrDude_1

if you ever find out for sure, post it... im kinda wondering myself...

my personal belief is that the teflon coated rotors need it, but the older ones with just close clearances dont..... but im guessing.. im not setup to test that in anyway...


ive been thinking about that since i first read about them... i didnt have my first camaro yet, so i had to be younger then 14.... *shrug*

if i ever become rich, thats one of the things that are further down the list of things to do.... my 69 chevelle convertible and my 3rdgen camaro vert come first... then the small block street CRX... then i wanna try somthing turbo...............

bEtUr4dRustang

Ok

SO with the injectors behind the throttle body but infront of the blower, what computer do i use to control them? It would be good to have the 749 but it seems like a waste of a lot of computer calculations if the sequence of the injectors is irrelevant.


Is an LS1 throttle body big enough to do the job alone and would it be compatible with the 749 setup or a 730 repinned with a $58 bin for a 749?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

before the blower for a normal roots… after for an eaton (I don’t believe that the bearing seals in them will hold up to gas).

The 749 fires all the injectors at once.

If the TB is going in front of the blower then the bigger the better, but what is necessary before becoming a restriction is dependant on the total HP produced… I don’t know what parts you’re starting with or your goals so I don’t know what to really tell you, but if you’ve got a TPI the stock 48mm TB will probably be good for around 500hp, a 1000cfm 58mm would be good into the high 700hp range.

ECM is dependant on how you set things up, but I suspect that if you put the TB and TPS in front of the blower you will have an easier time ignoring the boost and just treating it as a bigger NA engine. The TB will pretty much see conditions similar to that, and if that’s what you are doing I’d use a maf or a map connected before the blower.

Injectors would have to be boost referenced if mounted after the blower but not if before.

FWIW, I wouldn’t run the TB before the blower unless the blower is permanently mounted to the engine. If not, if you have ducting between the blower and the TB, if the ducting blows off (everyone with a blower or turbos eventually has this happen) the essentially your engine will be running at WOT right when you most don’t want that to happen (usually, it blows off when you let go of the throttle).

bEtUr4dRustang

another question was.
The fuel probably wouldn't stay in suspension from the blower and down a 4inch tube and into the top of say a victor junior intake.

I also was looking at pictures and thinking back to car shows...i am not so sure this thing can fit mounted over a valve cover lol

Kingtal0n

FWIW, I wouldn’t run the TB before the blower unless the blower is permanently mounted to the engine. If not, if you have ducting between the blower and the TB, if the ducting blows off (everyone with a blower or turbos eventually has this happen) the essentially your engine will be running at WOT right when you most don’t want that to happen (usually, it blows off when you let go of the throttle). [/B][/QUOTE]



I dont think that would be a problem because there is no boost before the blower, only vacuum, so i doubt vacuum is going to blow his ducting off.

however if it ever DOES slip off, it will be a problem.

not that it matters, but i thought i would point this out.

614Streets

Good luck with the 177, share pictures if you can.