formul8!!

I installed the Kenney Browns for a few reasons:

1) They are light. The shipped package only weighed 15lbs.

2) KB is very high quality. It is expensive, but you get what you pay for. The welds are almost perfect.

3) Design. The rear cradle for the LCA mount on the frame is very strong. The cradle also has a section that welds to the body next to the LCA mount for more strength.

4) Tubular throughout. Even the rocker to trans-tunnel brace was tubular and everything was zinc washed for corrosion resistance.

LI Tommy

I don't have any SFCs yet so I won't vote.

Anyway, I will be getting a set in the next few days and liked the idea of the Spohn/Alston combo. The question I have was asked already but wasn't answered. Would it be better to install the Alston or Spohn SFCs first? I think I will do the Alstons then the Spohns. Any suggestions?

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

To me, it looks like installing the Alstons first would make more sense. You really wont know where they weld to along the front subframe and that is where they would interfere. Then when you install the Sphons you can adjust the positioning to either fit around the Alstons or maybe even right to them?

foney_email

Just got my alstons in today. They are so freakin huge! They are so tough and ridgid looking. I did not figure that they would be that bulky.

I really like them! Pretty soon I am putting them in and I'll let you all know how it goes.

I am just bolting them in right now, and I will weld them when I find someone I trust.

Now I have all my parts, and I am just waiting to install it all...

War_Eagle

rodrigo & f-crazy, where did you get your Southside Machine sfc's? I am certain these are what I am going with after reading several articles on all the different manufacturers. A link or web site would be great, thanks.......

ausrs

i have ssn style sfc,s
wouldnt change them for any other style

devianb

The 15lbs weight of the Kenny Browns are very appealing to me. Since I have a V6 and primarily drive on the street, I think the Kenny Browns may be a lil' too much for my car.


Spohn ones look decent. I think my next mod will be SFC. I can see places on my car where the body has flexed due lack of support. Ahhh, unibodies, lol.

87kevroc

War_Eagle,

Summit sells South Side Machine SFC's.

chainbearer

as soon as I decide to put some sfc's on my car, I will be going with SSM's I know people who work there and it is about 2 minutes from my house. If anyone wants info on SSM, I will try to get any info I can.

408TA

according to summit catalog you cant just buy the sub connectors, the whole kit is $489!!!!!!!!!!!!! ya it comes with alot but i cant squeaze out 500 bills.unfortunatly i went with comp eng., weld ins. i dont recomend these because they require fabrication work. and for $85 i could have gone to the metal yard and got square tubing for $40 tops. i wish summit or jegs or even SSM for that matter would sell just the connectors.

War_Eagle

It looks like summit isn't carrying SouthSide Machine sfc's for our cars anymore. I went to there web site and it is showing that they don't carry them now.... And SouthSide Machine's web site is no longer there... Anyone have any other info on them?.........

chainbearer

well, they have changed their name to ssm lift bars or something like that. the owner left the company to his son to run for a few months while he went on vacation and it went to sh*t.

To make a long story short, the owner is coming back to get everything back together and I think they are only using jegs to distribute their products now. I may be wrong on that, but I will ask next time I go over there.

N.W. T/A

I found a place that will Sell the Kenny Brown SFC for $200 + shipping..... email me and i'll give you the #.........

70formula

Threw on my Alston SFC's today, and I must say that the car does feel tighter. I really noticed it on bumps in the road. It feels as if the shocks are doing alot more now.

Unfortunately, it was the only highlight of the day since they also stole my Alpine CD/MP3 out of my car when I parked it for about an hour by my job.

foney_email

how did you install them 70formula? Did you just bolt them in for now, or did you have some one tack them in for you?

70formula

foney-email - I brought my car over to a friend who works in a muffler shop. He threw it up on the lift and drilled the appropriate holes, bolted them up and then he welded them onto the subframes. He had to disconnect and lower the exhaust on the passenger side as well as move my gas lines around. Wasn't too bad at all. I can't imagine doing the job witout a lift though.

foney_email

What do you think about using ramps to drill the holes? Do any of you guys with alstons have any install stories for me?

Has anyone ever put their subframes on wrong? Well obviously someone has, but what was the result?

89IRO

Where can I buy the Alstons from? I know nothing about them since I have been set on the Spohns for so long. But I feel I should research all my options but I can't find who sells them. -89IRO

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Lon has them at TDS. Click the link at the top of the page.


Ed

Justins86bird

I almost got the KBs, but they raised the price a day before I was going to place my order, so I decided to wait till spohn got his tubular ones ready. I haven't installed my Spohn SFCs yet, but they look to be one of the best overall designs. IMHO, Spohn, KB and SSM's are all very good.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Yes of course you can drive the car up onto ramps then support the rear with jack stands to install them at home. Just don't try installing them with an AC stick welder.

Lon

89IRO

So what kind or a welder do I need to ask the exhaust shop they have? TIG or MIG? -89IRO

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

MIG. I suppose you could use either but MIG is easier.

Lon

89IRO

OK, are these two kinds of welds the only acceptable ones to use for installing SFCs? What do I need to stay away from besides an AC stick welder? -89IRO

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

See my post on a Spohn SFC install in this forum. I used a Lincoln Pro Mig 135 115V wire welder and it did the job great. I highly recommend this type of welder for installing SFCs...small, easy to move around, and not too expensive to buy if you need to. Plus they use basic house current so you don't need a 230V outlet to run it. I borrowed mine from a friend.


Ed

Irocster

When I get my spohns installed, should they be installed on a drive-on style lift or on a lift that takes the weight off of the wheels? Most muffler shops have the drive-on (where the weight is on the wheels still) so....what do you think? Thanks.

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

Weight on the wheels... you are sure the car is sitting how it is supposed to. This way the car wont have too much extra twist on it while you are driving.

Ratchet

I dissagree. IMHO the car should be supported by the front and rear subframes and shims placed under the supports so that the car is perfectly level front to back and side to side. I Measured mine for level at the rocker pannels. By doing this you are sure that the chasis is square and not flexed out of position due to any number of things that could make the car twist when it is sitting on the wheels. Some of the things that will put the car out of square when sitting on the tires are: unequal tire pressures. Worn Ball joints, bad control arm bushing front or rear, broken spring or sagging spring at any corner of the car. If you weld in subframe connectors while the car is sitting on the tires with anyone of these inconsistencies in place then you will be welding them in while the car is twisted hence permanent twist.

Just My Opinion not necessarily a fact.

PS. I like the 15$ subframe connectors the best.

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

I firmly DISAGREE with that, one gabillion percent. Please don't take this as a flame.

The main reason is this... when I had my t-top car and supported the front by jackstands only, the body flexed so much that the the doors were no longer in alignment. I could tell by looking at the top of the glass, where the glass met the t-top gaskets. Both windows were pushed up into the gasket. When I closed the door with the window in the up position the rubber would get stuck on the inside of the glass at the very rear of the window.

Same story now that I have a hard top car, just not as apparent. The passenger door would close nicely even when it needs to be adjusted up a little. I don't have any pics of this, but right now I really wish I did. I'm not doing it to my car again.

Irocster

Jees, so what should I do? I just ordered my spohns, don't know when they will be here though. I've already got a date with the muffler guy and he wants $25 for each side. Now I don't know if he will jack up the price if I have the car supported on the sub-frames. I don't even know if he has that kind of lift, since most muffler shops have a drive-on. If this is the way to do it, I don't mind spending a little extra money....cause placing these shims in and making sure it is dead-level will take a lot more time, and the lift itself may not even be level. Anyone else out there with opinions? Thanks.

slowTA

iTrader: (1)

Ask Spohn and see what he has to say.

Ratchet

As I said in the earlier post Just My opinion.

Everyone else always says you have to install subframe connectors with the car sitting on the tires like on a drive on ramp. You are probably safest to go with the flow and do it the way everyone else does.

Aviator857

Well to be honest the best way would be put the car on a lazer frame machine and hook it up and put the car dead center of the tolarances and then weld them in....... but I don't think anyone is really going to do this. Put the car on a ramp lift and then measure points and do some leaveling but don't take all the weight off the tires. This should put the car close to specs and then weld them in. Just check you windows, body panel alignment, and fitment of the frames, rember they are molded to fit in there real tight, so if one side is wanting to have a big gap, then you probably don't have the car right. The frames are for length support, you need atleast a 3 pt roll cage to get rid of all the twisting. But unless you are raceing or have a big engine you don't really need that much strength.

Like said before this is just my opinion, check with them and see what they say, and ask some body shops. I know there is a GM auto collision guy on these boards maybe he could shed some light on the subject.

Irocster

Good idea, I should just ask the expert....Spohn!!!

BretD 88GTA

I'm going to have to disagree with this concept as well. All the inconsistentcies you list should only affect the suspension and not create any twisting of the frame as long as the car is sitting on a level surface such as a drive-on type lift.

Also, measuring for level at the rocker panels is no guarantee the car is indeed true and level. Keep in mind there are "manufacturing tolerances" and one rocker panel could potntially be up to 1/4" off from the other. Check all the gaps on your car - hood, doors, hatch and see how they close they are. You're gonna find discrepancies.

James Montigny

I was very happy with my BMR equipment
http://www.bmrfabrication.com/

Did my whole 95 and plan to do the same with my 92

Aviator857

I don't see the 3ed gen subframe connectors, do they make them for our cars. I say the 4th gen ones, they looked good. Could post a direct link to the page if I am wrong, and they do make them.

James Montigny

He has 3rd gen for TPI. I am waiting to see if he will produce some TBI/Carb units for us.

http://www.bmrfabrication.com/F3-chassis.htm

Damien00677

How much is it generally to have them installed?
Where do people generally get them installed?
How long does it usually take?

Things I want to know, and would probably be good for any kind of faq/tech article

James Montigny

How much is it generally to have them installed?
$25-75 (1/2 hour labor)

Where do people generally get them installed?
Any ol muffler shop or garage with a torch and lift

How long does it usually take?
30 min or so, very straitforward project.

Aviator857

Alstons

I bought a set from TDS. I installed them Saterday. I still have my interior out of my car (redoing it, didn't take it out for the welding) so I am not going to comment about noise yet. But the steering improvements are great. The car is more responsive in the curves. I have to turn the wheel less than before. The car launches much better, the weight shift is much more constant. The car dives alot less under heavy brakeing. I didn't expect this much improvement. I can also do weight shifts much better in turns. The car feels more stable in curves, and the tires squeal less when pushing the car through turns. All in all I like them. They install great, have minimal ground clearence problems. Infact the only thing I have scraped on was backing off the lift, but the lift is a big one for trucks (toe/dump/delevery trucks) So the angle is a little steap for the bird. After the interior is back in my car I will let everyone know about noise.

chev496

I am going to be going Comp. Engineering weld in's for 86$, and i will tell ya how they do. I am running a 496 big block and the guy who has seen alot of these built said any weld in ones will hold up the best. If you want more metal under there, just make your own from that point on. I think i will listen to him since he is building half of my engine. I will let ya know how hte chassis flex's when i get it done.

tj78_

i say someone gets about 3 or 4 crappy cars from the junk yard and puts a different subframe connector on each, then the can twist the heck out of them and see which have certain characteristics.. most rigid, most elastic etc....

it would be a great advertisement for your product! hint hint! especially if you feel your design is truly the best!

1bad91Z

iTrader: (1)

Just wanted to add some info......................

I have a T-56 six-speed and Hooker 2210 Longtube headers.

The Hotchkis sub-frames are the only ones that I found that will clear the Mufflex Y-pipe and T-56 x-member.


Just FYI.

foney_email

I have an update. It has been a long time since I recieved my sfc's, but I am now trying to instal them. The alstons do not fit my car because exhaust clearance issues. My 3 inch pipe is too big, because the sfc is designed to hug the floor pan and go right above the pipe. My pipe is already hugging the floor pan so now I have to do exhaust modifications. The entire instal will still only cost $100 though.

Not too bad, but I wanted to let you guys know that alston are apparently not guarenteed to fit all exhaust.

TheGreatJ

Yeah but TDS has a GP goin for them so the price makes up for it.

foney_email

Before installing my sfc's, a buddy of mine suggests that I should instal everything else that I want on the car first. He used to make his own sfc's for his old camaros, and he said we need to instal any and all suspention parts first, balance the tire pressure and make sure that everything is perfect.

This is not the simple installation that I was hoping for...

just a note to let you guys know where I stand on this...

Camaro_nut

Me too! And love 'em! I've had them for over a year now.
No complaints!

Damien00677

where do those jegster ones go? kind of looks like they'd go under the door or something.

Camaro_nut

The Jegster SFCs for 82-92 Camaros goes the same place as any
other SFCs. The rear part braces around the lower control arm
bracket, then bolt through the existing hole for the front part of
the lower control arms. Another hole is also above that, but
you need to drill a hole through the LCA bracket to install the
bolts.

The front parts need to be bolted through the floor pans.
Need to drill four holes for each side. The driver's side is the
easiest to do ( no exhaust in the way). When installed, you
can't even see them, unless you look right under the car.
They look like a real frame, like it's part of the car. They
are supposedly 60% stronger than the others. I don't know
for sure about that, but they are heavy and thick! I think about
20 lbs. each.

I would recommend to use ARP bolts with lock washers and
thread locker for extra strength and less chance of getting loose
or having any bolt holes widening due to engine power and
chassis flex over time. I however, just used the existing
hardware kit, which came with lock washers. They are holding up
just fine after a year, but I only have a V6 "dog" motor right
now, so the chassis has not been pushed to it's limits yet.

I will eventually have someone weld long beads every 6" apart
for added durability. I would recommend that too!