Cadride

Looking for some help on the best place to put a methanol injector? With my setup, I want to inject post SC to keep methanol from misting the air cleaner. Unfortunately, I have limited space to make sure that the spray pattern is not going directly on to a sidewall. So far I have meth injection kit from AlkyControl and plan to run either 80/20 or 100 methanol. My primary goal for the kit is added safety, considering I am running two injectors at 3x the pressure they were intended to.
I posted a several pictures at photobucket

http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/ch...or%20Placement




Thinking the best place for the injector (10gph) would be in place of the IAC sensor and move the IAC sensor to the intake manifold. Not sure though how the spray pattern will be affected by boost pressure in this location. Right now, I am open to really any ideas; can machine in a port at about any location.
Other question is does anyone have experience of running a check valve in place of a solenoid when the injector sees vacuum. To keep installation simple I would like to use a check valve and after talking with Alkycontrol and DevilsOwn it should be do able. The most pressure you should see under vacuum is 15 psi and DevilsOwn has a 16 psi check valve. I have seen several guys say that their solenoid failed at the worst time.

Feel free to let me know any additional suggestions.

The torn up innercooler is my test piece to make the final cooler more robust.

My setup: 355, AFR 195 heads, bored out 454 TBI, 80# injectors, Whipple 2.3.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

For a roots/twin screw like that, the iat needs to be in the intake tub post intercooler if at all possible

Post sc meth injection is difficult for packaging reasons. A tube holding 1-2 nozzles pointed up at the bottom of the intercooler is the best solution there
Pre-sc injection is more common. Use a u-bend with nozzles just before the TB should be simple with no permanent mods to the manifold

Check valve or solenoid is your preference. I posted a diagram with DO part numbers and wiring diagram for twin pumps and meth off a Hobbs switch

Cadride

Pocket thanks for the reply.
The current location of the IAT is post SC and post Innercooler as shown below.

With my setup there would be only 1” from the nozzle to the innercooler if I pointed it up at the bottom of the innercooler. Wouldn’t think that would be enough room to get a good spray pattern? Just asking why do you say in that location? Also not sure that I can make the injector fit with out hitting intake or thermostat housing.



Intake is single plane



Like you say the pre-sc would be a great place I am just concerned about causing a fire hazard with spray back off the throttle blades into the air filter. Looking back at some of my logs from last year I was getting into boost as low as 30% throttle opening. On the bench I took a nozzle pointed at the throttle blades started the pump at low setting and blades open 30-40% and got quite a bit of spray reflecting back. I know the engine would be pulling the air in, but would hate to see possible fire if the all the stars aligned.

Maybe spraying up at the innercooler is the best location if I can find room to put them in; I am just a little concerned the nozzle will be to close to the innercooler for proper pattern at this point. Machining the intake is not a problem. Starting to wonder if a nozzle on either side of the IAC valve would be a good location to try and get the most even spray to the cylinders?? Instead of running one 10gph nozzles run two 5gph nozzles. For ease of installation I would much rather do pre-sc and guaranteed mixture of air gasoline, and methanol, I am just concerned with methanol reflecting off of the throttle blades.

I tried to find your wiring diagram, but was unsuccessful. The setup I bought from AlkyControls, reads boost from my 2 bar MAP and progressively increases flow. I have that all installed and working good just have to decide on best location for nozzles.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

I wouldnt worry about a fire hazard

1) Methanol isnt as flamable/explosive as gasoline. Minor fumes in the engine bay will not ignite
2) The only source of ignition would be a backfire though the TB and it would have to travel completely through the twin screw SC. Its more likely to blow off the intake than to revert though it

How about drilling sideways through the TB base

The intercooler and IAT placement/packaging makes meth tricky in the little tub. You dont want the spray to hit anything or it wont atomize completely and a good bit of the meth's cooling property will be lost. You also dont want the spray to get on the IAT or a false VERY cold temp will be logged

I think the rear of the intake just in front of the distributor would be better than the blower tub. Its below the IAT over an inch, so I doubt much if any meth will revert that far. Should be relatively centered in the inlet of the manifold so each runner gets roughly the same amount. Might not hurt to port on in the rear and one in the front

Very ticky package you've got there

Cadride

I have considered putting it in the TB which I will take another look at tonight. The walls are pretty thin; its a 454 TB bored an additional 4mm per bore to 54mm. Then to make the walls even thinner I smoothed and polished the transition into the air horn.

You bring up some very good points and many things I was afraid of. I am going to mix up some 80/20 methanol and see how well it ignites when coming out of hand spray bottle; to possibly satisfy my worries. I will try to figure out a way to go pre-SC; no question about getting even mixture of fuel, meth, air to each cylinder then; like your saying easier installation as well.

I will take some pics this weekend with the SC off to better illiterate my setup. It is pretty packed in there to get injector in front of intake and back of intake, but could be possible. What would you think about putting two nozzles on either side of the IAC, then moving the IAC to the rear of the intake? This would hopefully allow the IAC to only see atomized methanol just as it currently sees gasoline. The setup works good, but everything but ideal and way to much time it to making it work that is for sure.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Re-purposing the IAC sounds like robbing Peter to pay Paul. Solution creates another problem

Ever considered switching to port injection? Better fueling, more air in the SC and can use a monoblade TB (i.e. LS1) mounted anywhere in any direction, like on a 90* neck which would be ideal for meth nozzles. With your modular system, it would only need an EFI manifold and custom neck. I assume the intercooler and windshield cowl box are your manufacture, so a custom neck should be no trouble

Cadride

I contemplated long and hard about doing an port setup, but I was already pretty far down the path with the TB setup when I was considering sending my manifold out to be setup with an injector ports or looking at different manifolds. In the end, I decided that I have a 4600 lbs turd and more power will only make the tires spin more. It will never be “fast” with this much weight and long of wheelbase, without more cash than I have. The other dilemma that I ran into is I have to keep the EGR for emissions testing in CO. Which I know different intakes can take care of that problem as well. I decided to finish my build with my biggest constraint being the TBI setup. I have a feeling that an efi setup would easily add 100 hp when setup and tuned. It is still a ton of fun to drive being able to turn over both rear 285 tires at a 40 mph cruse. Getting better tires this summer to hopefully get a better hook.


After taking, a good look at the setup this weekend and considering what we have talked about there is no real good way to spray post SC; without putting in several nozzles. Hopefully tonight I will have some time to post up pics.

I ordered some SS tubing yesterday to fit nozzle pre TB and once I get the nozzle in position I will post up some pics. Making machining changes are a little more difficult than they used to be, as I know longer work at a facility with a complete tool room at my disposal.

Got some heat and reminded myself how much fun methanol is light on fire from my kart racing days. To help elevate some of my concerns with methanol mist I will make it so that injection does not start tell 2-3 psi.

Thanks for your help and input.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Most Hobbs switches are set to 2psi by default, so that's no issue. Positive displacement blowers like that are usually instantly into boost so an exact pre-set value isn't critical. I have a diagram in my unsupervised thread for wiring in the meth pump, solenoid, Hobbs and twin fuel pumps. Relay pin assignments are wrong in the pic, but if you understand how a relay works, it shouldn't be any trouble. May help

DIGGLER

iTrader: (1)

lots of nifty custom stuff to still be using 2 injectors! it looks like youve done an awesome job with it so far. and i know youve heard this before, but i would ditch the 2 injectors and go with a more conventional 8.

the alky kit i messed with had a directional nozzle... is yours? i think i would try to put the nozzle/s into the throttle body somehow, or in a spacer ring for the air cleaner. while the kit is on, i dont see how it could possibly go backwards towards the air cleaner?

Cadride

Sorry Guys for falling off the face of the earth. I am currently taking 12 credit hours at the university and full time work and at the end of the semester my class projects got the best of me and trying to get ready to move a couple of states. I have not had a chance to touch the truck. I get done with finals Thursday so hoping to get it all back together next weekend.

Pocket I could not find the diagram on the unsupervised thread all the photo pics links are not working. My setup is controllable to when it kits on and it is progressive. Pretty sure I got the nozzle location all figured out, going to go behind the injectors so that the over spray that could possibly try to go back into the air cleaner will be blocked.

Diggler thanks, Yes I should have done mpi, but to far down this path now. My next project (car) will diffidently be MPI, to many limitations with my setup using TBI. My methanol setup is only one nozzle from Alky Control.