ringo234

They've never checked my timing.

radicule

Yes they do. What is kind of strange is test result shows 8 BTDC. The Tech said it was fluctuating between 6 & 8 BTDC?? So I guess it is who has the more accurate timing light? Do not know of any other solutions.

radicule

The test tech said it was fluctuating between 6 & 8 BTDC. The final test results show 8 BTDC when the car was set @ 6. They did not fail the car for timing. So try 4 BTDC and drop another $25.

injdinjn

Contacting a govt employee or your elected is a waste of time because none of them care what individuals think.

My suggestion, and I have done this, is to contact SEMA. As they legislate older cars out of CA the fewer customers they will have for aftermarket parts. Needs a lot of letter though.

injdinjn

I am shocked, I received a real service and response from Mimi Walters office.

The guy banged on the fact I was told the wrong date, but that's basically immaterial as the numbers are 30% lower than they were in 2010

Anyone ever hear of the pass numbers going up?

ringo234

""BAR is prohibited by law from lowering the pass fail cut points lower than vehicles were originally required to meet.""

Sounds to me like there is a limit to how much they raise/lower the standard.

''BAR uses analysis of the emissions of all vehicles in California in adjusting the pass fail cut points and allows for increases in emissions due to age, mileage, component wear etc. “

it also sounds like the have to loosen the as the cars get older.

Guest

This was my last pass result 4,000 miles ago

Hc max is 108 I measured a 15 at 15mph
Hc Max 83 I measured 28 at 25 mph

The Co Levels are 0.71 I measured 0.01 at 15 mph
Co max 0.58 I measured 0.36

No Passed

Now after using Hi octane of course for tuning racing. 4,000 miles later I smog

Hc 108 I measured a 82 at 15 mph
Hc Max 83 I measured a 215!

Now the Co% side 0.071 max I measured a 2.19
Co at 25 mph 0.58 I measured a 9.90

Ok now what else was wrong after using Hi octane??? Any one.. The heated o2 sensor needs replaced with your good new spare. So I get some more tuning and change the 02sensor..

I go back to smog

Hc max 108 I measured a 195 at 15 mph
Hc max 83 I measured a 110

Now my Co% levels really improved.

Co 0.71 I measured a 1.92 at 15 mph
Co 0.58 I measured a 1.82 at 25 mph.. Now that is probably going to improve next smog..

Next smog number 4 with about everything the same maybe a lil more tuning and already figured it's not going to pass with out changing the convertors

Hc 108 I measured a 171 at 15 mph
Hc 83 max I measured a 100

Co%0.71 I measured a 0.45 I passed 15 mph
Co Max 0.58 I measured a 0.52 I passed

I plan to beat my very first smog results when I replace the dual convertors.

I smogged my Malibu a couple weeks ago and I took it to a test only and he said soon something like we wont have test only or a non test only shop can do the testing. Im not to sure what he really met but I never expected they make it harder for us to pass now lower numbers. Well Im jdue Jan. for the Iroc so hopefully they wont have these new numbers in effect yet.

injdinjn

I would bet even a car with 7 miles on it would fail after all these years. Every mile you put on your car will raise the emissions.

As I asked earlier "Anyone have any knowledge of the BAR raising the pass/fail numbers?". I have only witnessed them LOWERING the pass/fail numbers.

Just because it's in the law doesn't mean they will ever do it. The only analysis BAR uses is political pressure to force old cars off the road to increase sales taxes and licensing fees.

Do you work for BAR or just like defending govt oppression.

ringo234

no I do not work for BAR, but I understand what I read. apparently you don't I going to my camaro smogged Thursday and I'll see how that goes.

injdinjn

and the results are?

ringo234

The place I always go to was closed because their dyno was broken I will try again next week when they are expecting it to be repair.

ringo234

I smog by Daughters 93 Honda a couple a weeks ago and passed with no problem, It has 250,000+ miles maybe the CARP is just picking on 3rd Gens.

Mikos_89

A limit to how much they can raise/lower a standard? It might sound like that according to the "letter" of the law perhaps, but in reality they have been constantly lowering the allowable limits since these cars were new. The only reason they're lowering the standards is to get these cars off the road for reasons like Injdinjn previously stated.

Loosen as the cars get older? Man, that would be nice wouldn't it? Or, how about a total exemption after the car reaches a certain age? Heck, even a rolling 20-25 year limit would've been good. IMO, that's what it should've been. A rolling 25 year exemption. That's fair for everyone including car enthusiasts, but nope. They stuck it at '73 and older for the rest of eternity until some hot shot political hack trying to make a name for himself in Sacramento gets to change that as well. They tried several times in the past to do just that, I believe. They want us in newer vehicles, brand new expensive cookie cutter hybrids preferably, where they can collect higher registration fees, insurance premiums, and support big business like the local stealers, ect.

Be sure to post the numbers of your Iroc when you get it smogged next week. I'm very curious. Not sure why your daughter's '93 Honda Accord passed so easily. Maybe smaller engines run cleaner due to their smaller displacement or the standards are more relaxed for them since they're considered more efficient or something. My old 400K mile 22r Toyota PU always passed with flying colors even running 20w-50 oil, but I seemed to always have problems with my 70K original mile bone stock '89 GTA. Not problems with it passing per se, just BS stuff like them tinkering with it for what appeared to be an extended time when smogging it. Hopefully, when I get it on the road next summer, it'll pass without any problems. I'm keeping my fingers tightly crossed.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

That is what Texas has, No more testing required after 25 years.
Vehicles 2 through 24 years old OR upon expiration of the two-year initial inspection sticker.

And only in certain counties (around the bigger cities) is emissions testing required. Only 17 of the 254 counties in the whole state of Texas are required. There rest are just the Safety inspections (headlights, tail lights,seat belts, etc.).

ringo234

Just Curious if you saw Julie's numbers. See tested last month and passed with no problem. I've a new motor since my last test 2yrs ago but even my 200,000 mile 305 passed with no problem.

In case you missed it here is Julie's numbers:

Re: Good luck passing smog

Ditto, not as good as Bill but I'd do OK too.
(Edit I dunno what Bill has but think I have LT4 hot cam in it?)
Tested Oct. 25
I got 36, .09, 218; 50, .09, 195
I didn't do anything special before...
Forum: Southern California Area 11-18-2011, 04:21 PM

injdinjn

Low mileage stock, or nearly stock, motors should pass. And the pass numbers set by BAR should allow a properly maintained vehicle with less than 100K miles pass also, but we all know they want old cars off the road.

I would sure like to know what the factory emission numbers are.

tuske427

I am doing exactly that. Sold my LS1 powered '84 and am now building a '67 Firebird. Of course, with my luck someone will pass a law here revoking the exemption on this car, too.

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/show...=26338&page=16

ringo234

injdinjn

"Quote:
Originally Posted by ringo234 View Post
I going to my camaro smogged Thursday and I'll see how that goes."

and the results are?

OK i had my smog Today and I'm attaching the report.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Awesome...350 RWHP and passing the cali state test.

Congrats!

JulieGTA

About 10 years ago when I got my GTA, (it was completely stock and had 80k miles on it,)
it failed the first time I had it smogged.

I was able to get it passed. If I recall, it needed new cats.

I probably have the report somewhere, since I never throw anything out, but I don't feel like looking for it.
Whenever I come across it I'll post it.

JulieGTA

I did not find my smog test #'s from 2003, only the receipt... Still looking.

I DID find my smog test results from 2005 and 2007. (along with my drivers ed test results. )
I don't have a scanner, but here are the numbers from 2005.
The numbers were the SAME as this years' (2011) they did not lower my numbers "twice in 2 years."

Maybe your smog techs are out to get you???

__________________________%CO2___%02____________HC (PPM)_____
________ TEST____RPM______MEAS___MEAS______MAX___AVE___MEAS
2005:____15 mph___1622______13.5____1.8________108____31_____53
2005:____25 mph___1532______13.4____1.8________83_____20_____48

2011:____15 mph___1630______11.83___3.89_______108____31_____36
2011:____25 mph___1590______12.89___2.33_______83_____20_____50


__________________CO%__________________________NO (PPM)_____
_________MAX_____AVE_____MEAS_________MAX_____AVE_____MEAS
2005:_____0.71_____0.10_____0.06__________767______237_____0361
2005:_____0.58_____0.09_____0.03__________706______199_____0312

2011:_____0.71_____0.10_____0.09__________767______237_____0218
2011:_____0.58_____0.09_____0.09__________706______199_____0194

InsaneIROC

I pass Smog everytime I drive in LA just look up.

micktroup2

Where did you get an LS for $2500??

rock861261

you can get a 6.0 for that all day long... a 5.3 for even cheaper...

I got mine from a guy on ls1tech that had a machines block and a complete engine that he blew a rod through and decided to upgrade to a 6.0 so he sold me the block and blown motor for $100 then I built the rest.

micktroup2

Now THAT was a masterful piece of negotiation. My hat is off to you sir! How hard is that to get approved by the BAR?

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Wow.

You know things are bad when some of the posters on this thread are showing classic symptoms of Stockholm syndrome.

That place is doomed. I am so unbelievably glad to be out of there.

Freedom is a magnificent thing to experience. I highly recommend it.

rock861261

not to bad the ls1 tank has most of the emissions and the rest are on the engine as long as you have all the emissions wired a obd2 sensor and cats in the original place your good.

injdinjn

LOL

Diggler86

Its not just the emissions. I always wanted to say this: "Its because Im black!".

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/25/c...ng-black-cars/

Guess if you want a true black car, buy one now.

Can I get smog credit since my A/C is non-functional?

I do think its a matter of time, before it becomes not impossible but unrealistic for us to pass smog. The only choice will be convert to LS or drop in a $10K+ e-rod. Or cave to their wishes and buy a new car!

It would be at least more fair if they calculated your smog output vs the miles you drive, which would protect to some extent the collector enthusiasts. For example, someone that commutes 2 hours every day in a 2000 Honda probably has more annual pollution that I use for around-town in the TA. And I'm the bad guy??

They will also check somehow to see what your OEM color was, and your % solar reflectivity, lol..

BretD 88GTA

Where are some of you living in So Cal that you have NOx max numbers in the 700's? Or are the test results you're posting from at the beginning of 2011?

I'm trying to get my GTA off non-op and having a heck of time with smog. HC and CO are super low, but my NOx numbers are killing me.

The NOx max I have to meet is 537@15mph and 494@25mph.

I've tested the car twice – once in September and again just last week. Test #1 passed everything except NOx@25mph – blew a 0698.

Prior to test #2, I installed new plugs, a new heated 02 sensor and a new catalytic converter. This time I passed everything except NOx@15mph. Blew a crazy 1164. This is up from a 519 back in Sept.

My smog tech can no longer test the car by shifting the trans manually to keep the RPMs higher. The state called him out on this practice and threatened his license.

Going by the smog numbers and some testing with my AutoXray, I believe my car is running lean. I'm also getting an intermittent Code 44 when I fire the car up after sitting for a few days. I'm suspecting the air diverter may be bad, since crimping the air hose to the driver's side affected the Block Learn and Integrator count.

Pablo

iTrader: (1)

Running lean and having too much timing will raise NOx (both raise combustion temps) if you can bring the timing back a little it might do the trick, if they are putting a timing light on it I think your best bet is to pull it back in the chip. Does the engine have a stock compression ratio?
The other thing is to check and be sure the egr diaphragm is not damaged with a mityvac

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Good stuff, I had one drop 200 on NOX last week by cleaning the EGR solenoid and dropping the timing 3 degrees.

watajob

iTrader: (29)

Unbelievable. What you poor bastards have to go through is absurd. IL only tests OBDII cars, through the ALDL and only in a few counties near Chicago and St. Louis. I'd burn my 'vert and go find something pre-75. I'm all for clean air, especially in a DD but a toy? You guys need like a usage limit. So many miles a year like classic car insurance is set up. Or something.

Mikos_89

Pre-75 is getting to be tough because even the regular grandma type cars have been creeping up in value and anything really nice, like a pre '75 T/A or Formula, is going to cost you an arm and a leg just like a muscle car. In addition, most older cars have that vintage feel to them. Am radios, seats with springs in them, non-overdrive transmissions, no front crumple zones or door impact beams, no A/C, etc. At least with our cars (3rd gens), they're still modern enough to feel like today's cars, but with just a tad more raw edge from the past to be enjoyable. That's why I like them. Don't get me wrong. Sure, I wouldn't mind cruising around in a mint '71 455 H.O. Trans Am , but finding one of those for typical 3rd gen prices is impossible unless it's a rusted out heap with non-original motor/trans in it.

calroc

I've been following this post for awhile, as my '85 "TPI 305" is up for inspection this spring. It seems they do cut a little more slack to the older 3rd gens compared to the newer ones when lowering the maximum standards. The only 30% drop I have seen was between 2000 & 2002, where, using only NO (ppm) for simplicity, my max dropped from 1597 to 1118 (15 mph) & 1397 to 978 (25 mph). Those were still generous numbers compared to the newer TPI's. Then between 2002 & 2004 they dropped another 2% for 15 mph, to 1097 & 5% for 25 mph to 927. They stayed at those number thru my last test in 2010. I'll see where they are this year, and post in 3 months. In addition, they actually do loosen the numbers when the notion strikes them. I got my 2002 4cyl. Tacoma smogged today. All the max numbers had raised 1% since my 2010 test. It's all very ridiculous. The pass numbers on my Tacoma are looser than what some of you guys are reporting for you later third gens. Even the pass numbers on my wifes pzev Camry are looser than my 3.3 V6 Camry.
Think I'll visit some mustang sites to ask if they're under the same scrutiny & to what degree.

watajob

iTrader: (29)

Yeah, there's probably compromise involved here. But, I could rock something a bit "weird". Say a '72 4 door Le Mans with 462 inches of PMD under the hood.

TTA579

In 2 years I can rock Historic plates on the TTA and not worry about smog.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Here is a thread I found on the subject regarding the Historical Plates. Very interesting.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsc...-got-them.html

TTA579

Interesting discussion. Since my TTA isn't a daily driver I don't think I' have issues. Also, check out socalcarculture.com and you'll see there's a car show almost every day in SoCal.

BretD 88GTA

Hmmm, that is very interesting. One more year and my GTA qualifies for historical status. Not to mention classic car insurance. Even better that it's not a daily driver.

Gonna have to research this some more.

BretD 88GTA

Here's an update on my smog repairs.

I ordered a new Air Diverter Valve last week and installed it today. No Code 44 this time when I fired it up. Block Learn and Integrator counts improved. My A/F ratio gauge readings also looked a bit better.

My car also had a heavy exhaust smell prior to the new valve. It smells much better now when idling in the driveway. In fact, all I seem to smell now is possibly the Sea Foam I added to the tank last week. All this seems to indicate the diverter was bad and causing my car to run lean.

As an extra step, I checked the timing and found it was running close to 8° BTDC. I dialed it down to the factory 6° and then went ahead and disconnected the battery to clear the computer.

One last check with the AutoXray and the Block Learn and Integrator were reacting nicely. BL is 160 at idle and a rap of the throttle drops it to 128. Before, it would go from 160 to only 150.

If the smog shop I use is open on Monday, I might run the car in for another go.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

84, so my car is 28 yrs old, weeee.Wonder if this will work for me.Thread is almost 10 yrs old.My reg is due in Feb.I may pay DMV a visit.

My fear, What will insurance cost? Probably more? Accident & your/others ins determines you were not driving under the HV requirements.Then who pays?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Okay, went by the Test Only Smog Station today and got the car smogged. Here are the results. All smog equipment is there and fully functional.

84 1LE

iTrader: (9)

Damn 0.00 CO, how you acheive that?

ringo234

Are sure that wasn't a Prius. Congrats on passing with well above 400 rwhp.

Blue 87 IROC-Z

you guys gotta leave the left coast and get on the right coast NY went from a smog test to a visual inspection last year for everything older than 1996 and it didn't hurt to be a liscenced nys inspector before than as i could get almost any vehicle to pass while we still had the dyno emissions

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I think the credit for the low emission numbers have to go to Kevin(tuner) and Don(builder) Lorentzen.

Diggler86

Not sure I want to argue this one with the judge:


4463. (a) A person who, with intent to prejudice, damage, or
defraud, commits any of the following acts is guilty of a felony and
upon conviction thereof shall be punished by imprisonment in the
state prison for 16 months or two or three years, or by imprisonment
in a county jail for not more than one year:
(1) Alters, forges, counterfeits, or falsifies a certificate of
ownership, registration card, certificate, license, license plate,
device issued pursuant to Section 4853, special plate, or permit
provided for by this code or a comparable certificate of ownership,
registration card, certificate, license, license plate, device
comparable to that issued pursuant to Section 4853, special plate, or
permit provided for by any foreign jurisdiction, or alters, forges,
counterfeits, or falsifies the document, device, or plate with intent
to represent it as issued by the department, or alters, forges,
counterfeits, or falsifies with fraudulent intent an endorsement of
transfer on a certificate of ownership or other document evidencing
ownership, or with fraudulent intent displays or causes or permits to
be displayed or have in his or her possession a blank, incomplete,
canceled, suspended, revoked, altered, forged, counterfeit, or false
certificate of ownership, registration card, certificate, license,
license plate, device issued pursuant to Section 4853, special plate,
or permit.

TTA579

That law covers counterfeit plates, registrations and documents of ownership. (i.e. plates and documents not produced by the DMV) In layman's terms, it says you can't fake your own title, plates, and registration. If you have plates and registration from the DMV, this law does not apply.

Properly fill out Reg17a subsection E and you're good. Consequences of operating the vehicle as a daily driver would be similar to that of driving with a non-current registration. That is, if you don't have a good story cooked up. (I'm headed to the mechanic/carshow/club meet/museum...)

I think I mentioned there is a car show SOMEWHERE in LA/OC almost every day. (Tuesdays are rare)

RWB____s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sukF...ure=plpp_video

lets see Modot inspection requirments

Hmmmm,
windshield wipers; check
tires; check
lights; check
brakes; check
mufflers; check
seat belts; check
turn signals; check
hazard flashers; check
wheelie bars; check
parachute; check
your good to go, that will be $12. see you in 2 years and good hunting at the races!