james_85Z28

Happened at 60 MPH while getting ont he freeway.....

mean57

simple u-joint failure. probably made a good amount of noise at 60 huh?
probably gonna need to get that rebalanced after new u-joint installed.

JulieGTA

Is this why the techies at Irwindale keep nagging about something they call a "driveshaft loop?"

james_85Z28

Sorta. While u-joints can fail, usually people break the driveshaft when launching. The drivehsaft usually breaks about 6 inches away from where the driveshaft yoke and tube are welded. This driveshaft did not break as you can see. The driveshaft loop required at your speeds, Julie, should be located near the front u-joint and is to keep the car from pole-vaulting in case the front u-joint or driveshaft (near the front) breaks.

87IROCZ350TPI

One of the 38% who still likes Bush, huh? How long have you had those u-joints before the failure? Looks like you were throwing some gear oil at one point as well, I think I may see a little on your pipe.

JulieGTA

Oh I see.

Is this a trick question? Like, whose car is that anyway?

87IROCZ350TPI

you're profile is like gnikaerf me out

DRR

I find it hard to believe that happened on the freeway at 60mph and it is in that good of shape- Really do not believe it would have stayed in the tailshaft. I've lost driveshafts a few times in life and they never come out looking that clean at speed- hence why I opted for a carbonfiber shaft because the last one scared the crap out of me.

LAFireboyd

iTrader: (3)

That happened to my '83 Z28 for no apparent reason... just left home, neighborhood street, 25 mph, stopping at a stop sign, and... CLANGCLANGCLANGCLANG! I'm like... "WTH?!"

The u-joint cap screws fell out, and the cap fell off. Luckily, being at a stop, it was all right there underneath the car. I put it back fingertight, and it got me back home. The car was completely stock and had never been messed with either. So **it does happen.

Both my '82 and '83 Z28s had so many bugs to workout, that GM should've paid me for being a test driver!

james_85Z28

Well I it was probably closer to 65 MPH as I just got on the freeway. I'm not some bonehead so as soon as I heard something wrong I put in the clutch and coasted to the shoulder. No power went through the driveshaft after the noise and it was probably dragged a couple hundred feet at most. While I waiting for the tow trick another member of this board met me on the freeway. So there is another witness of where it happened and can verify it in relation to the freeway onramp.

If you ever tried to remove a thirdgen driveshaft you would know how the exhaust somewhat prevents the driveshaft from falling out without some effort. That is with 3" exhaust. This car has 3.5" exhaust. Nice try Dean.

87IROCZ350TPI

James, obviously the bolts broke, so I voted for the "Massive horsepower" option on the poll. Just curious how much you have.

Grey Goose

I was in the middle of spanking a G35 “Competition Model” on the 605 when I got the call. Jimmy is telling the absolute truth. The first thing I did when I met up with him was look under the car and what you see in the image is exactly what I saw. We’re just trying to figure out what happened and why…

DRR

Look James, I am not trying to be an ***. What I stated is I am puzzled as to how lucky you where. You must not have been on the throttle very hard is my speculation and with aluminum I don't see any wear around the yoke section of the driveshaft where it banged around on the ground. I have lost two shafts under hard power, One at about 85 on the freeway (tore up and bent many things under there and finally shot out and across the freeway with out any time to react), the other was a halfshaft at about 65mph shifting 1st to 2nd on an autox course and caused about $6000 damage under the car- lucky I was sponsored.

M driveshaft is 4" round and will fall right out past the exhaust Exhaust is tucked nicely too and my car is lower than most. My I-pipe is a Stainlessworks baffled muffler 3.5" round and 28.5" long. I just know that if I lost a u-joint at 60 my driveshaft would come right out of the tailshaft and be lying on the freeway- its all I am stating.

All I see is a couple of swirl polished scrape marks on the side of the aluminum shaft where it rubbed against the exhaust- but it looks like it was a slow critical speed like in first gear. Just my first impression of disecting the picture above. My hats off to you then for the strong driveshaft and exhaust pipe- you are lucky not to have more damage.

Nice try back at you James.

injdinjn

I just broke the tie between choice 1 and 2.

Check the parts that are left for indications of previous cracking before they broke.
You could always check with my Engineer, he spent extra time in his stress anlyasis class.

james_85Z28

I don't think I was on the gas at the time of failure. I had just merged onto the 405 and noticed complete re-tread that was between the 2 right lanes. My first thought was that I picked up some secondary debris from the failed re-tread that I did not see. After hearing the noise I looked back and saw some parts skimming accross the freeway Kenneth Marks-style. I happened very fast but as soon as I heard the noice Iput in the clutch and went into the emergency lane. I knew it wasn't good from the noise I heard in the driveshaft tunnel as I was slowing down. I assumed the driveshaft was broke from the tunnel noises and called AAA. While waiting for the tow truck it occured to me that I didn't even check and see if the car could move, as if maybe it wasn't the driveshaft and I was wrong. So I started up the car and let out the clutch and more banging ensued so I quickly sopped and waited for the tow. I didn't get out of the car or check anything until the tow truck showed up and Mike was right behind him. Only then did I get out of the car.

Because the driveshaft tube wasn't twisted and the U-joint is still in one piece i can only infer that the driveshaft bolts were either not tight enough or that the 9" rear requires a different U-joint than the stock 10-bolt rear and the wrong part caused it to fail.
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After W and his Hurricane machine wreaked havoc on the underprivileged and poor in 2005, I can only assume he is testing his u-joint bolt extractor and i was one of the first to be tested this year.......

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

None of the above. It was actually Vincent behind the wheel.

Grey Goose

Vincent could only wish he was putting down this much power…

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

What car is this you're driving??? I'm probably blind and didnt see you mention it.

james_85Z28

I didn't mention it. It is another Black Opps project. It will be unvailed once it is ready, tested, and the cage is installed so I can race Vincent and give him multiple attempts to beat me without me or Mike getting ejected after the first pass.



maybe this pic helps....

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Hmmmm, another DEEP BLACK project. This is going to be good.

DRR

Its very possible the 9" rear has a 1330 yoke and you put a 1310 u-joint into it. Its ever so slight but will cause misalginment and failure.

you will need to measure the caps and the yoke.

1310= 1 1/16"
1330= 1 1/8"
1350= 1 3/16"

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Hmmmm, Ford nine inch rear, 3.5" Mufflex system. I wonder who's car that could be? Bwahahahahahaha. Deep Black project alright.

87IROCZ350TPI

I pretty sure nobody accused him of having a hurricane machine. The accusations involved having advanced knowledge of the coming disaster, being informed of the expected outcome by top advisers, and then doing practically nothing to prepare for it. The fact that this particular disaster affected primarily low income minorities also didn't make him look like the pinnicle of goodness, but you just go ahead and keep blindly defending him.
By the way, want to actually answer any relevant questions about your car that I've been asking, or should we just turn this into a political mud-slinging forum?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

The dimocRATS in Louisiana had more to do with the failure of the initial relief effort and supplies more than anyone. Namely Blanco and Nagin. As the levies were overflowing Blanco was telling Bush everything was fine. I'll leave it at that as the facts do not support your case.

Guest

As DDR said, there are different sized yokes for the 9", you really need to measure what you have and run the appropriate joint. There's a whole bunch of combination joints out there to adapt different size joints.

87IROCZ350TPI

89gta, I completely disagree with your attempt to steer the blame away from the Bush administration, but I will end it here. I admit fault for making my original smartass comment earlier in the thread, and I should not have responded to James' clever #4 option in his poll(that wasn't meant to be rude, James). I apologize for getting heated earlier and although it certainly may not sound like it, I truly do respect your right to your opinion. I won't challenge it again.

cali92RS

Its OK to be rude to James in regards to politics... He is wrong 99% of the time in that arena

87IROCZ350TPI

Thanks cali.

cali92RS

Wait a second...you're from New Jersey
I retract my previous comment...

injdinjn

Thats why New Yorkers are so cranky. The light at the end of their tunnel is New Jersey.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Different from you is not necessarily wrong.

cali92RS

Well being that I'm correct most of the time, the odds are in my favor

james_85Z28

The only question you asked that I didn't answer is how much power the engine is putting out. And I believe I answered all relavant questions previous to your post.

You haven't added anything to this post but stir up controversy where a little joke was planted in the pole for those of use who know eahother personally on this Regional board. I would suggest that you post elsewhere.

87IROCZ350TPI

You're right, man. I'm sorry. Sorry everyone.

JulieGTA

It was

Well, it's got camaro type wheels... Is that a 3'' exhaust?

And it's parked at James house.

cali92RS

I may be wrong...
but it appears to be 3.5" exhaust.

james_85Z28

Dean,

You were right the exhaust was not keeping the driveshaft in. I guess because I had just got on the freeway and took immediate action when I heald somethng wrong, I guess that is what saved the driveshaft from falling completely out.

But as you can see from the pic I posted there is one cap completely secured and the other cap has loose bolts. There were other loose fasteners on the PHR with the nut just about to fall off as well as the length adjusting nut not tightened as well.

BretD 88GTA

C'mon James, you're an engineer. You know that whole "pole vaulting" thing is an urban legend.

There's no way a hollow driveshaft is going to lift a 3400+ lb. car. Especially an aluminum driveshaft.

I once had my '84 El Camino get loose from the driveway while the d-shaft was unbolted from the rear axle. It rolled across the street, back wheels jumped the curb and the driveshaft folded like a toothpick. Did absolutely no damage to the car or trans. We're talking like 5mph or so tops.

The show Myth Busters even tried this one. Sent a car speeding down a vacant runway, rigged the d-shaft to fail at the trans AND even strategically placed a pothole for the d-shaft to dig into.

It took a few attempts, but they were able to get everything to excute as planned. The driveshaft pretty much folded up and punched into the trunk area of the car. No pogo-stick, poll vault or any other kind of aerobatics or gymnastics.

The driveshaft loop required in racing prevents damage to the car and more importantly, the track surface.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

WRONG.....I lived to tell about it.
I was at Beeline Dragway in 1969 when my driveshaft dropped in my '57 and tore up the brake lines under the car. I went off the track at approx. 90 mph and survived. '57 Chevys only had a single master cylinder.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

It looks like this car is white or use to be white and it has Camaro wheels. Boy I tell ya. The things that people will go through just to beat a brutha. Damn I'm good! I'm good at making people think of me when they are spending money to get around me.

Good luck people! You're gonna need it

cali92RS

Huh??
Which is the picture that shows any paint?

BretD 88GTA

So how am I wrong?

You didn't have a loop and the d-shaft tore up the underside of the car. Just what I said happens without a loop — car gets damaged, track potentially gets damaged, you potentially get damaged.

You didn't do a somesault and flip the car end over end. Re-read everything I origianlly wrote. I was mainly addressing the myth that the car will do end over end flips if the shaft lets go and that's why a d-shaft loop is required.

DRR

Do you have a digital caliper (measuring tool)? If so then measure your yoke and u-joint caps. I would bet that the yoke is 1330 (1.125") and the u-joint is 1310 (1.063"). Its a common problem when swapping a Ford 9" into a Chev.

The bolts will loosen due to misalingnment and vibration/ or they will snap off the u-joint. If you need help, I can research the proper U-joint you'll need from Summit racing or just go to a local driveline shop and they can help-they should have one on the shelf because its a common swap.

I am going to have another ACPT CF driveshaft made very soon for my Truck. It has a Currie 9" in it with a 1330 rear yoke. I am going to swap it for a 1350 Strange billet steel yoke and have the driveshaft made with a 1350 also so I can run an even larger u-joint AND be able to run some Moroso gridle caps. I wipe out u-joints quite often in this truck due to the weight I carry, torque, and high speed driving I do in it. I can't keep u-joints into it the steel shaft I have in it. The truck came originally with an aluminum shaft WITH CF wrapping from the factory. Its a very long one piece shaft and the steel one is very heavy causing vibration. (note to Bret: I catapulted about 2 feet off the ground and pitched sideways on the freeway years ago in this truck when I cut the factory shaft in half from rubbing with too heavy of loads- Like Don, I too am lucky to be here. Felt like I was going to endo @ 85mph)

james_85Z28

Well the name of the project is "Black Oppression"
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well that is the standard rational. At speed anythiing is just about possible. I'm sure they setup the test on MB for the conditions they would expect the situation to happen. But sometimes you are right for the wrong reason. Or wrong for the right reason. The loop probably does a better job of keeping the driveshaft from whipping around and penatrating the floor and making a mess of legs, arms, hands, etc. besides the damage to brakes lines and such.

james_85Z28

I put a stock driveshaft in the car so I could move it around. I was told last night the car required a special length driveshaft so i gotta check to make sure everything is OK. The stock thirdgen u-joint looked a hair too wide but definately it was not to narrow. As soon as I am done with the truck in the next couple weeks I will look at the camarobird again. I brought up the u-joint size because I was just brainstorming about what could have caused the problem and what I need to check and verify.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"camarobird"

james_85Z28

gotta keep you guessing

BretD 88GTA

Yeah, the rear of the car can lift or jump, but it's highly unlikely it will go end-over-end. 2 feet is far from "catapulting" or pole-vaulting. It is still serious though. Thus the need for the d-shaft loop.

I guess maybe I'm not choosing my words carefully enough. And heaven knows how people get trashed on these boards if you don't say things just right.

DRR

You're tellin' me

Actually, its not the end over end that p[eople need to fear ( I agree that is close to impossible to happen), its the rear lifting -PITCHING to a side and then coming back down that will flip the car at speed. Thats what darn near happened to me, but fortunately this truck's suspension is built and is very stiff sway resistence with massive springs, bars and Koni's, plus its lowered. I think if it were stock I definately would have rolled.

James, Just to clarify and make sure we are on the same page, I am taking about the "diameter" of the caps, not the width of the u-joint legs or with of the cap


And to quote Scarface ," I don't need no stinkin' driveshaft loop." I have the brooming effect if it were to ever happen again. My life at speed is well worth the $800 insurance policy of a CF driveshaft. It'll be nice to finally get one onto my truck so I feel safe and can drive above 80mph again. I get a bad vibration at 84mph.

Grey Goose

I love it…misdirection is an essential element of distraction. James there is no use trying to fool Dean. He knows damn well that the u-joint didn’t pop on the freeway. It seemed like a good story at the time but we both forgot to factor Dean into the equation. I’m afraid the gig is up player. I still bust up laughing thinking about how Sarkis ducked and covered his head when the driveshaft let loose…too funny.