Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
#651
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Headers are dark colored, and seems like some flakes of material on it that may be either left over wrap that melted to glass or actual metal. I cant tell for sure. Its dark but doesnt look much different than exhaust parts anywhere else on the car. It may be degrading abit due to the intense heat...but I have had no cracks in that short time I ran it. So far so good. Tubing still looks pretty thick in some areas like it was before, so not sure that short amount of run time has hurt anything or not.
Alot of guys on turboforums say they have had no issues for 10's of thousands of miles wiht wrapped mild steel. Hard to say what to expect, but alot of guys say the tune plays an important role. If you have too much exhaust burning in the pipes, they will wear out faster.
Alot of guys on turboforums say they have had no issues for 10's of thousands of miles wiht wrapped mild steel. Hard to say what to expect, but alot of guys say the tune plays an important role. If you have too much exhaust burning in the pipes, they will wear out faster.
#652
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
I ended up wrapping my S-10 headers back in the day and it fatigued the metal over a year of daily driving.... I welded them a hundred times.. the wrap does such a good job of holding in heat it cooks the metal.
Unless it's cast iron I'd High Temp Coat them and be done. Mild just doesn't like it over time.
~Scott
Unless it's cast iron I'd High Temp Coat them and be done. Mild just doesn't like it over time.
~Scott
#654
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Thought about coating but under these heat conditions, i'm not sure how well that would work. The reason I wrapped them before was to keep heat off the brake booster and spark plug wires.... the turbo and turbine sat right on top of the booster before and I was worried. I never had a problem tho, so all the shielding I put around the sensitive areas must have helped.
Now I may not wrap these... I will have to see how the heat goes. If it helps spool I may wrap it all again. Or maybe just around the collector. I definately dont want to fatigue this setup..i want this to last a few years Down the road if I get time I will make it out of thick stainless weld els.
IF i get my pushods by end of tomorrow I will definately start doing the top end assembly. Headers will be welded up tomorrow hopefully and I can maybe get the new motor started by the weekend before my break is over. Lots left to do unfortunately so no rush
Now I may not wrap these... I will have to see how the heat goes. If it helps spool I may wrap it all again. Or maybe just around the collector. I definately dont want to fatigue this setup..i want this to last a few years Down the road if I get time I will make it out of thick stainless weld els.
IF i get my pushods by end of tomorrow I will definately start doing the top end assembly. Headers will be welded up tomorrow hopefully and I can maybe get the new motor started by the weekend before my break is over. Lots left to do unfortunately so no rush
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
or build a heat sheild around the headers and wrap that? sorta like a oem exhaust mani/header
#656
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Got one side just about done. Tacked up, ready to weld and then I gotta do the downpipe and wastegate stuff.
Guideplates on the heads are all adjusted and rocker studs torqued in. Ready for pushrods and I can start buttoning up the top end of the motor. Water pump is on, just waiting to do the rest of the exhaust before I put everything back on.
#660
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Yeah, i'd love to have it down here but for now, I just dont have the space for it and its definately not a highway car which Houston seeems to be 90% highway driving. Oh well, the rebuild is far from done so if I expect to get this running before 2012 ends, then I may need to move the car south
Its only pushrods away from being able to run all motor. If I had a pair of shorty headers for it I could drive it around as is which I had planned on doing but now that may wait.
Its only pushrods away from being able to run all motor. If I had a pair of shorty headers for it I could drive it around as is which I had planned on doing but now that may wait.
#664
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
subscribed! awesome thread, read the whole thing straight through.... got work tomorrow... Orr you are one crazy guy
#665
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Looking great man. Looking great. On a side note. Thermal coatings will hold up just fine. Ive done alot of headers and turbo housing in black and silver. (black is a 2 stage. Silver 1st and a black color top coat)
Can't wait to see this combo done.
Can't wait to see this combo done.
#668
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Yep, thought about doing a quad turbo setup just to be different. Wouldnt be too hard to do, the turbos would be small enough I can fit them in the engine bay without much fuss. Driver side would be the tougher one to do, but I already have an idea how to do it.
I once saw a 57 or so chevy with a V8 with 8 turbos in the engine bay. Show car but still made like 700whp or something.
I once saw a 57 or so chevy with a V8 with 8 turbos in the engine bay. Show car but still made like 700whp or something.
#669
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Didnt BBSD do a quad turbo set up on his gta?
I have a pic here of a v8 with 8turbos in a ols rat rod stye tbucket.
I have a pic here of a v8 with 8turbos in a ols rat rod stye tbucket.
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Damn! I can honestly say I've never seen that before.
#674
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Haven't been following you for a while, apparently I've been spending too much time in the garage! You've been busy! I like the new setup. Question for ya- have you hear much about flex couplings failing pre-turbo? I did some research and couldn't find much. I am using the OBX racing ebay 2.5" flex joints 4 inches long. I hope they will hold up, being they have stainless mesh on the inside as well has me a little worried....but who knows.
#675
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
You know, i've read that they can fail pre turbo but have only seen one actually fail.
http://forums.corral.net/forums/turb...ling-look.html
Havent searched for it often but then again I should have seen it while looking for advice on pre turbo flex pipes to begin with.
The ones I have from Treadstone are stainless steel with inner bellow lining that is suppose to be good for high heat and pressure in a pre turbo application. Hope to see how they last.
http://forums.corral.net/forums/turb...ling-look.html
Havent searched for it often but then again I should have seen it while looking for advice on pre turbo flex pipes to begin with.
The ones I have from Treadstone are stainless steel with inner bellow lining that is suppose to be good for high heat and pressure in a pre turbo application. Hope to see how they last.
#676
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
as with any flex . Its all about the quality in the piece.
Ya thats the picture I was looking for of the quad turbos.
Ya thats the picture I was looking for of the quad turbos.
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Thanks for that link, that's pretty crazy. I guess I'll be checking mine every so often. The quad turbo is pretty sweet! Super fast spooling, not to mention the cool factor.
#678
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Alright alot has been going on since last update.
I basically finished mocking up the hotside to the turbo but have to do downpipes and wastegates yet. Shouldnt take too long but the main headers are welded up and ready to go.
Motor I had some issues with. I decided to go with Morel lifters instead of the LS7's just for safety really. Big valve, with big boost hopefully and aggressive cam just puts a beating on lifters. Dont want to have the ls7's start collapsing on me and lose hp. So i'll put them in my 99 TA when I do heads/cam.
Heads I have now originally come with a 68cc chamber. My AFR's were 65, so I wanted to shave these down to 64 to keep 9 to 1. Well that leaves head port abit thin on the base.
So talked to Chad Speier who did the heads and he made up some aluminum plates to build up area. Sucks i had to unbolt the heads from the car, as they were installed months ago but i had to make sure I had a good seal.
So drilled the heads, epoxied the base and screwed them in. Made sure they were well aligned to the head face.
So I bolted the heads down again....later to find out the Morel lifters with the extra tall body with the link bars cannot be installed with the heads on the car! So off goes the heads again, installed the lifters and retorqued the heads again. Hopefully for the last time! Interesting things I've learned from doing this build...or rebuild
So intake is on, snugged down, doing final retorque tomorrow morning to let the RightStuff set up abit. Hope to have it all assembled and ready to fire open headers tomorrow just to see how the car sounds with the heads/cam. Also to set up the valvetrain, check for leaks, etc before getting the turbos on and dealing with all that.
Making progress...shouldnt be too much longer before I can get everything together and start driving it again
I basically finished mocking up the hotside to the turbo but have to do downpipes and wastegates yet. Shouldnt take too long but the main headers are welded up and ready to go.
Motor I had some issues with. I decided to go with Morel lifters instead of the LS7's just for safety really. Big valve, with big boost hopefully and aggressive cam just puts a beating on lifters. Dont want to have the ls7's start collapsing on me and lose hp. So i'll put them in my 99 TA when I do heads/cam.
Heads I have now originally come with a 68cc chamber. My AFR's were 65, so I wanted to shave these down to 64 to keep 9 to 1. Well that leaves head port abit thin on the base.
So talked to Chad Speier who did the heads and he made up some aluminum plates to build up area. Sucks i had to unbolt the heads from the car, as they were installed months ago but i had to make sure I had a good seal.
So drilled the heads, epoxied the base and screwed them in. Made sure they were well aligned to the head face.
So I bolted the heads down again....later to find out the Morel lifters with the extra tall body with the link bars cannot be installed with the heads on the car! So off goes the heads again, installed the lifters and retorqued the heads again. Hopefully for the last time! Interesting things I've learned from doing this build...or rebuild
So intake is on, snugged down, doing final retorque tomorrow morning to let the RightStuff set up abit. Hope to have it all assembled and ready to fire open headers tomorrow just to see how the car sounds with the heads/cam. Also to set up the valvetrain, check for leaks, etc before getting the turbos on and dealing with all that.
Making progress...shouldnt be too much longer before I can get everything together and start driving it again
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Thats quite the feat thus far, good work and looking forward to see the end result. You think it'll get finished for this summer?
#683
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Thats quite the feat thus far, good work and looking forward to see the end result. You think it'll get finished for this summer?
Then I'll put the turbos in and start tuning that.
I got a 12 bolt rear coming...bought one off a friend but it has a spool and 3.73 gears. I want to change out to a posi of some sort and 3.08's. So i'll probably run the 10 bolt for now until I can get this 12 bolt rebuilt.
Some minor odds and ends that I want to do to the car but not imperative at this time... just need to get it running again and then I'll do the minor things.
That will save some time and money.
#684
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#685
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Do you know if they are different from the Comp short travel lifters? 15853-16.
I don't recall which block you're using. Is it a tall lifter boss type?
I'm about to drop the coin on a new set of lifters and there's no way I'm interested in pulling the heads.
Last edited by skinny z; 04-30-2012 at 03:49 PM.
#686
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Well they are the 4602's which are suppose to be for sbc and high performance lifters..its the only part number i see available thats not limited travel lifter.
My block is a SHP, finished at 9.020" deck...its zero decked with the JE pistons coming in at a taller compression height, and with .041" gasket. I had to unbolt the heads and lift them up slightly to get the lifters in. I've asked Chris Straub who is a dealer and he was surprised to hear that. I've browsed around and saw LT1 guys saying they needed to pull heads too, so it MAY be a oem roller block that has trouble. Are the lifter areas where the dog bones sit taller than non roller blocks? I'm not sure. My block is basically a beefed up version of the oem hyd roller dog bone setup blocks.
They are nice lifters but extremely pricey... I dont think Comp lifters are the same. I think howards and lunati used to sell Morel lifters as their own but not sure anymore.
My block is a SHP, finished at 9.020" deck...its zero decked with the JE pistons coming in at a taller compression height, and with .041" gasket. I had to unbolt the heads and lift them up slightly to get the lifters in. I've asked Chris Straub who is a dealer and he was surprised to hear that. I've browsed around and saw LT1 guys saying they needed to pull heads too, so it MAY be a oem roller block that has trouble. Are the lifter areas where the dog bones sit taller than non roller blocks? I'm not sure. My block is basically a beefed up version of the oem hyd roller dog bone setup blocks.
They are nice lifters but extremely pricey... I dont think Comp lifters are the same. I think howards and lunati used to sell Morel lifters as their own but not sure anymore.
#687
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Seems to me the lifter bosses in an OEM configured block are taller than a conventional Gen 1. That could be the issue.
And yes the Morels are pricey! I've checked out some of Morels distributors and they all sell their own brands (Lunati, Howards) so I suspect they're Morels with different branding. I'd like to know for sure though.
My deadline to place an order is tomorrow due to scheduling restraints on the delivery dates and I've yet to spec a new cam which will have to be custom made, shipped and delivered by the 12th. Lifters ordered at the same time.
Thanks for the info.
And yes the Morels are pricey! I've checked out some of Morels distributors and they all sell their own brands (Lunati, Howards) so I suspect they're Morels with different branding. I'd like to know for sure though.
My deadline to place an order is tomorrow due to scheduling restraints on the delivery dates and I've yet to spec a new cam which will have to be custom made, shipped and delivered by the 12th. Lifters ordered at the same time.
Thanks for the info.
#688
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
Heads I have now originally come with a 68cc chamber. My AFR's were 65, so I wanted to shave these down to 64 to keep 9 to 1. Well that leaves head port abit thin on the base.
So talked to Chad Speier who did the heads and he made up some aluminum plates to build up area. Sucks i had to unbolt the heads from the car, as they were installed months ago but i had to make sure I had a good seal.
So drilled the heads, epoxied the base and screwed them in. Made sure they were well aligned to the head face...
So talked to Chad Speier who did the heads and he made up some aluminum plates to build up area. Sucks i had to unbolt the heads from the car, as they were installed months ago but i had to make sure I had a good seal.
So drilled the heads, epoxied the base and screwed them in. Made sure they were well aligned to the head face...
#689
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Its truely amazing how this stuff snowballs out of control. It started as a simple heads/cam swap. Suppose to reuse everything else in my build. Same turbo manifolds/piping/etc. Then I find the heads need special rockers, which then I notice the valvetrain sits up high due to higher spring install height so I needed taller covers which wont allow my turbo manifolds to work without modifications.
At that point, I figured, hell might as well redo everything the way I really wanted it. Here I am, whole new build, lots of new parts.
At that point, I figured, hell might as well redo everything the way I really wanted it. Here I am, whole new build, lots of new parts.
#693
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Downpipes are done and installed, just need to do the wastegate plumbing. Holding off on that for the moment as I plan to start hooking up the rest of the exhaust first to see if I need to move the downpipes at all, or mod them further. I doubt it tho, I should have enough room under there. Right now I'm running thru an empty turbine housing with blockoff plate on the other side so I can run naturally aspirated to dial in the tune and rpm range to see where this setup is gonna pull. Hopefully the old tune is close enough for this setup to make this a quick easy process so I can put the turbos on.
I set base timing yesterday, car wouldnt start with EST disconnected but started right up fairly easily and smoothly to my surprise with full timing in. Luckily for me, the distributor was in at 11 deg base timing and what looked to be 29-30 deg overall which is what I think I have in the bin file for cold start. I didnt have to move a thing but will verify again after I let it heat up. It idled great at about 1000 rpm but only was showing 10-11 inch of vacuum compared to my old 15" so it may need a canister. Cant complain for a 246/252 .640" lift cam and 245cc heads. Its gonna be a beast
I had short video on my phone but I cant get it off the phone. Wont allow me to send it. Says its beyond the file size limit but its only 4.7mb? Oh well...will get update video with the good camera later.
I set base timing yesterday, car wouldnt start with EST disconnected but started right up fairly easily and smoothly to my surprise with full timing in. Luckily for me, the distributor was in at 11 deg base timing and what looked to be 29-30 deg overall which is what I think I have in the bin file for cold start. I didnt have to move a thing but will verify again after I let it heat up. It idled great at about 1000 rpm but only was showing 10-11 inch of vacuum compared to my old 15" so it may need a canister. Cant complain for a 246/252 .640" lift cam and 245cc heads. Its gonna be a beast
I had short video on my phone but I cant get it off the phone. Wont allow me to send it. Says its beyond the file size limit but its only 4.7mb? Oh well...will get update video with the good camera later.
#694
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Short teaser vid.... open pipe idle. Not finished but getting there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7el97r-Tlmg&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7el97r-Tlmg&feature=plcp
#697
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
I thought this car was done if u don't mine me asking what was changed
#698
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Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Sounds great! So i take it your changing the hood too?
I can't see in the pics but, did you insulate the break lines coming
off the m/c?
I bet your gladd to be back home and almost done with your
engine mods. Looking good bud. Keep us updated.
I can't see in the pics but, did you insulate the break lines coming
off the m/c?
I bet your gladd to be back home and almost done with your
engine mods. Looking good bud. Keep us updated.
#699
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
Was done 2 yrs ago and then I changed turbos. Was not happy with its performance so I changed heads cam and ported intake. With the new stuff I was forced to redesign headers and exhaust. So this was a second build
#700
Re: Twin Turbo 400 Buildup- '89 Iroc-Z
I wanted a 2-3" cowl but dont like harwoods 3" and would have to change things around to fit the intake under the small cowl.