Charged350

iTrader: (1)

i need some good turbo headers, i see the stuff on ebay and really dont like whimpy lookin stuff that the flanges might break on...id like a twin turbo setup and the motor is built to hold over 20 pounds of boost, i was going to procharge the car, but i think a twin turbo setup would be more radical in a show car iroc that gets beaten on more then it deserves...im not sure which turbos i will go with sumthing that will spool up fast so i have decent take off and not just top end...any suggestions....and i think i can put this together cheaper then a procharger...

by teh way the motor is carbed...and will stay that way will that pose any issues...since turbos like FI...

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

turbo's love carbs too!!! Trust me! If you dont want the ebay ones you'll have to make your own. You can buy aftermarket ones like banks but you'll pay a pretty penny for some cast logs. To have a shop weld you some up will be in upwards of 1500-2000. They are not hard to make yourself, with a basic welder and a saw, you can cut them and just tack weld them and have a shop finish weld them (should cost less than $100 to finish weld)

For turbos, it depends on the size of the engine. anything between 57-67mm's will make alot of power on a v8.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

im pretty good with a welder since i work at a body shop, and i think one of my friends has a tube bender its just deciding what turbo to go with for teh flange design, its a carbed 355 with all forged internals and 7.5:1 compression, blower turbo cam, same pistons, ported and polished vic jr heads and matched intake and a 750 double pumper, im lookin for a max of 650 to 700 at full boost...

and where can i purchase just the header flanges so i can start designing the header at least mentally now....you wouldnt have any pics of any turbo headers in a camaro....if you do that would help a lot...

grover85

iTrader: (1)

Just buy a header kit from summet or jegs. It comes with a bunch of bent pipes and flanges.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

you're going to want 1/2 flanges for the headers not just the basic summit header kit.

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

you're on the right track. That CR is pretty low, but you'll be able to put ALOT of air through that motor. It might be pretty sluggish at part throttle and off the line.

and like xpndbl3 said, you're going to want 1/2" thick flanges and 16ga tubing at the least.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

i was thinking of using a set of edelbrock headers and turning them upside down and using the flanges and some of the piping and make my own collector and turbo flange....that should work, the motor has solid motor moutns so i can even make supports to help hold up the turbos and not crack the flanges as i heard that is an issue sumtimes...

Now what kind of turbos would be proper for this engine...

it is sluggish of the line but after that this thing gets up and goes even tho its NA now, i can imagine under boost, its gonna be an animal...

so what should be included in my shopping list after im done with the headers, which turbines would be best and waste gates, boost controler, where is the best to get an oil supply and which lines are good to use....and where do you put the return line of the turbos, i really dont want to tap my pan...i was going to use one of the block holes to supply the turbos with oil pressure, i dont know where to put the return line...any suggestion....and any pics of twin turbo setups in camaros would help a lot...thanx....

Batass

Your car is still going to flex. And the motor is going to vibrate. I wouldnt brace the turbos to the car anywhere. Ive only ever seen return lines go to the pan. Its easy to do, getting the pan off is the hard part. I just used some brass fittings. I suppose you could dump it in the valve cover, as long as you had enough pressure to push it up to them, and had a second hole on that cover for a breather. You could also drill and tap your intake manifold, to dump it below that. But then you have a lot of oil running onto your cam which will create extra windage, and some power loss. Not to mention that oil coming out is very very hot and really should go back to the pan.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Get the feed from the port by the dizzy or above the oil filter.
Use a -8AN to -12 AN return line to the pan (I prefer -12AN)
Mcmaster.com 304 S/S schedule 10 pipe is a good buy in terms of weight and strength if you have a TIG machine.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

No the turbo will smoke like crazy from having the oil back up and push past the seals. Oil drains are just that DRAINS. they must go down. Only change would be a rear mount would require an oil pump of some sort added which is not needed for a front mount turbo.

Batass

If you want your turbo bearings to last a while, you should use the port above the oil filter, and get freshly filtered oil. Might even get more pressure there.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

ok so i have decided that im going to get the oil from above the oil filter becasuse my oil gauge is hooked up to the hole behind the dizzy, and im going to run a t fitting on that line and run a line from that T to each turbo from the t fitting, now i rather not tap my pan for the return so does anyone have any ideas on where to stick the return line.....

And here is my new idea, ebay turbo kit, 1000 bux with everything...now b4 you start bashing the kit, i know its from ebay, and i kno its not the greatest quality, but also remember the car is not a daily driver, maybe 10 times a year in the summer and to teh track maybe 2 or so a year since there is no track in NY and i have to trailer it to nj, its a fast show car basically and i dont drive her a lot at all and this kit is complete and saves me fishing for parts and designing a whole system by myself, the t4 turbos will spool up fast which i like and two of them will be more then enough to make 700 horse in this motor with ease at low boost, and the headers look like they have nice thinck flanges ...and remember, if it breaks i can always fix it since im good at welding and i built cars for a living...i need boost in this car and its cheaper then a 177 blower and a lot cheaper then a procharger and a lot more custom then any of the above here the car and the kit and the headers...which are stainless steel by the way....

suggestions ...comments let me know...

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ I think you should stick with a single turbo setup, and scrap the twin turbo ebay idea. Some of the Magna member's here are running easy 10's with they're single turbo powered TTA's, so twin's, although look impressive, are really not necessary. I just bought back my old '98 Trans Am, so my '91 Formula is on hold again, but a single T88 will eventually find it's way in the Formula before the July meet. I thought about twins too, but the added weight is unnecessary, it'll be easier to change the plugs, and a single will easily get me where I want to go....

Batass

He's right. Twins will spool up quicker thats it. What rpm will you leave the line at? Its funny I was just looking at that kit on there the other day. It is a damn good deal. Flanges are thick, but the header primaries look real thin. Super thin.
Intercooler- 100 bucks
Turbos-Cheap ones-200-250 apiece
tubing-100 bucks
headers-not sure but they can get real expensive
restuvthestuff-200
So your spending 350 on the headers. They really havent done any work for you, the only thing I would do is look around for better headers. If you can find better ones at a decent price, Id build my own. A good deal nonetheless. Should make over 700hp. Even the cheap t3/t4 support 450 I think.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

i see what you guys are saying, but i rather do the twins, for teh quick spool efect, the way it looks and the custom affect for the car shows and for the price of the kit cant be beat, i work 6 days a week at my body shop so time to run around and fab up stuff is really hard to find, so getting a complete kit like that will be nice...and another reason i want the twins is because i have super comp hooker headers on the car which are almost 500 bux new so i can sell them and help to ofset the cost of the kit, since i did jus purchase a 9 inch rear with locker and 4 11's ...money is gettin tight to say the least...so i think im going to go with this kit...unless its complete garbage...but it looks pretty good to me....

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ It'll definitely spool quicker with the twins no doubt, but if this is going on a torque monster like the 454 in your profile, getting it to spool earlier will be the least of your problems, as that 454 will catapult you off the line with no turbo's, let alone one or two lol....

Batass

Right, you dont want too much power off line. If it doesnt hook, its power wasted. Unless you have a real low stall. Or you could just go easy with the gas and get into it at like 70mph.

383backinblack

I was at an annual dinner with preston smith last night, and he intimated to me that he's changing out his custom 321 stainless turbo headers for 1963 corvette ramhorn cast iron manifolds..... i'll be keeping close tabs on how it works out.

Batass

Because they are more sturdy? The ones that come with the basic banks kit are cast iron block huggers too. I wonder if it doesnt make a big difference to run good headers before the turbo......????

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

.... ahh, the legendary Preston Smith. Member TPI-454 posted up an old magazine article about him a few years back, running tens w/just a Vortech inspired 305. He has one of the cleanest engine bays I have ever seen. Here is a pic w/turbo in tact hosted by TPI383;

Batass

thats a 9.9 second car. I cant imagine how high the psi must be with the tpi. Also a 4" bore. So is it a destroked 350? Way off topic here......

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

^ Here is the thread, Click here....

-Rob

383backinblack

9.6 @ 143 last year

same turbo setup thats been on there for years, this year though he got a set of afr 195cc eliminator heads, and changing to thsoe manifolds.

he seems to think that he'll spool faster, but lose just a little up top.....but the car might ET better.

all on 93 octane btw.....totally streetable, a/c etc.....it has a 3" stroke

i know last year he was hitting about 26-28psi

Batass

Sheesh. Thats around a thousand hp. 93 octane, good heavens. Know where theres any videos?

383backinblack

there was some old ones before, im not sure where they are though

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

If I can find the videos I have I'll upload em with the rest of the pic's and article I have on his car.

Those AFR heads should make a bif. Diff. from the TFS heads he had on that motor.

Batass

I dont know, if they are the same intake and exhaust runner size, I wouldnt expect a big difference. It will be interesting to see. I think he was running G2s? They are the old trickflows right? Not the twisted wedges?

383backinblack

the runner size doesnt mean much.......he said he gained 40hp from a marginal increase in flow at .500 lift, like everyone else finds out the hard way, how much the heads flow is only a small part of the power production story.

thats why afr's get outflowed occasionally but still manage to thrash the higher flowing heads in dyno tests......port velocity, design, and port efficiencey along with combustion chamber design all play a major role

on top of that, the new eliminator heads from afr are showing a dramatic improvement over the previous design of afr heads.

Batass

I agree with you, but with forced induction, I dont know. If he gained 50hp at his power level, I would say for time and money, not worth it. Itll be interesting. But if he gained 40 from a marginal increase, well then I guess I wouldnt be surprised if he gained 150. I cant wait to see. Im no expert, but ive seen supercharged vortec engines vs larger fastburn heads and only an increase of 30hp.

383backinblack

dude......a fastburn head?

thats like a cast iron head compared to an AFR race head......not even the same world.

and when you're talking about a 305ci engine that makes somewhere around 1000hp, suddenly there arent any 100+ hp gains to be made anymore......you have to fight tooth and nail for HP, and 40hp is a big deal.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

More Info for those who want to know.......
BLOCK Bowtie 4.025” bore x 3.0” stroke-305 cu/in.

RODS Crower 6”

PISTONS J.E. 8.25 C.R.

CAM Crower hyd. roller 114° L.S.- .520” lift.

HEADS Trickflow G2 - 2.02” int. (275 CFM) – 1.6” exh. (210 cfm)


INTAKE

LOWER Stock, extrude honed.

RUNNERS A.S.M. TPI

PLENUM Stock, extensively modified.

THROTTLE BODY A.S.M. 58 mm.


INDUCTION

TURBO Innovative GT-76 ball bearing Q-Trim.

INTERCOOLER Spearco air-to-air with 3” Alum. tubing.

Batass

Your right, as far numbers go, it is a big deal, and for his project it would be. But as far as seat of the pants feeling, it wouldnt be. But thats not his goal there. I guess I missed the point.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

ok so back to my topic here lol....im going to go with this kit...should be more then enough for what i want to do with the car, and if i want more, i can always go bigger, now my new question is.....what kinda fuel pump would i need ...external electric or mechanical to feed this thing and what kind of carb will i need to run...so carb and fuel pump....and i need a boost carb hat...

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

my advice would to just buy the headers. Get a BOV off there too. And spend the money on some master power turbos. You can get them for roughly $500 a piece brand new and they are quality pieces. For fuel pumps i would reccomend the Aeromotive A-1000 or the Magnafuel Prostar 500 (which is what i run). Combine that with an aeromotive p/n 13202 regulator and a CSU prepped carb, and you have an awesome fuel system that has proven it self many times. You can also get a carb hat from CSU.

Batass

The mighty demon is good for low budget under 10 psi builds. But most turbos will surpass that. I use an extreme velocity carb hat, they are supposed to be the best? Cost 300 bucks better $#@@#% be.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

yeah i was looking at the a-1000 from aeromotive for a fuel pump, and i think im gonna go with everyhting in that kit, since i really dont drive the car a lot at all, so i should be fine with that...as for a carb...im stumped....

Batass

Well if your going with that kit, then top notch isnt a concern, so I would say a carb from csu or aed or any top of the line expensive shop is out. Most of them are 800-1000 dollars. There are two mighty demons that are built for blow through, one for 10psi and under, and one for more than that. I got my carb for 450 bucks. Its got all the adjustments you need. I couldnt tell you how many psi you will have with those turbos.

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

I'm going to keep this simple, hopefully you'll have the sense to consider the info.

Everything in that kit is some china crap knockoff, hell probably made in malaysia not even china.

Just the real versions of the BOV's included run about $240 each, thats HALF of the price of this mircacle kit just in the blowoff's.

Two actual turbos that arent going to blow chunks right into that intercooler, or lock up within a year. $1000-1600 for something similar.
Those turbos have no name info on the compressor housings, hmm wonder why ?

The intercooler, are you kidding me, something decent enough to flow the kind of air twin T3/T4's would put out is going to run you in the 500 range at the low end of the spectrum. Again a $1000 kit, you are expecting a LOT out of it.

Let alone all of the other garbage included, hey i can only give you a little bit of sensible info, theres just way too many spots for those knockoff garbage parts to fail and cause vehicle and or personal damage.

Batass

I have to agree with this. You would be better to go to the junkyard and pick known good OEM turbos. Everything else can be had elsewhere for a good price.

WheelsUp84z

iTrader: (2)

damn..i paid $230 for my o-ringed EV hat AND 1" o-ring spacer.... There is a little controversy wheather they are the best or not, but they have shown increases over the ATI hats. The CSU one is up there too.

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Some people have had those turbos last a long time. Some have had them fail quickly. It is hit or miss and you may get lucky. The aftercooler is way to small, but makes a good filter if you lose a comp. wheel.

You could piece together a kit for less money using used OEM turbos. It takes a lot of shopping around. That kit isn't great, but may work for you application.

topradman

I custom build inner coolers and I can tell you that inner cooler in the picture isn't even configured close to correct for what you are doing. There are not nearly enough tubes and they are way, way, way too long for no more tubes than are there. I have charts and formulas to configure CAC's and I guarantee you, that cac is configured wrong for any v8 twin turbo and would probably only support a small v6 with a single turbo unless my eyes decieve me. I agree with Z28*****, a proper size CAC will run you about 500-650 $'s.

383backinblack

you mean "intercooler" right?

Batass

It may have been close to that, but with the shipping to me being stationed in germany......I see your an osprey mechanic, that thing is getting a little more respect? I used to be an F-16 mechanic. I miss it.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

ok so lets say i use the headers and some oem turbos from a yard, i can plum the system myself with tubes no problem with that, i just need a good intercooler which is going to cost a lot of money which i dont have...and everything is going to add up to a lot of money and ...so if someone can build me a system using oem turbos and good parts thats in the price range of this kit or around it ill go with that...its just my time is very restricted...thats my problem jus no time to shop around and go to yards and i drive the car ten times a year...if that...so i donno...i wanna go with good oem turbos ...but this is basically all i need in the kit....if anyone wants to help me peice a kit together using these headers...ill do that...bring on the part numbers...

Batass

For turbos I think but im not sure, that the most easy to find would be the KKK t3. Turbo VW, Audi. Maybe if you find two from DSM cars, talon, eclipse, laser. They use a Garret I think.

The most important parts are the turbos and intercooler. Find them, price them, and see how much you will have left. You can kinda skimp on the rest.

centtrans2

were did u find this it on ebay

Batass

sheesh

junkcltr

iTrader: (1)

Try and find some pictures with that kit installed in a thirdgen. The headers look they may or may not fit near the body. The alternator and AC may need some work.

To try and use OEM turbos will be tough because the units in that kit are T3 turbines with T4 compressors. From an airflow point of view they would work great. From what I have heard the compressors are T4 46 trims and would flow up to the 800 BHP range. The T3 .63 A/R turbines would make it spool well. No OEM vehicle came with a T3/T4 unit like that.

It will take a long time to find two turbos like them for cheap. Two T3 50 trim units will flow for up to 500 BHP roughly. They came on the SAABs / Volvos / Chryslers / others. Most have oil and water cooling. The water cooling means more lines to run and you don't need it for your application.

Overall, if you aren't worried about taking a chance with the turbos then the kit would be worth it for your situation. Maybe get an Ebay 31x12x3 ($110) or 31x12x4 ($160) after cooler to replace the one in the kit. Yeah, they aren't the greatest aftercooler due to cooling row and fin count. In my opinion they are worth the price. You will get decent IAT cooling and not much pressure drop. Not high end racing IAT cooling but plenty for a street setup.

To piece together a kit will take a long time to find good deals. If you end up with one bad deal because the item was mis-represented then you will lose the money on that item and the budget will be shot.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

yeah ok so the decision is made, im going with the kit....and getting a better intercooler cuz i didnt like the size of the one in the kit at first look at all...

the headers are going to fit, i have no ac and i can relocate the alt around to make plenty room for it...the engine bay is gutted clean no ac no heater box no overflow cans no nothing just and engine and brake system ...so room is not a preoblem i hope...now i would like to get a nice twin turbo setup intercooler from a stock car like an audi...are they big enough....or the ebay ones should do the trick for what im tryin to do....anyone has any links to nice tt setup intercoolers then post then up for me..